Do you think may and ash are meant to be i do.

[shadoweyes11]

do you think may and ash are meant to be i do because misty had her chance to get ashes heart but she choose to go with her sisters than may came and i really do think that there will be a love bond in may and ash :D :classic:

[Asura Nirosuki]

Im not so sure.....May is a 10 girl.She doesn't know the true meaning for love or able to be dating.If she was older she can do whatever she wants!.Ash is ready for dates but not May.Don't force a 10 year old.

[shadoweyes11]

May is not ten years old she is the same age as ash. ;)

[Asura Nirosuki]

Cool to belive that.If you watch the series May is a 10 year old Girl whos dream is to be a pokemon connidor.<Did i spell that right? O.o.

[Kiryuu]

Well they said the same about Ash in the first ep if that is your attitude.
Personally they both look the same age to me.
They both look like teens.

[shadoweyes11]

I sure do agree 100% with totodile :D

[Asura Nirosuki]

O.O it seems i hurt a lot of people saying that.*seems no different from pokeshippers*

[Porygon]

Mwar, May knows about love. Just look at that episode with the Volbeat. It's Ash who's mind is set on Pokémon and nothing else.

[ashley03]

i think..no,they are not.may is more of a rich guys girl,ash is a mama's boy..well kinda..

[Crystal Clair]

First of all May is ten (stated in first AG episode, I also believe Japanese version too), Ash is ten (stated in first ever episode). Face it, characters dont age. If they would, they'd say so.
Plus Ash doesn't like May in the romantic way. I think May looks up to Ash like a fan looks up to an idol. And the reason Ash is so protective of May is because he knows she's his responsibility because he feels her parents put trust into him to take care of May and Max.
The PokeShipping, which I think is more likely to happen
So many hints in the anime, even in the Japanese version
Ash and Misty have been with each other for a long time. They both know each other. Maybe they like each other as brother and sister or best friends. But it seems Misty is in love with Ash sometimes like in Love, Pokemon Style when Macey/Moe asks Ash out on a date and Misty acts jealous, and then when Macey/Moe asks who she is and why she's butting in on his personal life, Misty says she's Ash's coach and then Macey wonders why a coach would but into romance and Misty BLUSHES. Sorry if that took long.
Ash, some like EliteTrainerRaven say he is too dense to realize love. Others say Ash's not dense enough because he had a crush on Giselle from early Kanto. And some others say that crushes aren't the same as love.
To this, I do think he loves Misty in in a close way like a brother-sister type of thing because of the way he acted in "Gotta Catch Ya Later" but Takeshi was also leaving.
This leaves me confused...........

[yoshi1001]

My feeling is that at the present both of them are too involved in their work to get involved with anyone anytime soon. Besides, their fields of intrest are fairly incompatable with each other and would eventualkly lead to problems. In fact that's true of Brock and Misty as well.

Sometimes it seems like you can just throw two people within 10 feet of each other and people start crying "shipping!"

[Arigeitsu159]

Sometimes it seems like you can just throw two people within 10 feet of each other and people start crying "shipping!"

*laughs* That's classic (and true!).

[buster_wolf]

First of all May is ten (stated in first AG episode, I also believe Japanese version too), Ash is ten (stated in first ever episode). Face it, characters dont age. If they would, they'd say so.


Hahaha! Sounds a lot like the Simpsons. Bart and Lisa have been in the same grade for like... an X amount of years. XD

[cold_katanagirl]

Advanceshipping > Pokeshipping. In my opinion of course.

Although, I don't think May is really into Ash. She's probably more into Drew. Because writers can never think of original couples these days. Not that I don't like Contestshipping...

I don't think Ash is into either Misty nor May. Or anybody, they have to be INCREDIBLY good looking for Ash to notice them. Call me dense/stupid/ignorant/blind/whatever, but I don't think Ash likes anybody.

I don't even want to get started on Pokeshipping.

[Ash_Pokemaster]

X.X Ash+Misty 3ever, we all know that and Misty had told (ok with her potition) in Orange lehue episdes at the 3rd Gym I think that she love Ash.
Anyway May is 10 or 11...
Look, in the Third movie mini Ash said that he has completed a year with Pika... So, let's say that a Character get an age every three movies Ash os 13 8 movies and one special movie with him so...

[MewthreeXL]

The narrarator said it had been almost a year when they were in Viridian City.

[Sato]

Yeah, if you ask me Ash is at least 13 by the start of AG...

[Sayuri no Hoshi]

People, people, people! You know, when PC makes stickied threads in forums...they're not made to be invisible to the members' eye. O_o;; That's the vibe I'm getting nowadays, heh. There's a thread in here called The Official Shipping Debate Thread (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=33766) where you could very well have discussed this topic. Use it wisely! ^_^ (Now that there are a lot of replies in here already, I might as well keep this open for the heck of it...*sigh*)

[shadoweyes11]

ash and may are for each other!!!!!!!!1 :bandit:

[Crystal Clair]

ash and may are for each other!!!!!!!!1
Listen. I dont go around saying "Clair and Liza are for each other!!!!!11111. That stuff I keep in my signature. And that is counted as spam IRC. Now I'm no mod, I'm just trying to help you stay out of trouble because I'm a nice person (at least I try to be).

[Ridley-X4]

Yeah! What Crystal Clair said!

But give the guy/gal a break, this member is new here.

[Pokemon Trainer Red]

well i vote advancedshipping 4ever! and both Ash and May looks like teens for me and they do such a rwally nice couple

[misty_moon]

do you think may and ash are meant to be i do.

In MY opinion, no. But that's just me.

[AngelMina]

~ well misty was with ash for so long and if ash and misty really loved each other they would have been in true love, but misty left, so that right there tells that they arent meant to be, May is in pokemon now so i do see positive energy between ash and may,, but ash seems to only care for pokemon and not girlz for that matter,, he is like a boy who still is into boy-boy stuff and not into the mature hood yet. May already knows about love, but ash ??? i dont know, he should probably take some tips from brock XDXDXDXD at least brock tries...anywayz we'll see sooner or later...

[Sapphire Underpants]

Ash might be in love with Misty, but I think Misty has a crush on Brock....why else would she have been so concerned with him hitting on every Joy, Jenny, and other pretty girl on the show.


Huh?

[AngelMina]

Ash might be in love with Misty, but I think Misty has a crush on Brock....why else would she have been so concerned with him hitting on every Joy, Jenny, and other pretty girl on the show.


Huh?
YEA I AGREE misty alwayz yanks Brock by the ear or neck or shoulder whenever he is around , jenny, or joy or some pretty older girl!!!!! I think they kinda have a crush for each other and misty and brock are usually together alot.. seeing through the episodes

[Arigeitsu159]

Ash might be in love with Misty, but I think Misty has a crush on Brock....why else would she have been so concerned with him hitting on every Joy, Jenny, and other pretty girl on the show.


Huh?

I highly doubt that she had a crush on Brock. Having Brock hit on every pretty girl just aggravated her. Most of you are probably a little too young now, but you'll have friends who are going to aggravate you because they hit on every guy/girl within a certain amount radius. Heck... some of you might turn out to be those aggravating people... ;)

Besides, it seems that Max has taken over the duty of pulling Brock away from all the pretty girls, and I highly doubt he has the hots for Brock. :P

[marillmonster2000]

XD yeah. oh, and my opinion?

...satoshi and kasumichan were made for eachother. you dont see the kind of relationship in satoshi and haruka as you do with satoshi and kasumi. you can tell that they are into eachother. in my eyes, advancedshipping is out of the question. haruka is like 11 or 12, and satoshi is around 15 or 16. >_>;

[MewthreeXL]

No,Satoshi/Ash is 60 or 61.XD

He is 10,and so is May.Everyone else is ageless as far as the anime is concerned.

Proof:Ash-very first episode.May-very first advance generation episode.

[marillmonster2000]

yes, but its been quite a few years since satoshi left masara town XP and a few years since haruka left Mishiro town :P.

[Asura Nirosuki]

[QUOTE=AngelMina]~ well misty was with ash for so long and if ash and misty really loved each other they would have been in true love, but misty left, so that right there tells that they arent meant to be,


O.O. Have you forgotten the 7th movie?.Ash said to Max when best friends leave they stay in your Heart forever.*Relating to Misty*.
"A good friend left me..*gets sad* and i miss her every day..". They have totally not forgotten eachother^^.Nor they will.

[marillmonster2000]

erm, fyi that was the 6th movie ^_^;;

[MewthreeXL]

yes, but its been quite a few years since satoshi left masara town XP and a few years since haruka left Mishiro town :P.
It hasn't been that long in Hoenn.They got through Hoenn pretty quick.
It may have been 1 year and maybe about 3 or 4 months.

But you forget that Ash is immortal.He will forever remain 10.

I forgot to mention that Prof. Oak is 3 years old.XD

[marillmonster2000]

XP. people just dont remain the same age throughout their whole lives. in some cartoons yes, but in this show, they even make connections to how old they are and stuff *cant remember any, but knows they are there*

[MewthreeXL]

Like the narrarator mentioning that it had been almost a year when they were in Viridian City?Was this in the original?

[Asura Nirosuki]

O.O isn't like this?

Pokemon1. 2000, 3rd with Enti, 4th with celibe, 5th Return of Mewtwo, 6th Latias,Latios, 7th Wish maker *Ash&Misty memorie*.

[MewthreeXL]

Mewtwo Returns wasn't a main movie.It was shown as a special in Japan.Here's the movies: Pokemon:Mewtwo Strikes Back,Pokemon 2000:The Power of One,Pokemon 3:The Spell of the Unown,Pokemon 4ever,Pokemon Heroes,Pokemon 6:Jirachi Wishmaker,Pokemon 7: Destiny Deoxys.

The first 3 were the only ones that went to theatres.That I know of,anyway.

I don't know why that smiley was there.I fixed it.

[marillmonster2000]

no the movies are in this order:
1.mewtwo strikes back
2.revelation lugia(the power of one)
3.lord of the crystal tower(spell of the unnown)
4.serrebii, a timeless encounter(celebi, voice of the forest)
5.latios and latias, guardians of the waters capitol(heroes, latios and latias)
6.jirachi, and the seven nights of the wishing star(jirashi wishmaker)
7.deoxys, the sky rending visitor(destiny deoxys)

myutwo lives(mewtwo returns) is not a movie, its a tv special.

[MewthreeXL]

Um,that's how I listed it.Look again.

I thought the Celebi movie was named 4ever.Guess I was wrong. :P

[marillmonster2000]

Um,that's how I listed it.Look again.
i noticed. gimme a break, are posts are only one miute appart :P

[MewthreeXL]

Guess the Celebi movie wasn't named 4ever.:P

[marillmonster2000]

sorta, the dub title name is pokemon 4ever! but the actuall dubbed name of the movie is celebie voice of the forest.

[MewthreeXL]

I've seen every Pokemon movie except Heroes.What was it about?

[Asura Nirosuki]

*Poke**bump* you guys must stay on topic^^.

[MewthreeXL]

Okay,then.

I'm not really a shipper,but I think Misty goes with Ash,and May doesn't go with anybody for personal reasons.

The urge to get off topic is too strong.What was Heroes about?

[STJ]

lol.. I usually stay away from debates concerning Advanceshipping Vs Pokeshipping. I must say, though, as far as polls go, this has been the closest one I have seen so far...

I'll put a little bit of my input though. As I see it, It's your opinion of which couple you like better, as well as the hints which have been used to support either shipping..

That's all I'm going to say... for now...


(pssst.... to those who believed that Misty has a crush on Brock *points to sig*)

[MewthreeXL]

I said in another thread that it was only a matter of time before May would make a comeback.

On the Misty/Brock thing,that has to be the only reason that she has shown so much
interest and dislike in Brock's flirting habits.

[Arigeitsu159]

Okay,then.

I'm not really a shipper,but I think Misty goes with Ash,and May doesn't go with anybody for personal reasons.

The urge to get off topic is too strong.What was Heroes about?

Hey MewthreeXL,

Just FYI, the fourth movie was indeed called Pokemon 4Ever... with a subtitle "Celebi: Voice of the Forest".

For Pokemon Heroes, in a nutshell, it was about two Team Rocket females trying to steal a valuable water stone that was connected to Latios and Latias. Ash had to save the day again by stopping them from stealing it and causing a huge tidal wave from flooding the city.

And just so I don't get called out for going off topic... :cheeky: , the possibility of Misty liking Ash seems higher than May liking Ash, although in the first episode of Pokemon Advanced, I thought May may have thought Ash was kind of cute the way she looked at him when he was sleeping next to Pikachu. Plus, in various episodes throughout the past two seasons, May and Ash seem to knit pick and yell at each other a lot... not on the level that Ash & Misty fought, but I guess their fighting could be more a brother/sister type fighting, but there is always room for a possible relationship...

However, I'm not going to take on a particular shipping until a love-connection is made concrete in the show... which will probably never happen.

Look at you guys... making me stay up late... ;) Better go to bed... got class in the morn.

[Asura Nirosuki]

Meh come to think of it...No one can know about "Love".It's a Powerful!,Dangerous!,
*rambles* seriuosly.

[MewthreeXL]

Thank you.That will shut all those shippers up.

Ash and May do seem to have more of a brother/sister relationship,IMO.Or possibly
mentor/student.

[Arigeitsu159]

Thank you.That will shut all those shippers up.

Ash and May do seem to have more of a brother/sister relationship,IMO.Or possibly
mentor/student.

Not exactly. It's just mere speculations... just because I think they may have a brother/sister relationship doesn't make it so, also notice that I said there may be room for a relationship... that's why I choose not to take sides on shipping 'cause the relationships between Ash/Misty and Ash/May are so ambiguous.

[Eon-Rider]

do you think may and ash are meant to be i do because misty had her chance to get ashes heart but she choose to go with her sisters than may came and i really do think that there will be a love bond in may and ash :D :classic:
I think May is better for Brock than Ash.

[marillmonster2000]

i dont think kasumi and takeshi should be together. takeshi flirts with every single girl he meets (minus main characters and bad guys obaba,musashi, haruka ect.) exept for kasumi! if he likes her, why doesnt he ever flirt with her? O.o

[Entei Fan]

I always tought that Misty whould marry Ash but when shed gone , this rumor is a big "?". But i still think Misty should be his mate , when she returnes.

[Kiryuu]

O.O. Have you forgotten the 7th movie?.Ash said to Max when best friends leave they stay in your Heart forever.*Relating to Misty*.
"A good friend left me..*gets sad* and i miss her every day..". They have totally not forgotten eachother^^.Nor they will.
Did not happen in the Japanese version so it does not count

[marillmonster2000]

really? *hasnt seen the japanese version* if so, then 4kids has screwed up... yet again *rolls eyes*

[Arigeitsu159]

really? *hasnt seen the japanese version* if so, then 4kids has screwed up... yet again *rolls eyes*

They didn't screw up... just because it wasn't mentioned in the Japanese version doesn't mean squat. You can say all you want it doesn't, but the fact still remains that Ash said it and that will never change.

[Elite Trainer Raven]

The fact is Satoshi didn't make any reference at all to Kasumi in that movie. Nothing. Absolutely no trail that would lead to her. 4Kids, however, felt the need that Ash should make some kind of reference to her out of nowhere. The point is that the addition of that was unnecessary and goes completely against Satoshi's character to make him feel something for someone when the Japanese version made it obvious that he doesn't.

[Arigeitsu159]

The fact is Satoshi didn't make any reference at all to Kasumi in that movie. Nothing. Absolutely no trail that would lead to her. 4Kids, however, felt the need that Ash should make some kind of reference to her out of nowhere. The point is that the addition of that was unnecessary and goes completely against Satoshi's character to make him feel something for someone when the Japanese version made it obvious that he doesn't.

People keep saying that Satoshi and Ash are different, so just because Satoshi didn't say it doesn't imply anything on Ash. "A good friend left me and I miss her every day" is a reflection of Ash's character, not Satoshi. Besides, that quote can be read in many different ways. But since you guys say it doesn't matter, probably the best interpretation of it is to just take the quote at face value... that he misses her as a friend and nothing more.

For whatever reason 4Kids decided to put that snippet in there, the fact still remains Ash said it and won't ever change.

[Cresselia]

Sorry, I'm a Pokeshipper! I really don't think Ash considers May has his girlfriend. May just doesn't have the relationship with Ash like Misty does.

[Pokemon Trainer Red]

I think May is better for Brock than Ash.
Err... Takeshi well is like 7-8-9 years older than haruka and i don't think the same. and also i'm a huge advancedshipper and that's another reason but less important in this talk XD

[Jesse GS the II]

For whatever reason 4Kids decided to put that snippet in there, the fact still remains Ash said it and won't ever change.

Yeah, Ash said it, but Satoshi didn't. And in my eyes, the Japanese version has precedence over the American version.

I don't believe Ash and May are destined for each other. They're just travel buddies. Ash is the mentor and May is the protege. Of course, I don't believe Ash and Misty are destined for each other either - again, they were just travel buddies, only there Misty was more of a sidekick who didn't do much (especially in Season 3 and onward). Really, I don't believe in any form of shipping - I believe in what the writers say on the show, and my speculations for the futures of the characters are based on what they've established.

(I know I made Ash and Misty a couple in my "Pokémon: Intensity" fanfics on the Serebii Forums, but that was primarily a satirization of the entire notion of shipping, almost as if to say "Okay, they love each other - now what are you gonna do?")

[Arigeitsu159]

Yeah, Ash said it, but Satoshi didn't. And in my eyes, the Japanese version has precedence over the American version.

That reasoning is bull. The fact that Satoshi didn't say something does not discount the thoughts/feelings of Ash. Just because the American version doesn't follow the Japanese dialogue (Thank goodness too) exactly does not make better or worse than the Japanese version.

[Jesse GS the II]

That reasoning is bull. The fact that Satoshi didn't say something does not discount the thoughts/feelings of Ash. Just because the American version doesn't follow the Japanese dialogue (Thank goodness too) exactly does not make better or worse than the Japanese version.

Well, I think it does. 4Kids takes a lot of liberties with the dub version of "Pokémon". You know the Season 6 episode "Gotta Catch Ya Later"? That sweet little montage of Ash and Misty clips from previous episodes accompanied by that heart-wrenchingly romantic song? Totally different in Japan - the montage featured clips of ALL of Ash's previous travel companions (that means Brock and Tracey in addition to Misty), and there was no song that insinuated that Ash and Misty were secretly in love with each other. The Japanese version of the episode was focused on Ash parting ways with Misty and Brock; the American version was mostly a festival of PokéShipping that just so happened to feature Brock leaving too.

And that's just one example of the things 4Kids does to the show. They change music, they cut out cultural references, they change eyecatches, they compress the credits, and I'm not even gonna get started on what they did to the first, fourth, and fifth movies. PokéShipping and AdvanceShipping have little or no basis in the events of the Japanese version, which is the original version of the show and is therefore the version I take more seriously.

Bottom line is, I'm not saying that Ash might or might not have feelings for Misty - I'm just saying that 4Kids is controlling it, not the Japanese producers.

[Arigeitsu159]

Well, I think it does. 4Kids takes a lot of liberties with the dub version of "Pokémon". You know the Season 6 episode "Gotta Catch Ya Later"? That sweet little montage of Ash and Misty clips from previous episodes accompanied by that heart-wrenchingly romantic song? Totally different in Japan - the montage featured clips of ALL of Ash's previous travel companions (that means Brock and Tracey in addition to Misty), and there was no song that insinuated that Ash and Misty were secretly in love with each other. The Japanese version of the episode was focused on Ash parting ways with Misty and Brock; the American version was mostly a festival of PokéShipping that just so happened to feature Brock leaving too.

And that's just one example of the things 4Kids does to the show. They change music, they cut out cultural references, they change eyecatches, they compress the credits, and I'm not even gonna get started on what they did to the first, fourth, and fifth movies. PokéShipping and AdvanceShipping have little or no basis in the events of the Japanese version, which is the original version of the show and is therefore the version I take more seriously.

Bottom line is, I'm not saying that Ash might or might not have feelings for Misty - I'm just saying that 4Kids is controlling it, not the Japanese producers.


You make an excellent argument there. I'm not a big fan of shipping for any characters unless it's concretely and explicitly there because there's too much ambiguity between the relationships of the characters. But the fact still remains that Ash's feelings/thoughts aren't discounted because of Satoshi words/actions in the Japanese version.

As far as the editting goes done by 4Kids, our version is meant to be different than the original. They change the music and cultural references for an actual reason. Whether it makes the show better or worse is up for question, but the way people express their opinion about it, it is not absolute. As far as the movies go, if there was any bad editting in the first movie dub, it wasn't drastic enough to make the movie horrible. As far as movies go after Pokemon 4Ever, they have gotten progressively worse, but 4Kids can't be blamed entirely... yeah, maybe for bad dubbing as people like to say, but the storylines behind them are indeed Japanese original and as a fan since practically from the start, the storylines have gotten worse for each movie after 4 because of bad writing from the Japanese movie writers. I'm hoping with all my heart that this next one that seems to have a lot of potential is step up from the past three.

Keep in mind I don't hold the dub better than the Japanese or the Japanese better than the dub. Each brings it's own uniqueness to the table for the anime itself, but some of the unopened-minded posters here hail Japanese version as an absolute better than the dub and that's not true just because they say it is. Until someone can prove me to me they can do better, I will not take their complaints and whining seriously about the dub.

[Elite Trainer Raven]

They change the music and cultural references for an actual reason.
Lyrical songs, yes. But there's absolutely no excuse for changing background music that has no lyrics.

As far as the movies go, if there was any bad editting in the first movie dub, it wasn't drastic enough to make the movie horrible.
Let's see..unnecessary CGI additions, giving away the ending RIGHT IN THE BEGINING, changing Myuutsuu's reasonings for launching his counter attack (he originally questioned whether he was a creation of God or humans and what purpose he had for being brought to life, not the fact that he was being used as a Pokémon), destroying all the basic series music and adding in a HORRID soundtrack of pop music that completely does not fit in with the movie at all, adding the lamest puns (the whole Minnesota Vikings comment wasn't really necessary), big errors (c'mon, you've been doing the show for years now 4Kids and you can't tell the difference between a Strike and Fuudin? Seriously, there wasn't even a Fuudin captured and cloned for cryin' out loud) and so forth.

As far as movies go after Pokemon 4Ever, they have gotten progressively worse, but 4Kids can't be blamed entirely... yeah, maybe for bad dubbing as people like to say, but the storylines behind them are indeed Japanese original and as a fan since practically from the start, the storylines have gotten worse for each movie after 4 because of bad writing from the Japanese movie writers.
Yes, because I'm sure cutting out the very begining of the fifth movie, which sets up the background story for the entire movie was all Japan's idea when the movie was being dubbed. ;)

[Arigeitsu159]

Lyrical songs, yes. But there's absolutely no excuse for changing background music that has no lyrics.

Okay, but changing the music is not changing the show drastically to the point that it blows. The background music is fine... and is changed for an actual reason...

From an interview with a Alfred R. Kahn, CEO of 4Kids:
A lot of aspects in your adaptations are changed from the original Japanese version. Some things like dialog, credits and names are changed for obvious reasons, but things such as music are re-done. Why do you feel this is necessary?

Only to make it more Western. We westernize it so that children in English-speaking countries will understand it, and to us that is very critical. It's a mixture of the westernization, the trying to make the music appeal to kids who are in the United States.

Although you think it shouldn't be changed, the people who show, market, and promote the show think otherwise, and I think they better grasp on the business than we do.

Let's see..unnecessary CGI additions, giving away the ending RIGHT IN THE BEGINING, changing Myuutsuu's reasonings for launching his counter attack (he originally questioned whether he was a creation of God or humans and what purpose he had for being brought to life, not the fact that he was being used as a Pokémon), destroying all the basic series music and adding in a HORRID soundtrack of pop music that completely does not fit in with the movie at all, adding the lamest puns (the whole Minnesota Vikings comment wasn't really necessary), big errors (c'mon, you've been doing the show for years now 4Kids and you can't tell the difference between a Strike and Fuudin? Seriously, there wasn't even a Fuudin captured and cloned for cryin' out loud) and so forth.

As far as the movie goes... unnecessary CGI additions still didn't hurt the film... I see that only as a knit pick.
It's been a while since I've seen the first movie, so explain to me how they gave away the ending at the beginning 'cause I can't remember.
As far as Mewtwo's motives for his counter attack... yet again, our version was meant to be different. The target audience is different... do you actually think kids are going to be able to understand such complex issues as Creation by the hands of God or humans playing as Gods. The reworked reasoning behind it seemed to work pretty well, so I'm just going to see that as another knit pick over something blown way out of proportion.
As far as the horrid music goes... it wasn't as bad as you exaggerate. Yeah, there a bunch of loser pop artists on the album, but only two songs were actually played during the movie itself and and three at the end credits... so you're not convincing me much about the music on that. Additionally, since it was the first major motion picture here in the States, of course they're going to market the heck out of it by trying to put on big names on it to endorse it and make kids want to see it since those were the major artists of the time.
The puns... kid's show... kid's movie... of course the jokes may be ridiculous, but think about the target audience...
As far as the error goes on the captured "Fuudin", okay that was an error, but all movies have some error or another... LOTR with the car driving in the background... so even the greatest movies down to the sorriest ones have errors in it... so that argument doesn't suffice.

Yes, because I'm sure cutting out the very begining of the fifth movie, which sets up the background story for the entire movie was all Japan's idea when the movie was being dubbed. ;)

I had no idea that the first part of the movie was cut out since I've never watched, nor had the time to watch any of the Japanese movie counterparts. But aside from that, even if it was there, the movie itself was still kind of slow and kind of boring, along with Jirachi Wishmaker and Destiny Deoxys... Yeah, the dubbed version may have some inconsistenties and some things cut out, but that doesn't change the fact the movies are a little boring (at least compared to the first, second, and third movies)... which were originally written by Japanese writers.

But as I said before, people have their preferences, but that doesn't mean you can say one is absolutely better than the other. I may enjoy the dub more, but I will never say it's better than the Japanese version or vice versa because both are their own unique entity of the same concept. And until all they nay-sayers can manage to do something better, I will never take the complaints seriously, unless they actually have some merit to them.

[Jesse GS the II]

I'm now convinced of either two things:

1. Arigetisu159 has been brainwashed by 4Kids Entertainment.
2. Arigetisu159 is actually Al Kahn.


Okay, but changing the music is not changing the show drastically to the point that it blows. The background music is fine... and is changed for an actual reason...

From an interview with a Alfred R. Kahn, CEO of 4Kids:
A lot of aspects in your adaptations are changed from the original Japanese version. Some things like dialog, credits and names are changed for obvious reasons, but things such as music are re-done. Why do you feel this is necessary?

Only to make it more Western. We westernize it so that children in English-speaking countries will understand it, and to us that is very critical. It's a mixture of the westernization, the trying to make the music appeal to kids who are in the United States.

And you believe that? I have heard the Japanese background music - it's perfectly fine. A ten-year-old kid would have no problem with it.

Although you think it shouldn't be changed, the people who show, market, and promote the show think otherwise, and I think they better grasp on the business than we do.

Not everyone who works in big business know's what's best for the populace. Just look at the FOX network.


As far as the movie goes... unnecessary CGI additions still didn't hurt the film... I see that only as a knit pick.

The CGI didn't hurt the film, no, but it was an unnecessary waste of money.

It's been a while since I've seen the first movie, so explain to me how they gave away the ending at the beginning 'cause I can't remember.

That woman at the marina talking about how the tears of Pokémon can bring dead people back to life. In the Japanese version, she's just telling the trainers that the storm is the worst she's seen in years.

As far as Mewtwo's motives for his counter attack... yet again, our version was meant to be different. The target audience is different... do you actually think kids are going to be able to understand such complex issues as Creation by the hands of God or humans playing as Gods. The reworked reasoning behind it seemed to work pretty well, so I'm just going to see that as another knit pick over something blown way out of proportion.

Dear God, they've gotten to you too! Kids can understand creation - I don't know about you, but I learned my religion at a very young age.

As far as the horrid music goes... it wasn't as bad as you exaggerate. Yeah, there a bunch of loser pop artists on the album, but only two songs were actually played during the movie itself and and three at the end credits... so you're not convincing me much about the music on that. Additionally, since it was the first major motion picture here in the States, of course they're going to market the heck out of it by trying to put on big names on it to endorse it and make kids want to see it since those were the major artists of the time.

Major artists? Who the heck had ever heard of M2M before this movie? Or since, for that matter.

The puns... kid's show... kid's movie... of course the jokes may be ridiculous, but think about the target audience...

The target audience doesn't deserve to be talked down to. The Japanese film was aimed at kids too, and it didn't have a single bad pun in the script.

As far as the error goes on the captured "Fuudin", okay that was an error, but all movies have some error or another... LOTR with the car driving in the background... so even the greatest movies down to the sorriest ones have errors in it... so that argument doesn't suffice.

Still, you'd think the dubbing company would know better. They ARE translating the movie, it'd help to get the details right.

I had no idea that the first part of the movie was cut out since I've never watched, nor had the time to watch any of the Japanese movie counterparts. But aside from that, even if it was there, the movie itself was still kind of slow and kind of boring, along with Jirachi Wishmaker and Destiny Deoxys... Yeah, the dubbed version may have some inconsistenties and some things cut out, but that doesn't change the fact the movies are a little boring (at least compared to the first, second, and third movies)... which were originally written by Japanese writers.

It doesn't matter if you thought it was boring, the point is that the legend at the beginning of "Heroes: Latios and Latias" was VITAL TO THE PLOT. By cutting it out, 4Kids had to create an entirely different backstory for the whole movie - some crap about an Aerodactyl and a Kabutops.

But as I said before, people have their preferences, but that doesn't mean you can say one is absolutely better than the other. I may enjoy the dub more, but I will never say it's better than the Japanese version or vice versa because both are their own unique entity of the same concept. And until all they nay-sayers can manage to do something better, I will never take the complaints seriously, unless they actually have some merit to them.

How many Japanese episodes have you seen? Can you honestly compare them side-by-side to the dubs? Because if you haven't, I wouldn't judge the "nay-sayers" so quickly. Because I HAVE seen the Japanese versions of several episodes, and I can securely speak for the majority of educated "Pokémon" fans when I say that it's head and shoulders above the dub. Better acting, better music, better editing...and there's no concern that some outside company is mucking around with the storyline because they don't think little kids are smart enough to get it.

[MewthreeXL]

4kids isn't that bad.Imagine not having 4kids,then we wouldn't be able to understand it at all.

[Arigeitsu159]

I'm now convinced of either two things:

1. Arigetisu159 has been brainwashed by 4Kids Entertainment.
2. Arigetisu159 is actually Al Kahn.

You know, I was actually starting to gain a little respect for you because you made an excellent post a while ago, but now I see you as an idiot. I guess age doesn't always coincide with maturity.

[Jesse GS the II]

You know, I was actually starting to gain a little respect for you because you made an excellent post a while ago, but now I see you as an idiot. I guess age doesn't always coincide with maturity.

That was called "humor". It's apparently more well-received on the No Homers Club.

[Elite Trainer Raven]

Only to make it more Western. We westernize it so that children in English-speaking countries will understand it, and to us that is very critical. It's a mixture of the westernization, the trying to make the music appeal to kids who are in the United States.
Please do explain how in the world background music being changed affects ANYTHING in terms of understanding? Does silence really confuse children? Do sad moments really frighten them? Are kids so pumped on ADD that they need music that's synthesized rather than actually produced with real instruments to be able to keep up with the show? That's a really crappy *** excuse, I'm sorry. You take a scene filled with pumped up, lyricless music such as OK! playing during Juputoru's battle with Kekking and replace it with standard dub music, you basically ruin an entire mood of there being excitement and a change in tables.

[Arigeitsu159]

Elite Trainer Raven & Jesse GS the II,

Well, I concede. Obviously I don't know enough about the show to come up with any valid points anymore, especially after the last two posts from you two.. The dub sucks, plain and simple. Heck, no use in going on when you know when you're outmatched. You guys win. And just to show you I can honorably concede to you two, I will remove my sig below because I obviously can't defend the sucky dubs anymore. My hat goes off to you two. Heck, you guys should go into law or something.

My appologies to you for getting personal, Jess.

[Crystal Clair]

synthesized rather than actually produced with real instruments
I actually think that's cool of 4kids and are you positive that Japanese doesn't use the synthesized stuff because I remember it appearing in the Japanese versions as well.
The dub sucks, plain and simple.
The dub does not completely suck. I for one love it. You have to appreciate things you have and not envy what other people have. What if Pokemon wasn't dubbed at all?

[MewthreeXL]

That's exactly what I was saying.People wouldn't be able to understand it at all.

[Elite Trainer Raven]

I actually think that's cool of 4kids and are you positive that Japanese doesn't use the synthesized stuff because I remember it appearing in the Japanese versions as well.
You can count SEVERAL different instruments used in both openings/endings and background music for the Japanese version (and it's been shown as that for behind the scenes trailers of the movies). The dub, however, mainly relies on a guy who assumes he knows what kids wanna hear and a keyboard.

[Arigeitsu159]

These are my final thoughts on the issue and after this, I'm not going to say anything more about it.

It's already been established full and well that the dub sucks. I get that. But however, what I consistently hear time and time again is nothing, but complaining and little knit picks that as to why it doesn't image the Japanese version, etc.

Honestly, if the show sucks that bad, why don't people around here do something about it? People who work in business don't know what's good for the populace and apparently you do, so why don't you start doing something about it instead of constantly sitting here complaining about how aspects of the show are being done, how the concept is being marketed, or what-have-you. The only thing I see is "talk" and no "action". Apparently there are a lot of people who think the dub is utterly horrible, and perhaps it is. Personally, I think it's fine and I don't pay attention to some of the minor details people blow up out of proportion.

All I have to say is that if you're going to complain, do something to make it change. When fans found out that 'Angel' on the WB was getting getting cut from the air, they didn't just sit there and complain about it. People started to take action with petitions, writing letters, and stuff. They lost the battle though, but at least they tried to do something to make a difference. Yeah, the situation isn't similar here, but the point of action is.

I'm saying this with the utmost respect to everyone: If you complain and think you can do something to improve it, then do it, otherwise, quit whining about it because constantly knocking something that doesn't fit up to your expectations isn't do anything. If you're not part of the solution, you're a part of the problem.

[Jesse GS the II]

4Kids, as suggested by their name, isn't going to listen to the complaints of eighteen year old fans because that's not their target audience. Unfortunately, the 9-12 year olds that they aim the dub towards don't know they're missing anything and have no reason to complain. So if Elite Trainer Raven or Dogasu or myself sent them letters or e-mails grousing about the fact that they change the music and whatnot, 4Kids' likely response would be along the lines of "What do you care? We're not dubbing this show for you."

Besides, the dub doesn't completely suck - there are good aspects of it. But most of us take the good with the bad and learn to live with it. Basically, it's not hugely important to me that 4Kids release uncut and unaltered versions of every episode of "Pokémon". All I've done is point out some things they could have done better that wouldn't have had a negative affect on their intended audience.

I close with a quote from "The Simpsons" that I often bring up after a lengthy criticism of 4Kids' treatment of "Pokémon"...

MARGE: You know, Homer, it's very easy to criticize.
HOMER: Fun, too!

[Crystal Clair]

You can count SEVERAL different instruments used in both openings/endings and background music for the Japanese version (and it's been shown as that for behind the scenes trailers of the movies). The dub, however, mainly relies on a guy who assumes he knows what kids wanna hear and a keyboard.
I dont know about that. I try to study Japanese episodes and I remember some techno music from one of the episodes pretty clearly.
Honestly, if the show sucks that bad, why don't people around here do something about it?
Because just maybe there aren't as many complainers as you think there are. 4kids is not that bad.
And I'm fifteen fyi and my cousin who's also a fan of Pokemon is like ten and ten's in the main audience so dont say everyone's eighteen.
Sorry if I misunderstood

[P-Reaper]

Hahaha! Sounds a lot like the Simpsons. Bart and Lisa have been in the same grade for like... an X amount of years. XD
So have I. :(
jk How old is ash supposed to be now
and i don't think ash likes may like he does misty

[Mandy-Chan]

Hmm... we've gotten a little off topic, nice debate though... Both versions are fine, if the dubbed version is really all that bad why was there that giant craze a while back of people that loved pokemon^^ Give the dubbed version a break guys it's not that bad I really enjoy it, I havn't noticed any bad background music but that's just my opinion. I have noticed a few bad jokes like when Ash and pikachu thought they could fly in 'true blue swablu' but I know some people who enjoyed that joke while I thought it was kinda stupid. You have to remember that everyone have different tastes so of course some people are gonna like the background music of the dubbed and for some it will drive them crazy. Don't be too opinonated, everyone should be allowed to have their own views without other people just plain out saying that the other persons views are horrible and incorrect.
Back on topic, I myself am a pokeshipper^^ I like the little hints that are given(weather they be dubbed or not) -Open your mind to the possibilitys- It's possible that 4kids could change the ending to fit the changes they've made to the series, it's completly logical. I believe that May is better suited for Drew they have the same interest and they have hints in both versions of this couple^^
*~Mandy~*

[Bobby]

If misty ever comes back fully then she would blow May out of the water.They have been together longer then Ash and May.When will Brock get a girl XD.

[STJ]

Wow.. what a difference a few days make.. I guess the poll isin't as close as it was before..

C'mon Advanceshippers! There has to be more of you guys out there right? lol

[Miss Reyna]

Ok I am not for Misty and Ash love. One reason is because the age difference. May is about 10 to 12 I guess. One reason I believe is because she look like she has already began pubertiy. Ash is ageless but I guess the guy is about 16 or 15. Also he kind showed his love for Misty and Misty has done the same.

I don't suppoet eirth shipping but I do realize that their a higher chance of Misty and Ash hook up then with May.

THe thing Ash is a bit dense when it comes to love. May is young but she knows child love (You know the love you had when you were a kid and those crushs you had). Misty is a bit more knowing about love then May but that doesn't make her any different except Misty have been with Ash a WHOLE lot longer then May. Thus knowing Ash a bit better. But Ash is not focus on love. He is in head deap into pokemon. Each show he is talking about becomeing a pokemon master. His love and hreat is to pokemon. If a girl loves Ash, he wouldn't know until a long while. Ash now knows that Misty loves him but he just keeps it low and made no difference except when somebody ask about his personal life (which isn't alot).

[Elite Trainer Raven]

Ash now knows that Misty loves him but he just keeps it low and made no difference except when somebody ask about his personal life (which isn't alot).
Please explain where it is that she's admitted love for him, him acknowledging it, and him even bringing it up at all. If you're gonna refer to the Jirachi movie line, please keep in mind that line was not even in the original at all. :|

[Crystal Clair]

Please explain where it is that she's admitted love for him, him acknowledging it, and him even bringing it up at all.
You dont have to admit love for someone to realize you love them. It's just something you know and feel. I cant explain it well.

[shadoweyes11]

look this are pictures of my thread of may and ash look carefully
click to see larger please!!

[Mandy-Chan]

Please don't try to shove it in our faces like that it will just get people angry and we don't want that or this will become a major flame war... there is plenty of fanart of ash and Misty too but that's just people showing that they like this couple by drawing them or editing screen shots^^

[Jesse GS the II]

look this are pictures of my thread of may and ash look carefully
click to see larger please!!

Not a single one of those is an actual anime image - they're all fanworks. It proves nothing.

[cold_katanagirl]

C'mon Advanceshippers! There has to be more of you guys out there right? lol
*shrugs* I'm not really into defending Advanceshipping. I'm more into arguing against Pokeshipping... ^^

Geez, a lot has happened while my computer's been busted.

... BUT I GOT A CELL PHONE. COOL. ^^

[STJ]

*shrugs* I'm not really into defending Advanceshipping. I'm more into arguing against Pokeshipping... ^^

Geez, a lot has happened while my computer's been busted.

... BUT I GOT A CELL PHONE. COOL. ^^


Is it me? Or is it alot more fun (or alot more easier) shooting down and destroying hints then thinking them up?

I hope I havn't gotten off -topic, but I really don't have that much else to say about either Pokeshipping or Advanceshipping

[Ridley-X4]

look this are pictures of my thread of may and ash look carefully
click to see larger please!!

Those are fanarts.

And don't you think you're going to be going around trying to get every single member to think May and Ash go together. There are people out there that have their own opinions. And I don't care if Ash likes May and vise versa. I don't support any stupid shippings. They are based on people's opinions and the writers have NOTHING to do with it. So go ahead, with trying to get everthing your way. And if you do, I'll eat my own hat!

[AngelMina]

look this are pictures of my thread of may and ash look carefully
click to see larger please!!


~ well those pics arent all real. but i think they are cute, umm i am not trying to say that ash&may belong together but i just like those pics~ BUT putting these pics will not persuade everyone into liking ash&may couple thingy!~

~Mina~

[Mooshykris]

Personnally, I think niether, I think Latias is the best for Ash. But, if you have to chose between May and Mitsy, I chose Misty: I think Misty, because she has had hints since the beggining of the show. (I won't name any though)

[SBaby]

Geez, she gets sentimental EVERY TIME Ash is in any danger. Anyone who's seen the first season can already name several instances.

Of course, my prediction is that Misty and May will eventually be in the show (for at least one season) together, and will constantly fight over Ash. I think that would be a riot. And it's possible since many female characters seem to be lately falling for Ash.

[Carina]

It's a fact that Misty likes Ash. He's just too dumb to realize it. :D
Personally, I think it's more likely for Ash to like Misty than to like May.
He's too committed with Pokemon for all that at the moment.
But if you could ask Ash who's more important to him, Misty or May, I'm sure he'd say Misty. She was with him since the beginning. They've gone through everything together. She taught him heaps...and there was chemistry there. :nervous:
May and Ash...they seem more like friends/siblings. But that's only my opinion. :classic:

[Pincushion]

Hey whys Toto not on the poll, hahaha, Im sorry, but I dont think either of them are for Ash, there all to young for love anyway.

[Kiryuu]

Hey whys Toto not on the poll, hahaha, Im sorry, but I dont think either of them are for Ash, there all to young for love anyway.
XD! Now why would I be there ^^

[Mavvii]

I think May is 10/11 and ash would be like...14 now! I still think him and Misty should be a pair!

[B-Baller]

I do not. Ash is way too busy with his dream to be a Pokemon Master to worry about girls. And I think shipping is competely useless.

[obelisk-kun]

ash can't date may he might as well be committing suicide misty was there from the beggening may hasn't even been with him for an entire reason(I hate may anyway she is evil)

[cold_katanagirl]

You just destroyed the english language. Congrats.

So far in America, May's been in for a season and... a half. Ish. She's going to be there for three seasons.

PWN.

[Jesse GS the II]

Didn't I have a post on this page a few hours ago?...Oh well.

And I really don't understand your reasoning, obelisk-kun (let alone much else in your post). Just what makes Haruka evil?

[Elite Trainer Raven]

Worst reasoning ever: "Misty was there since the begining!" So what? So that means every person that's of the opposite gender that you've known and hung around with for a long time is basically quallified to make a better match for you? Terrible logic. Seriously, does anyone understand the concepts of love? :|

[Light_Azumarill]

>.> Isn't this thread really old?? Oh well.

Um... personally I like Ash better with Misty. Just my opinion. Ash and May's personalities are very similar, and I think that it wouldn't be as exciting falling in love with someone who's just like you. O.o Not that it couldn't happen; I just think it would be more interesting if he was with someone that was a little different.

I don't think that Ash and May is a totally impossibility, and I think they could end up together; but I just happen to like Ash/Misty more. ^-^ Don't get me wrong, I'm okay with Advanceshipping and all, and I am a May fan. Maybe that's why Ash hasn't picked anyone yet; he's having as hard a decision as everyone on this board!

[Natsuki]

I said Misty when the series first came out, and I shall say it again. XD I have always thought of Ash and Misty to be a perfect pair. ^______^ I'm in no way bashing anyone who thinks May and Ash would be perfect together, I just feel that Ash and Misty have a stronger bond together. Due to the time laps' in the anime, we don't know exactly how long the character, May and Misty, were together with Ash, but...well, I just feel she is right for him. XD *ish lazy and doesn't feel like explaining* XP

~Kelsey

[Kaiyori]

I'd say may after watching a few episodes with those two fighting that makes me think what i think

[Rageman]

I'll settle this once and for all. They are friends. Friends look out for eachother. Theres
no "Love triangle" in between the three. Ash is 16, May's 10, and Misty Is 16. In the anime though, Ash is 10, Misty's 10 and May's 10. That settles it. This is spammy now
anyways.

[ArKiVe]

Uh, in the 2nd movie there was this thing between some girl and Misty. Just watch it when they get to thaty Island with all the people having costumes and masks on and stuff. The girl kisses Ash and Misty I think get's jealous and then the girl asks if she's his girlfriend etc. But anyways lol, I think May and Ash would make a really nice couple. I mean, I wish I was Ash sometimes :P

[kaihachi_mishima]

OMFG ^ UR WEIRD lol...just to remind all of you people its a SHOW...A CARTOON SHOW lol...just had to get that off my chest. Seriously this is what I dont get why do you guys care about a relationship between two cartoon characters lol. Worry about your own life :P...


Anyways jsut to get back to the topic in my opinion Misty and Ash looks better...and it shows that Misty has a thing for Ash from the movies to the arguing its pretty obvious. May doesn't really like Ash as a "boyfriend" type of way she sees him more as a friend.

[CheapYugiohDeckMastr]

The whole cartoon relationship is because we like to see happy endings. I agree with you 100% about Ash and Misty being together.

[Elite Trainer Raven]

And now I can finally put my mod powers to use. Since we already have a Shipping Debate Thread and it's clearly stickied, this thread gets the axe.