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View Full Version : The "Problem" with Nintendo @ Japan


Miss Doronjo
July 14th, 2013, 11:01 AM
I thought that a certain article I've found would be interesting for an open discussion. So it all begins with Shigeru Miyamoto, developer, sitting down with 4Gamer, talking about the Japanese market (since from what I've heard, the Wii U isn't doing too well there?). He talked about how Japanese players don't enjoy harder games, while the gamers of the West enjoy the challenge. Or, as he stated in the quote below:

“I’ve been making action games for some 30 years, and I’ve been thinking about the difference evident in how their popularity has been gradually declining in Japan whilst in America it has been maintained. The issue is that Japanese who cannot overcome the level of difficulty in an action game no longer want to play them. This perception then spreads to all games as a whole, and people avoid them because they see them as difficult.”

“In the case of America, there are a lot more people who enjoy a challenge and will stick with it for you and try to overcome the initial hurdle. Yes, it’s action games which really demand a certain level of skill. Right, some players just enjoy playing, some prefer to finish it, and some prefer greater challenge. People looking for a challenge will dismiss an easily cleared game as “easy.” But by making things too difficult, the people who just want to play get driven off. I always wanted to accommodate both types.”

...Of course, in regards to this 'controversy', the Japanese gamers apparently didn't take this lying down, so to speak. The quotes shown below are the quotes that the Japanese gamers said in the response of Miyamoto's claim:

“Yes, yes. It’s all the fault of the Japanese.”

“The reason they declined was because of idiots like this blaming everything on their customers.”

“It’s because they only know how to make games for children now.”

“Nintendo, the reason you’ve declined is because of your endless remakes, that’s all.”

“Certainly, you need perseverance to play on the Wii U. Holding that horribly heavy pad was just too much for me.”

“I suppose all this is why pay-to-win social games are all the rage now.”

“If you are a kid with no money but lots of free time taking your time on a difficult game makes sense, but if you are an adult with money but no free time the opposite is true.”

“Games recently are too simple. You should die if you make one slight mistake.”

“Who wants to play a game where if you miss one pixel on the screen it is an instant game over.”

“Now things are split between lots of casuals and a few hardcore gamers. You can’t meet their requirements at the same time.”

“The gaming audience has aged and no longer has time for the hassle of difficult action games.”

“People talk like difficulty determines how much fun a game is. It is the other way around really – a game has to be fun to make you keep playing and enjoying the challenge.”

“The real issue is not the difficulty but the level of effort you have to consider investing to overcome a given level of difficulty.”

“Japanese just get bored of them more easily.

“I seem to recall a lot of western games used to be very difficult. Then they got dumbed down and sold more as a result. Really I think the Japanese games aren’t selling because of a lack of ideas though.”

“Wait, if what he is saying about Japanese being quitters is true how come Monster Hunter is so popular still? Don’t overseas players moan about it being too difficult?”

“I don’t get him at all. He’s blaming the fact their action games sell like hot cakes in America but not in Japan on the Japanese? Blaming your customers is hardly a good business strategy…”

“Well, you rarely see western games so difficult nobody can complete them…”

“Gaming demographics just differ in the US and Japan, and the ones in the US tend to be more committed?”

“Games are supposed to be fun. Playing them needn’t be treated as an act of self-mortification.”

As you can see, they... didn't take it too lightly. But still, what do you think of both of these cases? Is there more fun with video games that are presented as a challenge, or otherwise? Would you agree to Miyamoto and/or the Japanese gamers' in their points? What do you think of this issue in general? Like always, feel free to share thoughts.

By the way, the source that I used was from the mynintendonews website.

Spartacus
July 14th, 2013, 11:13 AM
I have to agree with the gamers' perspective. Shouldn't be blaming the customers for the lack of sales, it's incredibly likely to be the makers of the games. I do sort of agree with the lack of ideas quote, because a lot of what the Japanese tend to make now are remakes, not many original games. Gaming is growing, and better things are expected, if companies stick to the same ideas in their games there will be no advance thus selling less games.

TRIFORCE89
July 14th, 2013, 11:16 AM
I'll have a more thought out post later, but short of it... I'd put my money on the company with entire departments and teams devoted to market research from a wide-view approach then I would a subset of vocal fans.

Pinkie-Dawn
July 14th, 2013, 12:27 PM
This whole challenge controversy sounds more like another Casual vs. Hardcore debate if you ask me, which are fairly common in broken fanbases such as Nintendo's. What I do fear, however, is that the Japanese gamers could soon rebel against Nintendo and drive them out of the gaming market until they get what they want, much like how Microsoft reversed their DRM with the Xbox One due to the backlash.

Magic
July 14th, 2013, 01:38 PM
I feel like this is a really odd statement to make. Nintendo themselves do tend to back 'easy' or 'straightforward' games - however there are plenty of advances games (on Nin or other consoles) which do really well in Japan.

Basically, it looks like they're just making excuses.

Unknown#
July 14th, 2013, 02:58 PM
First off, I'd like to point out how ironic it is that Miyamoto is saying that, because 25 years ago Nintendo thought the opposite, that a more difficult game wouldn't sell well overseas (hence why Super Mario Bros. 2 (j) wasn't released in the US until Super Mario All Stars).

Second, I don't think its a case of games being too hard as its a case of games not being original. As has been stated earlier, it seems like most of the games coming out of Japan are sequels and remakes to existing series, instead of games that are original ideas.

physi1
July 14th, 2013, 03:21 PM
I'd like to point out that games *can* be easy and enjoyable at the same time.
I'm sure everyone has there own specific games that meet these criteria but they do exist.
On the other hand sometimes games need to give you a kick in the pants as one of a number of ways to keep them interesting. However I don't think difficulty can be used exclusively and have a positive effect in that regard.

With respect to the comments, I feel that it wasn't a discriminative statement, merely stating the demographics which could be based on something as simple as sales figures.
I agree with the opinion that Nintendo needs to innovate more to an extent. SM Galaxy was successful because it did something new and exciting. Pikmin was a new and relatively small IP born on the Gamecube and is still going strong. That said, as someone who, much to my dismay, never had a Gamecube, the Windwaker re-make does have me very excited, although a new Zelda would as well and in a time/reward scenario I would have preferred a VC release and a new game.

But at any rate, outside of speculation nothing will come from this article and rebound alone, for better and arguably for worse

Spinosaurus
July 14th, 2013, 03:51 PM
Holy crap, it's hilarious how the comments contradict each other.

Also what "action games" did Miyamoto make? Legend of Zelda is the only thing in my mind right now.

EDIT: that source is fishy, can you link to it? Every single Wii U related 4gamer interview that I could find doesn't include that particular comment.

Miss Doronjo
July 14th, 2013, 04:03 PM
Holy crap, it's hilarious how the comments contradict each other.

Also what "action games" did Miyamoto make? Legend of Zelda is the only thing in my mind right now.

EDIT: that source is fishy, can you link to it? Every single Wii U related 4gamer interview that I could find doesn't include that particular comment.

Here (http://mynintendonews.com/2013/07/14/miyamoto-says-japanese-gamers-are-quitters-and-dont-enjoy-hard-games/) & Here (http://mynintendonews.com/2013/07/14/japanese-gamers-respond-to-miyamotos-claims/). Or you can see their twitter page here. (https://twitter.com/MyNintendoNews)

I've always thought it was a pretty good source since they haven't had false info (at least as far as I know).

Spinosaurus
July 14th, 2013, 04:11 PM
Apparently they got that from Sankaku Complex which is apparently notorious for posting fake info. It's also a hentai site.

This is fake. I thought it was fishy in the first place when the only places that did include that particular comment was the Nintendo enthusiast sites and how that Miyamoto comment was pretty contradictory of his game design philosophy. Oh, and the "action games".

Dunno about the comments though. They're all written in the same style which is super fishy (and completely out of line with the usual japanese gamer's style of writing), so I think it's safe to say they're fake too. Not to mention that, on the contrary, Japan LOVES hard games. (see: Monster Hunter and Demon/Dark Souls)

Miss Doronjo
July 14th, 2013, 04:18 PM
Apparently they got that from Sankaku Complex which is apparently notorious for posting fake info. It's also a hentai site.

This is fake. I thought it was fishy in the first place when the only places that did include that particular comment was the Nintendo enthusiast sites and how that Miyamoto comment was pretty contradictory of his game design philosophy. Oh, and the "action games".

Dunno about the comments though. They're all written in the same style which is super fishy (and completely out of line with the usual japanese gamer's style of writing), so I think it's safe to say they're fake too.

Is this really fake? oo;

Hmm, well, thinking more about this, this being fake does makes sense I guess, when everyone says that it was odd for him to make these comments. @__@;


EDIT: Okay, I see their primary source now; and yeah, it does look... iffy. Well, I guess nothing more to say but, until a more legitimate source arise, there's really no point on discussing this, so, I'll lock this... for now. But thanks for the heads up~

*lock*