Brokeback Mountain

[Geometric-sama]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread already, with all the controversy. I saw it today with my friends, mainly to see what all the fuss was about, and I was really surprised. I didn't expect to enjoy it so much - it's one of the most beautiful and subtle films I've ever seen. It was also incredibly sad, and I walked out of the cinema crying. So... have you seen it? Will you? What do you think?

[Charaxes]

I have not seen the movie nor will I, because..."does the world need gay cowboys?" Yeah, my friend saw it and beyond the pointless sex, she was pleased with it.

My issue with the whole movie is the publicity, in that of they are not upfront with the politicial angle Hollywood is going for. They want to mainstream gay behavior whereas the rest of America isn't quite up for that, and that shows how far removed Hollywood is from the rest of the world (particularly when you compare to the current fare with Felicity Huffman being a transgendered man, Dan Futterman in Capote, a gay...I forget his job at the moment). I don't mind the pushing the gay agenda, if Hollywood likes gay cowboys, let them have gay cowboys, just be honest about it. They're not, so here we are.

It will win the Best Picture and all these awards despite the fact it hardly draws a profit, think it had like 150,000 gross so far. Either way, no. Just addressing a much needed point.

[Kim]

I've not seen it, but I want to. My English professor actually said it has virtually nothing to do with homosexuals, and more about life.

[oni flygon]

I quote my friend from Film Class the day after he saw the movie:

So dude, I found the perfect formula to making an award winning movie that'll surely catch everyone's attention! Make a movie about gay guys and them having all these raunchy scenes and call it a "love story" and it'll win awards! Why? Because if they don't win any or if someone says that they hate or dislike a movie, they're homophobes!

I rest my case and I still think that Crash should win the Oscars for Best Film. I was more touched in that film than this "love story". =P

[Barboach]

they metioned something like that in american idol (i know lol) were there were these bad singers and they made a short thing about it called brokenote mountain lol

But the real movie was so sad....so sad.... weird thing is i didn't cry o.o

[Totakikay]

i haven't seen it but i know it must be a great movie.

the controversy is nothing. its just an adoring and quiet love movie that deserves many awards, and the movie has! its fair, accurate, and inclusive in how they expressed gay lives. that was a wonderful experience for many i believe. we thank Hollywood :)

[Kim]

How is it controversial? What's more controversial--gay guys kissing or Angelina Jolie completely naked with a guy?

I think people need to lighten up on being offended by gay men.

[Totakikay]

i know a lot of people who said that the movie was good. i haven't watched it but i know that its already a lovely movie. there are some people out there who are homophobic, like some politicians and a few movie critics who say its wrong and perverted. NO its NOT.

[Kim]

i know a lot of people who said that the movie was good. i haven't watched it but i know that its already a lovely movie. there are some people out there who are homophobic, like some politicians and a few movie critics who say its wrong and perverted. NO its NOT.

Yeah. And I mean, even if they did show sex or something in the movie...it's no worse or better than them showing heterosexuals doing those things in other movies.

I really do want to see it. My best friend is gay and he said that it's a movie for EVERYONE, not just gays.

[Geometric-sama]

You should see it. I wasn't going to see it because I didn't think I'd have time, but it turned out that my friends and I had one day to get together before class started again for this year so we wanted to see it. It's absolutely beautiful. It really makes you think about life. It's not about rampant sex or anything, it's about a relationship and how that relationship affects life.

[Kim]

You should see it. I wasn't going to see it because I didn't think I'd have time, but it turned out that my friends and I had one day to get together before class started again for this year so we wanted to see it. It's absolutely beautiful. It really makes you think about life. It's not about rampant sex or anything, it's about a relationship and how that relationship affects life.

I think I will...but I'll probably have to wait 'til June. I doubt it's still playing in the rinky dink Regal Cinema near me, and I know my friend will get it on DVD when he visits me in June.:classic: But you're absolutely right--people have this absurb notion that all gay people do is have sex 24/7, which isn't true. That's like saying all chick flicks are just sex or something.

[Chairman Kaga]

I have not seen the movie nor will I, because..."does the world need gay cowboys?" Yeah, my friend saw it and beyond the pointless sex, she was pleased with it.

My issue with the whole movie is the publicity, in that of they are not upfront with the politicial angle Hollywood is going for. They want to mainstream gay behavior whereas the rest of America isn't quite up for that, and that shows how far removed Hollywood is from the rest of the world (particularly when you compare to the current fare with Felicity Huffman being a transgendered man, Dan Futterman in Capote, a gay...I forget his job at the moment). I don't mind the pushing the gay agenda, if Hollywood likes gay cowboys, let them have gay cowboys, just be honest about it. They're not, so here we are.

It will win the Best Picture and all these awards despite the fact it hardly draws a profit, think it had like 150,000 gross so far. Either way, no. Just addressing a much needed point.

Thank you, John, for a most articulate wording of a most unpopular viewpoint among the PC populace. Despite my knowledge of Hollywood being based solely on what I see on television, I have come to the same conclusion about this movie. It has the most cleverly-disguised shock factor I've ever seen, a movie created with the sole purpose of pandering to the activists who have a large majority control over the Academy, the ultimate goal being to use the award stage and the ad nauseum media replays of that winning moment as a soapbox. This seems to be the new trend; rumors continue to circulate that Million Dollar Baby won over The Aviator at last year's Academy Awards simply because it advocated euthenasia, for example. Our friends on the left coast are more vocal and will go to greater lengths to influence the common folk than is ever appropriate, and this is just an extension of that, perfectly crafted in that it contains the trap that Niko mentioned and that it goes to great lengths to make it look like an uncommon artistic achievement.

Let us not skirt past the issue of homosexuality in the movie; this, inherently, does not make the movie bad, but the way in which it is presented and the spirit in which it was inserted into the movie makes it far different from something crafted with art and not agenda in mind; for example, the movie Philadelphia, which I love very much. I will not take the time to summarize it, but, for anyone who has seen it, they know what I'm describing. With Brokeback mountain, the gay issue seems to be the central idea in the movie, which they first decided to build a plot around, then, after this was complete, they thought long and hard how to make it seem like they had done none of this in the first place in such a way that the Hollywood elite would praise them for a job well done on creatively hiding their intent and the rest of us would praise them for a job well done on the movie as a whole. It is the all-too-Hollywood method of inserting their way of life into that of another group of people (especially groups that they see as backward or inferior) that is the icing on the cake, though; the homosexual cowboy is a concept that exists solely to make certain groups of people feel like their culture is being invaded, mocked, what have you; add in the unnecessary sex (nudity and graphic sex seem to be becoming more and more important to a film if it hopes to be nominated for anything) and scenes tailor-made to spit in the eye of the enemies of Hollywood and you have something that will be regarded as a "classic" for decades.

[oni flygon]

Thank you, John, for a most articulate wording of a most unpopular viewpoint among the PC populace. Despite my knowledge of Hollywood being based solely on what I see on television, I have come to the same conclusion about this movie. It has the most cleverly-disguised shock factor I've ever seen, a movie created with the sole purpose of pandering to the activists who have a large majority control over the Academy, the ultimate goal being to use the award stage and the ad nauseum media replays of that winning moment as a soapbox. This seems to be the new trend; rumors continue to circulate that Million Dollar Baby won over The Aviator at last year's Academy Awards simply because it advocated euthenasia, for example. Our friends on the left coast are more vocal and will go to greater lengths to influence the common folk than is ever appropriate, and this is just an extension of that, perfectly crafted in that it contains the trap that Niko mentioned and that it goes to great lengths to make it look like an uncommon artistic achievement.

Let us not skirt past the issue of homosexuality in the movie; this, inherently, does not make the movie bad, but the way in which it is presented and the spirit in which it was inserted into the movie makes it far different from something crafted with art and not agenda in mind; for example, the movie Philadelphia, which I love very much. I will not take the time to summarize it, but, for anyone who has seen it, they know what I'm describing. With Brokeback mountain, the gay issue seems to be the central idea in the movie, which they first decided to build a plot around, then, after this was complete, they thought long and hard how to make it seem like they had done none of this in the first place in such a way that the Hollywood elite would praise them for a job well done on creatively hiding their intent and the rest of us would praise them for a job well done on the movie as a whole. It is the all-too-Hollywood method of inserting their way of life into that of another group of people (especially groups that they see as backward or inferior) that is the icing on the cake, though; the homosexual cowboy is a concept that exists solely to make certain groups of people feel like their culture is being invaded, mocked, what have you; add in the unnecessary sex (nudity and graphic sex seem to be becoming more and more important to a film if it hopes to be nominated for anything) and scenes tailor-made to spit in the eye of the enemies of Hollywood and you have something that will be regarded as a "classic" for decades.


Why thanks for reading my post Alan, as I believe that some people here did not even possibly read my post or just ignored it for fear of lack of word. =D

Well if you ask me about it, I'm repeating what I said in my Film Class:

This movie isn't really anything but just the gay hype. If you remove the other dude and replaced him with a girl, it's just one boring love story that I would sleep through no matter what, homosexual or not. I'm not saying it's a bad movie. I'm just saying that I missed the whole "hype" of having this movie one of the best of the year and I still see it as a boring love story. As I mentioned above, my nod for the year is to Crash. =P

[pokejungle]

Honestly, I'm not going to go see it. To be very frank and blunt, I don't want to see a "gay cowboy movie". No, I know that it has a very "deep" plot from what I've heard...but I'd rather use my time to see a better film, with better morals.

In the first place, I just find general problems with everyone saying it's good...because it's about homosexuality. As someone mentioned, it's like if you don't want to see it, that's an auto-homophobe label. First off, I'm not that homophobic. Yeah, I don't really understand the whole issue, so I won't say that I'm completely comfortable about it...when I'm really not. It's just that I don't want to watch a movie based around two guys loving each other. That's just a big turn off when looking to see what's playing on Saturday ;<

So, let the movies put homosexuality into our culture through gay cowboys, but I don't want to be a party of it. No matter how well it's directed, written, or portrayed.

...

Was I too blunt or frank? I hope that was respectful D:

[Geometric-sama]

With Brokeback mountain, the gay issue seems to be the central idea in the movie, which they first decided to build a plot around, then, after this was complete, they thought long and hard how to make it seem like they had done none of this in the first place in such a way that the Hollywood elite would praise them for a job well done on creatively hiding their intent and the rest of us would praise them for a job well done on the movie as a whole. It is the all-too-Hollywood method of inserting their way of life into that of another group of people (especially groups that they see as backward or inferior) that is the icing on the cake, though; the homosexual cowboy is a concept that exists solely to make certain groups of people feel like their culture is being invaded, mocked, what have you; add in the unnecessary sex (nudity and graphic sex seem to be becoming more and more important to a film if it hopes to be nominated for anything) and scenes tailor-made to spit in the eye of the enemies of Hollywood and you have something that will be regarded as a "classic" for decades.
Unfortunately, I am unable to agree with you on this point. Brokeback Mountain is based on a critically acclaimed short story. The piece of writing in question was considered good enough to make into a feature film, and any "creative hiding" was not injected by Hollywood, but by the author. There was really only one sex scene (as opposed to bedroom/tent scenes); while perhaps it wasn't necessary in the strictest sense of the word, I felt that it served to express the discomfort of the men and their shock realisation in a way that something "less explicit" (though it wasn't at all explicit, if that makes sense; I'm tired) would not have.

[Chairman Kaga]

Unfortunately, I am unable to agree with you on this point. Brokeback Mountain is based on a critically acclaimed short story. The piece of writing in question was considered good enough to make into a feature film, and any "creative hiding" was not injected by Hollywood, but by the author. There was really only one sex scene (as opposed to bedroom/tent scenes); while perhaps it wasn't necessary in the strictest sense of the word, I felt that it served to express the discomfort of the men and their shock realisation in a way that something "less explicit" (though it wasn't at all explicit, if that makes sense; I'm tired) would not have.

It's still Hollywood's choice what they make into a motion picture and what they put aside; even if the author had a more implicit intent, Hollywood molded the overall reason for the movie's production and subsequent promotional media blitz into something produced solely for people who derive some sort of sense of counterculture eliteness from these kind of movie concepts. It was made to win awards, which is not uncommon for many movies. Rarely are there ever movies that "accidentally" win major awards; and it just shows where Hollywood's mind is right now that the producers of this movie believed it would be a critical and award juggernaut (and that it is actually following through on this.)

Regarding the sex scene, it's not particularly shocking that there's one in this movie; I was just stating that it's a symptom of a larger problem in Hollywood, that those who are entrusted with judging what's quality and what isn't have their minds in the gutter.

[Kim]

OR maybe it won an award because OMFG, it was...I don't know...good? Or at least, a lot of people thought it was good.

I thought this thread was just about the movie. Not what awards it got.

A lot of shitty movies get awards. Don't get your panties in a twist.

[Chairman Kaga]

And congrats on being person #5764925674 who thinks that their opinion is somehow infallable just because they're snide. How incredibly original of you.

Hollywood's definition of quality is based on the level of controversy in a movie, not on any actual relevant standard. I've never denied that it is a good movie, but it was not made to be a harmless work of art.

[Charaxes]

I don't know, Alan, you did a lovely job taking my thought another step further. Probably what makes me love you so much.

I do hope no one thinks too much of this. ;)

It's been a slow year, people are tired of movies and the liberalism, so I guess they decided to push for another direction. Yes, the Academy is conservative or that is fading with a movie like this and like Alan said (and I'm paraphrasing), there are plenty movies that are gay themed that don't get the awards or don't have the gay theme as the A plot than the subplot. Just unlike those, Brokeback is manufactured now as the Hollywood vs. Middle America. My friend said it took ten years to make from the short story to the movie. I think back then it was a loser and no one wanted it but since the shift is going gay with such fare as the L Word, it was good timing now.

That's probably what is bringing this trouble is the timing. That and the schism to what Hollywood/Middle America is getting wider and wider anymore. Beyond that, it's just a movie.

With a lead named Ennis. That doesn't deserve praise, that should get ridicule. Giggles, Ennis.

[Kim]

Or maybe it's because gay people are people, too, and there is nothing "shocking" about them.

And congrats on being person #5764925674 who thinks that their opinion is somehow infallable just because they're snide. How incredibly original of you.

And how original of you to pull your psuedo intellectual shiza on someone cracking a joke.

[Charaxes]

Or maybe it's because gay people are people, too, and there is nothing "shocking" about them.

Well, you got to understand that there are two types of gay people, the ones who are modest and the ones who flaunt it EVERYWHERE and make it the ONLY issue.

The latter type I don't care for because it undermines the legitimate gays and just overrides the message of acceptance/tolarance to shoving it in people's faces and that's why they fail and the gay movement needs to stop that if they want to get anywhere with people.

But unfortunately for Hollywood, they are filled with those who rather flaunt than to legitimatize themselves. Pity.

[Kurosaki]

I will never watch a movie like that throughout the course of my entire life... never. However, I do agree with what Kaga and DW (am I okay referring to you as that? @@) are saying. I know a few people who've seen it, and they said it was basically the point of the movie is centered around "ZOMG gay guys!" Direct quote, too... I guess it shows the maturity of my friends, XD I personally have no issues with gay people... but a sex scene... a little over-the-top if you ask me...

I was watching a show the other night that makes fun of the Canadian government. It had a fake commercial called "Brokeback Martin" that had Paul Martin (ex-Prime Minister) and Stephen Harper (new Prime Minister) and kind of put them in the place of the main characters, for like a movie commercial. I found it quite humorous...

[Kim]

Well, you got to understand that there are two types of gay people, the ones who are modest and the ones who flaunt it EVERYWHERE and make it the ONLY issue.

The latter type I don't care for because it undermines the legitimate gays and just overrides the message of acceptance/tolarance to shoving it in people's faces and that's why they fail and the gay movement needs to stop that if they want to get anywhere with people.

But unfortunately for Hollywood, they are filled with those who rather flaunt than to legitimatize themselves. Pity.

How can you be "legitimately gay?" The over-the-top gay fashion designers are just as gay as the gay guy down the road.

Some gays aren't afraid of being gay, and others don't make a big deal out of it.

Either way, I love my gay man friends, and we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[Chairman Kaga]

And how original of you to pull your psuedo intellectual shiza on someone cracking a joke.

Lawlzer, I don't know what I'm talking about because I can put together a sentence. Pseudointellectual is actually a pet term of the pseudointellectual; not to say that you are, but if you're going to take the in-your-face approach to debating, don't use such tired terms. I love how the people who call others intolerant merely for disagreeing with them are the least open to other opinions; they can't decide whether to be defensive or offensive so they take the middle ground and attack their opponent instead of their positions.

But I'd say it would be prudent to end this now; people don't create these type of threads without expecting (in some cases hoping) for the controversy to pit people against each other. I've vented my frustrations, I have nothing else to say on the topic, so I'm going to remove myself from it for the sake of this pointless sub-topic ending. Odds are people are eventually going to enter this topic and end up getting it closed, but not yet.


John, many thanks for putting forth the point again; none of their points will ever be accepted as long as they feel they have to constantly remind us of their presence as if our not continually treating them as the center of attention in all facets of our lives is offensive, spiteful, intentional, what have you. Militancy in anything is never productive.

[Ryoutarou]

Or maybe it's because gay people are people, too, and there is nothing "shocking" about them.As DW said, it's more because the film doesn't portray it as such. I know the short story just tosses it in as if it were a straight couple, but with the movie it makes it title scene. All the reviews I've read and friends who have seen it tell me that it didn't live up to the story. It's just a pretenious movie built on the fact that being gay is apparently supposed to shock people, yet get them to accept it. Eventually I'll see it myself, but as of now it just doesn't look like a good movie at all.


How can you be "legitimately gay?" The over-the-top gay fashion designers are just as gay as the gay guy down the road.

Some gays aren't afraid of being gay, and others don't make a big deal out of it.

Either way, I love my gay man friends, and we're going to have to agree to disagree.Because there are people that try to make it the focal point of their life. To people like that, it's not "I love this person and I want the world to know" it's "I love this person of the SAME GENDER and I want the world to know, even if they don't want to know I'll try to say it as loud as I can". The people that aren't afraid of being gay are the ones that can hold hands with someone of the same sex in public, or kiss in public, like any other couple would. But there are some that set out to make it seem that loving someone of the same sex is a "shock effect" type thing.

Oh and try to watch the swearing please.

And now I have to (sadly) ask everyone to watch what they say now as this seems like it'll probably get out of hand.

[pokejungle]

Well, you got to understand that there are two types of gay people, the ones who are modest and the ones who flaunt it EVERYWHERE and make it the ONLY issue.

Yeah, I totally agree here. The latter are hard for a hardcore conservative, such as myself, to get along with.

Alan, I'm rather disappointed you took the bait to get into a whole argument. Everyone can see that you're smart, and that the remark probably came off harsher that it was meant as.

Anyways ^^" I think Hollywood likes love stories. And what's the one crucial part of a love story nowadays? Sex. So it's a given that it had to be included in Brokeback Mountain.

The inclusion of sex in all aspects of our society is another problem, for a different LJ rant ;<

[I_WILL_OWN_YOU]

Gay people are all nasty , vulgar people that should all be dropped off on some desserted island .Never to be seen again in time they will all die of as they will not procreate any children.

[Charaxes]

Kurosaki, calling me DW is fine by me.

I'll say this before this closes, I enjoyed this, mostly had fun putting forth my POV and the issues of the movie in a legitimate way. Just has me amused overall. Hehehe. Alan, you should feel the same but I'm glad you feel strongly about it though.

Kim, everyone has backed me up, so I won't say anything.

Congrats, I WILL OWN YOU, you just discredited yourself from future debate. Whee!

[sleazel]

i want to see it cause i know ill bawl - i tend to do that & most guys i know dont so yea crying :)

[Kim]

Chairman, DarkWheezing, you make me feel smart. Thanks.

[Ryoutarou]

Kim, everyone has backed me up, so I won't say anything.

Congrats, I WILL OWN YOU, you just discredited yourself from future debate. Whee!
Now that wasn't necessary at all, people backed you up, good for you. No need to flaunt it with "I will own you" comments.

Chairman, DarkWheezing, you make me feel smart. Thanks....nor was this necessary.

I'm just locking this thread if I have to come in here again to tell people to cool off.

[I_WILL_OWN_YOU_]

Now that wasn't necessary at all, people backed you up, good for you. No need to flaunt it with "I will own you" comments.

...nor was this necessary.

I'm just locking this thread if I have to come in here again to tell people to cool off.
Yeah ,If a comment like that gets people banned around here ,and it wasnt even that harsh.Then that is just not cool modding at all unless he took it personal because he is confused about his orientation.

[Charaxes]

Well, the first half of that was more "what more can I say? I can't add to the debate anymore." I wasn't being smug there if that was you were thinking. This is why I don't like text. No inflections.

The I WILL OWN YOU part was at the member, I WILL OWN YOU, which can make the name associating confusing. If any malice, I apologize, just talk like that (his first comment) can rub people the wrong way.

I didn't mean to be gratitious. Sorry if I was.

[pokejungle]

Gay people are all nasty , vulgar people that should all be dropped off on some desserted island .Never to be seen again in time they will all die of as they will not procreate any children.

That's similar to what the Nazis thought of Jewish people. Please, don't perpetuate hate. I've already expressed my conservative views on homosexuality, but I'd never say something like that.

So yes, you deserved a ban in a very big way.

[oni flygon]

Chairman, DarkWheezing, you make me feel smart. Thanks.
Look, ma'am. There are only two people who I refuse to argue with. And that's Lily and Kaga. If you're going to be brave and actually call Kaga overthere a "pseudointelectual"... oh you're in for it. Please. Right now, you're flogging a dead horse. Oh and yes, I also observed that you broke a certain rule called the "no swearing" rule and I'm sure that's a warnable offense. ;D


And yeah. Please try to make the conversation less volatile. You don't want to see the thread close, do you?

[Ryoutarou]

Well, the first half of that was more "what more can I say? I can't add to the debate anymore." I wasn't being smug there if that was you were thinking. This is why I don't like text. No inflections.

The I WILL OWN YOU part was at the member, I WILL OWN YOU, which can make the name associating confusing. If any malice, I apologize, just talk like that (his first comment) can rub people the wrong way.
If you can't add to the debate anymore, then just step away from it. Topics like these tend to be very touchy with certain people. And sorry about the second part, didn't see that post.

Yeah ,If a comment like that gets people banned around here ,and it wasnt even that harsh.Then that is just not cool modding at all unless he took it personal because he is confused about his orientation.
Do I give if it's "cool modding"? A lot of the things I do as a staff member are unpopular, doesn't mean I won't do it. Comments like those won't get people banned, but the past here has shown that these conversations are very touchy subjects. A lot of people can and do take things the wrong way very often. Your other comment was uncalled for in every right. Joking or not, it doesn't matter, people still get offended at things like that. That "joke" was just in poor taste to begin with.

So this topic's gonna be locked now. Anyone that wants to make a new one is free to do so, just try not to comment on this part of the subject.