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vaporeon7
July 10th, 2012, 10:28 AM
Pokémon Black and White received a perfect score of 40/40 from Famitsu, which is considered to be the most widely read and respected video game news magazine in Japan. Pokémon Black and White are so far the only Pokémon games to receive a perfect score from the magazine and are one of nineteen games to receive it. Other magazines such as Nintendo Power and The Official Nintendo magazine gave it 9/10 and 90% respectively.

Did Black and White really deserve to receive such high scores? With all the features the games lacked (eg Safari Zone, move tutors, Battle Frontier), were they really perfect, or did the new features such as the C-Gear and Dream World make up for it? What score do you think they deserved?

Aeroplane
July 10th, 2012, 10:41 AM
I definitely do not think they deserved 40/40. 30/40 maybe, 35/40 is stretching it.

Simply said, I'm shocked as to how these games were so widely praised. I didn't find them that enjoyable. Good games? Sure. Perfect games? Nowhere near.

HG/SS should have gotten 40/40, not B/W.

Most features that B/W added were trivial at best, while taking out great additions that previous generations were praised for (Such as the toggle running shoes of HG/SS, Battle Frontier, etc.)

Just my opinion though.

Haseyo
July 10th, 2012, 10:45 AM
I believe it was the actual good story (all previous ones were pretty basic, Platinum being the only one to stretch craziness), the amount of gameplay changes / moves / hold items, and the amount of new Pokemon all were great additions. Safari Zone is outdated, and the Frontier isn't exactly needed because many just fight online now, but it would've been nice too. B2/W2 definitely deserved a 40/40, and B/W probably 38-39/40, only because the Subway was kind of weaksauce.

HG/SS was Platinum with Crystal's story. I don't think remakes ever deserve full scores only because it's...nothing really new.

Munchlax11
July 10th, 2012, 10:48 AM
Black and White lacked post game activity. After the E4 it was pretty much done. It had a better story than past main series games, but did not deserve a 40/40

Boomburst
July 10th, 2012, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't say that B/W should get a perfect score. The only Pokemon game I can give that merit to is Emerald that that was only how good the Battle Frontier was and the speed of the battle system.

B/W had a rather aimless post-game and the Battle Subway was rather lacking, plus some of the better tm moves like stealth rock got replaced by gimmicky and, at times, useless moves such as struggle bug.

I'd say B/W gets a 38/40 from me, although the sequels could get a 39 or a 40.

Aquacorde
July 10th, 2012, 10:58 AM
I don't think so. I honestly didn't find them very enjoyable and the new features not very useful. The story was sort-of interesting but everything was very linear and I hated that I had no freedom to wander around without advancing the storyline. I have to admit, I got bored and stopped playing before the E4. I've never ever failed to finish a Pokémon game on my first run before and I just... was not interested enough. Levelling up was hard too, that may have been part of the boredom factor.

I just don't think they were anywhere near perfect. I don't know what I would give them, being that I don't know the scoring system, but certainly not over 35.

SuperTreaz
July 10th, 2012, 12:40 PM
I would have given them a 37. NOT based on their creativity or originality (STUNFISK), but on their new graphics. I found Castelia City beautiful. Somewhat annoying at times, yet the views of it (in the city and on Skyarrow) awesome. It also felt less like a genuine Pokemon game. Maybe it was the new map and Entralink, or maybe it was the new older age of the protagonist.
I also liked the pureness of the criminal team leader (N), while Ghetsis is going around being a meanie and yelling at everyone.
All in all, from the humor (the "legs" girl...... :|) to the graphics, it was an awesome game.

Rivvon
July 11th, 2012, 05:49 AM
Realize that no game can be perfect, and just because it got a perfect score does not mean that the judges think the game is perfect.
Also understand how those scores come about: four people rate the game out of 10, and their scores all get added together. No one person rates it out of 40.

Taking that into consideration, I would actually say yes.
It introduced new Pokemon, which already cements it as a major addition to the Pokemon universe as a whole (and whether or not you like the majority of them is irrelevant, because each Pokemon is liked by someone), had an acceptable amount of post-game content, and it really pushed the envelope in terms of narrative and story-telling.

PlatinumDude
July 11th, 2012, 07:11 AM
At the time the games were released, I think B/W deserved the perfect score because of the new Pokemon introduced as well as the storyline, which was mentioned above. IMO, that really made up for the lack of Safari Zone and Game Corner. But with B2/W2 coming soon, I think they should've been 36-39/40; there wasn't much to do post-game.

Hikamaru
July 11th, 2012, 07:25 AM
I think Black & White deserved their perfect score for these reasons: The new Pokemon were kinda interesting but most of them were pretty strong and useful, the storyline and characters were captured perfectly, the protagonists being older than the usual 10-year-old Trainer, the concept with Team Plasma, the big improvement in graphics (particularly the Ferris Wheel and Castelia City), the massive gameplay/move/item changes, the introduction of new gimmicky abilities, the concept of two rivals and the acceptable amount of post-game content.

While the Battle Subway and lack of a Safari Zone were a disappointment, the rest of the game was great.

If I rated this out of 40, I'd give it 37 (especially because B2/W2 is coming soon). I mean, the 5th Generation is one generation of Pokemon done right and B2/W2 will be even better on top of that.

Coming from a 5th Generation fan like myself, some of my fave Pokemon were even introduced including my beloved Oshawott!

Dixie Kong
July 11th, 2012, 08:15 AM
I think this gen reeled in a lot of old players and new players and did a great job at doing so. I can name a ton of people that it brought in or back in to the series. And it brought Petilil and Victini. What more could you ask for? :D Those Pokemon alone are a perfect score, lol. But in all seriousness, I do think BW deserved its score. I think it did a great job at giving the series a fresh start, however not perfectly. No game is perfect, as I'm sure it's been said in this thread plenty of times.

Atomic Pirate
July 11th, 2012, 08:43 AM
The games definitely didn't deserve the extremely high scores. The stories weren't nearly as good as the magazines hyped them up to be, the lack of old Pokemon was unfortunate, there was effectively no postgame, and there were many of the new Pokemon that were extremely disappointing in either design, stats, or both. Plus, the game featured too many pointless legendaries, and many Pokemon that were covered in spikes and armor just so the kids would like them.

Plus, the games were a major step back from the last games, the brilliantly great Heart Gold and Soul Silver.

Blue
July 11th, 2012, 08:46 AM
I'd say so yeah, they know what they're talking about and I certainly had fun playing it. They included many features old and new, the difficulty was fine not too easy but not too hard and overall I really enjoyed it. I'm especially looking forward to Black & White 2 now!

vaporeon7
July 11th, 2012, 09:20 AM
I think they deserved what scores they received. They had plenty of new and exciting Pokémon to catch, amazing graphics for a DS game, worked with WPA internet, had great multiplayer functions and had so much more. It didn't matter that there was no Safari Zone or underground, etc, because it had plenty of new and better things to replace them.

Zayphora
July 12th, 2012, 06:03 AM
I think they deserved a 39, because they weren't perfect, but they were really good. The graphics were cool, the evil team had a slightly new twist, they added a few new features, but there were some things that were lacking- like Musicals, which I personally think is the worst fail GAME FREAK made with BW. But I think a 39 would have been good.

Skitty1
July 12th, 2012, 06:04 AM
No - I've played BW and went back to HG... why did they get rid of all the good things from HG/SS?! >.<

chella182
July 12th, 2012, 01:21 PM
I honestly think that they did deserve it. Or as close to perfect as can be, anyway. Sure, they lacked some classic features (I would've liked a Safari Zone), but imo the Dream World and C-Gear made up for it, as the original post says. That and I found the storyline for DPPt mind-numbingly boring, and I'm not such a fan of the RSE storyline either, so it was refreshing to have a storyline that gripped me & I enjoyed playing through.

Cyclone
July 13th, 2012, 09:11 AM
It seems to me that, for Famitsu, simplicity goes a long way. For them, it was simple, nothing complex. It was a new region to explore (not a revisit to Kanto through a southern exit of an area that previously wasn't there). There was no growing Berries, no Pokéblocks, a limited number of Berries to get in-game and once a day in some cases, and so on. The map, once you reach Nimbasa City, is circular; you don't do a lot of backtracking (except once to Desert Resort and then to Nacrene, though by now you have Fly), and it's a generic path you follow without having to go back to other areas. In other words, simple. And that might be their rating system: simplicity.

I personally think a game like Crystal, if it were made in today's mapmaking format instead of the way it was at its time, would be a 40/40 game easily. However, keep in mind that after beating the Elite 4, you have to tackle another eight Gyms, another batch of new challenges, another 30 routes or whatever, more complex backtracking perhaps (I didn't play the ROM past the path to Victory Road for some reason, likely due to changing systems), and so on - things that complex what to that point has been a more simple game. Therefore, it would get a 35 from Famitsu instead of the 40 it deserves (what DID it get, NEway?). I think Black/White, given they introduce a new generation and some new combination types (Rock/Fighting for instance), might be able to get a 35; the sequels probably won't because you end up revisiting areas, and some people will say you shouldn't get Black or White now, you're already visiting the same areas you did then, or don't bother with the new ones if you have the originals because it's mostly the same game, blah blah. Of course, we know better. What I've seen of the sequels uses the old areas in hew ways (meteors in one route and Route 4 construction completed, for example). It makes for a similar experience, like revisiting Kanto from Johto, but still encompasses the same area making it a new experience in some ways. Also, the entire path to the Pokémon League is changed; what exactly is in the north part of Opelucid City now? Route 2 is changed to force you through the wild grass by making the old cliff jumps unwalkable. Things like that. It's a fresh experience in a familiar area. And Black 2 / White 2 should get a 45 if B/W gets a 40.

Cyclone

Cassino
July 13th, 2012, 04:14 PM
Too short and 'empty' to warrant such a score.
Now, if it was on the 3DS and took full advantage of the new hardware... ... ... but it wasn't.

pokemontrainer_samuel
July 13th, 2012, 06:15 PM
I've played all the games of the pokemon main series, and I find BW a big improvement compared to it's predecessors. All that graphics and the rich storyline just blew me away.

Don't get me wrong, I was really marveled by the cut scenes in D/P/Pt which weren't available in previous generations, and HG/SS was a big improvement with the menu on the touch screen and all, but BW is really in a league of it's own. Better graphics, new pokemon, GTS trading, Dream World. Initially I bought the game just for the sake of buying a pokemon game (because I heard my friend telling me how ridiculous the new pokemons were), but in the end it was totally awesome!

One drawback is that I find it hard to get evolution stones, and also berries (but hey, I don't use berries anyway. Can still remember breaking the 400 mark with Sitrus berries in my Sapphire game). It doesn't really lack post-game material because of the Dream World and online battles and GTS. The auto activation of the running shoes doesn't quite bother me since after years of pokemon gaming, I've sorta gotten used to pressing on the B button to make my character run. Running without pressing the B button seems a bit... How do I describe it... Empty?

But one thing that I really don't like about the game is Black City. I read that the number of citizens in Black City will depend on how many days it takes you to reach Black City. I had 10 battleable citizens in Black City initially. But then someone borrowed my DS for a year (in exchange she lent me her PSP) and I when I continued playing it after getting back my DS, There are only 3 battleable citizens left :(

Overall, I would say that BW really deserves the 40/40. It's graphics are definitely nothing if you compare them to RPG games on other consoles, like Final Fantasy on the PS3 or something like that. But for a DS game, it's hard to find anything better than BW.

droomph
July 13th, 2012, 06:58 PM
Eh...it's fine really. Its good points far outweigh the bad.

...there's really not much to say other than that - it's a whole new experience, and I liked it. Except the Pokémon, but I got used to that. :D

Dalek_Kabu
July 13th, 2012, 07:21 PM
only outstanding parts i liked was a more in-deptht story line new fossils and the new gtsn (global trade station negotiation) other than that could have been better (boats to kanto,hoenn,johto,and sinnoh any one?) or more fossils.us

Cyclone
July 13th, 2012, 08:19 PM
only outstanding parts i liked was a more in-deptht story line new fossils and the new gtsn (global trade station negotiation) other than that could have been better (boats to kanto,hoenn,johto,and sinnoh any one?) or more fossils.us
If there is ever a Grey edition, I wonder if a Kanto/Johto map will be added and Pokémon levels within Unova limited to allow you to seek out an extra eight Gyms again. I'd like that. Fly from Mistralton City, only available after beating the Elite 4.

Even better, someday I'd like a Pokémon Ultimate comprising all five regions; start at Kanto and find three Gyms (obviously some Routes can be closed off due to "construction" or something), then go to Johto and find another three, off to Hoenn for two more, find Victory Road here, then off to a ninth Gym beyond that Victory Road, off to Sinnoh for another trio, then the final four in Unova in that circular loop (Nimbasa, Mistralton with the airport, Icirrus, and Opelucid all being candidates for inclusion) and off to that peninsula through the original Route 10 (reopened after the landslide mess was cleaned up, but VR perhaps simplified for caves being filled in) for its Elite 4, all comprised of Lv.90 Pokémon and a Champion at Lv.95 with a Lv.97 leader. Basically, comprise areas from all five generations into one 16-Gym mega-challenge and force the player to reach the highest levels of training to win. Sounds fun to me. Might need a console system for the data required.

In other words, that will never happen.

Cyclone


Cyclone

Forever
July 14th, 2012, 12:42 AM
If there is ever a Grey edition, I wonder if a Kanto/Johto map will be added and Pokémon levels within Unova limited to allow you to seek out an extra eight Gyms again. I'd like that. Fly from Mistralton City, only available after beating the Elite 4.

Even better, someday I'd like a Pokémon Ultimate comprising all five regions; start at Kanto and find three Gyms (obviously some Routes can be closed off due to "construction" or something), then go to Johto and find another three, off to Hoenn for two more, find Victory Road here, then off to a ninth Gym beyond that Victory Road, off to Sinnoh for another trio, then the final four in Unova in that circular loop (Nimbasa, Mistralton with the airport, Icirrus, and Opelucid all being candidates for inclusion) and off to that peninsula through the original Route 10 (reopened after the landslide mess was cleaned up, but VR perhaps simplified for caves being filled in) for its Elite 4, all comprised of Lv.90 Pokémon and a Champion at Lv.95 with a Lv.97 leader. Basically, comprise areas from all five generations into one 16-Gym mega-challenge and force the player to reach the highest levels of training to win. Sounds fun to me. Might need a console system for the data required.

In other words, that will never happen.

Cyclone

Interesting idea, but kind of off-topic from the discussion of whether B/W deserved 40/40. You could always bring that up in Pokemon Gaming Central though @ latter idea. n_n

Now time to be controversial since most said no! Did they deserve 40/40? Yes. I really think they went all-out with the games. The storyline was amazing, the music was amazing, everything was basically amazing, and the small issues were sorta covered by all the good there actually was in the games. Also it should be noted that at that time there was no B2W2, however, in general it probably would've been assumed that there would be a sequel to fix some of the issues you guys are mentioning. Also if it was too full of stuff, like you guys would've preferred, then there would be no need for sequels, etc. So based on what we have I think they really did deserve 40/40 because they bypassed my expectations as well as others for what we'd see in Pokemon games, and are the start of many things that I'm sure future games will carry on.

Elite Overlord LeSabre™
July 14th, 2012, 03:47 AM
No, they did not earn a 40 score. That was one of the deciding factors, one that convinced me to put other concerns aside regarding B/W and actually bite the bullet and buy a copy. And I wanted to kick myself for it. So much in these games either seems like a rushed effort, or a conscious decision to make things more frustrating and tedious. From the menu interface to the altered EXP system, from the massive level gap post-E4 to the lack of key features like the Vs. Seeker, the small things added up to make my experience less than enjoyable. A total score of 30 at absolute best.

(Then again, I never saw why HG/SS are so highly regarded either. I might have rated them one or two points higher than B/W, at best)

Arghlx
July 14th, 2012, 05:35 AM
Just don't listen to Famitsu, they have pretty much no standards. Funny how they give BW2 36/40 when, from an objective standpoint, it's pretty much a better game because it improves on things that were lacking in BW.

Cyclone
July 14th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Just don't listen to Famitsu, they have pretty much no standards. Funny how they give BW2 36/40 when, from an objective standpoint, it's pretty much a better game because it improves on things that were lacking in BW.
See my post. It's more complex for them, thus deserving a lower score.

Cyclone

Arghlx
July 14th, 2012, 07:33 AM
See my post. It's more complex for them, thus deserving a lower score.

Cyclone

I read your rather insightful post, but I fail to see how BW2 are more complex than their predecessors, as there aren't really any core game changes. You've got features like the PWT, the new move tutors and so forth - but these are quite simple gameplay additions that shouldn't confuse the average player. The region, while updated and a little less linear, isn't all that different.

Back on topic - I think maybe Famitsu gave BW a 40/40 because they were impressed with the new region, the new Pokemon, et cetera. I don't think it deserves such a score, though, because it wasn't devoid of flaws (can't be bothered to nitpick now so I won't list them). They are definitely great games, though, but let's face it: how different are they from the other installments in the franchise? I feel like if BW deserved its perfect score, most if not all of the other games should have been ranked equally. Just maybe not DP.

Cyclone
July 14th, 2012, 08:01 AM
It's not my view that it's more complex. I think it's a great enhancement to the game and a nice way to add new areas to an existing map; the more interesting it is, the more chance I'll keep playing. The only things missing are Cold Storage, replaced by PWT with a different entrance to the south (someone tell me if you can access from Driftveil?) and Route 10, removed entirely due to a landslide on Victory Road, leading to the new route and Badge Check Gates near the ruins of N's Castle. (I believe Undella Bay is replaced by the Marine Tube, too, anyone care to confirm?) Meanwhile, there are a ton of new areas to explore, and the leveling system seems a lot better and more fair post-Elite 4 as I believe you're already fighting Wild Pokémon in the 50s by the time you get there (with the 60s leading to Numeva Town this time around; I know by Route 9 you're in the 40s, which B/W don't even have on Victory Road).

My comment on simplicity, however, might be what Famitsu is referring to in their lower score. If B/W gets a 40, B2/W2 deserves a 45. However, having areas that branch off from the circular area of the prior game may be something they don't like. Maybe it's the PWT they don't like. Maybe they want Cold Storage back! (After all, Vanillite, the first ice-type, was there in the grass outside.) Maybe they want something more out of the Marine Tube, or they're nostalgic about Numeva Town and mad they can't start there again. Who knows? Something caused them to give the game a 36, as I expected they would (I expected a 35, but meh). It deserves a higher ranking than B/W as it seems a more put-together game with more storyline...but then, maybe there's too much storyline for Famitsu. Maybe it's all the stuff you have to do before Castelia City (the play thing being forced upon you, or whatever that is). Who knows?

Cyclone

Forever
July 14th, 2012, 08:58 AM
Hey guys, just a reminder that to discuss B2W2's score, that fits in B2W2, rather than here. I notice it's all relative, but I have a feeling you guys might veer off into discussing just B2W2's score and why (which is sorta what the last post kinda was) so just make sure it sticks to B/W, carry on! n_n

Spinosaurus
July 14th, 2012, 09:54 AM
No it did not. Contrary to popular beliefs, I feel like this game was the least different from the last one, in such it did not introduce something new that is a major factor to how the game is played compared to the other gens. Gen 2 introduced new types and balanced the whole typing, it's very different from Gen 1. Gen 3 introduced EVs, IVs and natures, and thus the games are vastly different from the last. Gen IV introduced the physical/special split which is actually a very big change.

But what has B/W introduced? Dream World and third abilities? That's not too big. Triple Battle and Rotation? ...nah. It's just gen IV on crack with weather.

Of course the whole thing is arguably different to a (I hate this word) "casual"'s point of view. But to a lot, it narrows down to the game's design. I felt B/W, as a whole, had terrible decisions in its design. Unova is a boring region, that feels completely empty, dull and especially short. (There are exceptions of course but it doesn't change anything.) The region design just isn't as memorable and limited to explore. B/W are the only games in which I completely put down and haven't turned back on (sold it actually) because of the very lackluster post-game.
I also don't see the praise in its story, this whole dark theme didn't do it justice, especially not in a main Pokemon theme that follows the past game's simplicity and audience. Pokemon Colosseum/XD did it right with shadow Pokemon, loveable characters and overall visuals. (However, it was targeted at an older audience. But B/W wasn't.)
The characters are also boring and uninspired for the most part in terms of design and characteristics. It's not like the main games had a lot of interesting and lovable characters, but I feel B/W as a whole was a step down in that department, especially with the new evil team and ugh N. (Luckily B/W2 fixes that with the new gym leaders and especially Corless.)

One thing it did right in the designs is the new Pokemon. I complained about the design of the game, but actually praised the Pokemon? Oh god!
In all seriousness however, the new Pokemon was definitely a step up from gen 4, as the designs were superb and inspired, even if their overall abilities gameplay-wise is vey questionable. (The new Pokemon really ruined the metagame for a lot of people.) HOWEVER, there is a huge problem in those new Pokemon in that they're the only ones available throughout the whole main game. That is just a poor decision, as it loses the overall variety in making your teams and it just feels limited. A lot of people would love using the old Pokemon should they dislike the new ones. (I don't support nostalgia-glass and those people, but you have to give them a bone if you want them to bite.) If this is their idea of a reboot, then it's just a poor attempt.
Fortunately, again, B/W2 fixes most of these. However, with the bad taste that B/W left to me, I'm not sure I am really interested in it.

Another thing is that what makes it deserve the higher score from other, arguably better, Pokemon games? Simplicity is a HUGE factor, as mentioned here, because a huge amount of people just pick-up the game and beat it fast, without spending too much time with raising their Pokemon and doing the post-game aspects. This is also huge for kids because it's not too complex for them. (D/P/Pt...)

Of course this is purely my opinion, and are not factual points whatsoever. I just feel B/W changed what shouldn't have been changed and kept what shouldn't have been kept from the main Pokemon games.

Overall, I would say that BW really deserves the 40/40. It's graphics are definitely nothing if you compare them to RPG games on other consoles, like Final Fantasy on the PS3 or something like that. But for a DS game, it's hard to find anything better than BW.
Graphically, it looks horrible. If you want a DS game with better art styles and visuals then Hotel Dusk, Warioware, Okamiden, Ghost Trick, Yoshi's Island DS, Rhythm Heaven and Metroid Prime: Hunters are just a few examples of better games visually and graphically (and generally...well, imo :P). If you want RPGs exclusively, Final Fantasy 4 DS and The World Ends With You are the first to come to mind.

They should have kept with HG/SS's style, but maybe it'd make B/W look too similar.

Cassino
July 14th, 2012, 12:13 PM
Just don't listen to Famitsu, they have pretty much no standards. Funny how they give BW2 36/40 when, from an objective standpoint, it's pretty much a better game because it improves on things that were lacking in BW.
When one grades a video game along a linear scale, one can only do so in respect to the current standards of the time, because, it should be needless to say, the future of video games hasn't happened, and it will always continue to be the future, so we cannot know it. Pretty much any game produced now is far more expansive and 'better' than one made in, say, 1993. One could retroactively rescore games as the times progress; I've not seen anyone do that though. If review scores could be made to consider all games that will come to exist in the future, those scores would still be very low without much variation between diffrent games, and that, for present-day purposes, rather defeats that these scores are supposed to be relative.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
July 14th, 2012, 12:34 PM
I don't think it deserves a perfect score, perhaps a near perfect score.

Bluerang1
July 14th, 2012, 01:26 PM
No because it was pretty bad post-game. Also, the fact that B2W2 scored less, just no.

TrainerCDub
July 14th, 2012, 01:34 PM
Personally, I really disliked Pokemon Black. I missed all of the older pokemon that I loved so much, and I disliked Bianca. I didn't get too far into the story line, so I can't really give an opinion on that. I ended up quitting early because I got frustrated.
I think dedicated fans would rate it higher, and fans who like the nostalgia of Pokemon would rate it lower. So, from the perspectives of the people who gave it such high ratings, it did deserve it. I think just the fact that it's a Pokemon game contributed to the score as well.

Cyclone
July 14th, 2012, 02:12 PM
Personally, I really disliked Pokemon Black. I missed all of the older pokemon that I loved so much, and I disliked Bianca. I didn't get too far into the story line, so I can't really give an opinion on that. I ended up quitting early because I got frustrated.
I think dedicated fans would rate it higher, and fans who like the nostalgia of Pokemon would rate it lower. So, from the perspectives of the people who gave it such high ratings, it did deserve it. I think just the fact that it's a Pokemon game contributed to the score as well.
The post-game, I agree, was poorly thought out (and I'm not even there yet). It seems all of the Gen. II Pokémon were thrown in as an afterthought; Ditto seems to be the only one worthwhile because it allows for breeding to become so much easier. It would have been better, I think, to have the extra part of the map only accessible from the PL area after beating the Elite Four, thus allowing for more storyline (and even skippable towns) in the surrounding areas. The game seems to have been rushed, however, and is way too linear compared to the average Pokémon game. I've already determined, once I catch some good Dittos, to start setting up a shop of Pokébabies to trade right from Level 1 for anyone wanting to raise them in their games. If you can indeed trade non-Gen. V Pokémon into the game before meeting the Elite Four for the first time, this could be a useful service and will serve as the reason I want to catch everything I can.

Cyclone

Spinosaurus
July 14th, 2012, 02:27 PM
The game seems to have been rushed, however, and is way too linear compared to the average Pokémon game.
I knew I forgot something. This is definitely something that turned me off.

Linearity in a Pokemon game is definitely a big negative. Be it someone who just wants to pick up and play, someone who likes the series, a big "casual" fan, or a very dedicated "hardcore" fan, the thing that makes the Pokemon game so memorable is the big sense of exploration, finding miss-able areas and discovering new Pokemon, and when that's lacking it could really give a bad impression on the player. I really miss some things like the Old Chateau and Safari Zones. B/W, as a Pokemon game, really suffers from this. It's really too straight-forward, and you can't really miss any Pokemon that are available in the main game.

Though I wouldn't call the game rushed, more like poorly design. And the reason to the linearity is the badly thought region.

Pokedra
July 14th, 2012, 05:34 PM
I always felt it was more linear due to the story, like it makes no sense for you to able to go anywhere when the story needs to progress. I didn't mind the linearity as much but I would've preferred more freedom towards the end. I feel they sacrificed freedom for story which makes the main story better but the exploration aspect suffers from this. New graphics were nice but the pixellated Pokemon in battle sprites were pretty ew. New Pokemon weren't to my taste, there were such pretty cool ones (Serperior, Kyurem and Hydregion) but generally this has been my least favourite generation of Pokemon.

Pros
- Better characters (N, Cheren)
- Better story
- New graphics / certain battle mechanics
- Memorable tunes

Cons
- Post-game is inferior to previous games.
- Less exploration
- Only Unova Pokemon until post game.

I feel 36/40 is a reasonable score for it, great not nowhere near a 40/40.

pokemontrainer_samuel
July 15th, 2012, 04:13 AM
No it did not. Contrary to popular beliefs, I feel like this game was the least different from the last one, in such it did not introduce something new that is a major factor to how the game is played compared to the other gens. Gen 2 introduced new types and balanced the whole typing, it's very different from Gen 1. Gen 3 introduced EVs, IVs and natures, and thus the games are vastly different from the last. Gen IV introduced the physical/special split which is actually a very big change.

But what has B/W introduced? Dream World and third abilities? That's not too big. Triple Battle and Rotation? ...nah. It's just gen IV on crack with weather.

Of course the whole thing is arguably different to a (I hate this word) "casual"'s point of view. But to a lot, it narrows down to the game's design. I felt B/W, as a whole, had terrible decisions in its design. Unova is a boring region, that feels completely empty, dull and especially short. (There are exceptions of course but it doesn't change anything.) The region design just isn't as memorable and limited to explore. B/W are the only games in which I completely put down and haven't turned back on (sold it actually) because of the very lackluster post-game.
I also don't see the praise in its story, this whole dark theme didn't do it justice, especially not in a main Pokemon theme that follows the past game's simplicity and audience. Pokemon Colosseum/XD did it right with shadow Pokemon, loveable characters and overall visuals. (However, it was targeted at an older audience. But B/W wasn't.)
The characters are also boring and uninspired for the most part in terms of design and characteristics. It's not like the main games had a lot of interesting and lovable characters, but I feel B/W as a whole was a step down in that department, especially with the new evil team and ugh N. (Luckily B/W2 fixes that with the new gym leaders and especially Corless.)

One thing it did right in the designs is the new Pokemon. I complained about the design of the game, but actually praised the Pokemon? Oh god!
In all seriousness however, the new Pokemon was definitely a step up from gen 4, as the designs were superb and inspired, even if their overall abilities gameplay-wise is vey questionable. (The new Pokemon really ruined the metagame for a lot of people.) HOWEVER, there is a huge problem in those new Pokemon in that they're the only ones available throughout the whole main game. That is just a poor decision, as it loses the overall variety in making your teams and it just feels limited. A lot of people would love using the old Pokemon should they dislike the new ones. (I don't support nostalgia-glass and those people, but you have to give them a bone if you want them to bite.) If this is their idea of a reboot, then it's just a poor attempt.
Fortunately, again, B/W2 fixes most of these. However, with the bad taste that B/W left to me, I'm not sure I am really interested in it.

Another thing is that what makes it deserve the higher score from other, arguably better, Pokemon games? Simplicity is a HUGE factor, as mentioned here, because a huge amount of people just pick-up the game and beat it fast, without spending too much time with raising their Pokemon and doing the post-game aspects. This is also huge for kids because it's not too complex for them. (D/P/Pt...)

Of course this is purely my opinion, and are not factual points whatsoever. I just feel B/W changed what shouldn't have been changed and kept what shouldn't have been kept from the main Pokemon games.

Graphically, it looks horrible. If you want a DS game with better art styles and visuals then Hotel Dusk, Warioware, Okamiden, Ghost Trick, Yoshi's Island DS, Rhythm Heaven and Metroid Prime: Hunters are just a few examples of better games visually and graphically (and generally...well, imo :P). If you want RPGs exclusively, Final Fantasy 4 DS and The World Ends With You are the first to come to mind.

They should have kept with HG/SS's style, but maybe it'd make B/W look too similar.
BW actually introduced the new exp system which supposedly makes it more challenging for players. I doubt many like it though.

What you said about the game design is quite true though. There's not much to do in Unova. Well, yes, initially many new things will marvel you in your first visit, but after some time you wouldn't really bother noticing it anymore. But other than the Johto series (where you get to travel to Kanto) and FR/LG (Sevii Islands), there's really nothing much in the map of other games. You just visit the same place and battle the same people every day.

Judging by the few games you stated up there, I understand why you complain about the graphics in BW. The following just an assumption, but it sounds like you're used to 2D and cute cartoon gaming with a one dimension camera angle that playing a game like BW which has different camera angles probably made your head spin. Talk about nostalgia glass people. It's laughable that you claim games like Warioware and Yoshi's Island DS is suppose to have better graphics than Pokemon. Of course, Yoshi's Island is less pixelated than pokemon (if I remember correctly), but it's graphics are no different from any other DS games.

Basically I don't really see why everyone is complaining about the post game of BW. It's the only game which I have been able to pick up every day to play for a few hours, although what I play is very routined: Tuck in my pokemon, play in the dream world, wake up pokemon, fight in the stadiums and royal unova and game freak to train the new pokemon I got from the dream world, and if I still have time, trade in the GTS or play random matchup battles. This alone has kept my other DS games and my PSP at bay (don't really have any time to play them). But I guess if you don't play DW and don't have access to the GTS or already completed your pokedex, there's really nothing to do in the game. But still, we should remember, the only pokemon main series game that actually had a proper post game is the Johto series. R/B/G/Y practically ended after beating E4 and catching Mewtwo, R/S is not much better, and Sevii Islands wasn't something big. I don't know about D/P/Pt though, because I didn't complete it (found it hard to play D/P/Pt after playing HG/SS and BW). But comparing to other pokemon games (with the exception of the Johto games), BW has an okay post game, although it's all about filling your National Dex and searching for the sages (which seems like a lousy mini game anyway).

curiousnathan
July 15th, 2012, 05:12 AM
I found the BW to be just touching good on their best. For me, I don't really like the Gen V pokemon much, and being picky, I really can only do 2 re-runs before all the pokes I do like run out and the game becomes boring. The extreme lack of post-game content compared to other games such as HGSS really lowered by experience as a whole, and the repetition of the Elite Four and Gym Leader types (Ice 7th gym, Dragon 8th Gym | Dark, Psychic, Fighting and Ghost) really made those 'dramatic, ultimate' battles really tedious and stale. Personally, it's perfect score is far from earnt. :<

Spinosaurus
July 15th, 2012, 08:32 AM
Judging by the few games you stated up there, I understand why you complain about the graphics in BW. The following just an assumption, but it sounds like you're used to 2D and cute cartoon gaming with a one dimension camera angle that playing a game like BW which has different camera angles probably made your head spin. Talk about nostalgia glass people. It's laughable that you claim games like Warioware and Yoshi's Island DS is suppose to have better graphics than Pokemon. Of course, Yoshi's Island is less pixelated than pokemon (if I remember correctly), but it's graphics are no different from any other DS games.

Yet I still listed games like Metroid Prime Hunter, Okamiden and Final Fantasy IV DS.
Also when I talk about graphics, I also consider the overall visuals and art styles, hence my reasoning to include Warioware and Yoshi's Island. These games are absolute eye candy compared to B/W.

But if we're talking graphics exclusively though, then B/W just feels completely pixelated to me. It doesn't spin my head, it's just ugly.
I mean look at these:
http://static.pici.se/pictures/QLpWJPNKK.jpghttp://static.pici.se/pictures/YgtJZDzGS.jpghttp://static.pici.se/pictures/vuHQlSBxM.jpg

I don't think it's the camera angles. I can still play Mario 64 DS to this day, a game with horrible camera, and it's just fine for me.


Also the new EXP system doesn't really change the battle system in itself, and it doesn't affect the metagame.

pokemontrainer_samuel
July 16th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Yet I still listed games like Metroid Prime Hunter, Okamiden and Final Fantasy IV DS.
Also when I talk about graphics, I also consider the overall visuals and art styles, hence my reasoning to include Warioware and Yoshi's Island. These games are absolute eye candy compared to B/W.

But if we're talking graphics exclusively though, then B/W just feels completely pixelated to me. It doesn't spin my head, it's just ugly.
I mean look at these:
http://static.pici.se/pictures/QLpWJPNKK.jpghttp://static.pici.se/pictures/YgtJZDzGS.jpghttp://static.pici.se/pictures/vuHQlSBxM.jpg

I don't think it's the camera angles. I can still play Mario 64 DS to this day, a game with horrible camera, and it's just fine for me.


Also the new EXP system doesn't really change the battle system in itself, and it doesn't affect the metagame.
Lol I've never played Metroid Prime Hunter, but since you mentioned it again I went to google it a few seconds back and you're right, it has really wonderful graphics. I'm kinda considering if I should get it to play. Okamiden is too manga-ey for me to say it's graphics are nice, while FFIV is pixelated FYI.

Ah, okay, so you were looking for a change in the metagame. I guess rotation battles are the closest thing to be considered a change in the metagame. But since we hardly have to take part in rotation games, I think it cannot be counted as metagame change because it is not significant enough to affect the entire game.

MirandaxPikachu
July 18th, 2012, 03:29 AM
Well, I liked Pokemon Black and White, the story was cool, new and creative, there are a lot of mysteries in the game, like who is N, what is N's full name?
The region is also really big, and pretty, great detail, like, take Castelia City, finally a REAL big town, I don't mean that B&W is better than the original games, I just like the fact that the characters seem more realistic, and not small and chubby, the children are really smaller , and the 3D effects where great, and I actually liked some of the Pokemon, the starters are cool, the only Pokemon I really didn't like was Garbardor or something? But that is just my opinion, I play'd B&W like a hundred times haha! So, I really liked it, and I am looking forward to B&W2. :)

Magic
July 18th, 2012, 03:47 AM
I think it's score really depends on what you compare it to.

If you compare it to RPG games in general, then you could point out its story is poor (by general standards) but gameplay is simple and easy to use.

If you compare to Pokémon games though, then the story is excellent and it's actually the features that let it down.

Overall I would say it's not worthy of its perfect 10s, I would say 32-36 is a more realistic score, for a game that tries to be more than 'just a Pokémon game' and rebooting the series in the wrong direction. But hey, it was very overhyped and the score probably came from some of the new Pokémon, rather than the game as a whole.

Shankathon
July 19th, 2012, 06:10 AM
No B/W don't deserve 40/40. They were good but some things were needed, such as a better end game, story and pal park, very useful for when you want those event pokemon you got in the gba's. I would give them a 32/40 at best and a 27/40 at very least.

Master_Z
July 19th, 2012, 06:33 AM
I didn't like Black/White. They deserve maybe a 30/40. Here are some reasons why:

-Pokemon designs are horrid. Sometimes I'll restart the game multiple times or use a starter from another region because I just can't bear looking at them.

-The Pokemon battle sprites are extremely pixelated. It's not taking advantage of the system and the result is ugly.

-The region feels "off" to me. Way too many bridges, and the angles screw up as you walk around town. It's just way too difficult to navigate; it's like their focus was on making the most complex cities this time.

-The plot is lackluster. With it being 2012, I feel they could have went with CGI or cutscenes. Having Ghetsis's 2D sprite having a dialogue bubble talking about freeing Pokemon dumbs down the experience. N's upbringing was interesting, but they never expanded upon it.

-It should have been a launch title on 3DS. This is purely opinionated, but Black/White were a cash cow for Game Freak. Simple as that. They could have made it as bad as possible, but as it was perceived as a refresh and there are now going on 150+ million DS owners, it was the right move financially. But it still remains hindered, and if we see Ruby/Sapphire remakes or Gen 6 relatively soon, suddenly Black/White are obsolete and will have to use trade machines instead of normal trading methods.

Rhea2x5g
July 19th, 2012, 12:58 PM
They deserved the score. I enjoyed the story of the game and the new Pokemon. I think it got a good score because of the 3D Bridge and some other 3D things like the battles. I enjoyed the game by the way. Leveling up in this game is super easy compared to the other Pokemon generation games! :)

Pokemon_Trainer_Nick
July 20th, 2012, 05:47 AM
To be perfectly honest, I dont think the game is bad. It is so dynamic and fun, and I think it is perfect.

NeoPsychedelia
July 20th, 2012, 04:30 PM
I loved the new atmosphere that Black & White offers. I think the game could have been a little more fluid with the difficulty level (the gym leaders only have three Pokémon, and the Elite Four members are mostly pushovers, but Ghetsis is downright difficult), but otherwise, I was perfectly satisfied.

Olliee
July 21st, 2012, 11:50 AM
It's very difficult to judge... I want to say they deserve the 40/40 because generally the game was very good, the graphics were good, the content was fun.. but I guess my words don't say 'Perfect' like the score claims.

My response - 'Good but not perfect'

Altairis
July 21st, 2012, 12:53 PM
I liked the game, but I wouldn't have given it a 40/40. Mainly the design of the region (linearity), graphics (personally I liked the older style better... for example the backsprites were grainy and sometimes they came off as... clunky to me... eh), some of the Pokemon were odd IMO... all of those would hinder it from getting a 40/40 from me, but it was still a great game nonetheless.

ForeverFlygon
July 21st, 2012, 06:03 PM
*sigh* Oh my, biased nostalgics? Haters gonna hate, I suppose.
As someone who started in gen II, the "ideal" games, I will say that gen V is climbing up to be a favorite generation, next to gen III. The pokemon were quite well thought out, and though the region was small, it is dramatically expanded in BW2. As for difficulty, it was somewhat easy for a seasoned gamer, but the reusable TMs and high stat pokemon could contribute to this. Also on difficulty, in the after game, all the trainer's pokemon shoot up 10 levels, the last battle you had was with a Lv. 54 rampaging murderlizard. So, I see absolutely no problem with Gen V.

Cyclone
July 21st, 2012, 07:00 PM
Also on difficulty, in the after game, all the trainer's pokemon shoot up 10 levels, the last battle you had was with a Lv. 54 rampaging murderlizard.
Thank you kindly for making me literally LOL for a few seconds there. :D

Now that I'm doing the prep. work, I think I can somewhat see why they increased the entire area by 6 (in this case) levels. They presume you've done the prep. work and want to make it a challenge coming out of the battle with Ghetsis. There is no increase in difficulty throughout the entire area going around from 11-15 or vice versa. It's because you can start on either side. If they were to make 15 insanely difficult, they'd have to keep the blocker to the bridge from 16 until you got there from the other side and triggered an event, whereby you could hear that the bridge is finally open. They don't do that.

Slightly off-topic, it won't be long now before I tackle the Elite Four. My Zoroark is up to snuff now at Lv.50. It's time to breed the Archen I've promised someone then fully prep. the Pokémon I like a little more while using them to help evolve the ones I still need before finishing Victory Road. Taking Flash and Strength users just in case. Believe it or not, I had fun at some times doing this, too, so I really don't see a need at all for criticism of at least the maingame.

Cyclone

pokemontrainer_samuel
July 21st, 2012, 07:36 PM
*sigh* Oh my, biased nostalgics? Haters gonna hate, I suppose.
As someone who started in gen II, the "ideal" games, I will say that gen V is climbing up to be a favorite generation, next to gen III. The pokemon were quite well thought out, and though the region was small, it is dramatically expanded in BW2. As for difficulty, it was somewhat easy for a seasoned gamer, but the reusable TMs and high stat pokemon could contribute to this. Also on difficulty, in the after game, all the trainer's pokemon shoot up 10 levels, the last battle you had was with a Lv. 54 rampaging murderlizard. So, I see absolutely no problem with Gen V.
Reusable TMs aren't much of a problem if you don't use them lol. I've hardly use TMs in the past because they break after one use and I like collecting TMs, so it's kind of a habit for me not to use TMs. I don't find it any harder not using TMs though.

The increase in 10 levels of pokemon during post game was quite a good move from my point of view. It did raise the overall difficulty level of the game, although it's in post game. But it's very much easier to train pokemon up to L100 due to this :)

Slightly off topic in reply to Cyclone's slightly off topic statement:
Do you realize that there's a timer timing how long it takes you to reach Black City/White Forest? The longer you take to reach that place, the less stuff you got there. I don't know how long have you been playing, but it's best to try to make haste. I reached Black City in less than a week I think (yea, even though I was grinding) because I was playing for like more than 10 hours a day.

Mr Cat Dog
July 22nd, 2012, 12:20 PM
The only series of games I'd even think of giving a 40/40 to would be HGSS. And even then, they're not perfect by any means. If I was an individual Famitsu marker - i.e. marking it out of 10 - I'd probably give BW a 6 or 7. I liked the games well enough, but they're nowhere near my favourite Pokemon games, let alone near my favourite video games of all time. To me, a 10 should be appropriately hard to obtain. Only the very best games should get it and, unfortunately, I don't think BW cut the mustard. Sorry, BW.

theSyko501
July 22nd, 2012, 01:17 PM
i would have given B/W B2/W2 a 39/40 ONLY because pokemon dident follow you like in Hg/SS. Some people say it is such a minor feature but for me it was rely exciting kinda made you fell like you were actuly traveling with your pokemon and not just walking around the region alone till it is battle time. Also partly a nostalgic feeling from pokemon yellow where pikachu fallowed you(witch was my first pokemon game)

Cyclone
July 22nd, 2012, 02:27 PM
i would have given B/W B2/W2 a 39/40 ONLY because pokemon dident follow you like in Hg/SS. Some people say it is such a minor feature but for me it was rely exciting kinda made you fell like you were actuly traveling with your pokemon and not just walking around the region alone till it is battle time. Also partly a nostalgic feeling from pokemon yellow where pikachu fallowed you(witch was my first pokemon game)
You would subtract a point because they didn't make 156 mini-mes to follow your player around?

Your standards are inexplicably high. Maybe they tried it and had problems, thus didn't use it. Maybe they decided it was not needed; they did it in the prior game and it's repetitive (but then so is the concept of the game). Maybe they're saving it as a feature of a "grey" (i.e. third game of gen.) game not yet announced.

Cyclone

HenkieDePost
July 22nd, 2012, 03:26 PM
If I had given Black and White a 40/40? No. Just no.

I will probably get alot of rage from you guys because of what I am going to say below, and that's ok, because everyone can has his/her own opinion. But my opinion is that black and white are by far the weakest pokemon games I have EVER played. I even enjoy pokemon Snap more on my N64.

I have my reasons for this, which I will explain of course. You don't have to agree with me, and that's allright, but I will post them anyway.

First of all, the new generation of pokemon is the weakest pokemon I have seen so far. I have played pokemon since Red and Blue came out in my country, and I have seen them all. I know almost every pokemon (if not every) from gen 1 till 4. Generation 1 2 and 3 were in my opinion the best generations. It is hard to explain, but the feeling I had with those pokemon is far stronger than with Generation 5. Where generation 4 was already going downhill, 5 was even worse.

It just seems that pokemon is getting more and more girly and childish. Of course, you can call me an oversised child because I still play these games, but this is not how I mean it. It is just like the series. The anime series in Kanto, Johto and also Hoenn were just more hardcore compared to the one in sinnoh, and it is the same with the pokemon. The pokemon from the first generation are alot cooler and stronger looking than the more fluffy heartnosed (yes I am talking about the zubatwannabe pokemon) pokemon of black.

I also don't like the characters. Why is it so hard for them to make normal characters? Why do they have to go with crazy hair and clothing, blue flowerpot hair (team galactic from diamond as an example, I forgot the name of the team in Black) and silly names? Can't we just have the normal guy with the cap like soul silver has? This is just a minor thing, but the fact that the characters in the newer games are just like the pokemon are starting to look childisher and childisher just ruins the immersion for me. Why can't we just have a badass team anymore which has normal hair and cool outfits.. :P

I also didn't really have the urge to continue playing. I have played almost every pokemon game so far which went by this principle. Green Blue Red Yellow Gold Silver Sapphire Ruby Emerald Firered Diamond and HeartGold, and I all finished them on my first try. They really gave me that feeling that I had to continue playing, that it was fun to continue playing. In this game I really missed that feeling. I quitted the game after the fifth gym. It felt more like a chore than that I was really enjoying it.

After I played the game I started talking with my friends about it. Yes, I'm an adult and almost everyone I know still play pokemon ;p. It seemed that everyone who bought this game was dissapointed with it. It just not felt right. I have over 400 hours on emerald, 200 on Silver and 100 on Diamond, but in this game I couldn't even reach 20, and so did my friends. Most of them quitted the game around the fifth or sixth gym.

I really want to enjoy this one, but somehow I can't. I hope black and white 2 is better. I love the new combat system but the new pokemon and other things which destroy the immersion for me are just destroying the experience for me. it is a shame, because this generation is about to become the first generation which I have never finished.

CONCLUSION:
In my honest opinion, I would give this game a 25/40. At most a 30/40. I know the reasons here are not the best reasons, but it is late here and it is easier to say them all out than to type them silently because people try to sleep. ^^. Instead of this game, Emerald and HeartGold/Soulsilver deserved the perfect score.

Emerald is the best allrounder, while HeartGold and Soulsilver are exactly the epic remakes I wanted for one of the best pokemon I have ever played.

I will try to add more arguments and defend this post tomorrow, I am going to bed now. BTW, I'm Dutch so if there are any grammar error's, Im sorry ;p

Let the raging on this post begin.

Forever
July 22nd, 2012, 05:44 PM
First of all, the new generation of pokemon is the weakest pokemon I have seen so far. I have played pokemon since Red and Blue came out in my country, and I have seen them all. I know almost every pokemon (if not every) from gen 1 till 4. Generation 1 2 and 3 were in my opinion the best generations. It is hard to explain, but the feeling I had with those pokemon is far stronger than with Generation 5. Where generation 4 was already going downhill, 5 was even worse.

Actually, gen 5 Pokemon are pretty strong. Just look at OU. There are around 13 from Kanto, however, from Unova:

Conkeldurr
Haxorus
Hydreigon
Jellicent
Keldeo
Landorus
Meloetta
Meloetta-P
Terrakion
Tornadus
Virizion
Volcarona

While that is the current B2W2 standing, it is true that Keldeo and Meloetta do exist within B/W, so they count to me.

Now if you look at ubers, mostly gen 4/5 Pokemon. Actually, if you include gen 4 Pokemon compared to gen 2 Pokemon in OU too, it'd be much higher I think.

So really... in terms of strength these guys are pretty even with the rest, if not better for the most part, given all the firsts in power and w/e they've achieved. While it's true the starters are in lower tiers than the starters of the other generations it shouldn't really indicate that much imo.

GolurkIsDaBomb
July 22nd, 2012, 07:55 PM
Reeeeaaaally long so...
SPOILER! :D


Yes. Black and white definitely deserved their perfect score. First of all, the pokemon. Not only did these games release a staggering 156 new pokemon, I found the Unova pokes to be really innovative and refreshing. While some may hate on their designs, I really liked the look of all the pokemon and the concepts. It was a fresh new take, and each pokemon felt like it had been worked on for a long time with a lot of thought put into it. Not only that, but the selection of pokemon was really interesting. In each area, I felt like it WAS a new area, since each route (and even the bridges) had different pokemon instead of rattatta, pidgey, oddish, ekans (no hate, but just sayin' :/) And I really enjoyed not seeing all the old pokemon. Don't get me wrong, I love them, but half the reason I never wanted to use a machop or a zubat because it was ALWAYS there. Even though woobat is the Unova's version of zubat, it didn't bother me when I encountered it since it held it's own with an interesting look and typing. I also loved how the sprites moved constantly, it really adds to the game and makes you feel like you are the MC. Next, the region. While Unova was fairly straightforward in terms of where to go, I found that nice. Backtracking is seriously annoying (especially without fly or surf) not only is it great for first time players but the solidarity of the path really made me feel like it was an adventure, that I was far from home. Cities actually looked like cities, and each city or town was really recognizable with a cool amount of optional things to do. It felt realistic that almost all of the cities had, well, purposes. In the other pokemon games, most of the cities are just kinda there. In black and white, every city has a purpose (driftveil is exporting, nimbasa is entertainment, castelia business, mistralton airport, Nacrene is museum/art etc) I liked the backstory behind the region and found it beautifully designed (SEASONS! - col changes in accesable pokemon and places) with great music. I really liked how you could sometimes add in additional tracks (striaton, nacrene) it was a small feature that I really enjoyed. Last is plot. For once, a really awesome plot! Sure it has the same staples as all other pokemon games, evil team and such. But this time, the evil team was an essential piece of the game rather than just, showing up from time to time. Their motive (or original motive, that is) was fresh and really interesting. It was a smart move on Gamefreak's part to establish that pokemon isn't cockfighting. (at least not meant to be) The personal struggle the main antagonist had was really interesting, and also I enjoyed how the main baddy wasn't, "Fufufufufu I'm evil." Even the real baddy of the evil team wasn't evil til the very end, a nice plot twist as well (even if I may have seen it coming) I liked how my best friends actually seemed that way. I liked how instead of just being my rival who would pop out of nowhere and shout, "Leeeeeeeeeet's battle!" that they acted like human beings do in the real world. Each one had their own conflict with themselves, both about strength and dreams (which ties in really nicely with the evil team's mantra) They each had legitimate reasons for challenging me and ended up being somewhat intimidating opponents. Bianca's subplot with her father was great. It was nice how the professer wasn't just part of the pregame skiiiiiiiip and that she returned along my journey. And the gym leaders rocked because they were actual people too. They had outside jobs and lives and were an important part of the game. So yes, overall these games deserve a 100% since they built upon the foundation already set out for them and improved it ten-fold. Phew. That was a lot of writing!

pokemontrainer_samuel
July 23rd, 2012, 04:59 AM
I also don't like the characters. Why is it so hard for them to make normal characters? Why do they have to go with crazy hair and clothing, blue flowerpot hair (team galactic from diamond as an example, I forgot the name of the team in Black) and silly names? Can't we just have the normal guy with the cap like soul silver has? This is just a minor thing, but the fact that the characters in the newer games are just like the pokemon are starting to look childisher and childisher just ruins the immersion for me. Why can't we just have a badass team anymore which has normal hair and cool outfits.. :P
This is actually the best and most logical point I ever heard from people who dislike BW. I totally agree they should have less weird looking people in weird costumes.

HenkieDePost
July 23rd, 2012, 05:44 AM
Actually, gen 5 Pokemon are pretty strong. Just look at OU. There are around 13 from Kanto, however, from Unova:

Conkeldurr
Haxorus
Hydreigon
Jellicent
Keldeo
Landorus
Meloetta
Meloetta-P
Terrakion
Tornadus
Virizion
Volcarona

While that is the current B2W2 standing, it is true that Keldeo and Meloetta do exist within B/W, so they count to me.

Now if you look at ubers, mostly gen 4/5 Pokemon. Actually, if you include gen 4 Pokemon compared to gen 2 Pokemon in OU too, it'd be much higher I think.

So really... in terms of strength these guys are pretty even with the rest, if not better for the most part, given all the firsts in power and w/e they've achieved. While it's true the starters are in lower tiers than the starters of the other generations it shouldn't really indicate that much imo.

I understand your point, but I didn't mean weak in the form of low strength, but in the form of design. The new pokemon just don't appeal to me. There are some pokemon which are pretty cool, I have to agree with that. But the majority is just too fluffly and too girlish for me. I only catch pokemon which I like, and not because I need them.

In this game I just have to catch pokemon which I don't like, because almost the only pokemon so far which I have encountered and doesn't evolve in something fluffly and girlish are roggenrola and sandile.

Many people here seem to disagree with me on this point, and they think that this generation is wonderfully designed. But I have played pokemon since the beginning, and I just can't get to like even half of them it seems...

Cyclone
July 23rd, 2012, 06:33 AM
While that is the current B2W2 standing, it is true that Keldeo and Meloetta do exist within B/W, so they count to me.
And Genesect, though not part of this discussion. They were probably hidden for later gifts around movie time on purpose without knowing B2/W2 was coming at the time.

I know of Keldeo and can't wait to get it. I thought it learned "Secret Sword" in B/W, but reading the Bulbapedia article now it only shows the move and the resulting Resolute Forme in B2/W2. A shame, really; having that event at the Moor of Icirrus would have made perfect - PERFECT - sense.

Cyclone

Atomic Pirate
July 23rd, 2012, 09:10 AM
This is actually the best and most logical point I ever heard from people who dislike BW. I totally agree they should have less weird looking people in weird costumes.

Yeah, good point. Really good point, Seriously, how did we go from this:
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/7/7b/HeartGold_SoulSilver_Brock.png/185px-HeartGold_SoulSilver_Brock.png

To this?:
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/e/e2/Black_2_White_2_Marlon.png/200px-Black_2_White_2_Marlon.png

It also seems that, with the general style of the in-game trainers, Pokemon is going towards a generic, huge-eyed "animu" weeaboo style of anatomy. Sure, it always was anime-based, but the eyes just keep getting bigger and bigger with each region, with little reason as to why.

Forever
July 23rd, 2012, 09:19 AM
And Genesect, though not part of this discussion. They were probably hidden for later gifts around movie time on purpose without knowing B2/W2 was coming at the time.

I know of Keldeo and can't wait to get it. I thought it learned "Secret Sword" in B/W, but reading the Bulbapedia article now it only shows the move and the resulting Resolute Forme in B2/W2. A shame, really; having that event at the Moor of Icirrus would have made perfect - PERFECT - sense.

Cyclone

Yeah but Genesect is unreleased and not in OU :(

Unfortunate! But yeah I don't think that really can detract from the perfect score. XD; B/W is perfect without Keldeo.

I understand your point, but I didn't mean weak in the form of low strength, but in the form of design. The new pokemon just don't appeal to me. There are some pokemon which are pretty cool, I have to agree with that. But the majority is just too fluffly and too girlish for me. I only catch pokemon which I like, and not because I need them.

In this game I just have to catch pokemon which I don't like, because almost the only pokemon so far which I have encountered and doesn't evolve in something fluffly and girlish are roggenrola and sandile.

Many people here seem to disagree with me on this point, and they think that this generation is wonderfully designed. But I have played pokemon since the beginning, and I just can't get to like even half of them it seems...

Yeah idk, you have Darmanitan, Genesect, Cobalion, Terrakion, idk those don't seem very fluffy and those are off the top of my head. I think the Pokemon just make B/W better!

Yeah, good point. Really good point, Seriously, how did we go from this:

To this?:
It also seems that, with the general style of the in-game trainers, Pokemon is going towards a generic, huge-eyed "animu" weeaboo style of anatomy. Sure, it always was anime-based, but the eyes just keep getting bigger and bigger with each region, with little reason as to why.

One little thing while I'm here - when you're discussing B/W gym leader designs, you should use actual B/W characters and not B2W2 characters since we're not B2W2 forum. :(

GolurkIsDaBomb
July 23rd, 2012, 10:43 AM
This is actually the best and most logical point I ever heard from people who dislike BW. I totally agree they should have less weird looking people in weird costumes.

What about Sabrina in RBY? Or Claire in GSC? And I think their costumes make the most sense of any evil team (in terms of being weird) The point they're trying to make is that they are the heroes, being valiant and trying to save the pokemon. That's what knights are: valiant people who try to save other people. Plus since they have a king and a castle, at least it's relevant...

As for "fluffy and girly" pokemon designs, what about clefairy, jigglypuff, chansey, mr. mime, caterpie, lapras, nidoqueen, ditto, vaporeon etc.

As for black and white, what about bisharp, amoongus, accelgor, escavalier, emboar, galvantula, ferrothorn, golurk, haxorus, hydreigon, durant, etc

The point I'm trying to make is that every generation has it's cute pokemon and it's cool pokemon, it's scary pokemon and it's powerful pokemon. That's a big part of what makes the pokemon games so appealing.

HenkieDePost
July 24th, 2012, 12:33 AM
What about Sabrina in RBY? Or Claire in GSC? And I think their costumes make the most sense of any evil team (in terms of being weird) The point they're trying to make is that they are the heroes, being valiant and trying to save the pokemon. That's what knights are: valiant people who try to save other people. Plus since they have a king and a castle, at least it's relevant...

As for "fluffy and girly" pokemon designs, what about clefairy, jigglypuff, chansey, mr. mime, caterpie, lapras, nidoqueen, ditto, vaporeon etc.

As for black and white, what about bisharp, amoongus, accelgor, escavalier, emboar, galvantula, ferrothorn, golurk, haxorus, hydreigon, durant, etc

The point I'm trying to make is that every generation has it's cute pokemon and it's cool pokemon, it's scary pokemon and it's powerful pokemon. That's a big part of what makes the pokemon games so appealing.

I understand your point and you are absolutely right, but this is more of a personal complaint for me. pokemon like clefairy, caterpie, lapras, nidoqueen and vaporeon are not the coolest pokemon indeed (except for nidoqueen, which still is pretty cool), but I still like them. They may not be cool, but they are not too childish either. They are somewhat in the middle.

But if you take the zubat-impostor from black and white as an example, and you even just only look at his nose you think: NO. Atleast I think that way.

There are indeed some very nice pokemon which I really like, if you have played pokemon conquest for an example, I really like Nobunaga his Dragon-Electric type pokemon. I also like Sandile and his evolution which is also pretty good, and I am sure that I would find other pokemons which I can really enjoy.

But the point still is that I have to search for the pokemon which I can enjoy, while the pokemon which I really don't like (like those ape pokemon pansear or something and their evolutions) are everywhere yust doesn't do well for the gameplay experience for me.

Again, I understand your point and I agree with you, but this is just a matter of personal preference.

pokemontrainer_samuel
July 24th, 2012, 06:29 AM
I understand your point and you are absolutely right, but this is more of a personal complaint for me. pokemon like clefairy, caterpie, lapras, nidoqueen and vaporeon are not the coolest pokemon indeed (except for nidoqueen, which still is pretty cool), but I still like them. They may not be cool, but they are not too childish either. They are somewhat in the middle.

But if you take the zubat-impostor from black and white as an example, and you even just only look at his nose you think: NO. Atleast I think that way.

There are indeed some very nice pokemon which I really like, if you have played pokemon conquest for an example, I really like Nobunaga his Dragon-Electric type pokemon. I also like Sandile and his evolution which is also pretty good, and I am sure that I would find other pokemons which I can really enjoy.

But the point still is that I have to search for the pokemon which I can enjoy, while the pokemon which I really don't like (like those ape pokemon pansear or something and their evolutions) are everywhere yust doesn't do well for the gameplay experience for me.

Again, I understand your point and I agree with you, but this is just a matter of personal preference.
Do you know that the number of pokemon in G5 that is fluffy and girlish according to you is 2? Because the only example you gave is the Swoobat line. You forgot to name so many other "girlish" pokemon. Let me name them for you:
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/evo/500.pnghttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/9/99/503.pnghttp://pokemon.marriland.com/images/bw/sprites/front/norm/508_stoutland_front_norm.pnghttp://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/evo/523.pnghttp://pokemon.marriland.com/images/bw/sprites/front/norm/530_excadrill_front_norm.png
http://pokemon.marriland.com/images/bw/sprites/front/norm/534_conkeldurr_front_norm.pnghttp://pokemon.marriland.com/images/bw/sprites/front/norm/537_seismitoad_front_norm.pnghttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/f/f3/545.pnghttp://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/pokemon/550-b.pnghttp://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/584.png
http://pokemon.marriland.com/images/bw/sprites/front/norm/565_carracosta_front_norm.pnghttp://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/539748-Links_spirit_23/748/34/galvantula_display.pnghttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/5/58/604.pnghttp://pokemon.marriland.com/images/bw/sprites/front/norm/612_haxorus_front_norm.pnghttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/4/42/621.png

Ah, girlish aren't they? XD

Cyclone
July 24th, 2012, 08:25 AM
You forgot Archen.

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/c/cf/Spr_5b_567.png

Ah, girlish as well.

Cyclone

HenkieDePost
July 25th, 2012, 04:07 AM
Do you know that the number of pokemon in G5 that is fluffy and girlish according to you is 2? Because the only example you gave is the Swoobat line. You forgot to name so many other "girlish" pokemon. Let me name them for you:

Ah, girlish aren't they? XD

Lol, thanks for searching them all up. They look REALLY, REALLY girlish. XD
But seriously, this was just too easy for you to do. I already told you guys that I stopped at the fifth gym. That was month's ago, and I don't know their names anymore. It is very easy to pick alot of legendary pokemon and say that they are hardcore while I can't even name the starting pokemon because I even don't like them.

By the way, Emboar isn't cool, if you look closer it is a clown set on fire. I really think it is a disgusting evolution. Snivy started of cool, but ended as some kind of girly snake. The wolf type pokemon you put in your pictures also isn't a good pick, does that pokemon look like epic to you? It does reminds me of a gen 3 pokemon, but I can't recall the name anymore... Anyway, it still looks pretty girly.

Take a look at the ape pokemon. pansear or something. The green one is the best of the three, although it still looks rubbish. The water type is HORRIBLE, and the fire type isn't so good as well. The zubat impostor is horrible, the water type starter is in the beginning ugly, Musharna is a misformed unborn baby or something, lilligant is just a remade Roselia, Jelliscent reminds me of the lakitu guy on a cloud in mario, but then the bad version of it.

Listen, again this is just an opinion. There are some pokemon which are pretty good, but if I would pick a random pokemon from your list and put it to a salamance, the salamance would always win when it comes to design in my opinion.

pokemontrainer_samuel
July 25th, 2012, 04:35 AM
Lol you're welcome. I have a lot of free time so at least it's something to occupy my time. Glad you liked it XD

I didn't know clowns in your place had orange faces and red eyes and tusks sticking out. Luckily I live in a place were clowns are happier or I'd have nightmares every night.

Although I agree that Salamence looks fierce and manly, but sadly, blue and red do not really go together, although I would agree that red+blue coloured pokemon is a much better looking than a shocking pink+kiwi green coloured pokemon. But we don't have any of those.

I thought you were talking about gen 5 pokemon being girlish, and not the cool factor, so I just showed you the girlishness of gen 5. But since you pulled in the cool factor after finding out they weren't that girlish and wanted to compare Salamence with one of the pokemon above, I'll say Samurott beats Salamence flat out in looks. Not that I dislike Salamence, I actually loved my Salamence a lot especially since he knew Hydro Pump at birth, but Samurott definitely looks cooler than him. And Samurott is a starter.

HenkieDePost
July 25th, 2012, 05:02 AM
Lol you're welcome. I have a lot of free time so at least it's something to occupy my time. Glad you liked it XD

I didn't know clowns in your place had orange faces and red eyes and tusks sticking out. Luckily I live in a place were clowns are happier or I'd have nightmares every night.

Although I agree that Salamence looks fierce and manly, but sadly, blue and red do not really go together, although I would agree that red+blue coloured pokemon is a much better looking than a shocking pink+kiwi green coloured pokemon. But we don't have any of those.

I thought you were talking about gen 5 pokemon being girlish, and not the cool factor, so I just showed you the girlishness of gen 5. But since you pulled in the cool factor after finding out they weren't that girlish and wanted to compare Salamence with one of the pokemon above, I'll say Samurott beats Salamence flat out in looks. Not that I dislike Salamence, I actually loved my Salamence a lot especially since he knew Hydro Pump at birth, but Samurott definitely looks cooler than him. And Samurott is a starter.

Before I begin my real post there is something you need to know. Clowns are always scary. In a poll made by smosh, more people were afraid of clowns than people were afraid of zombies. The fact that this clown was even put on fire and made very fat doesn't works well for his image. Emboar just wants childs to love him, but they are afraid of him because he's a clown. He must have a very sad life... :P

But now seriously: I putted in the cool factor because that was probably your opinion on the pokemon you listed. Of course I figured out that you called them girly while you picked the best pokemon of the list to make your point stronger, otherwise you would just have gone with that swoobat, or another pokemon which looks like nothing. So let's just pretend that those are your 'cool' pokemon of the game, and that is what I did, and will do in the post below.

I do agree that these are the better pokemon of the game (atleast some of them) But they are al evolutions, or dragon type, or legendary. I see almost no pokemon (except for the wolf kind pokemon) that you would find normally on a route. There are almost no 'normal' pokemon in this game that looks even a bit 'cool' to put in that list of yours.

And that is my point. You are showing me the exceptions. The exceptions are fine, but the majority still doesn't look like anything. And that is what I am trying to tell your from the start. A good game doesn't run on the exceptions, but on the majority. The fact that 99% of the normal pokemon on a route is not or 'normal' like a zubat or machop, or cool like a ryhorn or something like that is the problem with the game.

When I play pokemon, I only catch a pokemon which I want. Not because I need it, but because I want it. In every pokemon game that tactic worked just fine. In HG I have 15 pokemon at the moment, and I'm at the fifth gym. In B and W I had encountered 2 pokemon so far which I 'liked'. Sandile and my starter. The game issued me to catch pokemon which I don't like, because otherwise I couldn't even continue.

That is the problem with the game. The cool pokemon might be in it, but they are in it way too late. You only find them as evolutions (if you don't use helpsites like me you can never know that a ugly pokemon might change in something good or vice versa so you will probably never catch a pokemon which will become nice in the end), or as legendary, which you will only find at the end of the game, or as dragon pokemon which will also only come in the end of the game.

I hope this makes my point a little bit more clear to you.

Alas, it's a good thing you have so many free time :P I am also enjoying a vacation at the moment, so I haven't got a debate about anything the last few months. Thanks ;p

Forever
July 25th, 2012, 05:03 AM
You guys are getting a little too into the Pokemon designs side rather than the point of this, being about the perfect score. While a few posts of discussion are fine, it's kind of gone off-topic from that and just is discussing them in general in regards to if they're manly or not! Sooo, I'd like you guys to use this (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=270045) for that discussion - so you can just take the discussion over there, or if you feel the difference between too manly/girly is that thread worthy and different enough from that thread (although I do doubt it), you can continue there, but from now on I'll just be moving posts there. :( Just try to get back to the perfect score side of discussion and we'll be great!

zephyr6257
August 22nd, 2012, 04:36 AM
Nah. 40/40 is stretching it waaay too much. It's sure an improvement, having a decent storyline, great 3D sequences, and a whole bunch of new Pokémon. It does give you this nostalgic feel, like you're playing Pokémon Blue all over again, but vastly upgraded. But no game is perfect. Of course, not all of the new Pokémon were accepted by the community of pokefans (not meant as pokecommunity lol). And yeah, I sort of felt that once i finished the game, there was not much to do, (or rather, nothing much interesting.) I pretty much hope B/W 2 covers up for the little holes in black and white.