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nicoleb
March 23rd, 2006, 05:36 AM
Ah, yeah, I was just browsing through some episode guides of Card Captor Sakura, which were written by peacewish, and I noticed that a number of Japanese expressions were used over and over again. I’ll just give you a few examples:

"Demo, you always make clothes for me. I feel kinda bad about it."
"Ne, do you know where Syaoran is? I was planning to eat lunch with him, but he's not around."
"Dou shita no? Are you tired? Here, I'll switch with you."
"Daijobu ka?"

Now, may I just ask you... Is it really necessary to use these words? You don't have to be a Japanese genius to understand what they mean. Anyone calling themselves an Anime-otaku would know them. What I continue to see every day (no, not just by peacewish, but with all sorts of people) is a Japanese admiration mixed with a futile attempt to show off. I mean, wow... You understand the words 'demo,' 'ne,' and 'daijoUbu?' Amazing. Give yourself a big round of applause, you now know Japanese.

Just recently, I got an email from a friend. It suggested some various Manga ideas that we were planning on doing together. One sentence read:

"Gomen nasai, but the Inn is booked out for a party of two."

Let me just point out that aside from 'gomen nasai,' 'hai,' and 'arigatou,' he knows next to nothing about Japanese culture. EG, suggesting that some character in Japan's Hiragana name started with 'Co.' Anyone see the problem with that?

I see this kind of crap all over the place. People who know practically zero about Japanese, and who are not stuffed to learn, trying to be cleaver and using Japanese words in English sentences left and right. And that's not even the half of it. Mistranslations are everywhere. As of the following line (also by peacewish).

"Mm!"

I think what she meant to say was 'un.' Actually, I'm positive. Every place where 'un' should be, 'mm' is always written in its place. When intending to show off and act like you know more Japanese than you actually do, it's usually wise to get you information right. Else you just end up making a total idiot out of yourself.

I also noticed a Fansub of an Anime (Fruits Basket) used the word 'kawaii.' Really. 'Kawaii' happens to have a translation. And, thanks to numbers of English fans, practically everyone should know what it means by now.

The only Japanese words that should be used in English conversation are words with no real translation. (Usually supplementary ('-chan,' 'kun,' etc.) is often kept in Fansubs, though not always.) 'Gomen nasai,' 'daijoubu,' 'arigatou,' 'ne,' 'demo,' 'kawaii,' and whatever the hell else these idiots use have translations.

So tell me; is it really cleaver to use these simple words in English articles, summaries and whatnot? No. And it's starting to get annoying, as well. Seriously. I don't know how much more I can take.

Dakara, minna agree with atashi, ne? Don't anata think that this constant use of Japanese words in English things is Okkuu ka? It's still kawaii if minna doesn't agree with atashi. Demo, onegai think about it. Arigatou.

For those of you who don't speak Japanese wonna-be talk, I basically said; 'don't you agree?' A question that I asked actually has a point to it for once. Answer it.

Chairman Kaga
March 23rd, 2006, 01:42 PM
I'll make this short and sweet, because I recently typed something like this in a similar thread about a month back. I'm tired of people who think they can write all the rules for the anime/Japanese fandom and be condescending to those who don't know as much about it as they do. No one seems to realize that the anime culture is not an imitation of Japanese culture, it is its own culture, and people having harmless fun with the bits of the language they pick up from the shows they watch is a facet of this; nothing to be seen as ignorant or backwards, and those who think having fluency in the language is a necessary asset for being allowed to count as an anime fan create a pedestal on which to lord themselves over others. If someone's ego depends on feeling that they're "better" or more "legitimate" anime fans than other people on the sold basis of having a command over the language, it's simply a sad thing in my opinion. If you don't mind my saying so, find something more productive to be angry about.

nicoleb
March 23rd, 2006, 02:41 PM
I'll make this short and sweet, because I recently typed something like this in a similar thread about a month back. I'm tired of people who think they can write all the rules for the anime/Japanese fandom and be condescending to those who don't know as much about it as they do.
Actually, I don't really know much Japanese, either. I just think that it's a bit stupid for people to be using Japanese words in English conversation. I just don't see the point in using words that everyone already knows. Especially words that have such clear translations. And I also think that if someone is going to write a Japanese flooded English article, they should at least get their information correct before attempting to use it.

No one seems to realize that the anime culture is not an imitation of Japanese culture, it is its own culture, and people having harmless fun with the bits of the language they pick up from the shows they watch is a facet of this; nothing to be seen as ignorant or backwards, and those who think having fluency in the language is a necessary asset for being allowed to count as an anime fan create a pedestal on which to lord themselves over others.
Okay, I'll just state what I really think here; either have it in English, or Japanese. One or the other. Like I said, I'm no genius in Japanese. But practically everyone who watches uncut Anime would know what those words are by now. I just don't see the harm in not using them.

If someone's ego depends on feeling that they're "better" or more "legitimate" anime fans than other people on the sold basis of having a command over the language, it's simply a sad thing in my opinion. If you don't mind my saying so, find something more productive to be angry about.
No, people using Japanese words in English conversation is the sad thing in my opinion. Knowing words such as 'gomen nasai,' 'daijoubu,' and so on is nothing special. Why? Because everyone already knows them. Having them thrown in our faces like this, I always feel that the person using them is trying to say; 'look at me! I know Japanese!,' when they clearly don't. Would it hurt to just use the English translations and stop putting themselves under the impression that they're Japanese experts? I don't think so.

Kurosaki
March 23rd, 2006, 07:35 PM
Actually, I don't really know much Japanese, either. I just think that it's a bit stupid for people to be using Japanese words in English conversation. I just don't see the point in using words that everyone already knows. Especially words that have such clear translations. And I also think that if someone is going to write a Japanese flooded English article, they should at least get their information correct before attempting to use it.


Okay, I'll just state what I really think here; either have it in English, or Japanese. One or the other. Like I said, I'm no genius in Japanese. But practically everyone who watches uncut Anime would know what those words are by now. I just don't see the harm in not using them.


No, people using Japanese words in English conversation is the sad thing in my opinion. Knowing words such as 'gomen nasai,' 'daijoubu,' and so on is nothing special. Why? Because everyone already knows them. Having them thrown in our faces like this, I always feel that the person using them is trying to say; 'look at me! I know Japanese!,' when they clearly don't. Would it hurt to just use the English translations and stop putting themselves under the impression that they're Japanese experts? I don't think so.
Does it hurt to let them use the odd japanese word? I don't think so. If everyone knows these words and their definitions, why can't they use them in english sentences?

I do agree that these people should at least know how the words are used. However, what's truly wrong with using the odd japanese word other then you believing it's "a sad thing." As far I can see, there is no harm in using them, other than the fact that you just don't like it personally.

Lily
March 23rd, 2006, 07:52 PM
I just don't see the harm in not using them.


I just don't see the harm in using them.

Proclaiming it 'stupid' is a blatant, yet indirect insult to people's own curiosity of the language itself. Of course, not all sites provide incorrect information. Is it so wrong to find the language that fascinating? Yes, we all know what 'arigatou' and 'daijoubu' means by now so it should be relatively easy for us to comprehend, but then again, we also know what 'hola' means. Omgz look im spanish. not. >>;

So in the end, I don't think it really matters...it's really up to you whether or not you use Japanese dialect. Quite often it is but a mere passing stage. ^^;

Neko
March 24th, 2006, 09:53 PM
I can see where you're getting at nicoleb >.>

My friend is like, upsessed with Anime and thats like, the biggest reason everybody wants to learn Japanese. I swear when I WAS actually her friend she shoved Japanese from her dumb Japanese book in my face every single freakin day >> It just annoyed the heck outta me. I mean, she didn't actually SAY it, but she was all like 'z0mg l0ok I'm Japanese @nD BeTTer Th@N U!!' God >.> I mean, why else would people use Japanese words in English sentences? To NOT showoff?? I think not >_____>

Crystal Clair
March 24th, 2006, 10:15 PM
Well I use Japanese words daily. The thing is, it's not because I want to look cool. I'm just so sick of using "cute", "beautiful", "love" and all those other things. I think of Japanese as expanding my vocabulary.

Cherrim
March 24th, 2006, 10:58 PM
You posted this, yet you use the word "kawaii" in your signature in the midst of an English sentence... o_O

Anyway, I find it a little annoying, but I can't complain because I was guilty of this myself a while ago--I'm still guilty, in fact, of putting the suffix "chan" at the end of some of my usernames (I commonly go by lightningchan when Lightning is taken). So in light of this, I don't really mind. This is and was my way of submersing myself in another culture and language. It's only natural to start integrating parts of another culture into your own when you're interested in it. People who use Japanese words are no different--they're just trying to learn and grasp new techniques and repetition is the easiest way to learn and memorize something. They're just applying their knowledge as best they can.

Also, not everyone has access to a reliable source of learning Japanese. Japanese isn't exactly a commonly taught language--it's not nearly as easy to find a Japanese class as it is to find a Spanish, German, or French class. It's quite uncommon. And those who do have access to classes may not be allowed to take them, don't have the funds necessary to take them, etc. So a website is the only real source of information they have. Sure, it'd be great if there were well-known sites that really went in-depth on the language in a way that's easy to grasp and expands beyond the words typical of "anime culture," but at least there's something.

As for inaccuracies...that's annoying too, but remember than fanlations are a labour of love. They translate things because they know the language and no one else is translating it. As a Japanese student myself who dabbles in translation, I know it's sometimes hard to get things right and most especially if you're still learning the language. (I've looked over things I translated in my first year of Japanese when I was still a know-it-all and a lot of it was pretty bad.) So honestly, cut them some slack. If it annoys you, turn the other cheek, because you're likely annoying them with your nitpicking. :\

And speaking of which, I really have to get to bed now because I have a test in Japanese tomorrow. XD

Chikara
March 25th, 2006, 02:22 AM
You posted this, yet you use the word "kawaii" in your signature in the midst of an English sentence... o_O
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I noticed that too... watch it Nicholeb, Lightning can catch things no one elce can! XD

I dont see a problem with using them...I use the word baka in almost every insult I mutter under my breath, and say most of it in english.....whatever...

MegaDitto
March 25th, 2006, 04:33 AM
I rembember posting in a thread like this a month ago. ;;

That is basically how people are, they speak it for their own different reasons.

And for your thread title..........I think wanna is spelled wrong?

Ryoutarou
March 25th, 2006, 05:05 AM
Yeah...if you're going to critisize people about using Japanese, at least get English down first.

I find it annoying, very annoying and I hate it when people do it. But I won't act condescending towards them about it(anymore...XD)if they want to use Japanese, then let them. It does help to memorize words by using them in place of their English counterparts...God knows that's how I had to learn "setsuna". But I never did that in public, so there was no one else to bother really. Usually the only times I'd do something about it is when people shove it down my face. Just ask them a random sentence in Japanese and it'll shut them up fast enough. Also, if you're going to nitpick at people using random words, then you'd have to nitpick the use of honorifics. Most if not all Japanese honorifics have an equivalent English counterpart.

So in the end, I find it annoying, but I used to do it a lot as well. Plus, it can be a pretty good way of using Japanese more commonly when you're still new at it.

Pinkhana
March 26th, 2006, 02:57 PM
Japanese people use english words in some Japanese songs. Does this actually mean that they are wananbe's or something? I don't really think so.

Neko
March 26th, 2006, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Pinkhana
Japanese people use english words in some Japanese songs. Does this actually mean that they are wananbe's or something? I don't really think so.
Reply With Quote

Yeah, but does that cahnge the fact that they ARE some people out there that ARE wannabes? I don't think so. =/

Kurosaki
March 26th, 2006, 03:42 PM
Yeah, but does that cahnge the fact that they ARE some people out there that ARE wannabes? I don't think so. =/
No, but it does show that the same concept is used everywhere. For example, a lot of the japanese songs I hear have at least one english word in them. Most of the songs wouldn't be anywhere as good, in my own opinion, if that word was replaced with japanese (nor would it sound right, XD).

And please, stop referring to/ generalising them as wannabes. It's really quite insulting, and I doubt the majority who do mix the odd word, do it because they want to be japanese or english, or whatever.

digi-kun
March 26th, 2006, 05:00 PM
But as for dubbed anime, i say just leave the japanese and honorifics out. Sure Japanese use english a lot, but still, a bunch of their words are adopted off our language, and thus becomes part of their culture. The only thing we take from them is food car names XD In dubs, it just sounds weird, suddenly hearing a Japanese word out in the middle of nowhere.

Fansubs, i don't mind too much about Japanese words being thrown in. Honorifics ya, i'm fine with that. Definitely like the additions of trademark phrases. Frankly, i don't see loose Japanese in most fansubs i see anyways.

I think what she meant to say was 'un.' Actually, I'm positive. Every place where 'un' should be, 'mm' is always written in its place. When intending to show off and act like you know more Japanese than you actually do, it's usually wise to get you information right. Else you just end up making a total idiot out of yourself.
Now as far as this goes, "un" is pretty much the Japanese onomatopoeia for 'mm'. Now 'un' would be the Japanese one. Seeing as you prefer 'un' there instead of 'mm' then it seems you're a little contradicting of yourself

Dakara, minna agree with atashi, ne? Don't anata think that this constant use of Japanese words in English things is Okkuu ka? It's still kawaii if minna doesn't agree with atashi. Demo, onegai think about it. Arigatou.
let's see...from what i remember...
So, you agree with me, right? Don't you think that this constant use of Japanese words in English things is (annoying?) It's still cute(WTF) if you doesn't(nice grammar) agree with me. But, please think about it.
Ok, so had to look up okkuu on google. If you were using the words that's used way too often i woulda used 'urusai' >>. Now what kawaii's for at the end i have NO idea. Oh, and from what i recall, 'watashi' is the dictionary form.

Cherrim
March 27th, 2006, 12:22 PM
let's see...from what i remember...
So, you agree with me, right? Don't you think that this constant use of Japanese words in English things is (annoying?) It's still cute(WTF) if you doesn't(nice grammar) agree with me. But, please think about it.
Ok, so had to look up okkuu on google. If you were using the words that's used way too often i woulda used 'urusai' >>. Now what kawaii's for at the end i have NO idea. Oh, and from what i recall, 'watashi' is the dictionary form.
Honestly, there are some people who use "kawaii" in sentences even if it makes no sense in the context, just because it's Japanese. oo; Same with chibi or baka.

As for watashi, atashi is correct too. If I remember correctly, a lot of girls use it as a less formal way of referring to themselves. So in this context, it would be acceptable.

yaminokaitou
March 27th, 2006, 03:47 PM
Dakara, minna agree with atashi, ne? Don't anata think that this constant use of Japanese words in English things is Okkuu ka? It's still kawaii if minna doesn't agree with atashi. Demo, onegai think about it. Arigatou.



Maybe I'm not just very experienced or something, but I've never heard any anime fan talk like that...O_o

I really don't see any harm in it, as long as people don't get annoying about it.
I get more irked when people use it incorrectly, such as spelling it wrong or phrasing things wrong. I can understand formalities a bit since most people aren't used to the different formalities in Japanese.
But if I saw something like what you posted above I'd be really irked. That's just annoying.

I will admit that sometimes I used phrases in my speech. I'm taking Japanese classes at school and sometimes it just slips out. Also, sometimes I feel like saying something that makes sense in Japanese but not in English, so I'll say it in Japanese. The way of thinking in English and Japanese is different, and sometimes it's hard to get the same meaning across in one of the languages.

Neko
March 27th, 2006, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Kurosaki
And please, stop referring to/ generalising them as wannabes. It's really quite insulting, and I doubt the majority who do mix the odd word, do it because they want to be japanese or english, or whatever.

You. No offence, but shut up =/ Obviously you have never met TRUE wannabes >=/ You know there are some out there. My so called 'friend' is one. I can always tell when she wants to be Japanese. She is FRIKIN FAILING SCHOOL CAUSE OF IT. Like, everytime we have a GERMAN assignment in school she writes the words in JAPANESE. Same goes with every other frikin class she has. But she doesn't care. All she cares about is 'Japanese Japanese Japanese' and thats not what I would call 'practicing the language just to get used to it' or w/e you said before. I call it annoying. Like, everytime we argue about something and I'm winning (which is like, always) she just pulls out RANDOM Japanese, puts them in 'sentence' form, and shoves the dang thing in my face!! So please, don't say I shouldn't call them 'wannabes' cause y'know, there are some out there..obviously you just never met any in real life =/

Originally posted by Lightning
Honestly, there are some people who use "kawaii" in sentences even if it makes no sense in the context, just because it's Japanese. oo; Same with chibi or baka.

Ah, and this one reminds me of another person who does the same thing. Was once my friend, not any more though. Just got too annoying...(more proof that there ARE wannabes out there)

Kurosaki
March 27th, 2006, 04:09 PM
You. No offence, but shut up =/ Obviously you have never met TRUE wannabes >=/ You know there are some out there. My so called 'friend' is one. I can always tell when she wants to be Japanese. She is FRIKIN FAILING SCHOOL CAUSE OF IT. Like, everytime we have a GERMAN assignment in school she writes the words in JAPANESE. Same goes with every other frikin class she has. But she doesn't care. All she cares about is 'Japanese Japanese Japanese' and thats not what I would call 'practicing the language just to get used to it' or w/e you said before. I call it annoying. Like, everytime we argue about something and I'm winning (which is like, always) she just pulls out RANDOM Japanese, puts them in 'sentence' form, and shoves the dang thing in my face!! So please, don't say I shouldn't call them 'wannabes' cause y'know, there are some out there..obviously you just never met any in real life =/

And if you had read my post completely, you could have saved typing all that. I told you to stop generalising them, implying that I believed there are some like that, but there are also some who are nothing like that, and just use the odd japanese word because they can.

Psycho
March 27th, 2006, 05:17 PM
Lightning has basically synopsized what I wished to say, thus I shan't recapitulate her already well-put message. However, since I am quite a kibitzer, I shall give my unsolicited opinion either way. =P

To castigate these alleged "wannabees" would be beneath me and pharisaical, due to the fact that I treated the Spanish language with aforesaid impulsiveness. I'd randomely scatter words - "hola", "amigo", "grande", "está", "sí", "el" - into my sentences; but it was done as a result of some sense of self-sufficiency. I veritibly took pride of my knowledge in the area, and just as a puerile child reacts to matriculating something new, I felt the need to promulgate my proficiency.

Though it may be caustic occasionally, I can understand how one would be piqued - particularly by the Japanese lifestyle; as I can acquiesce to the high level of diversion and idiosyncrasy possessed within such a eccentric culture. Just as anime, manga, and celebrity obsessions subsist, thus doeth culture obsessions.

I do, however, desire for those who adore the Japanese culture with such passion to aggrandize beyond the surface of such paltry, media-hackneyed depictions.

Conclusively, soreha shinkoku na mondai denai. (I'm probably inaccurate, but I do love to humor ♥)

Psycho

Neko
March 27th, 2006, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Kazuhito
And if you had read my post completely, you could have saved typing all that. I told you to stop generalising them, implying that I believed there are some like that, but there are also some who are nothing like that, and just use the odd japanese word because they can.

Pfft sure. You were generalizing WHO EXCATLY?? Sorry, but 'them' doesn't work for my microscopic brain - -;; lol Besides, if you meant people like my 'friend' then you are obviously wrong ;P Cause I KNOW FOR A FACT she is a wannabe.

Geometric-sama
March 27th, 2006, 09:21 PM
I hang out with a group of rabid otaku, and we'll sometimes throw random words and phrases into our talk. It's not "OMG-I'm-cool"-speak, it's just something we're used to. It helps define us as a community.

As for these people you deride because they want to know Japanese just because they're obsessed with anime, I think that's actually a good thing. No matter how someone is thrown into the learning of the language, whether it's because they study at school or want to learn in order to understand more anime, it's always good to learn languages.

Neko
March 28th, 2006, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by Jedi_Amara
As for these people you deride because they want to know Japanese just because they're obsessed with anime, I think that's actually a good thing. No matter how someone is thrown into the learning of the language, whether it's because they study at school or want to learn in order to understand more anime, it's always good to learn languages.

XD God who ever said 'obsessed' is a good thing? Obsessed is DEFINATLY not a good thing. If I were them, I'd just wait for college and take a Japanese class there instead of frikin begging my mother to buy my a 'z0mg L3@rN J@p@N3Ze' book every frikin minute just to shove it in my friend's face =/

I know it's good to learn languages, but you should really like *cough* take a class of it in college if your so 'obsesed' in it >.> Cause at this rate, my friend is getting NO WHERE in school. When you grow up with a phailing education and nowhere to go when not even the bad colleges accept you, then what will you do? Annoy MORE people?

Lily
March 28th, 2006, 03:25 PM
XD God who ever said 'obsessed' is a good thing? Obsessed is DEFINATLY not a good thing. If I were them, I'd just wait for college and take a Japanese class there instead of frikin begging my mother to buy my a 'z0mg L3@rN J@p@N3Ze' book every frikin minute just to shove it in my friend's face =/

Being compulsively preoccupied to a certain degree, I admit, might be a detrimental path; but obsession that aids one to be enthused in a particular field is more of a benefit rather than a negative aspect.

I know it's good to learn languages, but you should really like *cough* take a class of it in college if your so 'obsesed' in it >.> Cause at this rate, my friend is getting NO WHERE in school. When you grow up with a phailing education and nowhere to go when not even the bad colleges accept you, then what will you do? Annoy MORE people?

Who said foreign languages were equivalent to the crucial decision of passing or failing your education? o_o; Surely if people impose much enthusiasm, they'll ardently pursue the language further in the available classes. If not, the past avidity will assumably diverge into a minor attaction or fully succumbing to another one of those 'pass-and-go' situations.

digi-kun
March 31st, 2006, 03:34 PM
Honestly, there are some people who use "kawaii" in sentences even if it makes no sense in the context, just because it's Japanese. oo; Same with chibi or baka.

As for watashi, atashi is correct too. If I remember correctly, a lot of girls use it as a less formal way of referring to themselves. So in this context, it would be acceptable.
the atashi/watashi thing i know XD i was just figuring watashi was more used...ah meh XD there are still way too many words for "I" XD