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Master of all charizards
May 29th, 2006, 11:31 AM
Ill say kyogre!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Water beats ground.

Gentleman J
May 29th, 2006, 12:50 PM
I heard when the original Sapphire in Japan came out they had to take it back and tweak it because he was too powerful. Personally I like the way it looks.

Chesters_love
May 29th, 2006, 12:53 PM
yeah,but what about groudons solarbeam...

Axєl
May 29th, 2006, 01:57 PM
I think Kyogre would win, just because Groudon would be weakend against it...
Fire/Ground < Water

Lord Mike
May 29th, 2006, 02:04 PM
It may depend who's effect activates last. For example, Kyogre comes outand starts Drizzle, and Groudon comes out and starts Drought. Kyogre would have to have Ice beam.

Furea-chan
May 29th, 2006, 02:26 PM
It's like an even battle,but you know that even though I love Groudon, Kyogre kind of has an advandage, but hey who knows?

JakeDaRappa
May 30th, 2006, 03:15 AM
Ill say kyogre!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Water beats ground.
I agree! The weeknesses and resistences would be in Kyogre's favore.

Demonta
May 30th, 2006, 03:17 AM
Kyogre, it should be that way, i find this unfair as I find Groundon cooler looking... but I bought sapphire (still regrets it)

miyo
June 17th, 2006, 06:39 AM
Kyogre has a great advantage over groudon... but you never know what surprising attacks groudon has in stored under its sleeve. Other than the 'elementally weak' factor, I think they both stand equal chances.

And I'd agree with YoMama.. about the part where whoever was activated last. ^^

Blaze Dragon
June 17th, 2006, 09:23 AM
Who attack first, wins. Groudon´s Solarbeam beats Kyogre while Kyogre´s Water Spout can kill Groudon. But I prefer Groudon

enyce
June 17th, 2006, 09:37 AM
If Kyogre is bought out last and surf groudon dies

If Groudon is out last and Solarbeams Kyogre dies

Hayate
June 17th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Groudon is the best pokemon in game, even though Kyogre looks to be stronger. Groudon can summon strond sunshine, so solarbeam don't need charge time. After all Kyogre is a water type, so weak vs. grass. But however Kyogre can use surf as well, but since Groudon is surrounded by sun, water attacks will do half effect....i'll say groudon is better.

Aegis
June 17th, 2006, 06:41 PM
I think Kyogre would win, just because of the type advantage, unless Groudon was higher level, then it might be different

Drifblim
June 17th, 2006, 06:50 PM
They've got their own strengths and counters....Kyogre's Special abilities and HP are higher in proportion to its other stats, and for Groudon Attack, Defense, and Speed tend to be the highest areas. Depending on the order in which you put them, either one could win; put a Groudon out to face a Kyogre, Drought takes effect over Drzzle and it should do a good bit of damage if it doesn't knock it out in one hit, even without Swords Dance or Bulk Up on the first turn under Drought; but put Kyogre out later instead, Groudon's screwed.

sonicthechao
June 17th, 2006, 06:54 PM
[FONT="Arial"]Groudon looks stronger, but I don't know much about it since I have Sapphire:P . Kyogre has some pretty strong attacks of its own.

The Fallen
June 17th, 2006, 07:14 PM
I like Groudon better. His Drought/Solarbeam combo has always beat Kyogre for me when I've battled him.

ArKiVe
June 17th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Real tough decision there. I think they are both cool, but I remember my Kyogre "Chell" being part of my top 6 so I'd have to go with Kyogre.

The Songbird
June 17th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Based on types and stats, and all that stuff (XD), they're about equal.

But, being the MAGMA-Fied one, I choose Groudon!

They both look cool too, but Groudon looks just a bit cooler than Kyogre, in my opinion. But that's just me.

Also, if you look at their Shiny versions, Shiny Kyogre turns pinkish. That doesn't fit its type so well. Groudon turns a gold-ish color, which still fits Ground-type fairly well.

~Rene~
June 17th, 2006, 10:47 PM
I liked Kyogre better. Because it's also my favourite legendary Pokemon.

Sneas
June 18th, 2006, 07:40 AM
Kyogre would definitely win. It has a major type advantage, so it would most likely decimate Groudon.

Kendoman
June 19th, 2006, 08:37 AM
Defenitely Groudon. Whenever I battle my friend who has ruby, he owns my evenly leveled Kyogre (I have no idea how) I wish I had it...

Rioku_Zanketa
June 19th, 2006, 08:56 AM
they are evenly matched....Groudon may be ground/fire,but those abilities are so strong,it droughts the water the Kyogre shoots at him....that's the way it its...

DragonMaster Azyo
June 19th, 2006, 09:28 AM
I'm ageeing with everyone who says they are equal,because well...they are. Thats why there is never a victor when it comes down to a one on one match with Kyogre and Groudon. In the game you guys can overpower the other with level,sp. attack strength and other factors, but if Groudon and Kyogre where to truly fight like how they used to in their history, no one would win.There would be so much destruction but no wavering sides, thats why Rayquaza always had to step in with each fight. So obviously they are both equally matched.

Jorah
June 19th, 2006, 12:02 PM
It may depend who's effect activates last. For example, Kyogre comes outand starts Drizzle, and Groudon comes out and starts Drought. Kyogre would have to have Ice beam.

I agree, it completly depends on whose effect is last, and whoever is last will probably be the winner

Cosmic
June 20th, 2006, 12:52 AM
It all depends really, but even so kyogre has the upper-hand. Still groudon looks cooler ^_^

kiarou
June 20th, 2006, 10:28 AM
groundon has that solarbeam, and solarbeam vs water = water got owned, but kryogres water spout does a crap load of damage and his thunder never misses, so it could go both ways, but id put my money on kryogre. namely beacuz when ever i fight a groundon i can usually take it out in 3-5 turns, but if its a kryogre, it can rape my whole team

Natsuki
June 20th, 2006, 10:48 AM
I like them both equally, to tell you the truth. XD; I adore Water Pokemon, so Kyogre gets my vote simply on that aspect. But Groudon reminds me so much of my pet lizard who I loved very dearly, so of course I have a soft spot for Groudon. <33~

And they both seem equally powerful to me, so I like them both the same. :3

~Kelsey

MasterWGS
June 20th, 2006, 12:12 PM
Kyogre owns Groudon a billion to one. Groudon may have Solar Beam, but his Sp. Attack is so weak, and it's not STABed, making it even weaker. Plus, he's a ground type, so a natural weakness to water, which just happens to be Kyogre's type.

Green Bulbasaur
June 24th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Groudon will win in a heartbeat. Why?

Well, Groudon has the ability for the arena to be Sunny no matter what, so he can blast Solarbeam after Solarbeam without having to worry about charging. Plus, he has a higher defense then Kyogre.

miyo
June 30th, 2006, 06:10 AM
Groudon will win in a heartbeat. Why?

Well, Groudon has the ability for the arena to be Sunny no matter what, so he can blast Solarbeam after Solarbeam without having to worry about charging. Plus, he has a higher defense then Kyogre.

did you read what Grant said? I totally agree with him.. Groudon may have the Solarbeam, but its Special Atk is pretty weak.. and also about the part where Groudon doesn't get the STAB by using solarbeam.. and plus, the ground type that Groudon is makes is at a highly disadvantageous position when up against Kyogre o.O

Smarties-chan
June 30th, 2006, 06:29 AM
Well, Groudon has the ability for the arena to be Sunny no matter what, so he can blast Solarbeam after Solarbeam without having to worry about charging. Plus, he has a higher defense then Kyogre.
Uh... Groudon's Sp.Atk sucks, while Kyogre has a decent Sp.Defense. And what if Kyogre gets in play after Groudon? That way Kyogre will gain the upper hand, because its Drizzle ability will activate after Groudon's Drought. Not to mention Kyogre would pwn Groudon with Ice Beam anyway.

kitsune_boy389
July 2nd, 2006, 03:24 AM
Kyogre wins hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DarkGreg
July 2nd, 2006, 03:31 AM
I'd say equal, it depends on who gets the first turn cause they could both kill each other in one shot

Lathspell
July 2nd, 2006, 04:33 AM
IMO it doesn't matter who beats who. It's natural that water beats ground, but that's not really the point. It's who's better overall, VS other pokemon too. I like Groundon more, he looks better and Earthquake is my favourite move. Also, put a Vileplume or a Exeggutor with Groundon and he owns :D

miyo
July 2nd, 2006, 07:04 PM
Uh... Groudon's Sp.Atk sucks, while Kyogre has a decent Sp.Defense. And what if Kyogre gets in play after Groudon? That way Kyogre will gain the upper hand, because its Drizzle ability will activate after Groudon's Drought. Not to mention Kyogre would pwn Groudon with Ice Beam anyway.

Not only Ice Beam, let's not forget Kyogre's a water type too. One blast of its Water Spout and Groudon's gone.. the attack damage is about 1.5 x 1.5 of the 150 damage water spout inflicts (I think). Either way, Drizzle + STAB makes Kyogre invincible against Groudon. Even if Groudon has Solarbeam, there's no STAB, and may not necessarily gurantee that Groudon can kill off Kyogre with one attack.

Also, Groudon only has Solarbeam that can possibly kill Kyogre, whereas Kyogre has most of its attack strong against the ground-type legendary.. (ice beam, water spout, surf..... etc)

Red1530
July 2nd, 2006, 07:13 PM
It depends on the speed of the Pokemon if Kyogre attacks last Kyogre will win. However if Groudon attacks last Groudon will win.

Metaforte
July 2nd, 2006, 10:25 PM
In a battle, there's a good chance that Kyogre would win, but Grodon is a better pokemon overall with it's insane attack. Swords Dance/Earthquake

Smarties-chan
July 2nd, 2006, 11:28 PM
Not only Ice Beam, let's not forget Kyogre's a water type too. One blast of its Water Spout and Groudon's gone.. the attack damage is about 1.5 x 1.5 of the 150 damage water spout inflicts (I think). Either way, Drizzle + STAB makes Kyogre invincible against Groudon. Even if Groudon has Solarbeam, there's no STAB, and may not necessarily gurantee that Groudon can kill off Kyogre with one attack.

Also, Groudon only has Solarbeam that can possibly kill Kyogre, whereas Kyogre has most of its attack strong against the ground-type legendary.. (ice beam, water spout, surf..... etc)
It won't necessarily OHKO Groudon if Groudon comes into play second, because that way Groudon's Drought will be activated and Kyogre will lose its STAB bonus. And if Groudon manages to outspeed Kyogre and hits it with a STABed Earthquake when Kyogre is about to use Water spout, it's bye bye Kyogre. Besides, Water Spout sucks anyway. =\

As for the Groudon pwning Kyogre with Solarbeam, I LOL at that. Groudon's Sp.Atk sucks, making Earthquake more effective against Kyogre. Not only is Kyogre's base Sp.Defense 60 better than its defense but Groudon has a 50 better base Attack. Kyogre and Groudon also have the same base Speed stat, which means it's possible for Groudon to outspeed Kyogre.

Levski
July 3rd, 2006, 02:25 AM
Groudon would win. If it is sent out second, Kyogre has no chance, because its Surf will be cut in half and Thunder doesn't effect Groudon. The standard one has Surf, Thunder, Calm Mind, Rest with Chesto Berry, but if it has Ice Beam over Rest there will still be a threat for Groudon.
Groudon, with a STABed Earthquake and its godly Attack will seriosly damage Kyogre. On the first turn, if it Sword Dances and Kyogre doesn't KO it = dead Kyogre.
Also, special Groudon is lol, simply because a Modest Groudon with EVs in SAtk will probably have a higher Atk stat. Solarbeam feeds off of Groudon's SAtk and goes against Kyogre's SDef, which is inevitably higher than it's Def.

As Shakespeare said,
Thy Groudon hath thy Kyogre pwneth.
xD

Gentleman J
July 3rd, 2006, 02:45 AM
Kyogre doesn't have to so much as SPLASH to pone Groudon all over the floor.

I was on a mission to raise them both to 100 with max ideal EV's *snap* if only I had finished. I promise to finish before Pkmn Revolution (or whatever)

miyo
July 4th, 2006, 03:55 AM
Groudon's Drought will be activated and Kyogre will lose its STAB bonus.

It doesn't lose its STAB, does it? =\ the attack only falls till only x1.5.. It doesn't lose its STAB because Kyogre is still a water type, and a drought doesn't change Kyogre to become a grass or flying type.

so it's like:
with drizzle, attack is x1.5 x 1.5
without drizzle, attack is x1.5

Neo Android
July 4th, 2006, 04:33 AM
Personal Choice Would Be Kyogre, Theres Something About him That Just Beats Groudon To The Ground (See The Pun XD). But In Reality I Have Never Really Seen 2 Legendary Pokemon With Such An Even Attack List. They Both Could KO Eachother

hamir
July 4th, 2006, 05:13 AM
I'll say Kyogre
Kyogre beats Groudon, you all know that. for those who say Groudon will beat kyogre are just are having sympathy for Groudon.

Rioku_Zanketa
July 4th, 2006, 09:50 AM
so like,...are you guys talking about in-game fights,or as if they were real?!

Neo Umbreon
July 4th, 2006, 10:36 AM
Like other people said, it depends who gets out first and I think it also has to do with speed too.

Skitty Miaow
July 4th, 2006, 02:41 PM
Say both pokemon were at an even level, and Groudon DID know solarbeam.. I think Groudon would have a good chance of winning. I know the type disadvantage would effect the outcome of the battle.. But in my own experience, my Groudon seems stronger than my Kyogre. But if I put them against each other.. I'd say it's undecided until someone puts them against each other =)=)

That made no sense! :)

Team-Aqua
July 5th, 2006, 07:20 AM
What, are we all crazy? Back to basics people! Kyogre would win, he's a water type! PLus, on a more technical side, Kyogre's Special Attack stats are higher than Groudon's! Team Aqua Rules!

Tw1tch
July 5th, 2006, 08:04 AM
In a battle, Kyogre would win. Otherwise, Groudon is the better Pokemon. Simple as that.

MUSION
July 5th, 2006, 01:29 PM
Kyogre would win, elemental advantage obviously. Plus I think Kyogre is the better of the two.

pokemaster7
July 8th, 2006, 10:28 AM
i choose kyogre, but heres a comparison MX=maxed out(perfect)( groundons best move is eruption(fire),kyogre's is waterspout(water) they are kinduf the same besides name and type)

---------------------- good stats------- bad stats----------best move bones
Kyogre: sp.atk (MX),speed,----atk hp, def, sp.def ---x2.25 (ability and type)

Groundon: ATK(MX) besides hp the rest------hp-------------------------x1.5 (ability alone)
re just good(not great)

Crystal ALpha-Star+
July 8th, 2006, 10:52 AM
Well in a battle if you have groudon on the that knows thunder and your opponent switchs to kyorge,providing Groudon has good EV's he would due to drizzle giving thunder 100% accurecy(sorry for spellin)

Green Bulbasaur
July 8th, 2006, 01:20 PM
As for the Groudon pwning Kyogre with Solarbeam, I LOL at that. Groudon's Sp.Atk sucks, making Earthquake more effective against Kyogre. Not only is Kyogre's base Sp.Defense 60 better than its defense but Groudon has a 50 better base Attack. Kyogre and Groudon also have the same base Speed stat, which means it's possible for Groudon to outspeed Kyogre.

Groudon's Sp. Atk is higher then Kyogre's Sp. Def. Plus, if Groudon knows Thunderbolt on top of it all, it's over for Kyogre. Plain and simple.

Lukynumbr4
July 9th, 2006, 07:55 PM
I don't really like either of them (despite how powerful they are).... I actually traded my groudon for my brothers Latias. He got Groudon and Kyogre, I got Latios and Latias.

Vampire://Krimm
July 9th, 2006, 07:58 PM
Eh, I dont like either of them. but I'd have to say Groudon

Forever
July 10th, 2006, 05:55 PM
*·-:¦:-·:*'''''*:·-:¦*·-:¦:-·:*'''''*:·-: ¦
Kyogre's awesome water attacks rox. But Groundon won the elite four by itself for me.. So did Kyogre..this is a hard desicion so Kyogre!
hhsimpsonqueen

miyo
July 15th, 2006, 06:27 PM
actually, I've seen several posts about Groudon winning Kyogre because of it being able to learn Solarbeam or a Thunderbolt in the #52 post of this thread. But so what?? Groudon can learn attacks to counter Kyogre, but I want to stress that Kyogre by itself is already elementally stronger than Groudon.. Kyogre doesn't need to deliberately learn attacks of another type to counter Groudon.

Are you guys saying that a Venusaur is stronger than a Charizard if Venusaur can learn water attacks? hmmms.

So my point is, you can't claim that Groudon would win, just because it can learn Solarbeam or Thunderbolt or any other attacks that could counter Kyogre. Kyogre's attacks can counter very well against Groudon as well.. ><;;

QlLA\/A
July 24th, 2006, 12:29 AM
yea i think Kyogre would definaty win water waste fire/ground and kyogre has stronger moves