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View Full Version : Has Ash really had a powerhouse since Kanto?


NiallC
July 17th, 2012, 9:26 AM
Basically in Kanto Pikachu and Charizard were made out to be these "wow holy s**t they're amazing" pokemon with Muk, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Lapras and Pidgeotto being powerful Pokemon as well. The there was Butterfree, Tauros, Primeape and Kingler who were made out to be weak but alright at times.

Snorlax was expected to be powerful and is on the same sort of level as Squirtle/Bulbasaur etc.

In Johto none of his Pokemon were exactly trained too much and shown to be amazing gobsmacking Pokemon as he could still rely on Charizard most of the time.

In Hoenn I'd say Sceptile was probably the most powerful but he still didn't meet the Charizard/Pikachu standard and Glalie was meant to be the next most poewrful according to some conversations made in Sinnoh.

In Sinnoh Infernape was made out to be closest in terms of power and could possibly match Pikachu/Charizard but still not as good. Then there was Gible who probably would be powerhouse standard if he did actually evolve but he isn't so he is more of a lucky Pokemon for now.

Finally, in Unova Palpitoad is his powerhouse which is strange considering he isn't a starter. His team is probably the weakest he has yet considering the amount of Pokemon. Oshawott is too cocky to be made too powerful and Snivy is too confident her abilities now that I don't think she'll want to evolve and stay as she is, like Bulbasaur. Scraggy is a baby and probably will turn into the powerhouse of the team when the time comes but for now Palpitoad has that privilage. Pignite isn't strong but he just has to follow the footsteps of the fire types. Leavanny doesn't need much said whilst Unfezant is just that generic bird type. Boldore seems to be powerful but he just doesn't suit Ash's battling style of fast and strong. He is too defensive and relies on Sturdy to be strong. Palpitoad has been refered to his current powerhouse but with little character development it looks like he won't evolve and with Scraggy looking to be the new powerhouse then it just seems like he will slip into the background. Lastly Krokorok should be the powerhouse but I just think he'll probably be a bit of a flop really, I dunno I just think because it took too long for him to be caught that it seems wierd him becoming the powerhouse and it seems like Scraggy will.

But even then if you look at the powehouses since Kanto which is probably Heracross, Sceptile, Infernape and Palpitoad/Scraggy not a single one of them match upto the standard of Pikachu/Charizard and until he does he won't win the league. I think because now he has his experience and tactics meaning that he would probably win with a powerhouse in his team whereas if they don't give him one then he will always be at the disadvantage.

I think in terms of power for Ash it would go:
1. Charizard
2. Pikachu

3. Infernape
4. Sceptile

5. The rest of his Pokemon.

Do you reckon that the moment he gets a pokemon that matches the Charizard/Pikachu standard will be the time that he will win the league?

Perriechu
July 17th, 2012, 11:39 AM
I'd say for Unova, Krokorok is probably's his powerhouse tbh.

And no. Because he lost the Indigo League even with all of his powerhouse Pokemon. I don't see why he used Charizard when he had Muk, Tauros, Kingler etc. Anyway, Ash will win when he's gotten stronger which is a long way yet. Ash's team, like you said, is still quite weak and is seriously lacking. He's gotten all 8 badges and only 1 of his starters have evolved.

But for the league's he brings back his Pokemon anyway. And judging from the new opening he's bringing back all of them, including Primeape. I think it was the opening, haha. Either that or a trailer.

NiallC
July 17th, 2012, 1:05 PM
It was a trailer I think.

And really, despite all the writing, a point I musn't have gotten across was that whereas in Kanto he had a powerhouse but no experience = losing. Now he has experience and no powerhouses = loses. It's like they refuse to let him have both.

And I have only watch upto Chargestone Cave so I don't know how Krokorok has done I just presumed that because has arrived late he won't be the powerhouse of the team. If he is then my mistake.

Kenshin5
July 17th, 2012, 8:09 PM
Basically in Kanto Pikachu and Charizard were made out to be these "wow holy s**t they're amazing" pokemon with Muk, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Lapras and Pidgeotto being powerful Pokemon as well. The there was Butterfree, Tauros, Primeape and Kingler who were made out to be weak but alright at times.
Some of the pokemon you mentioned weren't really around enough to fully judge their performance. Muk and Kingler had just about the same amount of usage and success. The only reason I think Kingler would be made out to be weak is due to the comprasions made between Ash and Gary Krabby's. Primeape wasn't really around long enough to make much of an impression as well outside of the P1 Gran Prix. So if they have him back I feel he will be a huge asset.

In Johto none of his Pokemon were exactly trained too much and shown to be amazing gobsmacking Pokemon as he could still rely on Charizard most of the time.
I always thought Heracross was one of the most useful pokemon that he obtained in Johto. SO I really can't say they are all not amazing. He didn't really rely on Charizard all that much during Johto as he left Charizard with Liza a majority of the time. It was only in gyms like Falkner and Clair that he actually used Charizard. If any of his Kanto pokemon were what he relied on it was Bulbasaur who stayed on the team for awhile.

In Hoenn I'd say Sceptile was probably the most powerful but he still didn't meet the Charizard/Pikachu standard and Glalie was meant to be the next most poewrful according to some conversations made in Sinnoh.
Not sure how Sceptile isn't up to par with at least Pikachu. He beat Darkrai... Even with the assistance of the others that's still quite a feat. He also didn't do too bad against Brandon's Regirock either. If he has chances to battle strong opponents more then not he will win.

In Sinnoh Infernape was made out to be closest in terms of power and could possibly match Pikachu/Charizard but still not as good. Then there was Gible who probably would be powerhouse standard if he did actually evolve but he isn't so he is more of a lucky Pokemon for now.
No I think if Infernape had a chance it will fare just as well. Especially with controlled Blaze like it was doing against Paul and Volkner. If he battles a Legendary I see him beating one tbh.


Finally, in Unova Palpitoad is his powerhouse which is strange considering he isn't a starter. His team is probably the weakest he has yet considering the amount of Pokemon. Oshawott is too cocky to be made too powerful and Snivy is too confident her abilities now that I don't think she'll want to evolve and stay as she is, like Bulbasaur. Scraggy is a baby and probably will turn into the powerhouse of the team when the time comes but for now Palpitoad has that privilage. Pignite isn't strong but he just has to follow the footsteps of the fire types. Leavanny doesn't need much said whilst Unfezant is just that generic bird type. Boldore seems to be powerful but he just doesn't suit Ash's battling style of fast and strong. He is too defensive and relies on Sturdy to be strong. Palpitoad has been refered to his current powerhouse but with little character development it looks like he won't evolve and with Scraggy looking to be the new powerhouse then it just seems like he will slip into the background. Lastly Krokorok should be the powerhouse but I just think he'll probably be a bit of a flop really, I dunno I just think because it took too long for him to be caught that it seems wierd him becoming the powerhouse and it seems like Scraggy will.
Not seeing the powerhouse statement in place for Palpitoad at this time. He fared well in a few matches in the first Don Tournament and against Elesa(whom he had the type advantage against) that doesn't make him a powerhouse much less powerhouse material to me. He didn't really do all that great against Roxie. Oshawott seems to be more along the lines of Piplup 2.0 and Snivy seems like you said Bulbasaur expect a Attract abuser. Pignite is probably on of the strongest if not the strongest right now for me. Although he is rather spotty as a Tepig. Leavanny did pretty well in its time used. And Unfezant as you said generic bird and one rarely used at that. He needs to use Boldore more for me to get a feel for it. Scraggy probably won't be a powerhouse any time soon, he may come back like Phanphy did and evolve later in another region. I feel the opposite about Krokorok(soon to be Krookodile) which is also the first three stage pokemon Ash has had that is not a starter. If he gets Outrage and Earthquake along with his already powerful Stone Edge and Crunch I think he will be a force to be reckoned with. I think Krokorok is just coming on and we will see more of him in battles here on out.

But even then if you look at the powehouses since Kanto which is probably Heracross, Sceptile, Infernape and Palpitoad/Scraggy not a single one of them match upto the standard of Pikachu/Charizard and until he does he won't win the league. I think because now he has his experience and tactics meaning that he would probably win with a powerhouse in his team whereas if they don't give him one then he will always be at the disadvantage.
Yeah they do live up to their standards imo. And Ash had experience and tactics in Sinnoh and where did that lead him? The writers having he written off losing to a Darkrai and Latios uber trainer Trollbias.

Do you reckon that the moment he gets a pokemon that matches the Charizard/Pikachu standard will be the time that he will win the league?
No, I figure he will win the league when the writers decide to show a little progression with his character.

Chuavechito
July 28th, 2012, 2:22 AM
In Johto, Snorlax was waaay stronger than Pikachu. In fact, he was Ash's most powerful poke since the release of Charizard. The thing is, Ash simple doesnt battle with him.

Pikachu often lost vs extreamly terrible opponents while Snorlax took down a lot of huge powerhouses like Fraligator in the Sumo Conference, Clair's Kingdra (after the same Kingdra trashed the floor with Pikachu) and Nidoqueen + Arcanite from Gary.

Shootingace
August 4th, 2012, 4:56 AM
Pikachu is getting old. That's why he isn't kicking ass anymore.

Poke-roogs
August 5th, 2012, 7:56 AM
Heracross and Donphan were both pretty hard hitters (Heracross beat Gary's Magmar and Spencer's Venusaur, and Donphan was used throughout the Battle Frontier), though they've never exactly been given a chance to shine. Swellow was a really good battler in Hoenn (hell, it went toe-to-toe with Tobias' Latios).

Unova's powerhouse is definitely going to be Krookodile. Its got everything going for it- it's big, reptilian, and has a pair of kickass sunglasses! C'mon, it just wants you to love it!

Kenshin5
August 5th, 2012, 9:27 PM
In Johto, Snorlax was waaay stronger than Pikachu. In fact, he was Ash's most powerful poke since the release of Charizard. The thing is, Ash simple doesnt battle with him.

Pikachu often lost vs extreamly terrible opponents while Snorlax took down a lot of huge powerhouses like Fraligator in the Sumo Conference, Clair's Kingdra (after the same Kingdra trashed the floor with Pikachu) and Nidoqueen + Arcanite from Gary.
Ash didn't release Charizard. He just allowed Liza to have it train in Charicfic Valley to become stronger.

Pikachu is getting old. That's why he isn't kicking ass anymore.
Age progression doesn't really work well with the Anime as Ash is still 10 after all these years.

Heracross and Donphan were both pretty hard hitters (Heracross beat Gary's Magmar and Spencer's Venusaur, and Donphan was used throughout the Battle Frontier), though they've never exactly been given a chance to shine. Swellow was a really good battler in Hoenn (hell, it went toe-to-toe with Tobias' Latios).

Unova's powerhouse is definitely going to be Krookodile. Its got everything going for it- it's big, reptilian, and has a pair of kickass sunglasses! C'mon, it just wants you to love it!
Donphan seemed middle of the line for me personally, it never really had a signature victory or string of victories to have me call it a Powerhouse. Heracross on the other hand is pretty beastly as you mentioned and seemed to hold it's own against Darkrai fairly well.

I feel Krookodile will be one of Ash's powerhouses but at this point in Best Wishes it is too soon to call. He already does have signature wins against Brycen Beartic & Iris Dragonite. Then he held his own against two Jellicent. The only time I was disappointed with his battling was vs. Skyla was I was like "Writers seriously you have him lose that way to Swoobat.