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PokeAwesome94
June 11th, 2012, 04:30 AM
*Forgot to put a neutral option there, like "The anime is not getting better nor worse". I would have to start a new thread then and I'm not going to do that, so you'll just have to post it in the thread. Sorry!*


These are my personal thoughts:


I no longer care about the anime, because it's dead to me. It died when they removed Brock from the anime and gave Ash a failed experimental eye surgery. Removing Misty wasn't a bright idea either. I also heard that Team Rocket got a personality change. It's all going downhill from here. The show should have ended after season 13 while it still had some dignity.

They should replace it with an anime based on the Pokémon Adventures manga. That's hardcore, unlike the current anime where Ash turns into a n00b whenever he steps into a new region and he never ages either. They could do so that one region = 1 year in the anime. Then he'd been 15 by now and the aging problem would be solved.


The older the season, the better:

Season 1 - the best | Misty FTW
Season 2-5 - very good | Misty FTW
Season 6 - good, but a little nooby | May is kinda cool, can't replace Misty though, but still cool
Season 7-9 - good
Season 10-11 - kinda watchable sometimes, very nooby | Dawn is kinda ok, but can't be compared with Misty or May.
Season 12 - kinda watchable
Season 13 - haven't watched
Season 14+ - WTF?! No Brock and Ash has undergone special eye surgery?! Aint even going to bother watching.

Zeruis
June 15th, 2012, 09:47 PM
The truth is that I've left the Anime altogether. I felt like it hit it's peak at the advanced generation season, in Hoenn. After that, Diamond and Pearl got boring (only the gym battles were worth watching) and Black and White... was not appealing at all. After the Hoenn series, the Anime grew worse progressively.

Mortalis
June 15th, 2012, 10:14 PM
I find the newer episodes to be poorly written. They just throw in some new Pokemon cameos every episode and expect a hearty reaction. They make up these random, elaborate schemes that they believe are witty and intelligent, but are just narrow story lines. It's unfortunate, but I'm no longer a fan of the anime.

As much as I love Ash, since he's a classic character, he needs to either actually age, be replaced by a new hero, or they should remake the anime like stated above. I'd love to see the Pokemon Adventures manga, or something similar.

TheFattestSnorlax
June 16th, 2012, 04:33 AM
If anyone talks about the old and the new anime, then I would say it would be the same to me. Hasn't much at all changed but I think there still needs some more good action in it.

Gonshiro
June 16th, 2012, 03:39 PM
I never really got into the anime too much, but I did watch it on occasion up until the Orange Islands. Around that time I practically stopped watching, but I have read a lot of complaints from fans about this.

Anyways, I read this article and thought it fit, so I hope it's allowed.

Warning - Don't let this ruin your childhood.

http://forums.soompi.com/discussion/261135/pokemon-interpretation/

PlatinumDude
June 16th, 2012, 04:36 PM
I'm neutral to all this. If the option was on there, I would've voted on that. I don't think one Pokemon season is better than the other (they're the same storyline, basically with a few twists on their own), though I did have a few issues with the Johto saga (because of too many fillers).

crystalzapdos
June 16th, 2012, 06:07 PM
No, what really happened here is you outgrew the anime. The fact that you complain about Ash never aging is irrelevant. Does Bart Simpson age? Does Spongebob age? No. Its TV. Its fairly common for a certain character to not age in a TV show. Ash is an idiot at the beginning of every region because the beginning of a region is when there are new games, thus many new viewers.

Here's the truth: The anime has always been bad. Its a 30-minute advertisement for the games. You choose to believe that Misty and Brock were great because that's what you remember from your childhood, back when you didn't care if the anime was bad.

Bluelatios*
June 16th, 2012, 08:22 PM
The anime is really only as good as you perceive it. If you thought it was good, then it was good for you and vice versa. In that sense, nobody can truly say the anime was bad for everyone.

chella182
June 17th, 2012, 10:43 AM
I'm personally quite enjoying the Rival Destinies series so far, granted I still dislike Iris intensely, but I like Cilan and... I'm not really sure. It's better than some of the Diamond & Pearl episodes, anyway D: some of those got seriously boring.

No, what really happened here is you outgrew the anime. The fact that you complain about Ash never aging is irrelevant. Does Bart Simpson age? Does Spongebob age? No. Its TV. Its fairly common for a certain character to not age in a TV show. Ash is an idiot at the beginning of every region because the beginning of a region is when there are new games, thus many new viewers.

Here's the truth: The anime has always been bad. Its a 30-minute advertisement for the games. You choose to believe that Misty and Brock were great because that's what you remember from your childhood, back when you didn't care if the anime was bad.
I agree with this. I mean, if asked, I probably would say I preferred the episodes with Misty and Brock in them (and the Orange Islands ones, too), but it probably is just because that's just what I remember from my childhood. If someone my age was to start watching the original series now, they may well think it's terrible just like lots of long-term Pokéfans think the new ones are terrible.

So, in conclusion, I don't really think the anime is getting worse or better. I think it's probably staying just about the same. Which may be a point for criticism, but not necessarily here.

Kirbychu
June 18th, 2012, 12:21 AM
The older episodes have certain aspects going for them such as originality, comedy, and of course nostalgia. I felt that things really took a turn for the worse with Johto. That's when the anime became rather monotonous with loads of filler and just plain uninteresting episodes. In my eyes the anime has pretty much remained the same ever since quality-wise, but it still heats up during events such as tournaments, contests (If you're into that sort of thing), etc. The Battle Frontier is probably my favorite arc yet. Ash, his Pokemon, and his foes felt powerful, the battles were great, and the show moved at a rather fast pace.

However, the anime has vastly improved in certain areas over time. Animation is a given (Even though it's still pretty "meh"), but I personally think that battles are way better choreographed nowadays and just more interesting. Compare the Sinnoh League to any league yet and you'd probably see what I mean. Sinnoh and Unova have also granted us a lot more reoccurring rivals as well. Team Rocket isn't in every single episode anymore either.

I'd have to say that the old Kanto adventures were a bit better (Mainly due to originality), but the newer episodes trump them in certain qualities. I sort of miss the comedy in the older episodes.

Bluelatios*
June 18th, 2012, 12:07 PM
What the producers don't seem to get nowadays is that they need a balance. They need to of course, be pushing forward with new innovations, but they also need to take care to build fan loyalty and have something for everyone. That might mean reintroducing previous Pokemon and/or humans every now and then for a good period of time, or it might mean restoring the slapstick comedy many of us grew up with. Hopefully they are figuring that out with the next season and maybe they'll have it mastered in generation 6, who knows.

WildEagle
June 18th, 2012, 04:46 PM
*Forgot to put a neutral option there, like "The anime is not getting better nor worse". I would have to start a new thread then and I'm not going to do that, so you'll just have to post it in the thread. Sorry!*


These are my personal thoughts:


I no longer care about the anime, because it's dead to me. It died when they removed Brock from the anime and gave Ash a failed experimental eye surgery. Removing Misty wasn't a bright idea either. I also heard that Team Rocket got a personality change. It's all going downhill from here. The show should have ended after season 13 while it still had some dignity.

They should replace it with an anime based on the Pokémon Adventures manga. That's hardcore, unlike the current anime where Ash turns into a n00b whenever he steps into a new region and he never ages either. They could do so that one region = 1 year in the anime. Then he'd been 15 by now and the aging problem would be solved.


The older the season, the better:

Season 1 - the best | Misty FTW
Season 2-5 - very good | Misty FTW
Season 6 - good, but a little nooby | May is kinda cool, can't replace Misty though, but still cool
Season 7-9 - good
Season 10-11 - kinda watchable sometimes, very nooby | Dawn is kinda ok, but can't be compared with Misty or May.
Season 12 - kinda watchable
Season 13 - haven't watched
Season 14+ - WTF?! No Brock and Ash has undergone special eye surgery?! Aint even going to bother watching.

Kanto -The first season was pathetic in terms of Gym battles. Ash's badges was like handed to him. The only thing the first season had was its comedy. The battles are barely memorable. Team rocket barely got screen time beside the TR trio.

Johto - Johto pokemons were overshadowed by Kanto starters near the beginning. Then Pikachu hog the gym battles, and in the league? Charizard was the main star. Johto pokemons get shafted while Kanto pokemons dominates two leagues. The matches was far better than kanto though. Vs Gary and vs Harrison are up there for Ashes top matches.

Hoenn - Better pokemon handling, hoenn was given screen time and their own league. The BF comes along to show off Ash's reserve. Hoenn had nice 6 on 6 battles. The flaws was Hoenn turned stale because it was the same 6 pokemon over and over again. This was fix in Battle Frontier. Max was annoying. They screwed up Magma vs Aqua. Only 2 parts? Then there's Lance hogging screen time from Magma and Aqua -.-"

Sinnoh - Kinda watchable? Sinnoh trashes Kanto in every way besides the funny moments. Gym Battle, Character development, Rival Development, Pokemon Development. THE POKEMON LEAGUE.

Gym battle was top notch - Ash's pokemon was able to shine during the gym battles and show off their strength.
Character development - they finally developed Ash into a trainer that's used everything that he learn through his journey and his rivals. Ash started using the field to his advantage & his switches his pokemon for type advantage.
Pokemon development - Infernape bar none is Ash most develop pokemon. Yes more than Charizard. That monkey had a back story that ties Ash to his rival. The monkey even went super saiyan against Paul. Torterra had a good development, till they focused on the monkey and same with the rest of the of his Pokemon.
Rival development - It's arguable but Paul is Ash greatest rival. The two is like opposite and it was exploited and gave us one hell of a rivalry. From the battle at Lake Acuity where Ash got trash into Infernape evolving in front of Paul into one of Ash's greatest league match. Gary might be his childhood rival but it was so under develop that one league match kinda made us wanting for more. Paul and Ash rivalry had a great start and great ending.
Pokemon League - Old pokemons coming back for nostalgia fans? Check. Cyndiquil evolve? Check. 6 on 6 with Paul? Check. Gible starred a battle? Check. The only thing that was horrible was Takuto pulling Latios out of his butt.
Evil Team - OMG you mean Team Galactic didn't get shafted like TR did during Kanto?

Yes, Sinnoh saga does have flaws, the comedy was turn down. The brock flirting with girls was stale. Dawn and Brock barely had interaction beside Dawn asking Brock about certain pokemons. Brock was so stale, you barely notice him unless he speaks. Ash's other pokemons got shafted near the league for Infernape. The league was good until Takuto sent out Latios LOL. What does he was next? Mewtwo? TORTERRA NEEDS JUSTICE. JUSTICE.

Unova - Then it's your lost. Your missing out on great stuff BW series has been giving us. They gave us vintage Ash that every Nostalgia fans want, he turn his hat around, he reverted back to "kanto ash" in terms of battling. "OH NOEZ no Brock, series teh suckzorr". Brock was so stale during Sinnoh that it was the time to retire him. The gym battle has been on par with Hoenn gym battles. Ash finally ROTATING his Pokemons. Hell this series broke Hoenn and Sinnoh traditions and gave Ash more than 6 Pokemons just like nostalgia fans wanted "CATCH MORE POKEMONZ"

While the series is good, it is flawed. Ash reverted back to his kanto/Johto self where he barely know crap. Ash's character development and growth during Sinnoh sage was thrown into the window. Trip is a copy of Paul LOL. Pikachu losing to Snivy. That cannot be justified. Even without electric attack, Pikachu has Iron Tail and Quick Attack to destroy a Snivy from Prof. Juniper's lab. Pikachu just tie with Latios then get complete raped by Snivy.

TL;DR
Take off your nostalgia glasses. Kanto can barely hold Sinnoh Saga's shorts in term of Gym battles, Pokemon League, and Rival Development. Kanto ranks about everything when in terms of comedy and Ash's bloopers. Kanto is the worst series in terms of battling (gym and the league) Kanto barely gave us any memorable besides Magmar vs Charizard & Kingler LOLstomping this girl's team.

Mew~
June 19th, 2012, 03:26 PM
This thread isn't anything new to me, we've seen opinions like these pass, but generally they're always the same. Your general argument is that,- well you don't even bring up much of an argument, just some comments on that you miss Misty and others can't replace her. 'Kinda Watchable' isn't an argument, it doesn't help your view at all, as it doesn't say what specifically is 'watchable.'

Honestly we've been stuck with the same formula for over 10 years now, I don't see how your argument from 'after season 13' is valid at all, it sounds like you've not even taken a proper look at Black and White and have formed opinions over stuff you've heard about it. First of all, Team Rocket have not received any personality change, they did however change costumes for a short period of time but arguably were just given more responsibly and took it seriously, which isn't out of character for them at all. Plus where is this stuff about 'eye surgery' coming from?

PokeAwesome94
June 20th, 2012, 01:43 AM
where is this stuff about 'eye surgery' coming from?


http://chzpokememes.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/pokmon-then-versus-now.jpg

See any difference? Either eye surgery/transplantation or contact lenses, but I've never seen Ash take off or put on contact lenses so it's probably the first alternative.

Mew~
June 20th, 2012, 07:44 AM
See any difference? Either eye surgery/transplantation or contact lenses, but I've never seen Ash take off or put on contact lenses so it's probably the first alternative.
It's just a simple animation change, if you've taken a look at at Japanese Opening, Symphonic Medley, there's a close up of Ash's face and his brown eyes. I don't see how an animation change supports your argument, in my opinion it just makes it more appealing to watch. :\

PokeAwesome94
June 25th, 2012, 03:01 PM
It's just a simple animation change, if you've taken a look at at Japanese Opening, Symphonic Medley, there's a close up of Ash's face and his brown eyes. I don't see how an animation change supports your argument, in my opinion it just makes it more appealing to watch. :\

When Michael Jackson went from afro-american to caucasian everything just got weirder, the same goes for Ash's eye transplantation. This might not be much of an argument, but it's not the same Ash as before. The old Ash is dead now and we're stuck with the "plastic makes perfect" version.

voicerocker
June 25th, 2012, 09:59 PM
When Michael Jackson went from afro-american to caucasian everything just got weirder, the same goes for Ash's eye transplantation. This might not be much of an argument, but it's not the same Ash as before. The old Ash is dead now and we're stuck with the "plastic makes perfect" version.

You're comparing real life to a change in a cartoon? The animation quality has greatly improved, even DBZ had some improvement throughout the series. I fail to see how them giving Ash more detailed eyes to allow him to fit in with the current cast is a bad thing.

The anime is no better or worse than it ever was. The only thing that makes the earlier seasons seem better is because they came first. If Best Wishes came first, you would think Kanto sucks.

I think it's important to remember that Pokemon is a video game franchise first. All the anime is pretty much for is for kids to see their favorite Pokemon animated so they'll want to buy the toys, cards and games. (That's how I got into the games and started collecting the figures and trading cards back in the day.)

Pokemon_Hero
June 25th, 2012, 11:42 PM
What is actually so good in the first seasons? the top 16? Top 8 in Johto? In sinnoh and Isshu he is much better. top 4, and i belive that top 2 in the Isshu league.


Misty? who cares. She should stay in her gym forever and never return.

Loriania
June 26th, 2012, 02:24 AM
I've mostly seen the older episodes.

Lugia_Da_Boss
June 26th, 2012, 05:31 AM
I never liked the anime but I prefer his voice now to what it sounded like back in the first few episodes, that voice was ****.

-snip-
I can never look at Pokémon the same way again. It all made sense to me(except for the last bit where he talks about Oak putting him off life-support).

Cevin
June 26th, 2012, 10:24 PM
I've encountered that anyone who watched pokemon always seems to like the show at the point that they started watching it. For instance, i grew up watching the first five seasons seeing ash and misty have some kinda thing and then she just leaves. Well, of course now that the main characters have changed its feels like its lost something and is going downhill.

Even though Ash only placed top 16 in the first season and top eight in the 5th, it still seemed as though the story was making progression, imo.

Now new characters isnt so bad but then came the voice changing. There was a voice change in the first season, but it wasnt as dramatic. Picture watching a show for 9 years with the same voices and all-of-a-sudden youre in the middle of the 9th season and the main character seems to have undergone reverse puberty....

DBZ fan
June 27th, 2012, 05:37 AM
Obviously it did in some aspects,thought it got worse in others.
In positive sense anime over the years improved in characters getting more development.
Anime wasn't anymore centered mostly around Ash as only central character with others being allowed to have their stories fleshed out more. Battling improved a lot since early days with more details and strategy being implemented into it. In Kanto aside from few battles(like Charizard (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Charizard_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) vs Blain Magmar (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Magmar_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29))most battles in reality were bad.

Group pokemon started to receive more screen time with their characters being fleshed out more. Aside from Ash Kanto starters, Misty Psyduck (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Psyduck_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) and Togepi (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Togepi_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) almost none of twerps pokemon including TR had their personalities exploited out.

Pacing also got better, and i don't even need to mention how rivalries were handled by miles better compared to Kanto days when Gary appeared in few and far between episodes. Although it wasnt until Sinnoh that writers started treating rivals right(Paul comes to mind).

However it also declined in some aspects since Kanto days, with older seasons having more humor, better dynamic within cast and many things which today would never manage to pass under radar like it was case before. Such exaggerated style and wacky plots original series used to had also resulted in this era of pokemon being known for highest number of banned episodes to this date. Simply because some scenes weren't suitable for kids TV show.
Chemistry and interaction between original trio was also probably most memorable group and one with most synergy. They really felt like genuine group of friends fulfilling each other nicely contributing to fčlamboyant and comic interaction.

Back than, especially in Kanto anime was initially intended to be like family show written for all kind of generations according to Takeshi (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Brock) Shudo blogs. However since he wasn't allowed to do that, having to adjust to future games and marketing that style of writing started to gradually decline, just to end up disappearing completely somewhere around Hoenn.

What i liked about Kanto,Oi and to lesser extent Johto is also fact how back than writers stick in much smaller amount to games straying away from it quite a few times including less game characters, with more anime exclusive things being incorporated. Nowadays we don't get anymore such unique mini arcs like it was case with Sabrina, St.Anne, Gengar (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Gengar_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) and Alakazam (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Alakazam_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) bringing in danger whole world, having something like Whirl Islands arc which felt like mini season put in one bigger . Or Giovani gym which involved Mewtwo (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mewtwo_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) following movie canon closely. We don't get whole anime only seasons like it was case with Orange Islands having unique portrayal of gyms and place in which story was set in.

Nowadays pokemon handles main characters better, storyline is more consistent and battles, villains and treatment of pokemon themselves have better writing behind it. However OS had more comedy, better dialogue and dynamic, and wacky and out of place plots with writers seeming to have much more liberty back in day, to spread wings of creativity and use their own imagination.


Misty? who cares. She should stay in her gym forever and never return.

Apparently many fans do care, wanting her back to main cast. Personally i wouldn't mind her return. She was fun character and you could tell there was left untapped potential to do more. Such as her goal of becoming water pokemon master which can't be achieved at gym, providing plausible directions to take it forward and do follow up(benchmarks similar to Whirl Cup which measure someone growth, becoming E4 water trainer etc are some of possibilities).

dracoflare
June 27th, 2012, 07:03 AM
^That is a perfect and neutral summary of how Pokemon Anime changed over the ages. Every bit of it is true.

Honestly the writers could do more, but their hands are tied down by marketing issues. It is frustrating but let's all pray to god and hope that this changes.

Charicific
June 27th, 2012, 07:55 AM
I......I don't think it dramatically changed, nor do I believe it became worse.
I started watching the series from the very beginning of Kanto and ending up till now, Unova. I see noway how the series became "worse", in fact, you people said it yourself! Didn't I read many times here that the series is "repetitive" and ash becoming a noob all over again? So it DOES contradict the idea of the series changing to the worst. It is still the same to me, I do find every separate series different with slight topping and changes.... good changes actually.

It also depend on what aspect do you see it. If you're telling me the series has gone downhill because some characters left, then this could be a terribly wrong argument. Try to criticize every series in aspects that gives Pokemon its reputation. For example....Battles or maybe Pokemons themselves. Maybe also look at aspects that make up an anime in the first place. Characters and their development? Plot (ehh..I shouldn't say that)?

In my opinion, when I always take these elements, all I can say is that the anime basically didn't sway a lot. It's actually doing well since its refreshing. It can be better of course, but not a big deal really. My primary focus is not the Pokemon Anime only, it is the Franchise itself.

Poke-roogs
June 27th, 2012, 12:29 PM
Whilst Kanto certainly has a nostalgic flair to it, it certainly isn't any better than later seasons (barring the incredible theme song). Animation errors were prevalent, and battles were really dynamic (nothing will really ever top Charizard vs Magmar though). Sinnoh and Unova have greatly improved in terms of battles. They're a lot more strategic and, for the most part, better animated.

Paul was also a better rival than Gary could ever hope to be. He was completely antithetical to Ash, and that made a compelling arc. Paul's abuse of Chimchar, and then having Ash use that and turn it into a strength, was really well done.

Characters, however, were the most entertaining during the early Orange Islands- early Johto run. Ash's headstrong hero schtick hadn't lost its charm, Misty was actually given stuff to do (something she suffered from in most all of Johto up until the whirl cup), and Brock was funny as hell. Tracey... also had his moments, though he wasn't nearly as entertaining.

Hoenn was okay, but it seemed like Johto 2.0 with the added addition of contests (which were pretty entertaining while May was there)

Battle Frontier was fun, and we got to see a lot of Ash's old Pokemon after not seeing any of them for 3 seasons.

Sinnoh... was a mixed bag. Great battles, good character arcs for Chimchar, Paul, and Ash (and each of Ash's Pokemon managed to be interesting. I miss you Gliscor. So much). The Team Galactic plot was also okay. But Dawn wasn't nearly as interesting as May was, and her whole subplot made me stop watching for a while. I know others are big fans of her, but I honestly thought it was bland.

Unova has its fair share of pointless episodes so far, but its actually given us competent villains and more continuity, so I'm happy with that. My only complaint so far is that Cilan is pretty annoying, but other than that its fine.

However... they really goofed in changing the voice actors. I'm not aware of all that went down when we changed from 4kids to The Pokemon Company, all I know is that the new voices irk me something awful. Still watchable though.

Kenshin5
June 27th, 2012, 08:23 PM
As with every generation and new series there seems to be pros and cons with all of them. Its not going down it as it stands its just not up to par in certain categories.

Piggy backing off what others said we have more in depth character development with people and pokemon that are not Ash and his pokes. Rivalries are better at least with Paul, consider Ash didn't really face Gary until after Orange Islands when Pikachu fought Eevee. Seems like they had way too few of an interaction to have much of a rivalry. Which is almost how I am feeling about Trip, since their third battle way back before any Don Tournaments they haven't had a battle. And generally when we do see Trip he has a so so showing at the Tournament.

Team Rocket and how they are depends on the person. Do you like comedy over serious nature they are like secret agents kind of ? Because for myself I'd rather seem them in this fashion then the comic relieve they provided over the years, not to mention I didn't feel their presence was needed in literally almost every episode.

The animation for me is an improvement as I prefer how the battle animations are as opposed to more simple in the past.

One of few things I dislike though is the throwing learned battle skills Ash and Pikachu had and throw them out the window and which would seem to a greater extend in BW then any prior generations.

Another thing I am not happy with is their handling of Team Plasma. Since the banned episodes they have not shown Plasma at all. They had chances I felt with an episode like Black Hero Remains when they explored a cave/temple area with Cedric Juniper and find a stone supposedly related to Zekrom. Hopefully they do something in Best Wishes season 2 about it. Then again aside from St. Anne what did Team Rocket as a team really do in Kanto?

crystalzapdos
June 28th, 2012, 12:11 PM
http://chzpokememes.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/pokmon-then-versus-now.jpg

See any difference? Either eye surgery/transplantation or contact lenses, but I've never seen Ash take off or put on contact lenses so it's probably the first alternative.

Why does the eye color change bother you so much? Does it really matter?


Misty? who cares. She should stay in her gym forever and never return.

If they never replaced Misty, people would be complaining that they need top get rid of her and get a new girl. Sadly, the fandom will never be happy.

I've encountered that anyone who watched pokemon always seems to like the show at the point that they started watching it. For instance, i grew up watching the first five seasons seeing ash and misty have some kinda thing and then she just leaves. Well, of course now that the main characters have changed its feels like its lost something and is going downhill.

Even though Ash only placed top 16 in the first season and top eight in the 5th, it still seemed as though the story was making progression, imo.

Now new characters isnt so bad but then came the voice changing. There was a voice change in the first season, but it wasnt as dramatic. Picture watching a show for 9 years with the same voices and all-of-a-sudden youre in the middle of the 9th season and the main character seems to have undergone reverse puberty....

I understand how a voice change can be annoying,. but there's nothing they can do about it. Ash's old voice most likely found a job making better money or retired. Most people don't have the same job forever. We would have to end up having a voice change sometime.

PokeAwesome94
June 28th, 2012, 04:22 PM
I don't think that you can compare the animation from 1998 (season 1) with animation from 2006 (season 10). Animation techniques are developed more as years pass and the never episodes will generally have better animation.

Unova - Then it's your lost. Your missing out on great stuff BW series has been giving us.

Guess I'll just have to be satisfied with watching the 659 pre-Unova epidodes (minus 2 unaired episodes and episode 38: Electric Soldier Porygon, plus the 22 Pokémon Chronicles episodes)

What is actually so good in the first seasons? the top 16? Top 8 in Johto? In sinnoh and Isshu he is much better. top 4, and i belive that top 2 in the Isshu league.

He won the Orange Islands and Battle Frontier and he was offered to become a Frontier brain. I don't think that's so bad.

But Dawn wasn't nearly as interesting as May was, and her whole subplot made me stop watching for a while. I know others are big fans of her, but I honestly thought it was bland.

I prefer Misty and then May before Dawn. It's not that Dawn isn't a good character, but I like Misty and May more. It's also because I think that the Swedish dub voice of Dawn was quite lifeless and dull.

Why does the eye color change bother you so much? Does it really matter?

It's a small and unimportant change in compaison to the voice actor change - (that isn't too important to me either since I mainly watch it in Swedish) - but it annoys me to see how the series is gradually changed and "babyfied" + the new eyes creep me out.

Iceman3317
June 29th, 2012, 08:18 AM
Kanto and the Orange Isles: Was the best season.
Johto: I hated. Only thing I liked was Movie 2000.
Hoenn and Frontier: I loved. This is my favorite season. I loved everything about Hoenn and Frontiers.
Sinnoh: I hated. The movies were ok.
Unova: I love and the movies are ok.

That's my thoughts.

crystalzapdos
June 30th, 2012, 10:56 AM
It's a small and unimportant change in compaison to the voice actor change -

Exactly, which is why I'm wondering why it bothers you.

(that isn't too important to me either since I mainly watch it in Swedish) - but it annoys me to see how the series is gradually changed and "babyfied"

Your watching a show made for seven year olds, of course you'll think that.

+ the new eyes creep me out.

This is hilarious. Their eyes. They aren't going to try to kill you in the middle of the night. Their just normal brown eyes. How are you Creeped out by them?

Poke-roogs
June 30th, 2012, 06:50 PM
I prefer Misty and then May before Dawn. It's not that Dawn isn't a good character, but I like Misty and May more.


Believe me, so do I. Misty had a nice dynamic with Ash until Togepi sucked the life out of her.

Iris is actually pretty good though. They give her stuff to do that actually contributes to the main plot (as in, doesn't seem like a pointless add on. Looking at you, Contests).

As a side note, I actually prefer Ash's new eyes. They seem a little more energetic and life-like. Just bring back the ol' Pokemon Expo hat and his design is perfect.

DBZ fan
July 1st, 2012, 06:18 AM
Believe me, so do I. Misty had a nice dynamic with Ash until Togepi sucked the life out of her.



I don't think so.
Togepi didn't leeched out character from Misty, being full of personality in second half of Kanto, Orange Islands, Johto and Hoenn as well from what i noticed. If anything Togepi only helped her to mature bringing out other sides of character which were overshadowed by temper at times being step toward future development. Development provided her with more substance which is never a bad thing because it gives more depth to someone enriching his personality and adding to appeal.Change is necessary because if character don't develop they start to stagnate(like poor Brock) becoming eventually boring.

I remember she was still tomboyish and rebellious and sarcastic, being full of adventurous spirit liking to explore after Togepi. Only change was that she was less aggressive which is good thing because it made character more competent and tough while still keeping her enjoyable traits being assertive as well spunky and vivid.This can be noticed in way she interacted with several characters becoming closer friend to Ash and Brock being very hard for her to leave them at end of Johto.

And judging by hosos and AG cameos she managed to grew more confident and responsible while remaining hotheaded and playful which made her better character imo.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
July 2nd, 2012, 09:53 PM
Well for me the anime was good until the end of the frontier...sinnoh was the pit but BW seems to be restoring some of that. Hopefully B2W2 will be as good as Hoenn was and progress from there like a parabola.

PokeAwesome94
July 3rd, 2012, 07:05 AM
This is hilarious. Their eyes. They aren't going to try to kill you in the middle of the night. Their just normal brown eyes. How are you Creeped out by them?

I'm not scared by them if that's what you mean. Maybe something got lost in translation, since English is not my native language. I'm talking about the unpleasant feeling you get when you listen to Justin Bieber. That's how I feel when I look at Ash's new eyes.

skyluigi2
July 3rd, 2012, 11:07 AM
I love the older episodes, the Kanto and Johto sagas.
Hoenn and Sinnoh I can cope with, but the Unova anime is terrible. I mean, get rid of Brock? Brock was the one sane character in the anime that still provided a few laughs.
Cilan and Iris can go and crawl under a rock for all I care.

hassanabdullah45k
July 31st, 2012, 09:40 AM
Really, if you would ask me, the whole pokemon series ended for me in the episode Gotta Catch Ya' Later.
Alright ! Alright!
I admit that you COULD watch the later episodes.
And just for those who say that i remember brock and misty from my childhood, thats right. But my brothers never let me watch it properly. So i only got a few glimpses of brock ash and misty.
But i would still like to see the original trio back !
(maybe in the end! )

Megaman3007
July 31st, 2012, 12:16 PM
I feel DP was the best but BW is lacking. I think its due to them going for the Kanto feel which was not a good story to start with. If they gave the DP writing for BW I would of loved it.

weedle_mchairybug
August 1st, 2012, 09:05 AM
That argument (the part about the seasons getting worse) seems to be factual, actually. The ratings data from both the US and Japan also indicated that the longer the season went, the worse it got. For example, Hoenn did even worse than Johto, and that was widely thought to be the worst season (at least according to some people. Me, personally, I didn't really see what the big problem was with Johto.). I can't comment on BW or the later seasons of DP as I haven't seen them, though, but early DP seemed to be around the same level as the second season of AG in Japan, at least, from what I saw on Pokeani's ratings. I know there's the problem about the Japanese population decreasing, but I don't think that's the main problem. Plus, the decrease in population would actually cause ratings percentages to go higher, not sink even further, and certainly not dramatically dip.

Regarding that Misty/Togepi comment, Misty actually already had a motherly nature even before Togepi. Should I remind you about her expressing concern for Pikachu in the first episode? Or how about her interaction with Oddish midway through the episode where Bulbasaur was caught? And as DBZFan/PokemonFan123 said, if Misty doesn't get much character development, she'll stagnate. Heck, I'm not even a person who is comfortable with changes or divergences, yet even I can see it. If you should blame anyone for her being stagnant, blame the writers. And besides, she still did stuff in the series before she left, so I don't buy the whole "She didn't do anything in Johto" complaint.

Poke-roogs
August 5th, 2012, 08:09 AM
Regarding that Misty/Togepi comment, Misty actually already had a motherly nature even before Togepi. Should I remind you about her expressing concern for Pikachu in the first episode? Or how about her interaction with Oddish midway through the episode where Bulbasaur was caught? And as DBZFan/PokemonFan123 said, if Misty doesn't get much character development, she'll stagnate. Heck, I'm not even a person who is comfortable with changes or divergences, yet even I can see it. If you should blame anyone for her being stagnant, blame the writers. And besides, she still did stuff in the series before she left, so I don't buy the whole "She didn't do anything in Johto" complaint.

See, she didn't do much in Johto, is the thing. There was the Whirl Islands and... well, that's about the only interesting thing that happened with Misty.

In regards to her mothering nature- that wasn't my point. Misty befriending/caring for a wild Pokemon in need is one thing (it makes for an entertaining episode), the writers using that as her main character trait is another.

Because THAT'S WHAT THEY DID. Of course it's the writers' fault, they used Togepi as a crutch to limp Misty along for about a hundred episodes. Before Johto, Misty was much more prone to getting into fights with Ash and having episodes centered around her. Constantly carrying a baby Pokemon and worrying about its safety limited what she could do.

Anywho, I said my piece, I don't think we should get too sidetracked here.

Hoenn
August 5th, 2012, 12:16 PM
I find the newer Seasons generally better, I find myself becoming more attached and intrigued to the episodes which makes me want to watch more.

DBZ fan
August 7th, 2012, 06:11 AM
See, she didn't do much in Johto, is the thing. There was the Whirl Islands and... well, that's about the only interesting thing that happened with Misty.

In regards to her mothering nature- that wasn't my point. Misty befriending/caring for a wild Pokemon in need is one thing (it makes for an entertaining episode), the writers using that as her main character trait is another.

Because THAT'S WHAT THEY DID. Of course it's the writers' fault, they used Togepi as a crutch to limp Misty along for about a hundred episodes. Before Johto, Misty was much more prone to getting into fights with Ash and having episodes centered around her. Constantly carrying a baby Pokemon and worrying about its safety limited what she could do.

Anywho, I said my piece, I don't think we should get too sidetracked here.

I don't know, not too long ago i watched Johto and Misty seemed pretty vivid there. She still had that passionate love for water types, romantic side falling for cure pokemon or couples(like when she trued to pair up Genaro and Ariene from Whirl Islands), had that adventure spirit trying out new things(like failed attempt at cooking in "Sick Daze", spinarak beauty treatment when they met Aya again etc), had sarcasm, temper etc. Only real change was that she wasn't violent as much like she used to be in early days, and im fine with that because it was sign of character development beginning to mature and becoming better friend with Ash(which is why they argued less, but they still had fights,like for Totodile for example and Misty never stopped teasing him). Even outside of Misty focused episodes, you will see her playing of great with several various characters adding to dynamic in Johto.

I also noticed she battled more often than she did in Kanto using Poliwag line, Staryu and Corsola in several battles whether it was when battling other trainers or Team Rocket. She entered various competitions (like Seaking catching contest or Alto Mare race)displaying her skills as water trainer,. She also had great dynamic with several characters like fire trainer Egan , Sakura with connection of both having older sisters becoming good friends and rivals in a way,Andreas from Seaking tournament etc.

Problem wasn't in character really or Togepi, but in not receiving enough focus to properly shine. That's why in some Johto episodes you can barely see her interact aside from few lines, its because she was in background not playing any role nor having chance to properly show her qualities. This happens to every character if he is in some episodes sidelined too much(Brock and even Ash had same problem there with writing for Johto being poor due to writers inexperience back than not dividing focus adequately). In hosos and AG appearances she was very intriguing finding right balance between tomboyish and girly side.

Gasai Yuno
August 7th, 2012, 12:25 PM
The truth is that I've left the Anime altogether. I felt like it hit it's peak at the advanced generation season, in Hoenn. After that, Diamond and Pearl got boring (only the gym battles were worth watching) and Black and White... was not appealing at all. After the Hoenn series, the Anime grew worse progressively.

Yes, yes, yes. I do agree the anime got worse around when Hoenn ended. I stopped watching the anime altogether. I wish they'd just drop Ash and make a Pokemon Adventures anime with Red.

Danny Leo
August 7th, 2012, 02:26 PM
I stopped watching the anime when it got to Unova. Getting rid of Brock was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

PokeAwesome94
August 8th, 2012, 01:08 AM
After the Hoenn series, the Anime grew worse progressively.

Agreed.

I stopped watching the anime when it got to Unova. Getting rid of Brock was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Same here.

I wish they'd just drop Ash and make a Pokemon Adventures anime with Red.

Same here. And for all of you who doesn't like that idea, there's always the possibility of having two animes, as long as both generate enough profit and there's enough staff to produce both. And for all of you who like the idea of a Pokémon anime based on the Pokémon Special manga (aka Pokémon Adventures), look at my signature. ;)

voicerocker
August 8th, 2012, 07:14 AM
Yes, yes, yes. I do agree the anime got worse around when Hoenn ended. I stopped watching the anime altogether. I wish they'd just drop Ash and make a Pokemon Adventures anime with Red.

There's a problem with Red though: people love to say he's unbeatable. If the writers dared to have Red lose at all, people would freak. People already hate when Ash loses a battle, imagine the hate that would come if Red were to lose even once.

I stopped watching the anime when it got to Unova. Getting rid of Brock was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Brock has been replaced once before, and was seemingly replaced for Hoenn. Tracey took Brock's place for the Orange Islands. In Hoenn, Brock made a surprise return after he, Ash and Misty all went their serparate ways.

Personally, I like Brock more than Cilan, but Cilan is not bad, just different. Cilan is filling the same role as Brock did, being the gym leader than travels with Ash. (Iris possibly takes Misty's role as well, but I don't think Iris has been specifically said to be a gym leader in the anime.)

ZetaZaku
August 8th, 2012, 08:32 AM
I prefer Dent over Brock. He's a lot funnier than Brock. I love Dent's "It's _____ time!" more than Brock's "HOT GIRLS HOT GIRLS". I am even happy that they replaced him. He was fine in the first show, but in Advanced and Diamond & Pearl he hit the bottom. Max pulling his ear and Croagunk stabbing him was just annoying. I mean, what's their problem? I can understand Misty, but what's Max's problem?

I haven't completed neither Advanced nor Diamond & Pearl, so I can't be 100% sure about it, but I think that the show got better and better. Especially Diamond & Pearl and Best Wishes. Best Wishes tops the first show any time. And Team Rocket is cool again. Sadly, the only times they were cool before were the cooperation episodes. And of course in the movies.

The only thing I dislike is the fact that they put Iris instead of White in the show. Iris is a good character and I like her, but I'd rather have White in the show. Thankfully, they added Bel.

Gleam Noiyam
August 10th, 2012, 08:35 AM
Here is my opinions:

Seasons 1-2: The best seasons because Misty is amazing and the plot's a lot more tolerable.
Seasons 3-5: Meh. They were alright. Not that great but they were alright it started going downhill a bit here.
Seasons 6-8: When Max came the show got worse. It went downhill even more.
Season 9: Battle Frontier was alright. It wasn't great, but it was alright.
Seasons 10-13: Terrible time for Pokemon. The seasons were crappy, stupid and horribly childish Pokemon was the worst around this time.
Seasons 14-15 (current): Actually, I find B/W amazing and Pokemon went uphill when Cilan joined the crew.

Those are my thoughts please don't rant and flame me for this...

Pecilia
August 10th, 2012, 11:15 PM
I don't really care about the eye surgery, no what I'm really wondering is how he can start in Pallet town at age ten and the narrator explains that he's age 10 in the Unova region. Like, what the heck? No one can beat 4 leagues and the orange islands while being chased by a bunch of goons. Brock id better than Cilan, Tracey is better than Cilan as well, I'm not hating on him though he's alright. Now let's get to the annoying female companions. Misty, she's annoying from the first episode Ash meets her. May was better than Misty by far attitude wise. Dawn is kinda crossing the wrong side of the line and Iris? Oh come on! She's about as bad as Misty. I liked the older ones better, with the squirtle squad and the comedy. I will however say this. In Unova, when the heck did team Rocket get more BA? Oh before I forget, Gary Oak had something Paul will never be able to live up to. The fact that Gary has been Ash's rival since they were young. Okay I think I'm just rambling now. Anyways I like the first seasons better than the new ones.

weedle_mchairybug
August 12th, 2012, 10:56 AM
I don't really care about the eye surgery, no what I'm really wondering is how he can start in Pallet town at age ten and the narrator explains that he's age 10 in the Unova region. Like, what the heck? No one can beat 4 leagues and the orange islands while being chased by a bunch of goons. Brock id better than Cilan, Tracey is better than Cilan as well, I'm not hating on him though he's alright. Now let's get to the annoying female companions. Misty, she's annoying from the first episode Ash meets her. May was better than Misty by far attitude wise. Dawn is kinda crossing the wrong side of the line and Iris? Oh come on! She's about as bad as Misty. I liked the older ones better, with the squirtle squad and the comedy. I will however say this. In Unova, when the heck did team Rocket get more BA? Oh before I forget, Gary Oak had something Paul will never be able to live up to. The fact that Gary has been Ash's rival since they were young. Okay I think I'm just rambling now. Anyways I like the first seasons better than the new ones.

At least Misty wasn't anything like the girls from the episode Princess vs. Princess, or the girls from Love Hina or the girls from Battle Vixens. I can't say the same thing about May or Dawn. I can't comment either way on Iris though, since I haven't watched any episodes of Black and White, and I haven't heard whether she had any similar situations as in Princess v. Princess.

Pokemon Trainer UV
August 12th, 2012, 09:47 PM
I was fine with Pokemon for a long time, it had slumps and bad moments over the seasons, but it was tolerable, until Black and White. They pretty much got rid of a decade of Ash's growth, and it was pretty irritating to see Pikachu lose to a Snivy with barely any experience...

To me, the high points of the series were in the first 2 seasons, Battle Frontier, and Diamond and Pearl.

Umbr30n
August 13th, 2012, 08:20 AM
I never really watched the old episodes (Except from the first few) and I really think the Johto Season, which is noticeably older, is better.