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View Full Version : Terrorist group wins Palestinian legislative elections


Otter Mii-kun
January 26th, 2006, 3:37 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650788.stm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182842,00.html

I knew this would happen one way or another. The next step to removing Israel from the face of the Earth - step complete.

-ottermi619-
First it was the Gaza pullout, now this.

Drifblim
January 27th, 2006, 7:47 AM
They only won because of successfully feigning humanitarianism in that land. Whereas they've provided free schooling and health care in Palestine, they're over on the other side of the fence blowing themselves away.

Of course, being an American, that's my view....

Geometric-sama
January 27th, 2006, 7:49 AM
Hamas has supported terrorism, and while I wouldn't go all-out to call them a "terrorist group" (I think this is a mindset propelled by the US government) I am worried about what this is going to do for peace in the Middle East. I don't have personal interest in that, but it is the principle of the thing.

Ryoutarou
January 27th, 2006, 9:17 AM
I don't think it's as much as a problem as the media makes it out to be, but it still is something that should be kept an eye. The fact that they've claimed responsibility for so many attacks is what worries me.

Dragonite Tamer
January 27th, 2006, 9:58 AM
It is worrying that Palestine is to be ruled by a group like that. This is bad news for people hoping for peace in the Middle East.

Otter Mii-kun
January 27th, 2006, 10:22 AM
In their view, the only way to peace is to dissolve Israel altogether, just as I've said over and over.

Chairman Kaga
January 27th, 2006, 12:46 PM
Actually, it's quite the problem; Hamas ran first and foremost during the elections on the platform of promising the complete destruction of Israel. And we all thought Mahmoud Abbas was a bad politician for not being able to keep his own territory together and being a general lame duck, he seems like Abraham Lincoln now compared to the new people. I'm genuinely worried.

Otter Mii-kun
January 27th, 2006, 6:43 PM
I think this is a mindset propelled by the US governmentIt's the stupid mentality that we should be continuing to meddle in foreign affairs, which we shouldn't be doing anyway.

Actually, it's quite the problem; Hamas ran first and foremost during the elections on the platform of promising the complete destruction of Israel. And we all thought Mahmoud Abbas was a bad politician for not being able to keep his own territory together and being a general lame duck, he seems like Abraham Lincoln now compared to the new people. I'm genuinely worried.
Abbas is no more "peace-advocating" than his predecessor Yasser Arafat

I don't think it's as much as a problem as the media makes it out to be, but it still is something that should be kept an eye. The fact that they've claimed responsibility for so many attacks is what worries me
Once the roadmap to peace (destruction of Israel) is complete, there's no telling what will happen other than greatly increased risk of global terrorism. The worse news is is that George WMD Bush is going along with it, and is fully endorsed by the UN and other globalist organizations. Heck, the UN doesn't even have Israel on their maps!

They only won because of successfully feigning humanitarianism in that land. Whereas they've provided free schooling and health care in Palestine, they're over on the other side of the fence blowing themselves away.
They're going to continue suicide bombings as long as they exist. Even with continually pouring billions of dollars of "aid" into "Palestine", the Palestinian people are still dirt poor. Where did the aid go to, you ask? To the terrorist dictators and their relatives and colleagues, especially Arafat, whose wife is thriving with wealth in France.

-ottermi619-
BTW, Arafat deserved that Nobel Peace Prize my rear.

Arcanine
January 28th, 2006, 6:18 PM
I find this funny, you want to know why? Well because everyone yapping "Oh, Palestine isn't terrorists, they have no ties to terrorists, they are a peaceful nation". Almost every country has said Hamas is a terrorist group. And since Palestine has voted them in (by a landslide I might add) Palestine is just a bunch of terrorists. It's as simple as that, and now everyone can see that Palestine is a terrorist nation.

Drifblim
January 28th, 2006, 7:33 PM
A nation that probably never will be recognised by the West, at that.

Otter Mii-kun
January 29th, 2006, 7:07 AM
A nation that probably never will be recognised by the West, at that.
That's because in reality, there's no such country as "Palestine". It's just that the PLO, Hamas, the UN, and now Iran's Presdient want to wipe Israel off the map altogether and make it look as if it never existed.

Geometric-sama
January 29th, 2006, 7:13 AM
I find this funny, you want to know why? Well because everyone yapping "Oh, Palestine isn't terrorists, they have no ties to terrorists, they are a peaceful nation". Almost every country has said Hamas is a terrorist group. And since Palestine has voted them in (by a landslide I might add) Palestine is just a bunch of terrorists. It's as simple as that, and now everyone can see that Palestine is a terrorist nation.
It's not that simple. You're generalising and lumping all people under one banner, and the fact that not everyone voted for Hamas indicates that they are, in fact, not all terrorists. Many of those who did vote for Hamas may agree with their political position, and be conservatives, without necessarily being terrorists.

Chairman Kaga
January 29th, 2006, 9:31 AM
Abbas is no more "peace-advocating" than his predecessor Yasser Arafat

I know this, it was just to say that as horrible as Abbas was, Hamas is unimaginably worse. I saw the co-founder of Hamas on CNN this morning and he reaffirmed that his primary goal is to destroy Israel and replace it all with a single Palestinian state. Even the CNN anchors, who tend to be neutral to lightly sympathetic to Palestine, were visibly disturbed.

Otter Mii-kun
January 29th, 2006, 4:43 PM
Even the CNN anchors, who tend to be neutral to lightly sympathetic to Palestine, were visibly disturbed.
So much for the media being "liberal" http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/neolibert/eyes.gif

Ryoutarou
January 29th, 2006, 4:57 PM
So much for the media being "liberal" http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/neolibert/eyes.gif
What? This one of the very few times a CNN reporter, aside from that hack, Dobbs, has shown emotion.

Arcanine
January 29th, 2006, 9:37 PM
It's not that simple. You're generalising and lumping all people under one banner, and the fact that not everyone voted for Hamas indicates that they are, in fact, not all terrorists. Many of those who did vote for Hamas may agree with their political position, and be conservatives, without necessarily being terrorists.
They all knew what they were voting for. They knew they were voting for a group that wants to wipe Israel off the map (they don't want peace), and a group that blows up innocent people, and all sorts of things.
If they didn't win by such a large number I'd still think there might be a small chance for all the peace talks. But Hamas took the vote by a landslide, so that tells me that most if not all are more or less terrorists.

Ryoutarou
January 29th, 2006, 10:07 PM
They want peace...they just think the best way to do it is through getting rid of Israel. They believe everything they're doing is just and not wrong. But after a bunch of countries start threatening to cut funding and aid to the country, it might help them get on the right track. I don't think all of the people are like that though, there's still a good amount of people that didn't vote for them. It's also causing a lot of backlash with the group that lost, the leader's been getting a lot of trouble from his ex-supporters.

Jack O'Neill
January 29th, 2006, 10:35 PM
Hamas wiping Israel off the map is definitely not the way to peace. If anything, it will generate even more discord in the Middle East. To me, the only "roadmap to peace" involves the Israeli Defense Forces wiping Hamas off the map. Second Six Day War, anyone?

I find it ironic that the United Nations has now disowned Israel, considering the fact that the nation of Israel was created by a UN resolution in 1948. But then again, my history's a bit rusty.

Otter Mii-kun
January 30th, 2006, 5:15 AM
I find it ironic that the United Nations has now disowned Israel, considering the fact that the nation of Israel was created by a UN resolution in 1948. But then again, my history's a bit rusty.
The UN are run by extremist anti-American, and in general, anti-democracy one-worlders backed by extremist Islam and its dictatorships in the Middle East. In fact, the UN has always been controlled by socialist one-world leaders.

-ottermi619-
Here's a real doozy = http://www.propagandamatrix.com/archiveun.html

Geometric-sama
January 30th, 2006, 6:54 AM
This is how democracy works. People complain if there's no democracy, and now they complain because of it.

Arcanine
January 30th, 2006, 12:28 PM
I'm happy that Palestine is democracy. That's one step for the better for them. But having a democracy isn't everything. Adolf Hitler was voted in by the people of Germany (a democracy). And I'd like to see how many people here will say that he was right with the things he did in his life time.
Someone once said "A democracy without morals or ethics soon turns into a tyranny", Germany was a democracy. But it didn't have morals nor ethics when they voted in Hitler. And look where that got everyone. I'm just wondering if the Palestinian people made that same mistake the German people made years ago.

Chairman Kaga
January 30th, 2006, 2:53 PM
So much for the media being "liberal"

I didn't recognize the reporter; he must have been relatively new and softer than the average CNN anchor. Definitely out of CNN's mainstream, though; someone like, say, Christiane Amanpour could still likely watch a group of Israelis shot and mangled before her eyes and complain that the news truck was stocked with Poland Spring instead of Dasani five minutes later.

They want peace...they just think the best way to do it is through getting rid of Israel. They believe everything they're doing is just and not wrong. But after a bunch of countries start threatening to cut funding and aid to the country, it might help them get on the right track. I don't think all of the people are like that though, there's still a good amount of people that didn't vote for them. It's also causing a lot of backlash with the group that lost, the leader's been getting a lot of trouble from his ex-supporters.

Too bad the funding of actual nations they'll lose is meager in comparison to the underground funds from Saudi billionaires they're likely going to receive. Sanctions have never influenced dictators and insane governments; it won't this time, either.

Hamas wiping Israel off the map is definitely not the way to peace. If anything, it will generate even more discord in the Middle East. To me, the only "roadmap to peace" involves the Israeli Defense Forces wiping Hamas off the map. Second Six Day War, anyone?

I find it ironic that the United Nations has now disowned Israel, considering the fact that the nation of Israel was created by a UN resolution in 1948. But then again, my history's a bit rusty.

The west shared the Jews' desire for Zionism only out of the UN's momentary sympathy for the Holocaust they had suffered earlier that decade. Take that out of the equation, and the blatant anti-semitism of otherwise-respectable societies would have been apparent as ever and there would have been no Israel. There was no actual concern for Jews involved in the decision; it was likely the UN's first large PR stunt.

Otter Mii-kun
January 30th, 2006, 3:05 PM
The west shared the Jews' desire for Zionism only out of the UN's momentary sympathy for the Holocaust they had suffered earlier that decade. Take that out of the equation, and the blatant anti-semitism of otherwise-respectable societies would have been apparent as ever and there would have been no Israel. There was no actual concern for Jews involved in the decision; it was likely the UN's first large PR stunt.

http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=60624

Most (or all) of yous might also want to see this other thread regarding the UN. It covers their latest attempt to take over the world.

Geometric-sama
January 31st, 2006, 8:22 AM
I'm happy that Palestine is democracy. That's one step for the better for them. But having a democracy isn't everything. Adolf Hitler was voted in by the people of Germany (a democracy). And I'd like to see how many people here will say that he was right with the things he did in his life time.
Someone once said "A democracy without morals or ethics soon turns into a tyranny", Germany was a democracy. But it didn't have morals nor ethics when they voted in Hitler. And look where that got everyone. I'm just wondering if the Palestinian people made that same mistake the German people made years ago.
Contrary to popular belief, Hitler was not democratically voted in - he was appointed. There was a piece on this in yesterday's newspaper, I'll find it and scan it for you tomorrow :)

EDIT: From http://www.theage.com.au/news/letters/how-will-we-cope-with-the-games/2006/01/30/1138590439175.html?page=fullpage

The lessons of ignoring democracy

Leo Cooper (Letters, 30/1) warned of some alleged perils of democracy as "the Nazi Party in Germany came to power through democratic elections".

This was not so: the best the Nazis did in a democratic election was 37 per cent in July 1932, and their vote fell to 33 per cent in November 1932. The German conservatives appointed Hitler chancellor in January 1933 because they feared the parties gaining the most democratic support — the communists especially — more than they feared the Nazis; see Paxton, The Anatomy of Fascism (2004), pp 93-6).

The current attitudes of some Western governments towards the electoral success of Hamas strikes some similarities with the Algerian elections in 1991-92. When an Islamic Party (FIS) was about to win, the French and US Governments gave at least tacit support to the Algerian military to suspend the elections and ban the FIS. That hardly seems a sensible policy now, after a civil war and some 100,000 deaths.

Democratic elections can produce difficult outcomes. Ignoring the results of democratic elections doesn't have a great track record.
Tony Ward, Elwood

Eliana
January 31st, 2006, 12:05 PM
As the only Israeli/Jew in this forum, I speak now.


The terrorist group is called חמס, otherwise known as Hamas in English. Their basic one intention is to kill all the Jews in Israel and claim Israel as their own, because that is what the Arabs plan to do.

This is also a major issue because Sharon is no longer prime minister, no thanks to the wonderful stroke he got, leaving him in a comatic state. We need him more than ever now, and we can't have him.

I'm not sure what Israel is going to do. My mom is convinced they're going to just kill all the Arabs, and they have every right now, but we'll see.

Geometric-sama
February 1st, 2006, 8:41 AM
My mom is convinced they're going to just kill all the Arabs, and they have every right now, but we'll see.
No one, absolutely no one, has the "right" to kill any other person. No matter what they've done, no matter what people may think they deserve, you shouldn't devalue human life like that.

Eliana
February 5th, 2006, 1:03 PM
No one, absolutely no one, has the "right" to kill any other person. No matter what they've done, no matter what people may think they deserve, you shouldn't devalue human life like that.
Mmm. Really, now?

Tell that to the Nazis, in that case. Maybe then I'll change my mind. After what they did, every single one of them should have died. I'm not trying to seem like an apathetic monster, but that's just what they were. After killing 6 million innocent people, "devaluing" human life isn't even in the discussion anymore.

Sawyer
February 5th, 2006, 1:30 PM
"shouldn't devailue human life"... "shouldn't"? Well, it currently looks as though quite a few people are.

Otter Mii-kun
February 5th, 2006, 2:10 PM
Mmm. Really, now?

Tell that to the Nazis, in that case. Maybe then I'll change my mind. After what they did, every single one of them should have died. I'm not trying to seem like an apathetic monster, but that's just what they were. After killing 6 million innocent people, "devaluing" human life isn't even in the discussion anymore.
How about tell the same thing to the PA, Hamas, and the UN?

Eliana
February 5th, 2006, 2:13 PM
How about tell the same thing to the PA, Hamas, and the UN?
o.o I was actually just implying that, thanks.

I have friends in Israel who have gotten blown up by Hamas. I take it personally. Also, may I add, I was in a Hamas terrorist attack, so if you're telling me I'm not allowed to want revenge, then yeah.

Lucifer
February 5th, 2006, 2:31 PM
Violence only breeds more violence.

Or so I've heard.

Sawyer
February 5th, 2006, 2:34 PM
Well, isn't that quite a revelation.

Lucifer
February 5th, 2006, 2:37 PM
Evidently yes, in Eliana's case.

Otter Mii-kun
February 5th, 2006, 2:41 PM
o.o I was actually just implying that, thanks.

I have friends in Israel who have gotten blown up by Hamas. I take it personally. Also, may I add, I was in a Hamas terrorist attack, so if you're telling me I'm not allowed to want revenge, then yeah.
I'm not telling you you shouldn't have revenge. By all means, do so, if it's for the good of your own life.

Jack O'Neill
February 5th, 2006, 2:47 PM
Just let the IDF take care of Hamas. Suicide bombs and AK-74s are no match for Tavor TAR-21s, Merkava MBTs, and precision-guided munitions from F-16 Falcons.

Overlord IX
February 5th, 2006, 7:05 PM
Just let the IDF take care of Hamas. Suicide bombs and AK-74s are no match for Tavor TAR-21s, Merkava MBTs, and precision-guided munitions from F-16 Falcons.

Dont get your hopes high. High tech doesnt always win wars ya know. In the end it purly wit and stratedgy that prevails. AK-47's anyone?

Eliana
February 6th, 2006, 6:33 AM
Dont get your hopes high. High tech doesnt always win wars ya know. In the end it purly wit and stratedgy that prevails. AK-47's anyone?
Erm.


Newsflash, dear.


In case you haven't read the books, the IDF is the most powerful army this world has ever seen, regardless of its size.

Look at the wars back in the 60's to the 80's or so in Israel. At one time, Egypt, Syria, and every Arab surrounding country was attacking Israel. Israel STILL beat them all.

Overlord IX
February 6th, 2006, 6:48 PM
Erm.


Newsflash, dear.


In case you haven't read the books, the IDF is the most powerful army this world has ever seen, regardless of its size.

Look at the wars back in the 60's to the 80's or so in Israel. At one time, Egypt, Syria, and every Arab surrounding country was attacking Israel. Israel STILL beat them all.

But under the lead of an unskilled general,you can have abram tanks for all i care. A few suicide bombers and a lil' sneak around,and they'll reduce em' to scrap metal.

Hitokiri
February 7th, 2006, 6:06 AM
I'm almost positive that Israel won't be overtaken ^.^ People have been trying to take over and destroy israel for milleniums and they've never succeeded. I believe the bible and where it says that God will never allow Israel to be overtaken.

But that's just my opinion o.o;;

Geometric-sama
February 7th, 2006, 7:55 AM
I don't feel revenge is going to get you anywhere in this case, because it'll just incite more violence. I accept there's basically no prospect of peace, but I don't support violence as an answer to violence, except when a kid tries to bash me up in the playground.

Eliana
February 8th, 2006, 8:36 PM
I don't feel revenge is going to get you anywhere in this case, because it'll just incite more violence. I accept there's basically no prospect of peace, but I don't support violence as an answer to violence, except when a kid tries to bash me up in the playground.



...

My home is right next to the wall separating "Palestine" from "Israel". If you had a wall like that next to your home, I think you'd be aggravated too.


I have an urge to bring a religious concept into this argument, but I won't because I'll probably get banned.

Jack O'Neill
February 9th, 2006, 7:26 AM
But under the lead of an unskilled general,you can have abram tanks for all i care. A few suicide bombers and a lil' sneak around,and they'll reduce em' to scrap metal.
But here's the thing: There are no unskilled IDF officers. They're among the best in the whole fracking world, just as good as anything the Americans or Russians have to offer.

Hamas suicide bombers will be hopeless.

Eliana
February 10th, 2006, 11:43 AM
Jack: Thank you.

I personally don't care what anyone says. צ"הל, (IDF in Hebrew) IS the best army force this world will ever face.

I bet Hamas is scared to death right now: Whoever gets put as a leader will get bombed within a week or so.

Ryoutarou
February 10th, 2006, 1:27 PM
...which will lead to another war. Which of course will draw in other Middle East nations, which of course draws in other nations, and boom, you've got WWIII.

Otter Mii-kun
February 10th, 2006, 1:32 PM
...which will lead to another war. Which of course will draw in other Middle East nations, which of course draws in other nations, and boom, you've got WWIII.9-11-01 basically sparked the flames of fuel for WWIII as it is!

Eliana
February 12th, 2006, 3:11 PM
...which will lead to another war. Which of course will draw in other Middle East nations, which of course draws in other nations, and boom, you've got WWIII.
o.O

In case you haven't noticed, there already has been a war going on ever since...oh, I don't know, when Israel became a state, which was in 1948?

o.o

Jack O'Neill
February 12th, 2006, 3:40 PM
...which will lead to another war. Which of course will draw in other Middle East nations, which of course draws in other nations, and boom, you've got WWIII.
The other Middle Eastern nations will get their asses handed to them Six Day War-style.

Saudi Arabia is the only other Middle Eastern nation that uses modern American and British equipment (namely, F-15 Eagles and Panavia Tornados); their officers and other personnel aren't of the same calibre as the IDF, however. Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt all use outdated, Cold War-era Russian hardware (MiG-21s, for example); their men are definitely below the IDF in terms of performance.

As for other nations, well... Russia's not in a position to do anything right now, and China and the European Union wouldn't give a crap. There won't be any World War III.