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Mateshard005
August 4th, 2012, 05:44 PM
I think this would helpful for all the Game Devs out their who are making a fan game. That way they know what they want to strive for and how to make the fans happy.

Just post what you think makes a good Pokemon Game such as Including Old Characters, Custom Characters, Custom Trainers that can be built in game, anything you can think of.

Darkroman
August 4th, 2012, 10:44 PM
1. Include all regions of the main pokemon games
2. DS graphics
3. Choose to start with one of the main protagonists in their home region. After they've defeated their home region, they can go to the next region. E.G a fanmade storyline can be implemented for Red when he goes to the Johto region, then the end of that region Red will continue to train at Mt. Silver, then be defeated by Gold 3 years later and so he decides to continue his journey to the other regions (oh yeah I've got ideas, lol).

That's basically it. Sorry if it sounded like a lot, but that'd be my dream pokemon game. Well, actually my dream pokemon game is a full 3D rendered RPG inline with my other suggestions.

Satoshi Ookami
August 5th, 2012, 01:43 AM
1. Include all regions of the main pokemon games
What's so good about this?
You really want to battle with your 100 levels against trainers' level 100s?
If you think you won't have level 100s, you will ;)
In the third or fourth region your Pokémon party will surely be 100 level and to balance it, trainers would also have to have level 100s...
Not to mention 5th region... that would be simple overkill with base trainers having at least 5 level 100s...

Darkroman
August 5th, 2012, 02:30 AM
What's so good about this?
You really want to battle with your 100 levels against trainers' level 100s?
If you think you won't have level 100s, you will ;)
In the third or fourth region your Pokémon party will surely be 100 level and to balance it, trainers would also have to have level 100s...
Not to mention 5th region... that would be simple overkill with base trainers having at least 5 level 100s...

You know there is a concept called balancing :). The game would have to be less about grinding (fighting wild pokemon for experience) and more about linear progression, sure. One thing you could do, for instance, is the gym battles or elite four could have pokemon 2-5 levels higher than your highest leveled pokemon in your party no matter what level your pokemon are (just as an example).

Also, on my HG game at the moment, my pokemon are all level 58 (only the 4 that I battle with, and the other 2 are for HMs). This is right after battling Blue/Green for the earth badge, and I very rarely ever battle wild pokemon.

So, in conclusion, having pokemon being level 100 by the time the 3rd or even 4th region comes around is simply not true. :). Leveling just gets harder and harder! (depending on the pokemon's experience type) Have you played any of the pokemon games??

Gmack
August 5th, 2012, 03:27 PM
You are very much not thinking about OTHERS here. I, myself, grind on wild Pokemon whether I need to or not! Most times I just overpower my Pokemon so much, it's just too easy at that point until I reach the harder parts in the game.
Plus, the game's files would be too large to upload pretty much most areas, and it would take too long to download. Think logically here! Plus, as awesome as all regions in the game would sound, it would get boring after a while. Fighting the same trainers over... and over.. and over again get's tiring to me. Like Ash493 said, everything would be at Lv. 100, and nobody likes to be bored at a level like that ._.
---------
What I, personally, would like to see in a fan-game is an original storyline, unique graphics styles, and gameplay elements that have that "Pokemon" feel from the Gameboy games, yet a game that adds new and exciting elements that give you a tight and consistent experience. Also, build the game with the same styles gameplay-wise, but add your own style of mapping to the game, some unique dialogue, and especially some after-game content. That's just my personal opinion, though.

Poeman
August 5th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Some effort would be nice.

Mateshard005
August 5th, 2012, 06:31 PM
1. Include all regions of the main pokemon games


Thats a good idea but there would be some overpowered Pokemom if this happens XD

rpg man
August 5th, 2012, 06:36 PM
Thats a good idea but there would be some overpowered Pokemom if this happens XD

Yeah but what if they made it so you leave your pokemon in that region and start Fresh in the next?

( just a classic idea) :laugh:

Umbreon
August 5th, 2012, 06:58 PM
A credits screen (meaning completion at the very least)....

WackyTurtle
August 6th, 2012, 02:35 AM
An original storyline would be nice. And I'm not just talking about a slight deviation off the current formula - I'm talking no gyms, no elite four etc. I know a lot of fan games are doing this but there are just too many posts I see where the premise is you're just a kid in a small town who goes and fights gyms and stops an evil organisation.

Darkroman
August 7th, 2012, 12:00 AM
I apologize for sounding like my idea was a end all be all for every pokemon fan game, (and let's face it, the tone of my post did suggest that). I still think that level 100 pokemon (if you use the same pokemon) would be unreachable even by the end of the 4th region. RPG Man brings a solution :).

Anyway, some other ideas for a pokemon fan game I have involve the pokemon story being set in ancient times.

Satoshi Ookami
August 7th, 2012, 01:32 AM
Have you played any of the pokemon games??
NO! I'm talking about something I've never tried o.O

I still think that level 100 pokemon (if you use the same pokemon) would be unreachable even by the end of the 4th region.
Tell it to my White 2's Lucario. ;)
And Isshu is ONE region.

DarkDoom3000
August 7th, 2012, 03:35 AM
An interesting way to "fix" the overleveling problem... is doing what the anime does and reset the pokmeon.

so for each region, you select a new starter. and go through the region collecting a bunch of new pokemon. once you defeat the league, you can reuse pokemon from any region in that region.

But at that point, why not just make 5 different games with transferrable saves. or a mechanic like that.

FL
August 7th, 2012, 05:52 AM
Cut the exp gain by half! On other hand the Elite Four of first region have around level 30 pokémon O__o.

Try something like:

multiplier = 100 + (pokemonLevel-20)*4
multiplier = 100 if multiplier<100
expToNextLevel = oldExpToNextLevel*multiplier/100


Warning with rare candies.

What I want: More original ideas, more than 90% of ideas are: All regions in one game; a portable game remake; a new region with eight type-based badges with ancient legend about the cover pokémon than villainous team try to catch (RSE/DPP clones).

You can think on more creative game styles! How about a game that you are a bad guy?

Plus, the game's files would be too large to upload pretty much most areas, and it would take too long to download. The things that uses file size are mp3 and videos. I think that is possible to make a game with all five regions with less of 50 MB.

desbrina
August 7th, 2012, 03:28 PM
The things that uses file size are mp3 and videos. I think that is possible to make a game with all five regions with less of 50 MB.

The graphics can use a lot as well. Lightning yellow graphics folder is 170MB, though 110MB of that is animated battlers (just Kanto and evos, all animated is 420MB)

It would be close, probably closer to 60MB than 50MB. Lightning yellow is missing the kanto league still, and its data alone is 10MB, the audio is 110 MB

RaulCortez
August 7th, 2012, 04:25 PM
I think the problem and the reason why so many fan games are never finished is exactly because of things like this. Aspiring game designers don't design their game.

1. YES! My game will have all the regions!

Think again. You're saying your game will have all the regions, with all its NPC's, that will have their dialogues, with all its houses, all its routes, all its Pokémon on their routes. Let's not talk about the events that should be to make them attracting and not just a bunch of maps with Pokemon to catch and people to talk with...not that easy unless you want to be the Tolkien of Pokémon

2. My Game will have all Pokémon from all Regions!

Tell me about how your hero will be able to walk around tall grass with so many Pokémon piled up on it. A normal route should have around 3 different Pokémon species. Not a bunch of different species so that you can "Catch them all"

3. My game will have like 2432434432423 NEW and AWESOME and UNIQUE features!

You know, this is a very personal opinion, but when i'm playing a game with a great storyline, i end up not giving a crap about how pretty the message boxes are or how advanced and unique the menu looks. Not saying new features aren't cool, but people. Common sense.

What do i suggest or want on a fan game, then?

1. Focus on a coherent, fun, solid storyline so that your game isn't a bunch of pretty pictures and nothing else.

2. Don't try to cover everything. Develop a cool looking, neat region with all its events, people, and details. Even two regions would be great, in the style of GSC, so that some characters can even have storyline bonds there (Gym Leader Jonah from Ruru Region has a friend on Tuyo Region, and they help you on X or Y event when you get there, etc.)

3. Develop a Pokédex. Pick your favorite Pokémon from each region and make a Balanced Pokédex with them, that way you'll be able to know where to put them, or to develop special areas for them. Also it will be easier to handle.

That way you'll have a great game, will be able to finish it, and people will actually enjoy it.

Just my two cents :)

Yamiidenryuu
August 7th, 2012, 05:54 PM
3. Develop a Pokédex. Pick your favorite Pokémon from each region and make a Balanced Pokédex with them, that way you'll be able to know where to put them, or to develop special areas for them. Also it will be easier to handle.
As someone who is (kinda sorta) designing a Pokemon fangame with a dex comprised entirely of fakemon, how would you define a "balanced Pokedex"? Do you just mean things like enough species of each type and stat distribution (so you don't have like 20 special sweepers and very few bulky 'mons)?

RaulCortez
August 7th, 2012, 06:50 PM
As someone who is (kinda sorta) designing a Pokemon fangame with a dex comprised entirely of fakemon, how would you define a "balanced Pokedex"? Do you just mean things like enough species of each type and stat distribution (so you don't have like 20 special sweepers and very few bulky 'mons)?

Exactly that, mi amigo!

If you're designing a Fakemon dex, try to avoid these:

A) Don't come up with a bunch of legendaries. You can come up with a "Major legendary" and a trio of "sub legendaries". Remember, they're supposed to be part of a legend, so try to put small hints about them on key parts of the region.

B) Try to add "normal" fakemon, both physically and on stats. By physically i mean, think of Rattatas, Pidgeys, Sentrets, Wurmples, and HootHoot's. Simple and small. It's kind of strange to find this mystic enigmatic glowing Fox of fire on route one, for example. Then, as you go on in the game, as the difficulty level grows, cooler looking Fakémon should appear.

:)

Yamiidenryuu
August 7th, 2012, 07:03 PM
Exactly that, mi amigo!

If you're designing a Fakemon dex, try to avoid these:

A) Don't come up with a bunch of legendaries. You can come up with a "Major legendary" and a trio of "sub legendaries". Remember, they're supposed to be part of a legend, so try to put small hints about them on key parts of the region.

B) Try to add "normal" fakemon, both physically and on stats. By physically i mean, think of Rattatas, Pidgeys, Sentrets, Wurmples, and HootHoot's. Simple and small. It's kind of strange to find this mystic enigmatic glowing Fox of fire on route one, for example. Then, as you go on in the game, as the difficulty level grows, cooler looking Fakémon should appear.

:)
Well, looks like I won't have any problems there, then. Thanks for the input!

pkmn.master
August 7th, 2012, 09:16 PM
NO! I'm talking about something I've never tried o.O


Tell it to my White 2's Lucario. ;)
And Isshu is ONE region.

Who says that level 100 HAS to be the limit for leveling up? Originality is what I want to see. While I think that all regions would be too amibitious to put in a single Pokemon fangame, nobody has done it, and it is a good idea. It is very possible to raise the level cap from 100 to 500.

Yamiidenryuu
August 8th, 2012, 06:20 AM
Who says that level 100 HAS to be the limit for leveling up? Originality is what I want to see. While I think that all regions would be too amibitious to put in a single Pokemon fangame, nobody has done it, and it is a good idea. It is very possible to raise the level cap from 100 to 500.
That brings its own problems, though. Unless you want to change everyone's evolution level, almost all your evolve-by-level-up Pokemon are going to be fully evolved after the first region. And what about level-up move learning? You'll have to either space the moves out a heck of a lot more or make the list huge. It's not as simple as just bumping up the level limit.

pkmn.master
August 8th, 2012, 08:19 AM
That brings its own problems, though. Unless you want to change everyone's evolution level, almost all your evolve-by-level-up Pokemon are going to be fully evolved after the first region. And what about level-up move learning? You'll have to either space the moves out a heck of a lot more or make the list huge. It's not as simple as just bumping up the level limit.


I thought when I made my post that these would be pretty obvious changes, as did every other member here, but thanks for pointing it out. You didn't actually think that you could make a fangame with all regions without doing a bit of work, did you? Either way, you don't even have to do any of that. You don't have to have your Piplup evolve at level 100, or learn watergun at level 50. It makes more sense that you have your Pokemon evolved by the time you head out to the next region, and I see no problem with this, since all of the trainers on the next region will have their Pokemon fully evolved and match your level. So, actually, it is as simple as bumping up the level, if you don't want to put that much work into it. Not only that, but increasing the amount of exp gain to the next level could easily throw that problem away.

WackyTurtle
August 8th, 2012, 08:30 AM
I still don't really see the whole point in the regions idea. Isn't it really boring to play through the environments you already know all about? Basically just reliving old games of Pokémon? Why not just go and play the actual Pokémon games? There's a plethora of directions you can take your fan game in, and to just revisit old material would be unimaginative, in my opinion.

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 08:36 AM
What's so good about this?
You really want to battle with your 100 levels against trainers' level 100s?
If you think you won't have level 100s, you will ;)

Allow levels to go above 100. Problem solved.

That brings its own problems, though. Unless you want to change everyone's evolution level, almost all your evolve-by-level-up Pokemon are going to be fully evolved after the first region. And what about level-up move learning? You'll have to either space the moves out a heck of a lot more or make the list huge. It's not as simple as just bumping up the level limit.

I don't see why not, really. Most Pokémon stop learning moves at about level 75 or 80 anyway (Venusaur stops learning new moves as early as level 53, for example), so it's not like the move list doesn't have that problem already. Secondly, evolutions stop way before level 100 anyway. The highest it's ever gone is 64 with Hydreigon, and 59 with Volcarona if you're thinking first-stage evos. Most stop around the 20s and 30s.

And if you really are making a game where monsters could reasonably go above level 100 in the first place, it'll probably have enough plot and variable battles to be interesting on its own without all the move-learning.

Yamiidenryuu
August 8th, 2012, 09:34 AM
I don't see why not, really. Most Pokémon stop learning moves at about level 75 or 80 anyway (Venusaur stops learning new moves as early as level 53, for example), so it's not like the move list doesn't have that problem already. Secondly, evolutions stop way before level 100 anyway. The highest it's ever gone is 64 with Hydreigon, and 59 with Volcarona if you're thinking first-stage evos. Most stop around the 20s and 30s.

And if you really are making a game where monsters could reasonably go above level 100 in the first place, it'll probably have enough plot and variable battles to be interesting on its own without all the move-learning.
Most of the time you're not going to get anywhere near level 100 before the credits roll, though- I don't think there's an E4 with Pokemon higher than level 60-something on the first battle, is there? But with a game where once you beat that first E4 you go on to another one, and another one, your Pokemon are going to stop learning moves, and thus stagnate to some degree, long before the game could be said to be over. If you think you've got enough going on that that's not a problem, then fine, but it seems a bit shortsighted to not consider it at all.

Not to mention I'm not sure many of these "go to all the regions in one game!" people are putting much thought into the plot, but that might just be me.

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 09:57 AM
Most of the time you're not going to get anywhere near level 100 before the credits roll, though- I don't think there's an E4 with Pokemon higher than level 60-something on the first battle, is there? But with a game where once you beat that first E4 you go on to another one, and another one, your Pokemon are going to stop learning moves, and thus stagnate to some degree, long before the game could be said to be over. If you think you've got enough going on that that's not a problem, then fine, but it seems a bit shortsighted to not consider it at all.

That's certainly true; simply cramming more monsters in without anything else new will get boring fast.

Although as time goes on, even in the official games there's more and more post-game stuff, and the closer and closer monsters will get to reasonably reaching and even surpassing level 100, as well as stopping learning new moves (which gets tiring after a while, to be honest).

And by the same token, just because monsters can go above level 100 doesn't mean they'll go much further above. You might argue that in such a situation simply tweaking the formula should be a better option, but again, the ceiling shouldn't be so easily reached in my opinion.

RaulCortez
August 8th, 2012, 10:57 AM
If a Pokémon game raised their level limit to 500 and had all the regions(5), to get their to their max capabilities would be to train them to gain eh...100 levels per region?

Plus the fact that, not only trainers, but wild Pokémon should increase their levels, because honestly, by the time you get to Unova, your Lvl. 360 Pikachu will exterminate that poor little Lvl.5 Patrat with a Growl.

It's not credible at all. At least not for me.

When developing a game it's not only about stats or levels or tweaking anything to make it work. It's about a storyline and making the story credible to the player so that they can have enough of it and not get bored or say "The hell, how is this possible?"

I personally wouldn't play a game where you have to go through this infinity of places to finish it. A game with two regions and many fun, challenging events like puzzles, searching for an specifical Pokémon, and new features and places when you finish the E4 sounds ideal for me.

Matter of tastes, i guess?

pkmn.master
August 8th, 2012, 11:12 AM
But with a game where once you beat that first E4 you go on to another one, and another one, your Pokemon are going to stop learning moves, and thus stagnate to some degree, long before the game could be said to be over.

Not to mention I'm not sure many of these "go to all the regions in one game!" people are putting much thought into the plot, but that might just be me.

Not necessarily. If you mean that the whole game would stagnate, reconsider. Although it is an RPG, and leveling up and gaining new abilities is one concept of an RPG, it isn't the only one. The moves and evolutions attained by a Pokemon throughout a playthrough of a Pokemon game isn't actually a selling point of the games. The actual story matters more to most people. If you have a long and engaging story that makes players feel like they are a part of the Pokemon world and can go anywhere they would like, as if they were a real Pokemon trainer, then you have yourself a game, without worrying about what the Pokemon can learn. Ash's Pikachu doesn't learn that many new moves in the newer seasons, since we all assume that he must be at level 100 by this time, and Ash seems to still have fun. But it is just as you mentioned in that last sentence, most newbies here would jump right to saying that their game will have all regions, without any consideration of the plot. And a stale plot on a long game isn't going to be successful. However, if you just make some modifications that would double the amount of EXP needed to proceed to the next level, you wouldn't have to do any spacing of evolutions or moves.

I myself aren't a fan of the idea of all regions in one game. Mainly because most people who are new want to do it, but can't even contemplate how ambitious of a project it is. I have made a few games with RMXP before, and even I almost made my first project an ambitious one. They are always doomed to fail. Make some small games first, maybe two regions max, then go on to make a super project if you still think that you can do it. I am only defending the idea of all regions because I know that it has never been done before, and such a project with a dedicated developer would be popular if it were completed with a strong plot.

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 11:23 AM
If a Pokémon game raised their level limit to 500 and had all the regions(5), to get their to their max capabilities would be to train them to gain eh...100 levels per region?

Plus the fact that, not only trainers, but wild Pokémon should increase their levels, because honestly, by the time you get to Unova, your Lvl. 360 Pikachu will exterminate that poor little Lvl.5 Patrat with a Growl.

That's why you gradually increase the levels as you go along. :P

Also, who says that the limit of 500 has to be reasonably reachable? For example, the level 200 limit in Maple Story. Nobody's gotten past about 140 or so, from what I know.

And who says there needs to be a limit at all? The formulas that depend on the level are easily extensible to infinity. The advantage of using simple formulas like Game Freak did is that they scale pretty well.

It's not credible at all. At least not for me.

When developing a game it's not only about stats or levels or tweaking anything to make it work. It's about a storyline and making the story credible to the player so that they can have enough of it and not get bored or say "The hell, how is this possible?"

In the first place, what happened to give me the idea of removing the level cap was that somebody had created a story for a 16-city region that was so long and complicated that the levels would reach about 105 or so by the time you got through even half of it.

I personally wouldn't play a game where you have to go through this infinity of places to finish it. A game with two regions and many fun, challenging events like puzzles, searching for an specifical Pokémon, and new features and places when you finish the E4 sounds ideal for me.

Matter of tastes, i guess?

I've never played Chrono Trigger, but apparently it's about as complicated as you describe. And don't you think with that many challenging events, your levels would start racking up anyway?

However, if you just make some modifications that would double the amount of EXP needed to proceed to the next level, you wouldn't have to do any spacing of evolutions or moves.

One of the reasons I'm opposed to doing this (scaling back level gain speed) is because it would make levels go way too slowly. The speed they go at now is pretty good, and if you make levels go that slowly, every time you reach a new area, the monsters would only go up by level by maybe 1 or even not at all, and it would quickly seem like you're not making any progress.

RaulCortez
August 8th, 2012, 12:00 PM
That's why you gradually increase the levels as you go along. :P

Also, who says that the limit of 500 has to be reasonably reachable? For example, the level 200 limit in Maple Story. Nobody's gotten past about 140 or so, from what I know.

And who says there needs to be a limit at all? The formulas that depend on the level are easily extensible to infinity. The advantage of using simple formulas like Game Freak did is that they scale pretty well.

I don't think it wouldn't be possible or reasonable.

Like you said, the levels could be raised Ad Infinitum, but i'm talking from a designer's point of view to make a game you can actually finish, reason why i think the best thing to do is to keep it practical and under certain limits.

Even though level limits really have little to do for the main focus of the game, For me, as a Pokémon gamer, just feels strange to have a game in which i won't be able to feel i've taken my Pokémon to the maximum of their capabilities, simply because there isn't a "maximum". It kills the magic of it a bit for me of being "The Pokémon Master", call me a romantic :P


In the first place, what happened to give me the idea of removing the level cap was that somebody had created a story for a 16-city region that was so long and complicated that the levels would reach about 105 or so by the time you got through even half of it.

A story like that sounds reasonable, and if the plot justifies the level increase then it's perfect. I was talking about having these huge levels on a classic Pokémon plot.


I've never played Chrono Trigger, but apparently it's about as complicated as you describe. And don't you think with that many challenging events, your levels would start racking up anyway?
Never played Chrono Trigger either, but take a look at GSC (Which apparently has become my main referent...I just think it was the perfect balance between Pokémon number, areas to explore, tasks and all that):

- Two Major Legendaries (Mainly because two versions were released
- Legendary trio
- Two Regions, with their Pokémon nicely divided
- Unown Puzzles that took you to this completely different task on the game ( Pretty useless in the end, but whatever, it was a good idea)
- Evil Organization, just a little of it so it doesn't get awfully tiring

And all that between sane standards that almost everyone enjoyed.

Satoshi Ookami
August 8th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Yeah, why not? Have Pokémon over 100 level... destroy the only one concept that's in every Pokémon game from the beginning...

Move the evolutions and movesets to higher levels.
Yeah, why not? I'm soooo sure that everyone will be overjoyed to use Scratch/Tackle to beat everything and on level 50 they get the first elemental attack.
Then they will have to wait for evolutions to another region because they wouldn't be able to evolve their Pokémon in the first because of high level? Yeah, so promising...

Sorry guys, but I'm not buying the fact that this would be enjoyable for anyone.

pkmn.master
August 8th, 2012, 01:08 PM
One of the reasons I'm opposed to doing this (scaling back level gain speed) is because it would make levels go way too slowly. The speed they go at now is pretty good, and if you make levels go that slowly, every time you reach a new area, the monsters would only go up by level by maybe 1 or even not at all, and it would quickly seem like you're not making any progress.

Yea, that's the idea. But if you doubled the exp required, as I mentioned, you see more level gain than 1. You are thinking about ridiculously increasing the amount of exp required, but that wouldn't be necessary for just five regions...

Either way you do it, you want it to seem like you are making not a lot of progress, but not in a ridiculous manner, because this would make level gaining all the more rewarding. Getting from level 19 to 20 would more better be like getting from level 49 to 50, not really all that hard to do, and you still see the progress while knowing that you won't break 90 until the fourth or final region.

Yeah, why not? Have Pokémon over 100 level... destroy the only one concept that's in every Pokémon game from the beginning...

Move the evolutions and movesets to higher levels.
Yeah, why not? I'm soooo sure that everyone will be overjoyed to use Scratch/Tackle to beat everything and on level 50 they get the first elemental attack.
Then they will have to wait for evolutions to another region because they wouldn't be able to evolve their Pokémon in the first because of high level? Yeah, so promising...

Sorry guys, but I'm not buying the fact that this would be enjoyable for anyone.

Let me just stop you there and make a few comments. "Destroy the only one concept that's in every Pokémon game from the beginning"? Why would you consider the bettering of an idea to be the destruction of an idea? It is called originality. Why would scratch and tackle even have to be learned? Why not start off with watergun at level 5? This is the problem with a lot of new fangames, too many of their developers are afraid to try something new. It is like almost every game here has to do with starting off on your tenth birthday and you are going to get your Pokemon from Professor (insert random name here).

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 01:57 PM
I don't think it wouldn't be possible or reasonable.

Like you said, the levels could be raised Ad Infinitum, but i'm talking from a designer's point of view to make a game you can actually finish, reason why i think the best thing to do is to keep it practical and under certain limits.

From a designer's point of view myself, I like games than scale well at any scale. The limits and constants are still there, but sometimes, it's better to have a wide-open game than a closed one, know what I mean?

Even though level limits really have little to do for the main focus of the game, For me, as a Pokémon gamer, just feels strange to have a game in which i won't be able to feel i've taken my Pokémon to the maximum of their capabilities, simply because there isn't a "maximum". It kills the magic of it a bit for me of being "The Pokémon Master", call me a romantic :P

I suppose you could say that. But the level cap of 100 would definitely make things fly into a wall for certain plots, as I explained earlier. Perhaps raise the limit to 200 rather than 500.

A story like that sounds reasonable, and if the plot justifies the level increase then it's perfect. I was talking about having these huge levels on a classic Pokémon plot.

If the classic Pokémon plot is long enough, the levels will get there naturally. I think what you really have a problem is is the fact that the plot would be long enough, which is too long.

A rule of thumb I have for measuring the approximate level that your Pokémon team is likely to get to is: Square the approximate number of trainer battles, and multiply by 1.5. Then, take the cube root of this number. From what I know, Johto had about 250 trainer battles before the Elite Four, so you'd expect your Pokémon to be about level 45 by the time you're done if you kept your team of six the whole way through.

From what I knew of that player's plot, they had maybe 1,200 to 1,500 trainer battles at least, which is anywhere from level 129 to 150.

Never played Chrono Trigger either, but take a look at GSC (Which apparently has become my main referent...I just think it was the perfect balance between Pokémon number, areas to explore, tasks and all that) [...]

I agree that GSC was the best gen. :P

RaulCortez
August 8th, 2012, 02:17 PM
Either way you do it, you want it to seem like you are making not a lot of progress, but not in a ridiculous manner, because this would make level gaining all the more rewarding. Getting from level 19 to 20 would more better be like getting from level 49 to 50, not really all that hard to do, and you still see the progress while knowing that you won't break 90 until the fourth or final region.

One of the things that most players (specially the ones that first start playing Pokémon) look forward to, is to see the Pokémon they've trained so hard finally evolve.

If some find it to be tiring to evolve their Pokémon with the current standards, imagine to wait ages for a Pokémon to evolve. It won't be "worth the wait" or "rewarding" for the huge majority of the people that will be playing the game, i think. Teenagers (and people in general, really) these days aren't Confucius or Paulo Coelho's offspring, you know. They'll be bored quickly when even their Caterpie takes ages to evolve.

A game like that would be a tour de force and a real test of patience :\

If the classic Pokémon plot is long enough, the levels will get there naturally. I think what you really have a problem is is the fact that the plot would be long enough, which is too long.

A rule of thumb I have for measuring the approximate level that your Pokémon team is likely to get to is: Square the approximate number of trainer battles, and multiply by 1.5. Then, take the cube root of this number. From what I know, Johto had about 250 trainer battles before the Elite Four, so you'd expect your Pokémon to be about level 45 by the time you're done if you kept your team of six the whole way through.

I agree that GSC was the best gen. :PThat makes sense, if things are layed out like that, it could work. And a limit of 200 sounds way more sane than 500, indeed. And yay! GSC! :P

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 02:27 PM
That makes sense, if things are layed out like that, it could work. And a limit of 200 sounds way more sane than 500, indeed. And yay! GSC! :P

Although you do need to keep in mind that the limit of 200 is only because levels would start getting close to that anyway.

Always design a limit for the game, not a game for the limit.

pkmn.master
August 8th, 2012, 02:31 PM
One of the things that most players (specially the ones that first start playing Pokémon) look forward to, is to see the Pokémon they've trained so hard finally evolve.

If some find it to be tiring to evolve their Pokémon with the current standards, imagine to wait ages for a Pokémon to evolve. It won't be "worth the wait" or "rewarding" for the huge majority of the people that will be playing the game, i think. Teenagers (and people en general, really) these days aren't Confucius or Paulo Coelho's offspring, you know. They'll be bored quickly when even their Caterpie takes ages to evolve.

A game like that would be a tour de force and a real test of patience :\

Actually, many of the new players do not, in fact, buy a Pokémon game to watch their Pokémon evolve. When you buy a RPG, you buy it for the plot, not to grind in hours of playing to level your character up just to see what move it learns at x level. As for getting bored waiting for their Pokémon to evolve, who is waiting? Why do you want your Pokémon to evolve at the start of the game? Would it be a game changer for players to have to actually play the game and level up their Caterpie (considering caterpie evolves at level 10, doubling the exp required would be like getting caterpie to level 20 in the standard games, so getting bored won't happen there)? I think not. The idea is that players enjoy the game's plot, and then get rewarded by following a well-designed plot through the evolution of their Pokemon. As a player and developer of RPGs myself, I wouldn't consider buying Pokémon Black 2 just to evolve my Tepig. To be a successful RPG developer, you have to put your focus to the actual story.

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 02:39 PM
Actually, many of the new players do not, in fact, buy a Pokémon game to watch their Pokémon evolve. When you buy a RPG, you buy it for the plot, not to grind in hours of playing to level your character up just to see what move it learns at x level.

Actually, in the case of Pokémon, there's post-game raising, which might be an issue. Sure, you might be able to wrestle down the level gain to 90 or so, but then it takes painfully long to train another out-of-story Pokémon just to level 36 to make it evolve.

As for getting bored waiting for their Pokémon to evolve, who is waiting? Why do you want your Pokémon to evolve at the start of the game? Would it be a game changer for players to have to actually play the game and level up their Caterpie (considering caterpie evolves at level 10, doubling the exp required would be like getting caterpie to level 20 in the standard games, so getting bored won't happen there)? I think not.

Again, post-game raising.

Also, doubling EXP requirements does not halve the level. Getting a Caterpie to level 10 would be more like getting it to about level 13 or 14.

The idea is that players enjoy the game's plot, and then get rewarded by following a well-designed plot through the evolution of their Pokemon. As a player and developer of RPGs myself, I wouldn't consider buying Pokémon Black 2 just to evolve my Tepig. To be a successful RPG developer, you have to put your focus to the actual story.

And putting your focus to the actual story doesn't mean that the evolutions take ages.

Maruno
August 8th, 2012, 03:34 PM
I think this thread needs its name changing.

I'll voice my thoughts anyway.

The vast majority of games only need one region. RB, RS, DP and BW all have one region, and people like them just fine. GS has two regions, but Kanto is very much tacked-on and is on par with other games' post-E4 content rather than being "the second half of the adventure".

No, seriously, one region. Your masterpiece is probably too long and convoluted, and would be a better game if you had the sensibility to boil it down. It also means it's less work to do, which means a higher chance of it being completed. Only very exceptional games can be long enough to consider the existence of the level cap (which is just one of the many related issues). Swallow your pride - your game is probably not one of these exceptions.

My main concern, which people never seem to address, is what they would actually do with their multiple regions and how they'd seamlessly link them together. If the only reason the player is jetting off to Hoenn is "because Prof. Oak suggested it", then you should throw away anything you've written after that point - it's not part of the same game. Nostalgia cruise games inevitably involve recreating the official games almost word for word (i.e. start off in the starting towns, with/without your previous Pokémon, progress in the same way through the regions, blah blah blah). No. Bad. And don't come to me saying you have some twists planned - deep down you know why you added the extra region, and if that reason is "I wanted it, and I'll find a way to work it in somehow" then that's a bad reason and you should feel bad. You should do what the game needs, and it never needs someone throwing in extra regions for nostalgia's sake.

If you're particularly stubborn and still want your 5(/6/7/8) regions in your game, then you'll need to start thinking about that level cap and the related issues (level-up move-learning, evolutions, power escalation, etc.). There have been several proposals in this thread on how to fix this, and they're all rubbish. Raising the level cap just results in unrealistically-levelled wild Pokémon roaming Unova (and involves way too much balancing issues for your liking); halving the Exp gain per battle just makes it twice as hard to level up at the beginning of the game (which is off-putting, and still has balancing issues); and starting a new region afresh with no old Pokémon is the same thing as starting a brand new different game (in which case, make them different games, duh).

The official games match the Pokémon growth (fairly) well to their pace. By the end of the game your Pokémon have grown into pretty much their final form with their final moveset (levelling them up to the cap is academic when nothing else about them is going to change). Some are easier to get to that state, some are harder. The point is that Pokémon and the game both reach the end at around the same point. Adding multiple regions suddenly doubles the length of the plot, while the Pokémon are still geared around a 1-region growth rate. This is why the aforementioned level cap and related issues exist.

I've been assuming here that there is no such thing as post-game in these fangames, and with good reason. Aside from a few side-quests, the only thing you can do in official games post-game is battle other players and try to complete the local Battle Frontier. These are negated by the fact that PvP isn't available in Essentials, and very few people are going to bother trying to get bragging rights in a fangame's knock-offs of the official games' Frontiers, because to do so is pointless. This just leaves the side-quests, which can either be shifted earlier in the game or left there to do nothing but be the "for completeness" part. Either way, once the main game is finished, there's nothing left to play for. Therefore, no post-game.



Here are some random ideas I've had about using multiple regions. Their usabilities may vary; I'm just mentioning them regardless of how well they would actually work.


All regions don't need to be the same size. Those islands in FRLG were smaller than Kanto, for instance (well, they felt smaller).
You don't need to be able to visit all parts of a given region. This is of particular interest to those who want to use those regions in their plots rather than just including them for nostalgia cruises. I don't think any plot where you suddenly hop to a new region could cope with having that entire region thrown into it.
You could move back and forth between regions at will, rather than be stuck in a strict linear progression. Puzzles and plot could jump around between the regions. Regions separated by large distances may have some fridge logic to answer to (particularly if the plot becomes ostensibly time-urgent), and people may question why you need two regions when you could use one.
You don't need to play through the regions in the same way the official games do. GS is an example of this, where you start off in Kanto in Vermillion City rather than Pallet Town, and head off in way different directions.
Regions don't need to depict different areas in the same world. How about different layers of existence (world/Shadow Realm/Aether), or parallel realities, or different time periods of the same location?

pkmn.master
August 8th, 2012, 03:48 PM
Actually, in the case of Pokémon, there's post-game raising, which might be an issue. Sure, you might be able to wrestle down the level gain to 90 or so, but then it takes painfully long to train another out-of-story Pokémon just to level 36 to make it evolve.



Again, post-game raising.

Also, doubling EXP requirements does not halve the level. Getting a Caterpie to level 10 would be more like getting it to about level 13 or 14.



And putting your focus to the actual story doesn't mean that the evolutions take ages.

*Sigh* You are thinking a little to hard here. Let me put it in an example easy for you to understand.

Say by the end of the game, one that would most likely spand over 150 hours, you still want to play in the post game (unlikely since most RPGs don't include a post game). When you beat the game, the Pokemon availiable in that part of the game should be at equal level to yours, for obvious reasons. You can't seem to understand that the exp requirement being doubled won't take ages.
Take chansey, of the fast experience group.
The formula for those in the fast exp gain group is EXP= (4n^3)/5. So getting Chansey from level 19 to level 20 on a regular game would require 913 EXP, which could be attained in about 4 battles against a wild Pikachu, all at level 20. For our multi-regioned game, I would guess that we would want the exp doubled, or at least 1.5 times more. SO EXP=2((4n^3)/5) would give us 1826 required exp, attainable from about 8 battles against the same Pikachu, or about 6 if you wanted the formula to be multiplied by 1.5 rather.

So how can you not see that battling 8 Pikachu, without even using the Lucky Egg, doesn't take "ages". Another thing, who even sees leveling up Pokemon on a fangame a "post-plot"?

RaulCortez
August 8th, 2012, 03:52 PM
At everything Maruno said:

THANKS. That's just what i wanted to get across since Post #1.


Actually, many of the new players do not, in fact, buy a Pokémon game to watch their Pokémon evolve. When you buy a RPG, you buy it for the plot, not to grind in hours of playing to level your character up just to see what move it learns at x level. As for getting bored waiting for their Pokémon to evolve, who is waiting? Why do you want your Pokémon to evolve at the start of the game? Would it be a game changer for players to have to actually play the game and level up their Caterpie (considering caterpie evolves at level 10, doubling the exp required would be like getting caterpie to level 20 in the standard games, so getting bored won't happen there)? I think not. The idea is that players enjoy the game's plot, and then get rewarded by following a well-designed plot through the evolution of their Pokemon. As a player and developer of RPGs myself, I wouldn't consider buying Pokémon Black 2 just to evolve my Tepig. To be a successful RPG developer, you have to put your focus to the actual story.

Thing is, in the case of Pokémon, we're not talking just about moves. We're talking about visuals, the Pokémon themselves.

Let's say i like Tyranitar. I know to get Tyranitar you need to evolve your Larvitar(lvl.30), and then your Pupitar(lvl.55). But you don't like those two, I like Tyranitar. It's badass and I like it. Simple as that. I don't think the average person would wait all you're supposed to wait for them to get all the experience to evolve TWO times before you get the Pokémon you want. Imagine an Arion or even worse, a Deino case.

I agree that the plot is pivotal for a story. And for someone who's NEVER, EVER played a Pokémon game before it would be Ok, since they had no idea how quickly Pokémon gain levels or experience on official games. But to anyone who's played Pokémon before would be thinking why on earth is it taking them so much to make their Pokémon to gain levels for any reason. And why compare them with official games? It's the canon. You're making a fan game using characters out from a franchise, not a completely new game with new monsters. It's obvious people will compare because they're expecting new experiences while keeping the main foundations of that franchise.

Now, this is my personal opinion and view on this based on what i like and enjoy about Pokémon games. Everyone is free to add whatever they like to their games. :)

pkmn.master
August 8th, 2012, 03:54 PM
You don't need to be able to visit all parts of a given region. This is of particular interest to those who want to use those regions in their plots rather than just including them for nostalgia cruises. I don't think any plot where you suddenly hop to a new region could cope with having that entire region thrown into it.
You don't need to play through the regions in the same way the official games do. GS is an example of this, where you start off in Kanto in Vermillion City rather than Pallet Town, and head off in way different directions.


These are two very good points that could help with the level balancing issues.

Also, some towns/cities may not even have to have gyms anymore.

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 03:58 PM
This just leaves the side-quests, which can either be shifted earlier in the game or left there to do nothing but be the "for completeness" part. Either way, once the main game is finished, there's nothing left to play for. Therefore, no post-game.

So no PMD-style main-plot-is-really-only-a-third-of-the-whole-game-because-of-all-the-sidequests kind of deal? I would have thought that Pokémon was more conducive to that kind of thing.

You are right that one game should probably stick to one region, though. All the stuff I've been saying about the level cap is about a game whose region is so big it's the "equivalent" of two regions. And I wasn't even the one who planned it out. It's not so much about scale as it is homogeneity.

Raising the level cap just results in unrealistically-levelled wild Pokémon roaming Unova (and involves way too much balancing issues for your liking).

I'm interested in how you figure this. What balancing issues does it actually entail? Do you have experience from actually having tried to do this before?

Also, what level is "unrealistic"? In Unova, you already have Pokémon at levels like 59 to 65 roaming the areas that are explorable immediately after the E4, even though they themselves were only at levels like 48 to 50 the first time around.

Aside from a few side-quests, the only thing you can do in official games post-game is battle other players and try to complete the local Battle Frontier.

And in the case of Unova, try and bring your Pokémon up to speed with all the unexplored post-game regions.

pkmn.master
August 8th, 2012, 04:03 PM
At everything Maruno said:

THANKS. That's just what i wanted to get across since Post #1.




Thing is, in the case of Pokémon, we're not talking just about moves. We're talking about visuals, the Pokémon themselves.

Let's say i like Tyranitar. I know to get Tyranitar you need to evolve your Larvitar(lvl.30), and then your Pupitar(lvl.55). But you don't like those two, I like Tyranitar. It's badass and I like it. Simple as that. I don't think the average person would wait all you're supposed to wait for them to get all the experience to evolve TWO times before you get the Pokémon you want. Imagine an Arion or even worse, a Deino case.

I agree that the plot is pivotal for a story. And for someone who's NEVER, EVER played a Pokémon game before it would be Ok, since they had no idea how quickly Pokémon gain levels or experience on official games. But to anyone who's played Pokémon before would be thinking why on earth is it taking them so much to make their Pokémon to gain levels for any reason.

Now, this is my personal opinion and view on this based on what i like and enjoy about Pokémon games. Everyone is free to add whatever they like to their games. :)

Just as my previous post says, if you multiply exp requirements by 1.5 or 2, you aren't making the player play that long to level his or her Pokemon up. Also, who says that you will run into a Pupitar? What if wild Pokemon are around level 55 when you enter Hoenn? Why not encounter Tyranitar? Don't be afraid of originallity. Tame it.

And Maruno has a point. This isn't the "Discuss Multiple Region Idea
Thread". This thread is about different ideas that we would like to see within a fangame, to be used as a trigger for originality. It only takes one post per idea.

Officially closing the multiple region discussion....

I would like to see some type of quest system in fangames.

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 04:18 PM
Say by the end of the game, one that would most likely spand over 150 hours, you still want to play in the post game (unlikely since most RPGs don't include a post game). When you beat the game, the Pokemon availiable in that part of the game should be at equal level to yours, for obvious reasons. You can't seem to understand that the exp requirement being doubled won't take ages.

[long, boring mathematical explanation]

So how can you not see that battling 8 Pikachu, without even using the Lucky Egg, doesn't take "ages".

It may not take "ages" to advance a single level, but when you're trying to do 40 or 50 levels at once, it can really add up. Remember that no matter how you slice it, doubling the experience requirement is going to do just that, make the game take twice as long.

And twice as long is a long time in terms of Pokémon battles. How long do you think it takes to actually battle eight Pikachu? When's the last time you had a Pokémon battle that was over in under 30 seconds?

If there is no post-game, there is no problem, as you've said, as most battles will be plot-related. But why limit a developer's choices? What's wrong with a post-game?

Anyway, since we've decided to close up that topic, I'd like to see more people playing with different mechanics.

It may not be canon, and it may not come off well, but I would really like to see people try and take the training in a new direction completely, even in a direction that would violate most people's sense of Pokémon.

If the official creators can do it (I remember one of the game devs saying, "we want Gen.5 to be a 'Is this really Pokémon?' generation."), why can't fangame makers? The original formula may "work", but it will only "work" for so long.

pkmn.master
August 8th, 2012, 05:01 PM
It may not take "ages" to advance a single level, but when you're trying to do 40 or 50 levels at once, it can really add up. Remember that no matter how you slice it, doubling the experience requirement is going to do just that, make the game take twice as long.

And twice as long is a long time in terms of Pokémon battles. How long do you think it takes to actually battle eight Pikachu? When's the last time you had a Pokémon battle that was over in under 30 seconds?

If there is no post-game, there is no problem, as you've said, as most battles will be plot-related. But why limit a developer's choices? What's wrong with a post-game?

Anyway, since we've decided to close up that topic, I'd like to see more people playing with different mechanics.

It may not be canon, and it may not come off well, but I would really like to see people try and take the training in a new direction completely, even in a direction that would violate most people's sense of Pokémon.

If the official creators can do it (I remember one of the game devs saying, "we want Gen.5 to be a 'Is this really Pokémon?' generation."), why can't fangame makers? The original formula may "work", but it will only "work" for so long. (Now, really?)

Here you are restarting something that has already ended. You aren't limiting anything. Being a developer myself, I can tell that after developing a five-region game, developers don't plan on going any further, and neither do the players. Say if Pokémon battles only consisted of two options when Red and Blue came out: attack and run. If the player attacks, then the match ends if the opposing fighter's HP hits 0, no animations or anything. Not even pictures of characters. Now pretend that Gold and Silver came out, revealing that you now have states other than attack and hp, and battles have animations for moves. Would you complain that the game will take forever because of this innovation? Probably by what you have said so far. If Pokémon originally came out requiring more exp than what it did, you wouldn't say anything. Actually, the exp formula has changed in Black and White. I can name several games that involve leveling up to gain more power taking hours to do so, and still having many fans. And, you can't stop original innovation. There is no point were you draw the line when you are developing a Pokémon fan game, since Pokémon was designed as a simplistic idea-go around and collect and train creatures. The main developer himself stated this. You consider a fan game a Pokémon one when it still holds this idea.


Anyway... Back to the topic.

Dragonite Ernston
August 8th, 2012, 07:30 PM
And, you can't stop original innovation. There is no point were you draw the line when you are developing a Pokémon fan game, since Pokémon was designed as a simplistic idea-go around and collect and train creatures. The main developer himself stated this. You consider a fan game a Pokémon one when it still holds this idea.

I'm not trying to stop it, I'm trying to start it. Too many fan games don't do any original innovation, as you said before.

RaulCortez
August 9th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Something i just recently saw, that's not really about the games themselves, but the way they're presented.

If you're going to make me want to download and play your game, you should introduce me to it with an engaging storyline that i can find interesting enough. Saying things like:

"So um yeah your 12 and your a pokeman trainer and your going to be catching pokeman on this new region thats really cool and misteryous buuut theres like a bad team the team particle that wants yer pekaman"Gah. It hurts to write like that.

Don't do that. Please, don't. Develop a story, a fanfic if you will before resuming it, make it consistant and give it some logic in itself, so that people will read it and not cringe at it. Explain a bit of the storyline, show just enough so people wants to know more about it.

Also, don't present your game when you only have like two or three maps done, not a single original sprite (in case you need them), and not even a decent presentation scheme. People who sees the topic for the first time and finds such a scenario, will most likely won't be visiting again (unless they want to laugh histerically at your fail).

Also, typos. Typos all over the dialogues. Come one naw guise.

PD: I completely understand there's a Beginner's showcase to receive critique and help with these things, but i'd like to think there's a limit in between having a starting point so that you can receive help and a complete utter mess no one even knows how to understand in order to help you develop it.

FL
August 9th, 2012, 04:59 PM
I personally think that is possible to have a game with 10 regions (O__o) if you done it correctly. People need to be less absolute, there are several possibilities that aren't discovered yet.

The vast majority of games only need one region. RB, RS, DP and BW all have one region, and people like them just fine. GS has two regions, but Kanto is very much tacked-on and is on par with other games' post-E4 content rather than being "the second half of the adventure".Several people dislike the new pokémon games for several reasons, this is one.

No, seriously, one region. Your masterpiece is probably too long and convoluted, and would be a better game if you had the sensibility to boil it down. It also means it's less work to do, which means a higher chance of it being completed. Only very exceptional games can be long enough to consider the existence of the level cap (which is just one of the many related issues). Swallow your pride - your game is probably not one of these exceptions.Yes, but this is more about the people incompetence. In 5 years of Essentials first release I can't believe about the lack of completed games. If the people have more competence and the ability to make teams and pass the project to several people, a 5/10 years project is possible.

My main concern, which people never seem to address, is what they would actually do with their multiple regions and how they'd seamlessly link them together. If the only reason the player is jetting off to Hoenn is "because Prof. Oak suggested it", then you should throw away anything you've written after that point - it's not part of the same game. Nostalgia cruise games inevitably involve recreating the official games almost word for word (i.e. start off in the starting towns, with/without your previous Pokémon, progress in the same way through the regions, blah blah blah). No. Bad. And don't come to me saying you have some twists planned - deep down you know why you added the extra region, and if that reason is "I wanted it, and I'll find a way to work it in somehow" then that's a bad reason and you should feel bad. You should do what the game needs, and it never needs someone throwing in extra regions for nostalgia's sake.I agree, but I don't think that a good game that have multiples regions is impossible.

If you're particularly stubborn and still want your 5(/6/7/8) regions in your game, then you'll need to start thinking about that level cap and the related issues (level-up move-learning, evolutions, power escalation, etc.). There have been several proposals in this thread on how to fix this, and they're all rubbish. Raising the level cap just results in unrealistically-levelled wild Pokémon roaming Unova (and involves way too much balancing issues for your liking); halving the Exp gain per battle just makes it twice as hard to level up at the beginning of the game (which is off-putting, and still has balancing issues); and starting a new region afresh with no old Pokémon is the same thing as starting a brand new different game (in which case, make them different games, duh).I don't agree. Half the exp gain may be a nice solution.

The official games match the Pokémon growth (fairly) well to their pace. By the end of the game your Pokémon have grown into pretty much their final form with their final moveset (levelling them up to the cap is academic when nothing else about them is going to change). Some are easier to get to that state, some are harder. The point is that Pokémon and the game both reach the end at around the same point. Adding multiple regions suddenly doubles the length of the plot, while the Pokémon are still geared around a 1-region growth rate. This is why the aforementioned level cap and related issues exist.Suddenly doubles? Only if you recreates the entire region and put higher level for trainers and wild pokémon.

I've been assuming here that there is no such thing as post-game in these fangames, and with good reason. Aside from a few side-quests, the only thing you can do in official games post-game is battle other players and try to complete the local Battle Frontier. These are negated by the fact that PvP isn't available in Essentials, and very few people are going to bother trying to get bragging rights in a fangame's knock-offs of the official games' Frontiers, because to do so is pointless. This just leaves the side-quests, which can either be shifted earlier in the game or left there to do nothing but be the "for completeness" part. Either way, once the main game is finished, there's nothing left to play for. Therefore, no post-game.TOTALLY DISAGREE. There many thing to do after completing the game ignoring PVP like the deprecated main reason: Gotta catch'em all! In official games I spend a huge time completing the Pokédex/Contest/Underground/Battle things/Pokéradar, etc... The part about Battle Frontier in fangames it's just your personal opinion, many people like theses locations.

I talked with several players that beat my game (that doesn't have multiples regions) and, thanks to post-game, some players surpassed the 150 hours mark.

Here are some random ideas I've had about using multiple regions. Their usabilities may vary; I'm just mentioning them regardless of how well they would actually work.


All regions don't need to be the same size. Those islands in FRLG were smaller than Kanto, for instance (well, they felt smaller).
You don't need to be able to visit all parts of a given region. This is of particular interest to those who want to use those regions in their plots rather than just including them for nostalgia cruises. I don't think any plot where you suddenly hop to a new region could cope with having that entire region thrown into it.
You could move back and forth between regions at will, rather than be stuck in a strict linear progression. Puzzles and plot could jump around between the regions. Regions separated by large distances may have some fridge logic to answer to (particularly if the plot becomes ostensibly time-urgent), and people may question why you need two regions when you could use one.
You don't need to play through the regions in the same way the official games do. GS is an example of this, where you start off in Kanto in Vermillion City rather than Pallet Town, and head off in way different directions.
Regions don't need to depict different areas in the same world. How about different layers of existence (world/Shadow Realm/Aether), or parallel realities, or different time periods of the same location?
I agree with these things. You can also make a region with only few places (around 5) accessibles. Example: A Kanto region that have only the area between Pallet and Pewter, plus some things like the area up to Cerulean cave and Digglet Cave surroundings. Using this tip you can make a 4 region game with cost of one!

Thing is, in the case of Pokémon, we're not talking just about moves. We're talking about visuals, the Pokémon themselves.

Let's say i like Tyranitar. I know to get Tyranitar you need to evolve your Larvitar(lvl.30), and then your Pupitar(lvl.55). But you don't like those two, I like Tyranitar. It's badass and I like it. Simple as that. I don't think the average person would wait all you're supposed to wait for them to get all the experience to evolve TWO times before you get the Pokémon you want. Imagine an Arion or even worse, a Deino case.

I agree that the plot is pivotal for a story. And for someone who's NEVER, EVER played a Pokémon game before it would be Ok, since they had no idea how quickly Pokémon gain levels or experience on official games. But to anyone who's played Pokémon before would be thinking why on earth is it taking them so much to make their Pokémon to gain levels for any reason. And why compare them with official games? It's the canon. You're making a fan game using characters out from a franchise, not a completely new game with new monsters. It's obvious people will compare because they're expecting new experiences while keeping the main foundations of that franchise.

Now, this is my personal opinion and view on this based on what i like and enjoy about Pokémon games. Everyone is free to add whatever they like to their games. :)In my game I made a item to make some pokémon like Deino evolve earlier.

Putting EXP gain by half isn't too noticeable like in theory and isn't too hard to accustom. You can also make several things to fix this problem like (only a example) multiplies all levels and gains (with a little fix on exp formula and other things) by ten, so Dragonair evolve in level 550 XD.

The graphics can use a lot as well. Lightning yellow graphics folder is 170MB, though 110MB of that is animated battlers (just Kanto and evos, all animated is 420MB)

It would be close, probably closer to 60MB than 50MB. Lightning yellow is missing the kanto league still, and its data alone is 10MB, the audio is 110 MBI totally forget about the animated battlers, this only counts because of thousands and thousands of sprites. Without counting forms/gender differences there are 4 sprites (backers and shinies) for every 649 pokémon, or 2596 sprites. If you use animated battles these numbers goes insanely high for every sprite. I suggest to people use them scaled in 1:1 and make the Essentials to double the scale for saving a good space. Remember also to don't use bitmap format.

Darkroman
August 9th, 2012, 10:07 PM
First I'd like to point this out... FL, the pic in your sig looks like a wild battle in Ragefire Chasm in World of Warcraft. (Not making fun :) )

So here's a bit of my backstory when it came to playing Pokemon. When I first played pokemon, I was 12 years old (back in 1999, ole Pokemon Blue on the Gameboy). I didn't play it much for the storyline, but rather for the puzzles and just to level my pokemon, evolve them, teach them new moves, and catch them all. When I played first played Gold and Silver (translated Japanese versions, heh), I played for the same reason. The old pokemon games didn't have much of a storyline. It was just pretty much "10 year old boy with a primary color for a name gets pokemon from old guy, and goes out and earns badges with team rocket trying to do nefarious things that kind of getting in your way... no biggie! Here though we'll throw in a city that has to do with dead pokemon and eerie music.. ooOOOoOoooOOoo". Pokemon has ALWAYS been like that, and after Gold and Silver, it got old. I could barely play Ruby/Sapphire, and never even touched the first 4 gen games (besides Heart Gold and Soul Silver, just for updated graphics and nostalgic reasons, however the whole tie in with the primary legendary bird of that game was fantastic).

Then along came Pokemon Black and White... hmm.. a PETA group for pokemon? A darker storyline? A few cinematics?? This might seem interesting! Well.. to my surprise, I played it, beat it, and I THOROUGHLY enjoyed it. Now the only reason why I would like to play Black and White 2 (at all) is for the end-game (post-game) world tournament. All original trainers, gym leaders, champions, etc etc with their teams using strategic movesets and items. Looks fun, and a little challenging. Might take an ounce of planning.

I've read through all these posts and have kind of changed my mind on a "Pokemon with all regions" game. It would be really big, and to tie everything together, while (if you want to go for it) keeping it true to the official games can be real challenging... Possible, but very difficult.

All in all, a fangame HAS to be original, never done before. How about starting back in the ancient times of the pokemon universe... before pokeballs, before pokemon storage computers, and you had to either leave your pokemon with a caretaker that doesn't level your pokemon, or build your own pokemon farm or breeding facility? Maybe the game could make up a way to explain why a trainer can only have 6 pokemon on them at one time, not just because it's "the rules" or "it's for strategic and balancing reasons." Puhhhleeease. Since pokemon has a bit of mysticism in it, have the game be more about the mystic side of it. Something along those lines would be definitely new. Also, instead of fighting an evil organization, your quest actually involves joining a group later on in the game to take down an evil dictator of your people, and one that uses pokemon for nefarious means (like team rocket, but a much bigger scale, with more influence).

shadowriver
August 10th, 2012, 01:02 AM
if you want to have more then one region in game i think its best to have it revolve around a more in-depth story. i agree that if its because oak says so... don’t do it.

maybe have one region as your main setting for gyms ect then have an airport in each region and as you travel to sertin areas in your main region it unlocks other areas in the other regions that way you have access to that regions Pokémon. for example you start in pallet town you then pass the first gym that badge unlocks access to the other regions but only say the first town and city ect that way it keeps it level efficient. and gives you a bit of freedom on were to go ect.then you could do side missions in delivering mail to people across different regions . this way it also makes it a little different from the main games.

khkramer
August 10th, 2012, 02:15 AM
More original stories instead of the standard "you're ten years old and receive your pokemon from the professor"

Dragonite Ernston
August 10th, 2012, 05:41 AM
Maybe the game could make up a way to explain why a trainer can only have 6 pokemon on them at one time, not just because it's "the rules" or "it's for strategic and balancing reasons." Puhhhleeease.

The game designer and mathematician in me says, if you want to test this rule, why not try creating a game where the trainer is not limited to six? How about, say, seven.

With the caveat, of course, that the game is still balanced based upon a team of six.

TheAgentBrandon
August 11th, 2012, 09:38 PM
To be honest since I'm a HUGE fan of the anime my dream game would be having that story-line in each region he's completed so far. And not only does this game consist of you playing as Ash but also the people he traveled with or even his rivals! Playing as characters like Misty until she's a gym leader, Brock to the end of Sinnoh, Gary until he's a researcher, and so on.. Kind of got that idea inspired by games like Sonic Adventure and stuff. I think that would be an extremely great game. It wouldn't happen, but hey I can dream can't I? haha. I also wouldn't mind the same thing involving the manga. Just saying. I mean come on Dragon Ball Z can get 15+ games released with the same story-line (I'm a fan and all but come on!) but the Pokemon Anime can't get 1?! Ridiculous!

Yamiidenryuu
August 12th, 2012, 10:01 AM
To be honest since I'm a HUGE fan of the anime my dream game would be having that story-line in each region he's completed so far. And not only does this game consist of you playing as Ash but also the people he traveled with or even his rivals! Playing as characters like Misty until she's a gym leader, Brock to the end of Sinnoh, Gary until he's a researcher, and so on.. Kind of got that idea inspired by games like Sonic Adventure and stuff. I think that would be an extremely great game. It wouldn't happen, but hey I can dream can't I? haha. I also wouldn't mind the same thing involving the manga. Just saying. I mean come on Dragon Ball Z can get 15+ games released with the same story-line (I'm a fan and all but come on!) but the Pokemon Anime can't get 1?! Ridiculous!
Well, there's Pokemon Yellow... That being said, while Dragonball is an anime first and the games are based on that anime, the Pokemon anime is based on the games... so a game of the anime would be, well, a game based on an anime based on a game. Not that they haven't done that with the TCG (which makes it a game based on a game based on a game...).

I think there's a few fangames kicking around based on the anime's plot. I've seen a FireRed ROM hack, anyway.

DOA_Hitomi
September 10th, 2012, 02:21 PM
Personally, In my fan Game. I would like to replace all of the HMs with Key Items, and Make all TMs reusable like in the 5th Generation games.^^ lol

Matsjo
September 11th, 2012, 04:01 AM
I'd like to see Pokéballs replaced by ApriBalls. Players have to collect the Apricorns themselves and hand them over to craftspeople who make them into Balls for a fee.

The ApriBalls have different functions and aren't differentiated by power (so Fast Ball, Lure Ball instead of Great Ball, Ultra Ball).

This Fan game element should take place in a Poképast.

I almost agree with DOA_Hitomi, but would take it further; remove HMs and implement Key Skills that the player picks up over the game, some of which are only usable with a compatible Pokémon in the team (Teleport, Fly). Players get the Skills from Skill Tutors. And I'd remove TMs entirely and replace them with Move Tutors that cover áll teachable moves (for a price).

Multiple regions are needless, raising the level cap is unnecessary and would be more hassle than its worth. Even two regions is too much for most stories, simply fleshing out a single region enough will do a much better job of providing a fun experience with a proper flow.

Ookiiushidesu
September 11th, 2012, 04:21 PM
hmmm..... I'm gonna put my dollar (I have more than two-cents here XD ) in here.


Being a developer of a fangame, and having played multiple fangames of Pokemon and other games, I totally agree with the person who said don't be too ambitious. In Gen0 we're only going to have two regions (you can explore the Orange Islands), and that is going to be very hard to pull off correctly by itself. Making 5 regions would be hell.

However, it very well could be done. There's a couple key-points people are totally looking over and not bringing up.

1.) The level-cap increase.
People are saying this would be problematic due to levels learned and evolutions. This can be solved in two ways. One, if you're increasing the level cap from 100 to 200 (or 300. 500 would be farrrrr too much), that doubles the levels, or triples it. Then you would simply double or triple the evolution requirements and the move-learning requirements.

Secondly, evolutions. Not -one- person here, that I've seen, has commented on the evolution dynamic of these games. Pokemon is generally centered around 1-2 evolutions at -max-. What if you were to give pokemon 3 evolutions, or even 4? Every pokemon could have the "baby" version, then the normal basic 1st and 2nd evolution, but then maybe even a third. (Pichu, Pikachu, Raichu, Fulchu-fulgor, latin for lightning, idk lol))

This would add a new level of growth and playability. Scale down the stats some, make it balanced, and you have a ton of more content for working with your pokemon.

Also, cross-breeding.


2.) The general flow of the games

Maruno touched on this slightly, I believe. I think someone else did as well. Multiple regions could easily be done (not the amount of work needed, but the balance part) by just changing how the flow of the game works.

In normal games, you start off in home-town and (mostly) linearly travel through and collect your badges. In GS's case, once you defeat the elite four, you move on to the next region collect those badges and get that Elite four.

What's stopping you from making a Morrowind style game? You could pick a region and you would have a starting point in each one to get you going. You could then have access to the entire region, with very little inhibiting your travels. Some regions could have level 50 pokemon a few towns away from lv 5s, and some could have level 80s near where you'd find 30's. If you're increasing the cap it actually lends to help with this dynamic.
With this it would actually kind of force you to travel to -other- regions before fully exploring the one you're on so you can find Pokemon to match your levels.

3.) Starting Fresh
If you go with my aforementioned Morrowind style Pokemon game, you can use a portion of this to your advantage. Let's say the Pokemon world is a little more customs-related.
An elite four certificate would be kind of like a visa. Before you beat the elite four, let's say you can only take like 3 pokemon with you to another region. Maybe they don't want different species into their region (each region does have it's own set of pokemon. Maybe Unova doesn't want Pikachu breeding with their pokemon) Or even better yet, some regions prohibit Pokemon of certain levels, genders, types(fire water etc) or just the fact that the pokemon couldn't be held in their system, so you can't deposit any from another region into their PCs.

This would make you strategically place your team more. If you start in Kanto, you have a team of six and go to Sinnoh, you can't deposit your Charizard Tangela Vaporeon or whatever in Sinnoh's PC so you only take a few with. Maybe the Elite Four certificate could have technology embedded in it where it brings the system up-to-date with your pokemon. Have it work along-side your pokedex so the PCs from different regions can deposit your Pokemon.


This would make it less of

start in this region, power up, move on
go to this region, continue to power up, move on
etc.

It would make you travel more, put more strategy in your teams, etc.

Also, what if there are criminal organizations which succeed in stealing your Pokemon? let's say you keep all of your pokemon in the PC, and they manage to attack that center, they could steal your pokemon. they could run to another region so you have to go there to find them.

Use the story to take you to new regions, and not complete it fully before moving on.

I think this could easily fix that issue. Granted, it would be a HORRIBLE amount of work, but it would be doable.


I'm with most on saying 1-2 regions would be doable.

Without trading or battling, we at Gen0 are going to focus on end-game content more and making the story itself harder. We want the story itself to take you to into the 80s or so for levels without an extreme amount of grinding.

But yeah. That's my thoughts on the all-region thing.





What I want to see in a fan-game is thought and dedication. Like they were saying earlier, if you're making a full fakemon game, don't make super pokemon all over. Give it a good progression. Make more story involved, don't be lazy with the mapping(I hate how all the trees are symmetrical) and keep the players in mind more than your initial kid-at-a-toy-store's desires.

dewdott
September 11th, 2012, 04:25 PM
alot of action i think there should be alot more like pokemon black that was a good game

TheDarkShark
September 12th, 2012, 09:58 AM
Ooookaay, having read the whole thread, mostly laughing at people for various reasons (mostly stupidity and stubborness...) and thinking about how I used to play Pokémon, comparing it with the types of games I play nowadays, I think it's my turn to post, eh?

Most important thing first: some kind of replay-value. If you have a split story line, and even different beginnings to choose from, you're already good to go. I'm not speeking of choosing a starter here, it's more like having the player answer the question "As who do you want to play?" more precisely than "A girl (if even possible)?". Take Dragon Age: Origins as an example: you can not only make your character look the way you want - which also is NOT what I'm talking about here - you choose a race (human, elve, or dwarve), a class (warrior, rogue or mage), and depending on that, you may choose from 1-3 different so-called origins (there's six in total, by the way). Let's say you - like me in my first playthrough - picked the elven rogue; You could the choose whether to start as an elf in the slums or as a so-called 'Dalish elf', basically an exiled elf, living in the forest, in piece with both nature and his clan (it's less clicheé than that, I'm just trying to have you guys understand it).
Let's try to apply this principle to the Pokémon franchise! Assuming you make the player pick a trainer class or something, you could - depending on the class they picked - offer a couple of different introductions to the story. And this is just one possibility, you could also add some kind of random factor, like in the Megaman Battle Network series (I only played the 4th one, but c'mon), even though this might put off some players. Split story lines and decision-based sidequests are other, more common means of adding a replay value. Unlocking higher difficulty-levels or other bonus-features might as well be interesting.
This one - also inspired by Dragon Age - is less practicable for Pokémon games, but I'll put it down anyways: Assuming the player only has a limited amount of... let's just call it "time" for now ...to get to know the important characters, they might want to know about the others, playing the game again, just to get that done. On my first run of DA:O, I played with the party of Alistair, Morrigan, Leliana, like anyone else would have done on the first run. Heck, I even killed Wynne before she joined the party, just not to piss Morrigan off, since I was trying to achieve a romance with her... anyway: I used Oghren a bit, because he's funny, but on my second run (female, human mage btw. ) I tried Oghren, Sten and Zevran. That also was pretty awesome.

Next on my agenda: A moving, hooking and all in all interesting story line. This also involves interesting characters; Even though DA's story wasn't all that creative, it was inscenated almost perfectly. The characters, most of them ready to meet death, had me shaking during the final dialogues, the boss fight got my heart beating like hell and the bad guy really made me hate him, want to kick his FKN ass and yes, rip his head off - something not many games (except for Bulletstorm, maybe) have achieved.

3rd: Getting rid of random encounters. I know, it's one of the most essential things people mentally connect with Pokémon, but let's face it: it pisses almost all the players off in one way or another. Some kind of randomness and reaccessibility (is that an actual word? o.O) to the battles might not be so bad, not allowing the player to "clear" an area, however, just makes me sick.

Finally: Huge worlds not worth exploring. If the player is not rewarded with a cool item, funny dialogue, or at least a beautiful view, they will just get upset and stop 'experiencing' the world you created for him. They will simply start 'skipping through it' on the fastest routes, avoid any unnecessary backtracking and so on. What good is a large world to explore if there isn't even a reason to do so? One way to handle this is to get rid of the Routes as they are in the Pokémon games by implementing a world map where the player can choose where to travel to. Depending on what road they travel on, you can still have some form of random encounter (those shouldn't be like REs in the Pokémon games, rather like a 'on the road'-map, with an event the player might do once, or something like that).

Well, I think that's pretty much all I can think of right now. To sum it up: I don't like to be annoyed by a game, I want to be entertained. The line is very fine, yet graduent.

Kikyana
September 13th, 2012, 06:27 PM
I So Agree On The Fact That We Should Get Ourselves Out Of The Cliche Story Of,

'Hey, I'm a 10 year-old, getting my new pokemon, going on a never-ending journey to defeat all gyms within the region, thwart an evil organization along the way while I'm at it, and defeat the Pokemon League Champion, all the while keeping ahead of my local rival. '


I would really like to just have more friends in the game, really :P

Cause I Find that our main character is always lonely with his 6 in-hand pokemon, going on the journey alone. Not that I want the Hero's mom to tag along or anything like that XD , but What I'm saying is, more of friends who happens to be able to help us. Say, a friend who is a pokemon ranger. They can help in battles and probably, you wouldn't need to battle all the time.



#1 Hopeless Boss Fights
I wonder if anyone has ever tried putting in one of those 'Must lose' battles.
Whereby, you must lose, and they normally let it happen at the start of the story, like getting pummeled right away and losing. That one would be a shocker for sure, and would add to the angst much needed in our O-so too happy, pokemon world. Normally that happens at the beginning of the game, cause you're a low level and all that, and they put a level 100 right in front of you, with Awesome stats, just to get you to surrender the first try.....

We're always winning everyone we meet in the game,

(except unless you get beaten in a battle by a stronger trainer, but technically that all depends on whether if you're lazy or not to train your pokemon, and even if you do lose after training them, you can always save back and the battle loss would have been long forgotten.....)

That we seem to forget the whole thrill of actually losing and actually have the world be put into dire danger for once, cause we as the heroes are always saving the day. So it's nice to lose for a change, but not meaninglessly of course, make it touching and I'll probably fall for your game XD


#2 Different Goals Or Main Plot
Yeah, we're all clear on the fact that everyone is alright with being a 10-year-old who saves the day, EVERYDAY. But I'm sure no one would complain if someone changed destiny, and decided that we should be doing something else instead of being the strongest pokemon trainer in the world. Most people should be thrilled to try the game. More rivals would heat things up too in my opinion, Lol~ Cause One ain't enough ahaha~ Maybe you can be the villain instead XD

TheMrQuit
September 19th, 2012, 06:40 AM
What i would like to see from a pokemon game is something unique in the first place. If i just have to play a normal pokemon game, i could just play the original ones. I would like for example a good story or strange gameplay mechanics.
I don't really care if there aren't all the 649 pokemon or all the characters from the previous games. I'd like less, but better done, because i always see big projects and i know most of them won't be finished or they'll be rushed. Good luck to everyone who is making a fan game! :)

poke-world
September 22nd, 2012, 07:01 PM
It makes more sense that you have your Pokemon evolved by the time you head out to the next region, and I see no problem with this, since all of the trainers on the next region will have their Pokemon fully evolved and match your level. So, actually, it is as simple as bumping up the level, if you don't want to put that much work into it. Not only that, but increasing the amount of exp gain to the next level could easily throw that problem away.

FirEmerald
October 2nd, 2012, 04:53 PM
...is a player that can actual jump!
it's so weird that you can jump onto a flying pokemon or a surfing pokemon, but when your walking, your feet never leave the ground!

Anglican
October 2nd, 2012, 05:14 PM
...is a player that can actual jump!
it's so weird that you can jump onto a flying pokemon or a surfing pokemon, but when your walking, your feet never leave the ground!
Defying the basics of Pokémon are we?
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/251878_360193447384481_2126463383_n.jpg

Yamiidenryuu
October 2nd, 2012, 07:20 PM
...is a player that can actual jump!
it's so weird that you can jump onto a flying pokemon or a surfing pokemon, but when your walking, your feet never leave the ground!
Obviously, you'll need a Pokemon that knows Bounce before you can jump in the overworld. Just jump on its back and... no, wait a moment.

FirEmerald
October 3rd, 2012, 01:48 PM
Ha, ha. very funny. I just think it's weird how the player can jump onto pokemon, hop on the acro bike, jump off one platform to another in the distortion world, and hop off ledges, yet can't even manage a single pixel otherwise.

Arma
October 3rd, 2012, 02:12 PM
One thing that bothers me:
In the majority of fangames, people don't edit the Pokemon's stats/movepool/abilities etc. Making it almost identical to playing the official games. Just a few changes could make a game a lot more interesting. Heck, even just changing the Pokedex entries or move descriptions would make a game more fun to play for me. (It actually seems like something new that way)

Some other things I like to see are:

less linearity; Multiple routes to get through a town, an increase in fieldmoves (HMs) so there are multiple ways to get through a cave or something.

I'll post more when I think of other things.

the__end
October 3rd, 2012, 02:14 PM
Ha, ha. very funny. I just think it's weird how the player can jump onto pokemon, hop on the acro bike, jump off one platform to another in the distortion world, and hop off ledges, yet can't even manage a single pixel otherwise.

well its a game where you make giant monsters into slaves with little balls...
do not expect much realism there... <.<
maybe it bothers you that you cant go to the toilet as well? :D

Anglican
October 4th, 2012, 01:13 PM
Ha, ha. very funny. I just think it's weird how the player can jump onto pokemon, hop on the acro bike, jump off one platform to another in the distortion world, and hop off ledges, yet can't even manage a single pixel otherwise.
He doesn't jump off ledges, he falls off them in style, but other that that yeah... Bit sad really...

Then again, this game we're talking about has a pidgin, like pidgey, can learn FLY.. ever looked at the size comparison between pidgey and player???

Also, I want 3-type's in a Pokémon. And cross-evolution. Like, if a lvl 100 venusaur, lvl 100 charizard and lvl 100 blastoise are in your party, they are all removed and a lvl 1 Blastisaur is now there. Water, Fire and Grass. No evo's

Maruno
October 4th, 2012, 01:57 PM
Also, I want 3-type's in a Pokémon. And cross-evolution. Like, if a lvl 100 venusaur, lvl 100 charizard and lvl 100 blastoise are in your party, they are all removed and a lvl 1 Blastisaur is now there. Water, Fire and Grass. No evo's
We already have Fusion Digivolution. It's called Kyurem. And it's a bad idea.

Cilerba
October 4th, 2012, 02:04 PM
It'd be neat to see a Pokémon game that has an open world. It'd be pretty great to not have to stick to the storyline and roam around.

Anglican
October 5th, 2012, 12:11 PM
We already have Fusion Digivolution. It's called Kyurem. And it's a bad idea.

Yeah... the Blastisaur was a bad idea. But I think 3 types would allow for greater creativity in games.

Umbreon
October 6th, 2012, 05:53 AM
A harder game to crack, seriously I can crack 90% of games here in 2 minutes. (if that)

You know like maybe encrypt the save I mean anyone can just put the save into an editable version of essentials and completely hack pokemon and items into it.

the__end
October 6th, 2012, 08:32 AM
A harder game to crack, seriously I can crack 90% of games here in 2 minutes. (if that)

You know like maybe encrypt the save I mean anyone can just put the save into an editable version of essentials and completely hack pokemon and items into it.

well its your decision if you crack it or not... :)
just do it if you want to ruin the fun or make it to easy...
if the game is not multiplayer its not the developers problem if you cheat... :P

Umbreon
October 6th, 2012, 09:32 AM
well its your decision if you crack it or not... :)
just do it if you want to ruin the fun or make it to easy...
if the game is not multiplayer its not the developers problem if you cheat... :P

I am actually pointing something out, I don't really even bother downloading games let alone cheat, but either way you are right.

Sabrewulf238
October 6th, 2012, 11:06 AM
Really my biggest peeve when it comes to fan games is when they have poor grammar and spelling.

I'm nowhere near a grammar nazi but my goodness sometimes you see really really poor writing in a fan game and it just throws everything off.

I'm not sure if this is too much to ask....but I would like to see a fan game that includes every pokemon. (That currently exists) Ever since the fourth generation games came out it's pretty jarring not being able to get a particular pokemon.

Shuang
October 8th, 2012, 07:49 PM
Well, one thing that I would personally love is letting the hero become the player, not the opposite way around. Who said that I'm a 10 year old boy who's super nice. Maybe I'm actually a 113 year old creep. For example, I don't know if this is possible, but maybe make the hero a category of players like 10 and under between 10 and 20, and 20 and above. Also, don't put in too much dialogue for the hero, or put in multiple choices.

casualsden
October 12th, 2012, 02:22 PM
I don't like these in pokémon games:

- HM moves. I'd rather have them as items, at least the weak/crappy ones.

- Pokemon needing special conditions to evolve, for example Kadabra needing to be traded to evolve. Not good when the fan made game is not as active as when it was released. You can't find anyone to trade. An in-game trade center or something like that would be nice or trading with npc trainers in the game.

- Berries. They are just put in games to add extra game time imo. They are too troublesome to raise and collect.

- Grinding. Considering official games can make you grind forever sometimes, I think it would be good to reduce it to an extent in fan made games.

Shasjas
March 29th, 2013, 06:38 AM
sorry to be a necromancer (this isnt the sort of thread that can "die" though).
But I was thinking, surely theres a way to make a pokemon game based on different mechanics, not leveling up.
The problem with leveling up is you can end up beating the major trainers, like the gym leaders, just by having higher level pokemon, not by having a good plan. In the small amount of anime ive watched (just the kanto and johto series) there was no mention of the level of pokemon. I think this is because its not a very natural idea, its a very "gamey" idea.
surely we can think of something better.

OPSdoesLPs
April 3rd, 2013, 04:28 AM
Id' honestly love to see cameos of old spinoff characters such as Michael and Wes, I mean Pokemon Nightmare did something similar to this by having Michael in their game but I mean exact overworld sprites and alil more story

Anglican
April 15th, 2013, 05:33 PM
sorry to be a necromancer (this isnt the sort of thread that can "die" though).
But I was thinking, surely theres a way to make a pokemon game based on different mechanics, not leveling up.
The problem with leveling up is you can end up beating the major trainers, like the gym leaders, just by having higher level pokemon, not by having a good plan. In the small amount of anime ive watched (just the kanto and johto series) there was no mention of the level of pokemon. I think this is because its not a very natural idea, its a very "gamey" idea.
surely we can think of something better.
That'd be really cool

And yeah, it just seems like the battles are all about having the strongest Pokemon, rather then any strategy, one thing I'd love to see in a game is exactly that - strategy. In the Pokemon games, you could, essentially, train your starter to level 100 before even challenging the first NPC. It'd be a lot of work, but you'd win for sure. So that's something I'd like to see

Patrick
April 15th, 2013, 06:41 PM
I know I'm in the extreme minority, so much so that'd I'd be better off typing this in like the YoYo Games community or something, but how about a Pokemon game... that's not based on the trainer games?

The monsters have so much character potential. Or failing that, natural potential. Certainly a bunch of creative minds can come up with something that's not another RPG with the same mechanics we can get for 39.99 at a super store, right? http://nohomers.net/images/smilies/confused.gif

Though to a lot of people's credit, there's some talent that can come up with amazing stuff and for free at that.

"Well, what would you propose?"

I dunno, perhaps we can turn to Pokesho for some inspiration? The right kind of inspiration, that is. Not the unapologetic fanservice. Personally, I'd be all in for a beat 'em up done right with fluid sprite animations. Heck, I might even jump in on that one if it doesn't take itself seriously.

ChaosLord
April 15th, 2013, 07:17 PM
For the whole challenge aspect of a Pokemon game, why not just Nuzlocke it? There's a lot of different variations of a locke run which wipes out the overlevel thing cause a Pokemon's considered "dead", and if not that, there's always catering a fangame to competitive battling like Pokemon Reborn has showed.

Shadowraze
April 15th, 2013, 08:49 PM
I would like to see new minigames and features that will thrill the player and love it like the rest of the video games today.

An awesome storyline will be great too, plus graphical presentation of the game is important too. Also a good first impression of the game will be great to hook the players to the game.

BenGames,Films, and More!
April 30th, 2013, 12:07 PM
What's so good about this?
You really want to battle with your 100 levels against trainers' level 100s?
If you think you won't have level 100s, you will ;)
In the third or fourth region your Pokémon party will surely be 100 level and to balance it, trainers would also have to have level 100s...
Not to mention 5th region... that would be simple overkill with base trainers having at least 5 level 100s...

There could be a script where you can't get your pokemon from a previous region until post hall of fame in that region

Jean mi
August 28th, 2013, 02:56 PM
May I revive this thread ? :D

I have a few ideas of stuff I would like :

1) Different themes for gym leaders or any important trainer :
- look-based theme like dog theme, humanoid theme, mono-colour theme etc
- strategy-based theme like high att pokes, all pokes having boosting stats like swords dance, weather based theme, etc

It could be for example for 8 gyms :
Mono dog
Mono cat
Mono rodent
Mono humanoid
Mono item-based (voltorb, chandelure, etc)
Mono reptile
Mono dinosaur
Mono bird (many flying types + Blaziken and Empoleon)

Elite 4 :
Hail team
Sun team
Sand team
Rain team

2) After completing pokemon Colosseum and XD, I really enjoyed the double battles and I would like to see a fan-made game based on double battles. It could also have an emphasis on moves made for doubles like helping hand, wide guard by giving them a TM or move tutor status.

There would be additional themes for gym leaders in this hack as well such as surf+water absord/storm drain, trick room team, tailwind team, earthquake + flying/levitate etc.

I don't know if doubles are popular enough though, I still think they're under appreciated. I'd prefer 4th gen+ mechanics though, pokemon essential mechanics for doubles are still at 3rd gen afaik.

Crimson Hunter
September 2nd, 2013, 08:10 PM
I think many thing can make or break a pokemon game all the things im about to say will almost never happen but hey game freak must pay attention to there fans after all we did get a anime with the original red so let me take a crack at it
1. All 1000+ pokemon catchable including starters you may ask what do you mean 1000 + well lets take into account all the forms,eveolutions, plus i expect a good pokemon game to update as soon as gamefreak makes a new region with new pokemon
2. Major type changing for starters electivire and magmotar WHY ARE THEY NOT FIGHTING ASWELL AS FIRE AND ELECTRIC scyther and gyarados (if you have a flying type why can you not learn any flying type moves)?!!
3. every singal region adding more also ( all people do is cry when they hear all regions if you don want dont play its as simple as that) also why not have a fresh start system also you cannot catch a pokemon that you got over level 50 in the region before so you would want to force yourself to go and use nu pokemon first so you will conserve intell the very last region.
4. pokemon follow you duh i shouldnt even have to explain why that made yellow and hg/ss the best pokemon games
5.completley mmorpg it will be a 3d model 3rd person shooter like wow but gamefreak will make 10x the revenue also fighting and trading with other people will be revelutionised and the update with new region thing will take a little update also people could make there own servers making you live your own singleplayer or multiplayer experience excluding some pokemon or regions maybe even remakeing some pokemon hacks or making your own special pokemon editing the battle system to have unlimited moves like super pokemon eevee edition or grapchics to be 1st gen or 2th gen
6. get rid of the dang trade evolution system we didnt like it in 1st gen we dont like it now seriously what if you trade your electabuzz for a machoke and the guy wont give it back that happens all the time it isnt just mmo's in the future if you blame someone gamefreak for people missing there magmotar and gengar for level 5 rattata its you guys.


Well Thats my list I Know it long but if you want a perfect pokemon game some of these are valied points also sorry for gramar kinda in a hurry ;) (pre ordering x and y yay)

joeyhugg
September 3rd, 2013, 08:34 AM
3. every singal region adding more also ( all people do is cry when they hear all regions if you don want dont play its as simple as that) also why not have a fresh start system also you cannot catch a pokemon that you got over level 50 in the region before so you would want to force yourself to go and use nu pokemon first so you will conserve intell the very last region.


Someone didn't read this thread at We had a giant argument about this topic.

zingzags
September 3rd, 2013, 09:54 AM
Smarter AI, prioritizing movesets, making sure each skill is compatible with the entire party (do not know if this is all handled inside, it has been a while since I checked through).

Saving Raven
September 3rd, 2013, 10:14 AM
I think many thing can make or break a pokemon game all the things im about to say will almost never happen but hey game freak must pay attention to there fans after all we did get a anime with the original red so let me take a crack at it
1. All 1000+ pokemon catchable including starters you may ask what do you mean 1000 + well lets take into account all the forms,eveolutions, plus i expect a good pokemon game to update as soon as gamefreak makes a new region with new pokemon
2. Major type changing for starters electivire and magmotar WHY ARE THEY NOT FIGHTING ASWELL AS FIRE AND ELECTRIC scyther and gyarados (if you have a flying type why can you not learn any flying type moves)?!!
3. every singal region adding more also ( all people do is cry when they hear all regions if you don want dont play its as simple as that) also why not have a fresh start system also you cannot catch a pokemon that you got over level 50 in the region before so you would want to force yourself to go and use nu pokemon first so you will conserve intell the very last region.
4. pokemon follow you duh i shouldnt even have to explain why that made yellow and hg/ss the best pokemon games
5.completley mmorpg it will be a 3d model 3rd person shooter like wow but gamefreak will make 10x the revenue also fighting and trading with other people will be revelutionised and the update with new region thing will take a little update also people could make there own servers making you live your own singleplayer or multiplayer experience excluding some pokemon or regions maybe even remakeing some pokemon hacks or making your own special pokemon editing the battle system to have unlimited moves like super pokemon eevee edition or grapchics to be 1st gen or 2th gen
6. get rid of the dang trade evolution system we didnt like it in 1st gen we dont like it now seriously what if you trade your electabuzz for a machoke and the guy wont give it back that happens all the time it isnt just mmo's in the future if you blame someone gamefreak for people missing there magmotar and gengar for level 5 rattata its you guys.

most of your "make or break" suggestions are very subjective - I myself do like mmorpg's for many reasons, one of which if nothing else is having to deal with other people
1. while I fervently believe one should be able to "catch 'em all" many people don't like this idea, and instead go on and make their own pokemon, and a brand new region with a complete pokedex of new pokemon - many people find it lazy or not challenging enough to make a game that includes existing pokemon, as anyone can do that, though your suggestion is a goal of my own game
2. that is entirely one's opinion, I know many people who would rather have a "canon" fan-game, and don't like major changes in evolutions, typing, and movepools, though you bring up a good point about having a type, but no moves for that type
3. I do not even have to give a response to that...
4. That is not only difficult to implement, but also challenging to manage - and those who have it implemented tend to not share it, and instead keep it as a personal feature for their own games, since they had to do all the work - but again, its subjective as I also know people who hated that part, and thought it should have been very different, or if nothing else, not even implemented

daking1991
September 15th, 2013, 01:19 AM
OK I know this may have been suggested so please excuse me if it has. I've been thinking about creating a new game for ds unfortunately I haven't got the know how nor the resources to do so. But I'm an old school gamer who thinks that the original Gameboy games such as blue, red etc... need a revamp. I would like the idea that Pokémon up to 2nd gen are included but into the storyline of the original games where you start in pallet town and work through. That was my first memory of the Pokémon franchise and I still think they were the best however lacking in visual and usability features so a revamp into lets say HG would be awesome. Any ideas.

joeyhugg
September 15th, 2013, 05:38 AM
OK I know this may have been suggested so please excuse me if it has. I've been thinking about creating a new game for ds unfortunately I haven't got the know how nor the resources to do so. But I'm an old school gamer who thinks that the original Gameboy games such as blue, red etc... need a revamp. I would like the idea that Pokémon up to 2nd gen are included but into the storyline of the original games where you start in pallet town and work through. That was my first memory of the Pokémon franchise and I still think they were the best however lacking in visual and usability features so a revamp into lets say HG would be awesome. Any ideas.

That would go in this thread: http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=305573

Also, if you need graphics, you can browse the resources section here or DeviantART.

charizard is best
September 15th, 2013, 05:47 AM
In fan-made hacks, I like to see some fakemon or some good artwork. But really, I just want to be able to catch 'em all!
I know it's my destiny!

daigonite
September 17th, 2013, 05:28 PM
I kinda wish someone would do something different because all the fangames feel so... samey.

TheAmazingSpiderMan
September 27th, 2013, 03:10 AM
I always want all Unova and Sinnoh pokemons in one game. and how about mega evolution. i want a game with strong pokemons, gym, league and other things. and also some generation vii pokemons in the game. waiting for X and y How great will it be ?

Roaming Murkrow
October 23rd, 2013, 11:07 AM
I want a game that is split in 2 versions like the main games, the only difference would be that each version covers 2 regional pokemon, so if you chose version 1 you have Kanto or Johto for example, and if you pick version 2 you have Hoenn and Sinnoh pokemons that you can encounter. also maybe in game trades to get pokemon from the other region.

also little to no grinding would be nice. play through the game until the part with the gym leader/NPC needed to defeat, and make their levels 1-3 levels more than your current pokemon's levels.

Pokemonfan1986
October 27th, 2013, 01:30 AM
Indeed one game with two versions would be great and please next time complete in 3D..

Edward Newgate
October 27th, 2013, 02:25 AM
Hmm, what would be really cool would be a game where it's not all about "Gather 8 gym badges and do the pokémon league".
Maybe a game where the emphasis isn't much on the league, or even rebuild the line to remove badges and the league, and include something new like one of the fangames here has (I forgot its name, but I know there is at least 1 game which has removed the line of badges+league)

Java's Missingno.
October 27th, 2013, 01:15 PM
Time for my shopping list when it comes to fangames:

Personally, I'd like to see smaller scopes on fangames. Very few large-scale fangames become a reality; most are abandoned as soon as the project lead decides it's too much work to do "That game where you can see all the Pokemons and go to all teh regions and battle all the evil teams and.." etc, etc. Seriously. Drop it down to a small group, like 100-150 Pokemon that are fun to play, a single region(maybe 2 if you're 100% sure that you can keep it interesting), and try to write compelling characters of your own.

More creativity mechanics-wise. Pokemon Essentials is an AMAZING tool for creating fangames, but I'd like to see less games use it. Why? Because it already HAS the default battle systems. Get creative! There are a few games which use action-based battle systems instead of the standard turn-based, but take it a step further! Remove stuff that would take away from the fun of your game. For instance, what happens if you strip away IVs, natures, and EVs from a Pokemon battle system? You have a game where every instance of a Pokemon's species is the same, yes, but you gain a simpler system where you KNOW where a Pokemon's strengths and weaknesses lie.

Heck, throw out the 6-stat system! Figure out what the basic attributes of a Pokemon are in your world, and come up with a system from that! Take nothing for granted. After all, Pokemon is a world where kids can go on adventures with magic animals. If THAT doesn't spark your imagination, I'm sorry to tell you that maybe game design might not quite be your thing.

All of this kinda boils down to "know what you can do." Packing 720+ monsters into a single game may be a bit extreme, but there's a HUGE realm of possibilities for a Pokemon fangame alone, and I'd really like to see more developers live up to that potential when they come up with a project.