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master chuckle
February 11th, 2006, 12:13 PM
Charizard is possibly the most overrated Pokemon in existence. It's glorified and worshipped to sickening extents because it *looks* draconic, and because the anime made it look so strong.
However, what I plan to do, is shed light on the so-called ''OMFGt3H00baHkewlDr@g0n'', and reveal to you that it is not what it is made out to be. It is actually a horrificly weak Pokemon, even though people consider it strong. First off......
It's only decent stats are Speed and Sp. Attack. That sounds good, but it's horrendous movepool has hardly any decent moves to back this up, and is limited to mostly Fire, Normal, and Dragon moves (most of which suck) Sure, it does have Dragon Dance and Sword Dance to boost it's attack, but with such sad defences and HP it wouldn't survive long enough to pull off that combo.
It also has terrible typing. Fire/Flying gives it a 4x weakness to Rock, and Rock Slide is one of the most common moves in competitive play. In gaining the Flying type it also gains weaknesses to Ice and Electric it didn't previously have, and Fire types have alot of weaknesses in the first place.
And lastly, it looks horrible. People claim it's cool becuase it's a dragon, but it looks nothing like one. It's just an overweight iguana with a giraffe-like head, awkward limbs, and cheap bat wings with ugly growths. It's also hearbreakingly cliched and generic, without a spark of creativity to it's name.
So, do you think Charizard is overrated? Discuss.

Agent9
February 11th, 2006, 12:34 PM
It's not "overrated". People don't even play it on Netbatttle. Everybody just considers it cool, and it's very recognizable. WHo cares if it has a bad movepool, it's a nice pokemon to marvel at and admire, especially with it's spirit.

Natsuki
February 11th, 2006, 01:15 PM
I myself have to agree with you on the most part. Charizard truly isn't everything the anime makes it out to be. Just like any Pokemon, it has strengths and weaknesses in battle and thus can both overcome and be downsized by any specific opponent.

You must remember that the Pokemon anime is generally pointed towards a younger audience, so most young kids would like to see a big fire-breathing dragon soaring through the skies kicking some serious butt on a lesser opponent, no? XD

This can also be said for Pikachu. Many people dislike it because it is over exaggerated in the anime and has unsaid power which does not seem divisible by its small stature. Although, Pikachu is an icon for the whole series because it was Ash's first Pokemon and such. However, in the games...omgosh it's a pain to have to train one of those. XD

So all in all, I do believe Charizard is overrated. But this is just another aspect of the Pokemon industry - I can't really say that they care too much about exploiting Pokemon in a realistic fashion.

~Kelsey

Crosman
February 11th, 2006, 01:22 PM
Charizard is not overated.

You shouldn't judge a pokemon based on only the game's. People need to realize that pokemon is not just about the Gameboy game and that all pokemon are trained different.

So what if Charizards move pool is bad, in the anime he can learn more then four moves at a time which makes pokemon even stronger.

Charizard does look like a dragon, if he doesn't then neither does Flygon, Altairia or Rayquaza.

If Zard is overated then so are almost every legendary, why? because in the Anime legendarys are untouchable but in the games they are easily defeated.

I rest my case.

Blastoise
February 11th, 2006, 01:34 PM
If you look at anything cool, it's bound to become overrated over time. I like Charizard quite a bit, from good memories of the old games and my brother and I proudly showing off our Pokemon (he had Charizard, I had Blastoise). Not the best? Perhaps. But that shouldn't stop people from using Chari if they want to. I'm not sure what you wanted to accomplish by "revealing the truth" as people are most likely bound to do what they want anyway. Though I suppose I do understand in a certain light; it's frustrating to see something recieve so much praise when you don't believe that it deserves it.

Charizard may not be the absolute best, but it's fun to use. And in my opinion, that's the most important part, especially when it comes to ingame play.

aragornbird
February 11th, 2006, 02:38 PM
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It’s not that Charizard isn’t the best or strongest Pokemon ever. But it was part of the original 151 Pokemon, which means it’s been around for a long time and is now a classic. And when it first came out, it appealed to a lot of kids because it was the only true fire-breathing dragon (a lot of people though Dragonite looked too much like Barney with wings). And you have to remember that it was on the most valuable Pokemon card of its time. Everyone at school wanted a Charizard card in their collection.
And because of these things, it gets a lot of attention.

And you shouldn’t underestimate Charizard, it can totally sweep teams when set up right. Belly Drum Charizard was a scourge of the GSC games. Getting over 1000 Attack in one turn is nothing to sneer at. In Advance, it can be even better with Salac Berry. The only thing that limits Belly Drumming Charizard is that it can only have 4 moves, which means there will always be a couple Pokemon it can’t handle with its other three moves.

�*♣♥♦�*♣♥♦�*♣♥♦�*♣♥♦

Kinzu_kiwi
February 11th, 2006, 03:19 PM
It is overused, it's your basic over-muscled devil-may-care beast of a dragon impression.

Samurai X
February 11th, 2006, 03:28 PM
I think every pokemon is overrated somehow, not just Charizard but I do agree that he is overrated, every pokemon has a weakness and that's that.

phunboy
February 11th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Is Charizard overrated, well he may not have the best stats or best move pool but hey a lot of Pokémon fall into the same predicament.

As I said in the past its not the Pokémon its the trainer that determines how good a Pokémon is as a good trainer can take a weak Pokémon and make it strong if the trainer raised it right. Course it is true there are certain Pokémon that may have better move pools and stats as well are simply easier to train but in the end all that matters is the trainer and not the Pokémon.

Chairman Kaga
February 11th, 2006, 05:52 PM
Not overrated at all...if not for the few people who have been fans of pokémon long enough to remember Charizard's glory days and the little children who only have a vague semblance that it may have been popular sometime in the past, there would be no memory of it whatsoever. I never judge a pokemon about how it performs on the game; instead, a better evaluation of whether a pokemon is overrated or not comes from seeing how the fanbase in general reacts to it. At one time, yes, it was overrated and as much a marketing tool as Pikachu and the Legendaries. Most of us recall the days when the Base Set Holofoil Charizard was the centerpiece of any child's collection; purportedly the rarest card in the game and the one that you would either be worshipped or pummeled for if anyone found out you owned it. He was representative of the games because he was, in the beginning, considered the epitome of dominance and, graphically, the "coolest" of all pokemon, not to mention the cornerstone of the pokemon-generated dragon fandom. Need I even mention the anime? Ash's Charizard was a great counterpoint to the common perception of the destructive, monstrous fiery beast with the character of the lazy, arrogant Charizard, and reinforced it being okay to like Charizard despite the immense fandom because the show went out of its way to give it personality. Fast forward three-quarters of a decade, though, and you'll find him almost nowhere, even in mainstream pokemon marketing. Despite the resurgence of popularity for the original 150 from FR/LG (and Charizard being prominently displayed on the cover of Fire Red itself), Charizard itself, if PC is to be taken as a cross-section of all pokemon fandom, not to mention the attitudes of young pokemon fans I've met in real life, has faded from popularity but has never lost the enjoyable allure that made it a fan favorite; I really don't see it being shamelessly promoted anywhere by Nintendo for any of their pokemon products unlike the new guard such as Rayquaza, Lati@s, Groudon/Kyogre, etc; and, speaking of which, it's apparent that Nintendo favors legendaries over starter final evolutions for promotions now; Blaziken, Sceptile, and Swampert are all power and no style unlike the carefully-crafted Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur, and all six, despite the former three being almost ten years removed from the originals, are rarely, if at all, shown outside bit parts in the anime and toys that rarely sell. He's never been overrated, but especially at this time there's no way to say that he is...he's nothing more than a fond memory and a symbol of the past.

Agent9
February 11th, 2006, 06:26 PM
Not overrated at all...if not for the few people who have been fans of pokémon long enough to remember Charizard's glory days and the little children who only have a vague semblance that it may have been popular sometime in the past, there would be no memory of it whatsoever. I never judge a pokemon about how it performs on the game; instead, a better evaluation of whether a pokemon is overrated or not comes from seeing how the fanbase in general reacts to it. At one time, yes, it was overrated and as much a marketing tool as Pikachu and the Legendaries. Most of us recall the days when the Base Set Holofoil Charizard was the centerpiece of any child's collection; purportedly the rarest card in the game and the one that you would either be worshipped or pummeled for if anyone found out you owned it. He was representative of the games because he was, in the beginning, considered the epitome of dominance and, graphically, the "coolest" of all pokemon, not to mention the cornerstone of the pokemon-generated dragon fandom. Need I even mention the anime? Ash's Charizard was a great counterpoint to the common perception of the destructive, monstrous fiery beast with the character of the lazy, arrogant Charizard, and reinforced it being okay to like Charizard despite the immense fandom because the show went out of its way to give it personality. Fast forward three-quarters of a decade, though, and you'll find him almost nowhere, even in mainstream pokemon marketing. Despite the resurgence of popularity for the original 150 from FR/LG (and Charizard being prominently displayed on the cover of Fire Red itself), Charizard itself, if PC is to be taken as a cross-section of all pokemon fandom, not to mention the attitudes of young pokemon fans I've met in real life, has faded from popularity but has never lost the enjoyable allure that made it a fan favorite; I really don't see it being shamelessly promoted anywhere by Nintendo for any of their pokemon products unlike the new guard such as Rayquaza, Lati@s, Groudon/Kyogre, etc; and, speaking of which, it's apparent that Nintendo favors legendaries over starter final evolutions for promotions now; Blaziken, Sceptile, and Swampert are all power and no style unlike the carefully-crafted Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur, and all six, despite the former three being almost ten years removed from the originals, are rarely, if at all, shown outside bit parts in the anime and toys that rarely sell. He's never been overrated, but especially at this time there's no way to say that he is...he's nothing more than a fond memory and a symbol of the past.

nice reasons, the best so far. He's not overrated, just an old pokemon fave. WHo cares if he sucks or rocks, he's a great pokemon.

charizard_maa
February 11th, 2006, 06:42 PM
I am a Charizard fan. I also agree with Chairman too. He is a great memory to have. That why I never change my name. I am an old time pokemon fan. Charizard what brought me into the Pokemon thing. Me with a mightly fire dragon by my side. He may not be a true dragon but he is cool to have. He what everybody thought a dragon is suppost to be.

As of what Master said about his game stats. Charizard has one of the best Attack, Speacil Attack and Speed in the game. He not the best but he can kick butt. I agree he doesn't have the biggest move pool but what he has is good enough. What you want as in move pool.

My Charizard set in FireRed
Earthquake
Flamethrower
Hidden Power Grass
Arial Ace.

I use the best of what he has. I thinking of teaching him Heat Wave. It seems more better but Flamethrower is a classic like the Fire Dragon himself.
He is the best as of his set.

Charizard is one of the best of the anytime. I don't care what you say but Charizard is great. He is a bit overrated a bit as in marketing and in anime but still is great. He is the best of the best and he brought old school back by FireRed. I using one in my Emereal game.

Smarties-chan
February 12th, 2006, 02:51 AM
Charizard is possibly the most overrated Pokemon in existence. It's glorified and worshipped to sickening extents because it *looks* draconic, and because the anime made it look so strong.
However, what I plan to do, is shed light on the so-called ''OMFGt3H00baHkewlDr@g0n'', and reveal to you that it is not what it is made out to be. It is actually a horrificly weak Pokemon, even though people consider it strong. First off......
It's only decent stats are Speed and Sp. Attack. That sounds good, but it's horrendous movepool has hardly any decent moves to back this up, and is limited to mostly Fire, Normal, and Dragon moves (most of which suck) Sure, it does have Dragon Dance and Sword Dance to boost it's attack, but with such sad defences and HP it wouldn't survive long enough to pull off that combo.
It also has terrible typing. Fire/Flying gives it a 4x weakness to Rock, and Rock Slide is one of the most common moves in competitive play. In gaining the Flying type it also gains weaknesses to Ice and Electric it didn't previously have, and Fire types have alot of weaknesses in the first place.
And lastly, it looks horrible. People claim it's cool becuase it's a dragon, but it looks nothing like one. It's just an overweight iguana with a giraffe-like head, awkward limbs, and cheap bat wings with ugly growths. It's also hearbreakingly cliched and generic, without a spark of creativity to it's name.
So, do you think Charizard is overrated? Discuss.
Um... since when have Fire/Flying types been weak against Ice? Do I need to remind you that Fire is resistant against Ice?

Anyway... Charizard is a little overated, but in Netbattle, for example, you don't see Charizards too often. But, if you can use Charizard correctly, it can do some serious butt kicking. It has enough defenses to survive a few attacks though (even though rock attacks are almost sure to do one hit KO). Even though I'm not a big fan of overused (or overrated) Pokémon, I still have to say Charizard has always appealed to me (not in the games, though. It just looks so cute in the anime *huggles Charizard* ^_^) Also, what little kid wouldn't love a huge fire breathing dragon-ish Pokémon? And the fact that it's one of the first Pokémon ever made and one of Ash's strongest Pokémon in the anime makes it even more popular. And because of Charizard's 'cool' (I still think it's cute rather than cool though ^_^) appearance it's always used on T-shirts and ads -_- And back to how it performs in battle, sure it can't learn many moves, but it learns some of the best physical attacks, Swords dance and Belly drum. One time, when I used my so far best Netbattle team, I accidentaly used the wrong move against a Charizard and it sweeped my whole team -_-

I don't think Charizard is very overrated, more like like over advertised -_-

grandmaster192
February 12th, 2006, 03:25 AM
I think dragonite looks better then charizard.

Alter Ego
February 12th, 2006, 05:02 AM
I think dragonite looks better then charizard.

Gee...thanks for sharing that invaluable piece of information with us. -_- [/Sarcasm]

Seriously though, the chairman has a point. You hardly see anything of Charizard these days, also a partial reason for the infrequency of its use in NetBattle, if you want to find a real ridiculously overhyped pokémon to rant about then I'd suggest turning your attention to 'T3H 1337 MJU2', 'RAIKVAZA', and 'D30XI5 PWNZORS'. The sheer amount of NB teams containing all those three makes me want to scream and bash someone's head in. <.< Particularly Rayquaza is disgustingly overrated as it's really little more than a slightly buffed up Salamence with particularly ugly graphics and a sucky signature trait which rarely, if ever, sees use. One proper Ice Beam drops it. xP But getting back to the point, yes, today's Charizard fans are mostly the nostalgic older generation who still remember the R/B/Y days. And although I'm fond of the big lug it doesn't mean that I'd use Charizard a lot since I consider both Venusaur and Blastoise better.

Also, you're claiming that Charizard's physical moves are almost all Normal type? What planet are you from creature? Charizard is capable of learning several of the most popular physical sweeper moves; Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Brick Break. Plus, being half-flying, it gets STAB for Aerial Ace/Hidden Power [Flying] which makes it capable of wrecking some serious havoc, plus, being half-fire and possessing the 'Blaze' trait it can easily sweep away popular physical walls like Skarmory and Weezing. It's part-fire type also makes it invulnerable to the bane of all physical sweepers, the Burn status. Yes, Zard's statline isn't the most glorious around, but there's a reason for why Bellyzard used to be one of the top OU builds in netbattle, you know. xP It was precisely because of Charizard's former power that new builds emerged, builds made to counter that kind of sweeping. Also, if you've got the wrong pokémon (I.e. One without your precious Rock Slide/Water attack) out when Charizard is switched in, then said zard can put up a Substitute during the switch and then Belly Drum, activating a Salac Berry which makes it faster than most and start sweeping through your team, occasionally using a Blaze boosted Flamethrower/Fire Blast to get rid of physical walls. =P

grandmaster192
February 12th, 2006, 05:21 AM
Rayquaza is a great pokemon. It's not overrated.

Dragonfree
February 12th, 2006, 05:32 AM
Oh, shut up.

You know, some people like Charizard because they LIKE it, just like you like maybe Murkrow or Delibird or some other oh-so-neglected Pokémon. Some people really don't give a **** whether Charizard is of any use in competitive battling or not, or whether some random person thinks it's cool to insult its looks in some ridiculous "Hi-I-want-everybody-to-see-the-light-and-agree-with-me" thread.

But nooooo, of course all Charizard haters are convinced that people ONLY like Charizard because it's "OMGTEHPOWAFULLDRAGON!!!!!11!" in the animé. Or because it's advertised a lot and generally popular. Nobody likes it for the same reason you like your little underused favorite, do they? Because people only have a valid opinion if it agrees with yours, right?

-_-; Have a nice day.

Smarties-chan
February 12th, 2006, 09:19 AM
Oh, shut up.

You know, some people like Charizard because they LIKE it, just like you like maybe Murkrow or Delibird or some other oh-so-neglected Pokémon. Some people really don't give a **** whether Charizard is of any use in competitive battling or not, or whether some random person thinks it's cool to insult its looks in some ridiculous "Hi-I-want-everybody-to-see-the-light-and-agree-with-me" thread.

But nooooo, of course all Charizard haters are convinced that people ONLY like Charizard because it's "OMGTEHPOWAFULLDRAGON!!!!!11!" in the animé. Or because it's advertised a lot and generally popular. Nobody likes it for the same reason you like your little underused favorite, do they? Because people only have a valid opinion if it agrees with yours, right?

-_-; Have a nice day.
People should like Charizard because they like it ^_^ I couldn't possibly care less how well it does in battle. Or how cool it looks in the animé -_-

Charizard has got a bad reputation because of people thinking everyone likes it because it's powerful and/or cool >.< I just like it because it's cute and because there are so many Charizard haters out there ;_;
I think dragonite looks better then charizard.
Exactly what everyone here wanted to know[/SARCASM] That doesn't relate to the topic in any way (the only thing that somehow relates to the topic there is the name Charizard -_-).
Rayquaza is a great pokemon. It's not overrated.
Not overrated? *bursts laughing* it's as overrated as overrated can get. Almost any sweeper can OHKO or two hit KO Rayquaza -_-

PS. I don't think that had anything to do with the topic either.

Lord Nidokingu
February 12th, 2006, 09:40 AM
God**** people with no time on their hands... Get a life. Quit trying to "Help people to see the light" and "show us the error of our ways." You know what? You're stereotyping fans of Charizard the SAME f***in' way APers stereotype pokmon fans in general. Why the hell can't you see that? You make me sick. Let people like what they want to like, shut up, and then go do something more productive with your life. For the good of mankind, show everyone that evolution works, rather than the opposite. >>

master chuckle
February 12th, 2006, 09:55 AM
God**** people with no time on their hands... Get a life. Quit trying to "Help people to see the light" and "show us the error of our ways." You know what? You're stereotyping fans of Charizard the SAME f***in' way APers stereotype pokmon fans in general. Why the hell can't you see that? You make me sick. Let people like what they want to like, shut up, and then go do something more productive with your life. For the good of mankind, show everyone that evolution works, rather than the opposite. >>
Though you do have a point, I feel you went about expressing it in the wrong way.
I guess I really am being too specific. It's just I've had alot of bad experiences with Chariz00bs in the past, and I'm tired of seeing it glorified so much. You can like Charizard if you want, but I wanted to prove it wasn't the ''God'' it's made out by *some* to be. I'm glad some people can appreciate Charizard in the right ways, but no matter what, I'll always hate it.

Dragonfree
February 12th, 2006, 10:14 AM
This is still a ridiculous topic. If you hate Charizard, fine... but don't make entire topics to "inform" other people that Charizard sucks.

master chuckle
February 12th, 2006, 10:17 AM
This is still a ridiculous topic. If you hate Charizard, fine... but don't make entire topics to "inform" other people that Charizard sucks.
Yes, I have been a little ridiculous. I think we should just accept we have diffrent opinions and leave it at that. I'll get a mod to close tthis.

kohei
February 13th, 2006, 02:17 AM
...knowing that a mod is going to close this...
Wha... what do you mean Charziard is overrated? I mean, it looks big, mean draconic etc, but it's darn weak.

I mean, I saw kids saying:
Kid A: "lol, I'm using Charizard, I'm gonna lose"
Kid B: "Hahaha, Rockslided"
Kid A: "Haha, OHKO'd"

Heck, and these kids were quite young too.

Anyhow, I used a Charizard for fun on Netbattle (ofcourse, with the intent of not winning).
I forgot what moves it had... since it got killed by an Aerodactyl's Rockslide :/

Johto Boy
February 13th, 2006, 01:06 PM
I don't think Charizard is overrated. I love Charizard, mostly because of his awesome looks. He is good, but like every other Pokemon, he has weaknesses.

Drummershuff
February 16th, 2006, 06:17 AM
I wouldn't say that he is over rated. He is a very strong Pokemon, But its more Blazikien that people choose as the strongest fire nowadays.

flash boy
February 16th, 2006, 06:21 AM
I would say Pikachu is the most overrated even though some people don't know pokemon they would say pikachu. That is because they learn it from friends so charizard isn't.

Bekki
February 16th, 2006, 07:02 AM
To me I don't think that Charizard is not overrated. After Mew it is my all time fave Pokemon. People need to realise that every single Pokemon has strenths and weekness whether they are legendary or not. I one of my games one trainer made my Charizard faint. So I don't think that Charizard is over rated one bit and he is only in a few Pokemon episodes and in Pokemon the Movie 3. This is only my opinion and i am only voicing it.

master chuckle
February 17th, 2006, 02:50 AM
Why can't people accept that Charizard is overrated?
I appreciate that some people like Charizard for there own special reasons, but there's no denying that many n00bs worship it and hail it as some sort of God. All I wanted to do was tell you it wasn't the God n00bs make it out to be.
Mehh, I just hate overrated Pokemon in general. Like Alakazam, Mewtwo, Blaziken, Groudon, Rayquaza, Pikachu......

Kotowari
February 19th, 2006, 08:17 AM
I like Charizard AND Rayquaza. My Charizard on Firered was my second strongest pokemon (after Mewtwo).I realy loved training 'em. And his stats may be not like 'wow', but he is a good Pokemon.