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Drifblim
May 3rd, 2006, 05:39 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4943196.stm

BBC reported that the jury has called for Zacarias Moussaoui, a Moroccan-French terrorist that helped coordinate the 11 September 2001 attacks, to be sentenced to life in prison, defeating the prosecution's call for execution.

So now that the fate has been decided for a man that helped make the terrorist attack on New York a reality, what is the reaction in here? Is the sentence just, or do you say that he should have been executed? Discuss.

Naminé
May 3rd, 2006, 06:40 PM
Naminé thinks indifferently should Zacarias Moussaoui be executed or sentenced to spend his life in prison. As long as he is guaranteed from casuing any more harm to the society, the world will remain peaceful and that would be all that matters. If he is executed, then it is definite how he can never cause problems again. If he isn't, then there maybe a chance for his redemption and admit his wrong so he can be a new person born again, and perhaps his testimony may be powerful enough to persuade other law breakers to turn back from their evil ways. Yet, there is always the chance of this never happening too...

All in all, there are advantages and disadvantages to both execution and life sentence in prison. To Naminé, as stated already, as long as he can't cause any more harm, Naminé shall be satisfied~

Lily
May 3rd, 2006, 06:49 PM
Naminé thinks indifferently should Zacarias Moussaoui be executed or sentenced to spend his life in prison. As long as he is guaranteed from casuing any more harm to the society, the world will remain peaceful and that would be all that matters. If he is executed, then it is definite how he can never cause problems again. If he isn't, then there maybe a chance for his redemption and admit his wrong so he can be a new person born again, and perhaps his testimony may be powerful enough to persuade other law breakers to turn back from their evil ways. Yet, there is always the chance of this never happening too...

All in all, there are advantages and disadvantages to both execution and life sentence in prison. To Naminé, as stated already, as long as he can't cause any more harm, Naminé shall be satisfied~

Nami-chan must remember that the peace of the world is not justified through the banishment of one man, despite the fact he had supposedly caused everything.

Kairi's reaction, however, is similar to you- So as long as no further harm is done by the same person~

oni flygon
May 3rd, 2006, 07:10 PM
I agree with the sentence because if he were to be executed, then the extremists would consider him as a martyr and get their morale up. Otherwise, I believe that being alive with the thought of all of those people you could've killed and the thought of what you said, condeming society and all those other things that could have been easily taken away with death, looming in your head as you rot in your own permanent solitary confinement cell, with nothing to do and with no contact with society is better than death.

Shikon no Tama
May 3rd, 2006, 07:18 PM
I believe having life in prison is much more worse than execution. At least if someone has life in prison, they would learn from their mistakes and suffer more for their crimes. From what I hear, prison is quite horrible, and having to spend your whole life in prison does sound like a very good punishment. He wouldn't be able to cause anymore harm to innocent people.
Execution is more or less better than prison. It's an electric chair, and death comes quite quick with it. So by dying from execution, one would not learn from their crimes or repent for them. It would be sort of like saying that one can go to death without true punishment. And life in prison is quite a long time to feel sorry for your crimes, rather than dying quickly by execution.

Sean Fury
May 3rd, 2006, 07:19 PM
I believe having life in prison is much more worse than execution. At least if someone has life in prison, they would learn from their mistakes and suffer more for their crimes. From what I hear, prison is quite horrible, and having to spend your whole life in prison does sound like a very good punishment. He wouldn't be able to cause anymore harm to innocent people.
Execution is more or less better than prison. It's an electric chair, and death comes quite quick with it. So by dying from execution, one would not learn from their crimes or repent for them. It would be sort of like saying that one can go to death without true punishment. And life in prison is quite a long time to feel sorry for your crimes, rather than dying quickly by execution.
Quoted for truth and the freedom of lazyness of explaining it myself.

Naminé
May 3rd, 2006, 07:39 PM
To Naminé, it is an uncontrollable unknown to say that death is easier than a life of punishment in the prison. Though in theory, the guilty of being a murderer against the mass maybe painful, it is questionable if Zacarias Moussaoui is feeling guilty about his crimes at all. If he is, then most likely redemption for his sins is possible, and perhaps freedom will be at his end of the tunnel when he reaches an old age. At least, that way in Naminé's beliefs, he can see the light once again and walk the world outside of his cell once before he dies. That maybe an endless satisfaction for someone who is in prison for years and years.

Yet, what if Zacarias Moussaoui does not feel guilty about his crime and remains firm in his radical beliefs? Then, perhaps death is more painful for him than to live in the cell, as he will only see the cell as a temporate place for confinement until something or someone lets him out to cause harm to the world again.

Therefore, it isn't a question regarding which way is perhaps "more painful" for him as that is beyond what any mortal can control. The question is which method will change the world to be a safer place. Like what Mr. Akinari said, since his death may allow extremists to see him as a matyr and therefore is motivated for further terrorist attacks, then it is safer for the world if he lives. The mercy shown by giving him life may also lower the terrorists' morale further, as now they may not lay their life down for their mission with as much dedication as before.

Yes, Naminé shall switch her posting color from deep sky blue to royal blue. It seems equally pleasing but this new color is much easier to read than the previous.

Ryoutarou
May 3rd, 2006, 07:56 PM
I agree with the sentence, mainly for the same reasons that Niko does. If he was executed, he'd be seen as a martyr by thousands of other extremest. Death would have also been "the easy way out" for him. Everything I've read about him says that he feels no remorse about what he did. Even the link quoted in the first post says that he wishes it could be September 11th every day. If he's left in a cell for the rest of his life, he'll have nothing but his thoughts. After a few years in such a state, I would say something like suicide isn't outside the realm of possibility though.

Loyal Arcanine
May 4th, 2006, 05:31 AM
Well, over here we don't have a death sentence so this is basically what I'd think is just for him. There is no chance that he will be released before the sentence has been served because of good behaviour or whatever, so there's no chance that he'll commit a crime again. Well, unless he escapes I guess. =P

Drifblim
May 4th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Seeing as there's talk of him getting solitary confinement for a year, I'll be surprised if he doesn't drown in his words within four months. Even then, when he gets out of that stage other prisoners may kill him within.

Toothache
May 5th, 2006, 02:11 AM
Good, they're not executing him.

First, I disagree with the death penalty. It's somewhat ironic that not only the arguably greatest civilisation on Earth, as well as one that claims to be Christian, allows state executions. What happened to 'Thou shalt not kill'?

Two, I don't think Moussaori knew enough about the 9/11 plot, or if he did he wasn't completely in the loop, as the things he said didn't completely match the true events. So, I believe the sentence was the right one, and not just because of my beliefs on execution.

Just my coupla coins.

Drifblim
May 5th, 2006, 02:24 AM
Well, I guess they go by the statement in Exodus that anyone killing on purpose should be put to death themselves. Meh.

Toothache
May 5th, 2006, 02:27 AM
Like that would ever happen.

This is why I stopped following Christianity, so many things like that, so many hypocricies. Actually, it's the same of most organised religions, so I follow a disorganised one.

mew42003
May 5th, 2006, 04:22 PM
Life in Prison is worse than being executed. Because you have to suffer in prison for the rest of your life.

Chairman Kaga
May 5th, 2006, 06:19 PM
Well, I guess they go by the statement in Exodus that anyone killing on purpose should be put to death themselves. Meh.

Actually, the oldest forms of Judaic law no longer apply to Christianity; aside from the fundamentals, the New Testament is a new set of instructions.

Speaking of said instructions, they are indeed based on the highest principles of mercy and forgiveness. This, however, is powerless in the face of the international system of separation of church and state, as governments, doing their best to be objective, base punishments for crimes on the severity of the crime.

This is not to say, however, that the choice of what is defined as crime is equally as objective. Most countries that value order enough to implement a justice system tend to base what is considered a punishable offense or not foremost on what is considered iniquitous in the largest indigenous religion, as, whatever one's personal view on religion is, it is obvious that it is useful for establishing social norms and mores and keeping order. And, from this, the basis for all laws springs, more or less; as, with any law, it is rooted in criminalizing the violation of any sense of fairness in any element of society, and, truth be told, fairness only has concrete definition in the various religions.

This being said, it is more than a bit presumptuous to label a certain religious group hypocritical for the existence of the death penalty in a country. As was previously mentioned, governments set these rules, and, as we were discussing America in particular, it is impossible for one group to create all the rules for the world's most heterogeneous country. As much as some of us may detest one law (or lack thereof) or another, most nations are at the point where it is almost impossible to pass or repeal laws. I admit to there being laws that I believe to be immoral, and I may feel fervently enough regarding certain issues to actively work for change, but so many disagreements exist between the innumerably various factions of a democratically-elected government that I do not expect to ever see myself getting my way.

Lack of democracy; in other words, suppression of diverse thought, tends to be the most effective modern way to maintain order, unfortuantely; unlike many religious societies of old where order was achieved through mutual respect, order now comes through fear and power. Islamic republics and the implementation of Sharia law are an interesting and pertinent example; it is one of the few cases where a group has seized and manipulated a religion to create a police state with great success, so much so that the governments have succeeded in indoctrinating the people with their definition of justice, whereas most states ruled in a dictatorial/oligarchic fashion have power over the action of the people but cannot seize the mind.

In this victory over action and mind, terrorism arises, with the manipulated version of Islam becoming the real version, and one that carries the justice of oppressive government with it. And, as the only true way for a government to prove their might is to threaten death, death is the main weapon of the terrorist.

However, in freer societies, death is always taught to be a last resort technique, despite the reason being fundamentally the same; always either in the belief that it is justice or merely to make an example to future criminals. The fact is, man passing judgement on man by means of execution has existed as long as man has exacted punishment. This is most certainly antithetical to some religions and the generic principles of modern society, but, the problem arises when death as punishment is acceptable as religious doctrine in some faiths (again, Islam automatically comes to mind) and one system of justice itself becomes a punishable injustice in another justice system.

In general, regarding Christianity, the death penalty has existed in such societies out of no better reason than men who cannot hold themselves to a certain standard believing that justice is better served when gratification is more instant; out of something primal, Man's Thanatos, as Siegmund Freud called it (though this man should rarely be trusted in the field of human nature, psychology, and sociology.) It is a need to kill, a need to witness and be a party to death that supercedes the religious principles of many; and, getting back to the hypocrisy issue, I do not see it as being able to be labled as such because of the centuries and centuries of misinformation passed down in various societies regarding the details of their own morals; simply put, it is not common knowledge that Christianity forbids execution.

Zacarias Moussaoui tempts even the most principled of us, though; one can puzzle over such issues that, if given life instead of death, he could potentially be a danger to other inmates; prison is a very fertile breeding ground for radical Islam, and it makes one question whether Moussaoui would be more of a danger alive than dead. (Though, upon hearing that he would be guaranteed lifelong solitary confinement, this fear is assuaged.) Others may wonder if life in the place of death would never give Moussaoui the opportunity to have his faith in radical Islam tested to its limits by mortal terror, but, on closer examination, death is obviously nothing more than martyrdom for him.

So what do we do in a case where death obviously seems so deserved? In this case, since Moussaoui wins in his mind no matter what the outcome, as either way he feels validated by punishment at the hands of people he is trying to bring to his own personal justice, it would be pointless to reciprocate the base philosophy of the terrorist against him. Although the taking of the moral high ground in this case would be largely symbolic, as it has no impact whatsoever on our war on terror, it is pointless to kill someone for violating our laws when he had desired to do the exact same thing. We definitely made the right choice this time.

Naminé
May 6th, 2006, 01:48 AM
What Naminé decides to see,
it is what Naminé decides to believe.
What Mr. Toothache believes,
only it is all that he can see...

And so, Naminé shall steer the thread back to the original topic before this crashes, or perhaps the pun have killed all the reviewers of this thread already.


Investigation blocked in Washington

Moussaoui was detained by the Immigration and Naturalization Service on charges of violating the terms of his visa. Local FBI investigators in Minneapolis immediately viewed Moussaoui as a terrorist suspect and sought authorization for a special counterintelligence surveillance warrant to search the hard drive of his home computer. This was rejected by higher-level officials in Washington, who claimed there was insufficient evidence to meet the legal requirements for the warrant.

FBI agents tracked Moussaoui’s movements to the Airman Flight School in Norman, Oklahoma, where he logged 57 hours of flight time earlier in 2001 but was never allowed to fly on his own because of his poor skills. This alone should have set off alarm bells, since a confessed Al Qaeda operative, Abdul Hakim Murad, had trained at the same school, as part of preparations for a suicide hijack attack on CIA headquarters. Murad testified about these plans in the 1996 trial of Ramzi Ahmed Yusef, the principal organizer of the 1993 World Trade Center car-bombing.

Several of the September 11 hijackers had either enrolled in or visited the Oklahoma flight school, as a more thorough investigation determined in the aftermath of the suicide hijackings.

On August 26, FBI headquarters was notified by French intelligence that Moussaoui had ties to the Al Qaeda organization and Osama bin Laden. Even this report did not spur the agency to action. A special counterterrorism panel of the FBI and CIA reviewed the information against him, but concluded there was insufficient evidence that he represented any threat, despite his refusal to answer questions and the French allegations. Moussaoui was not even transferred from INS detention to FBI custody until after September 11.

The French warning arrived on the day after the first two suicide hijackers purchased their one-way, first class tickets for flights on September 11. More tickets were purchased on August 26, 27, 28 and 29, while the FBI was refusing to pursue a more intensive investigation into Moussaoui or search his computer.

The New York Times commented December 22 that the Moussaoui case “raised new questions about why the Federal Bureau of Investigation and other agencies did not prevent the hijackings.”

FBI officials responded indirectly to this criticism, flatly denying the account of the warning given by the flight school personnel. “The notion of flying a plane into a building or using it as a bomb never came up,” one senior official to the Washington Post January 2. “It was a straight hijacking scenario that they were worried about.”

This issue is of critical importance, and the flight school instructor, unlike the FBI, has absolutely no reason to lie. In the wake of September 11, FBI Director Robert Mueller flatly declared that the FBI had no indication that terrorists were seeking to use hijacked airliners as flying bombs. His assurances were accepted uncritically by the American media. The account given by the flight school shows that these assurances were lies.

It always interests Naminé regarding what news reporters can find to make a terrible event sound even worse than before after it had happened already. If the media is slightly faster with these kinds of information, why surely they will be indeed, "more competent than the FBI" itself, Naminé says~

Ah, it has been a long day for Naminé already, and so she must once again embark off for her fruitless search for a dream. And so, PC, good day and good night~