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miyo
June 20th, 2006, 05:06 AM
Actually, I was just wondering, what do they mean when they say legendary? I mean, my idea of a legendary pokemon is something that is truly rare and can't be found anywhere... its location is vague and almost can't be found.

If so, what about Moltres/Articuno/Zapdos? can they be considered legendary? because in movie 2, their locations are really known.. the people on shamouti island really knows that moltres resides on fire island, zapdos in lightning island, and articuno on ice island. In my opinion, truly legendary pokemon are really those like Ho-oh, which appears really rarely. I think moltres/articuno/zapdos are considered rare pokemon more than legendary.

Anyone has any comments? what do you think about this 'theory'?

Astinus
June 20th, 2006, 05:29 AM
Legendary really just means that there is some sort of story behind the Pokémon. It also means that they are rare, which means that even if Rattata has some story behind it, it's not legendary.

For Shamouti Island, the people knew according to legend. It's not like the bird trio would come to the main island just to...party?

The Latis are legendary, due to the fact that they have the history behind them. Yet, you see them flying around town, albeit invisible. << And Bianca and Lorenzo know about them.

Really, it's just because of the history behind them. You wouldn't count Mewtwo in that sense, as no one knows about it. Except for Satoshi-tachi, but they aren't talking.

For the games, any creature that is seen only once, can't breed and has uber stats.

Hope that helps. :/

miyo
June 20th, 2006, 05:50 AM
hmm...I guess I more or less understood.. thanks ya ;)

kiarou
June 20th, 2006, 10:09 AM
I had always thought ledgendary pokemon to be pokemon that there were just one type of, like theres only one ho-oh in the world of pokemon just as theres only one entei or raikou,but then again...who knows

miyo
June 20th, 2006, 06:28 PM
hahas... that was what that provoked me to start this thread.. it was the difference between the usual legendaries like the birds and the rocks, and ho-oh... I somehow feel that they were a lil' different.. hence this thread XD

Krafty Quill
June 21st, 2006, 01:52 PM
Yeah, me too. I always thought that apart from their unique stories legendary Pokémon were rare because there were only one of each of them.

Rioku_Zanketa
June 21st, 2006, 02:20 PM
I thought solely cuz of the fact that there's one of them.....in other words,....they are 99.99% on the virge of extincton.....and Ash and Brock won't talk about Mewtwo,cuz they lost memory(I'm assuming you guys know that already)........I feel like I left out something...do I make sense to you guys?....

miyo
June 21st, 2006, 08:26 PM
I thought solely cuz of the fact that there's one of them.....in other words,....they are 99.99% on the virge of extincton.....and Ash and Brock won't talk about Mewtwo,cuz they lost memory(I'm assuming you guys know that already)........I feel like I left out something...do I make sense to you guys?....

They didn't lose their memories anymore if you've watched Mewtwo Returns.. it's a part 2 to Mewtwo Strikes Back.. And I also liked your point on the 99.99% on the verge of extinction.. never even thought about the extinction issue before.. interesting :P

LavenderCase
June 23rd, 2006, 08:11 PM
I guess they can be compared to this world's Phoenix, Lochness Monster, Bigfoot, and those other mysterious animals, not much is really known except the latter, they're real, sometimes their existence is determined by myth, or they're one of a kind.

miyo
June 23rd, 2006, 08:22 PM
I guess they can be compared to this world's Phoenix, Lochness Monster, Bigfoot, and those other mysterious animals, not much is really known except the latter, they're real, sometimes their existence is determined by myth, or they're one of a kind.


but these monsters were only being speculated because people claimed to have seen them.. so, there is a possibility that these creatures really existed.

Sighs, but for pokemon, sadly, it was really created by human and mankind alone. So it's sad, because 'pokemon' is unlikely to have existed.. :( Hmm, but perhaps the creator created pokemon because he really saw one and was inspired to start pokemon? LOL.

Okay, I think I'm getting a lil' out of topic here :P

Volta.
June 23rd, 2006, 11:13 PM
I think legendaries are worshipped* pokemon and/or have exceptional qualities.

@miyo and Rioku Zanketa: Lengendaries arent 99.99% extinct. Well at least Latias isnt.(:P) Her Emerald Pokedex says they gather in herds of several members.

@miyo (again): Well, just think to yourself, with the quintillions of planets out there, there's bound to be one with pokemon :D

*
Legendary birds: Beasts of Fire, Ice, Lightning, and water
Latis: Protectors of Altomare
Lucario: Savior of the Tree of Origins alongside Aaron

Kraka-chan
June 24th, 2006, 11:15 AM
Hmm... Legendary Pokemon. If you say that they have a certain story behind them, well then, any ordinary Pokemon can be legendary (say like "the Ratata who nicked the Picknickers food and never got caught" kind of thing).

I consider these Pokemon to be Mythical rather than Legendary. Mainly because not a lot of people see them, and most of the battles these Pokemon fought were titanic (the Groudon/Kyogre Battle for instance) and it had the fate of the world in the balance.

Call them Legendary if you want, I don't mind. I just thought they ought to be called something better.

Rioku_Zanketa
June 24th, 2006, 11:21 AM
I think legendaries are worshipped* pokemon and/or have exceptional qualities.

@miyo and Rioku Zanketa: Lengendaries arent 99.99% extinct. Well at least Latias isnt.(:P) Her Emerald Pokedex says they gather in herds of several members.

@miyo (again): Well, just think to yourself, with the quintillions of planets out there, there's bound to be one with pokemon :D

*
Legendary birds: Beasts of Fire, Ice, Lightning, and water
Latis: Protectors of Altomare
Lucario: Savior of the Tree of Origins alongside Aaron
Lugia is/supposed to be psichic,just so you know...so who's the water bird?....and did they ever officially say Latias is ledgendary?.....I don't remember ever hearing that...and based upon the world,a heard of latias only,means that it's just a tad bit higher or equal to 99.99%

Volta.
June 24th, 2006, 05:13 PM
The Latis were in the prologue to Pokemon Heroes (Japanese-only) where they told the story of how hundreds of them saved the world, or at least Altomare I think. but o well. Verify with Serebii.net

miyo
June 25th, 2006, 05:45 AM
Hmm... Legendary Pokemon. If you say that they have a certain story behind them, well then, any ordinary Pokemon can be legendary (say like "the Ratata who nicked the Picknickers food and never got caught" kind of thing).

I consider these Pokemon to be Mythical rather than Legendary. Mainly because not a lot of people see them, and most of the battles these Pokemon fought were titanic (the Groudon/Kyogre Battle for instance) and it had the fate of the world in the balance.

Call them Legendary if you want, I don't mind. I just thought they ought to be called something better.

I agree with calling them comething nicer.. Other than Ho-oh (I am still rather convinced that Ho-oh is different and can still be called legendary), I think the rest shouldn't be called legendary..

Hmm.. in my opinion, legendaries shouldn't be seen.. Ash and co has seen the rest of the pokemon and had a closer encounter with them. But Ho-oh.. no one has ever seen Ho-oh really.. Ash had only seen very quick views of it... so, yeah, I still think Ho-oh is different. I think Ho-oh can still be called a legendary..

♥Naomi♥
June 25th, 2006, 12:26 PM
Lengendaries arent 99.99% extinct. Well at least Latias isnt.(:P) Her Emerald Pokedex says they gather in herds of several members.

yeah,i was wondering bout that...and in pokemon heros there WAS 2 latios,latios and his father sealed in soul dew,then latias,and there possibly WAS latias's mother

as for mewtwo,it has no myths or legend to back up its uberness.i dont consider it a legendary.

the legendary birds,eh,not so much.

and the legendary cats/dogs/whatever you call them,i belive they are.no one really ever knows where they are because of there fastness...

ho-oh and lugia:i think they both are.not as much lugia as ho-oh because ppl have seen it O_O

regis:if you read the braille in the game,it says ppl sealed them because they where terrorizing them or something(mabys a conection with the tree of origin?).

but meh,just my theroy

Volta.
June 25th, 2006, 04:03 PM
Well, Mewtwo was genetically engineered from Mew's DNA.

Oh, and don't you think other legendaries must've had parents like the Latis and Lugia? Otherwise, how would they survive? Of course they'd be extinct, then.

Regis dont need parents 'cause they're bots.

♥Naomi♥
June 25th, 2006, 04:29 PM
Well, Mewtwo was genetically engineered from Mew's DNA.

Oh, and don't you think other legendaries must've had parents like the Latis and Lugia? Otherwise, how would they survive? Of course they'd be extinct, then.

Regis dont need parents 'cause they're bots.
yeah,if there are even legendarys at all,they would need parents,to keep there species alive,they would need to some how breed.so i dont see how legendarys cant breed,exept for the regis,as you said,there bots.

Rioku_Zanketa
June 25th, 2006, 04:35 PM
hold on,hold on,hold on........some of you say that not many people know about the poke'mon that are considered ledgendaries.....therefor you say they aren't.....well,....don't ya think we coun't?....and if not how come?...we know about poke'mon all the same!!and truthfuly the guys in the gameboys aren't the same either!!cuz if they were,....all poke'mon trainers in the games' I.d's are not the same,.....there for..............they're not............wait.......OK!!!!!depend's on which poke'mon world you're talking about!!!!I kinda stumbled onto the game world as well....so I guess in this quesion,the game universe goes along with the cartoon universe,...so while asking the question means also asking for which world too....

so in otherwords,...the Ledgenaries are indeed Ledgendary in the cartoon series...because to THE PRESENT DAY,....not many people see Latias,so it's not determined by how many,but how many important people have seen it...si indeed,yeap.....in the series,all ledgendary poke'mon are,...well,Ledgendary...WHILE as in the games,no...they're far from that,...because many people have seen one,and many people have traded them...and those guys in the game not only represent themselves,but also us because we are making 87.86% of all actions taken.....

wow....I think I just solved it...does anyone understand all that?!...(doubt it...:\)

Astinus
June 25th, 2006, 11:43 PM
If you also throw in the quality of Legendaries that there should only be one of them, then that means that a lot of what are considered Legendaries aren't anymore.

There is more than one Lugia. In fact, there is three. The Lugia from the Orange Islands, the Lugia from the Whirl Islands, and the baby Lugia. So while there are the legends surrounding Lugia, like it being the "Beast of the Sea" and creating/ending storms, then it is not really Legendary in the fact that there is more than one.

There is more than one of the Legendary Bird Trio. The three from the Orange Islands, the three from Johto, and the Articuno that Noland has. Though there are the legends of these birds saving lives and being part of the Shamouti prophecy, they lose thier Legendary status because there is more than one.

It could be highly debated that there are multiple Celebi. In "Guardian of the Forest," all those Celebi came from different moments in time to help the "present day" Celebi. (Or would it be past day?) So while there is the legend of Celebi passing through time, they also lose their Legendary status because there is more than one.

We know that there is more than one Lati@s. It said so in both the movie and the games. No real discussion there.

As for the fact that Legendaries have been seen: The Legendary Beasts(Raikou, Entei, and Suicune) race across the land, keeping an eye on the human race. You don't honestly think that they would have been spotted once in the three hundred years they've been running?

The Legendary Bird Trio has been seen because their legends say that they came down from the sky to rescue humans.

If they truely are the "gods" of the Pokémon world, then there is no reason to think that gods and mortals can not mix. It happened in the stories of the ancient Greek gods. It could happen in the Pokémon world.

The reason why these Pokés are considered legendary in the games is due to the stats. Games can influence the anime, but the two don't have to equal one another. They are also pixels, and you can duplicate them using a cheat. It's not easy to duplicate Pokémon in the show's world. They are gods in that media, fighting machines in the game's media.

In other words: games =/= anime

miyo
June 26th, 2006, 12:11 AM
I agree with the game =/= anime part.. it's almost as if you have control over the game. Whereas in the anime, it's more 'realistic' (although Pokemon itself isn't a reality..).

Also, just another point I'd like to bring out.. what about Deoxys? It's also considered a legendary right? But it has more than one as well.

So I actually wanna say that I am still convinced that Ho-Oh is the only one I acknowledge as Legendary, even after reading the other posts. There's only one.. and it's location is really unknown (other than the skies).

The rest of the legendaries.. most of their locations are somehow known, so they can't be really labeled as legendary.. more like, rare than legendary.

Lugia: it can be found in the waters of shamouti islands; and in one of the advanced challenge episodes, the lugia that was caught with her child was very weak.. how could these be called legendary?

Mewtwo: It was CLONED. It was created by humans.. how could it be a legendary??

Mew: There were fossils of Mew. So I think they are ancient more than legendary.. Legendary pokemon don't leave behind fossils like to be cloned by humans right?

Lati@s: These two pokemon can be found in Altomare.. and there should be more according to the pokedex fact that they live in herds..

Celebi: I haven't got any evidence to prove that this isn't legendary.. the only thing that I deem it 'un-legendary' is because it was really weak in the movie.. legendary pokemon are supposedly gods.. how could it be caught just like that??

Bird trio: they live on the three islands near Shamouti.. and there's more than one of Articuno.. so, it'll come as no surprise if there were another of Moltres and Zapdos.

Dog trio: They roam the land, and like what Hanako Tabris had said, keeping an eye on the human race. They would have been more god-like if they had been sitting in the skies and watching over the human race from above.. but now, they can be seen by human ON LAND! To me, they are more like defenders of pokemon.

Rayquaza: it's not legendary because we know it exists. It's just that we don't always come across a Rayquaza because it lives in the Ozone layer.. fly a plane and infiltrate the ozone layer, and Rayquaza will come blasting you with attacks (like it did on Deoxys)

Deoxys: There's more than one of it..

That's just my opinion.. hmmm. I typed quite a lengthy bit huh. XD

Rioku_Zanketa
June 26th, 2006, 01:38 AM
hmm..there could also be the fact that they are taling about a "certain"one


no matter..I see now....you guys are right...while making the stories,they messed up/forgot about other facts therefor,....these questions on wether they're ledgendary or not is still undecided,until they fix up the storyline...If they keep it the way it is,...then besides Ho-oh(even though I don't like it and think it's ugly,..)there are no Ledgendaries...

Mew: There were fossils of Mew. So I think they are ancient more than legendary.. Legendary pokemon don't leave behind fossils like to be cloned by humans right?
what?!!!just because they never found fossils of othe "Ledgendaries,...doesn't mean there aren't any...just like our world,they don't know and fully understand 100% of it..and know al secrets...


As for the fact that Legendaries have been seen: The Legendary Beasts(Raikou, Entei, and Suicune) race across the land, keeping an eye on the human race. You don't honestly think that they would have been spotted once in the three hundred years they've been running?
remember..they run at lightning speed....maybe they got lucky...just bbecause they don't have their own place or somethin,doesn't judge wether they're ledgendary....most likley the fact that they can keep up the running for 100 years probably makes them ledgendary...


Rayquaza: it's not legendary because we know it exists. It's just that we don't always come across a Rayquaza because it lives in the Ozone layer.. fly a plane and infiltrate the ozone layer, and Rayquaza will come blasting you with attacks (like it did on Deoxys)

uh,..we know all the others exist as well..what's your point?...


Mewtwo: It was CLONED. It was created by humans.. how could it be a legendary??

even so,he still is a poke'mon nevertheless.....as as the first movie stated "He is the strongest poke'mon on earth"......they said it themselves...


oh,and BTW,...you don't have to be "god-like"to be ledgendary.....it bascally means to do something great and almost impossible no other of your species has ever done before....let's say four soldiers stopped a quadrant of soldiers or something,and managed to live to tell the tale....that would make them ledgendary....catch my drift?..

Astinus
June 26th, 2006, 02:18 AM
The Legendary Beasts are Legendary in my eyes because:

a.) they were created by Ho-Oh and are the embodiment of elements

b.) they are one-of-a-kind because they were created by Ho-Oh

c.) because Nintendo says so. XD

There are Native American legends that explain how things were created. They mention coyotes. We know coyotes existed. Could they really put stars in the sky? No. But the Native Americans believed that they could, and accepted it as the truth. It's handed down by tradition, it was accepted as truth, thus it is a legend.

As for "defenders of Pokémon," most of the Legendaries saved a life somehow. Ho-Oh did. It's rumored that it saved Ash's life. Which means that if just defended creatures makes something not legendary, that means Ho-Oh isn't.

Location: The Beasts don't have a set location. They run across the land. Can't just say that being up in the sky makes it a legendary. Ho-Oh has been seen by humans! By both Ash and an army of humans three hundred years ago.

The people of the Pokémon world know that every legendary Pokémon exists. All have been seen by at least one human at one point in history. And there is your loop-hole in your theory of Ho-Oh.

Only one? Only one of the Legendary Beasts. You have to credit them as legendary too if you credit Ho-Oh as one.

Location? In the sky. But was originally living on the planet in the towers of Ecruteak City. Location pinpointed. And the Legendary Beasts don't have a set location either. You have to count them as legendary.

Not been seen? Been seen twice in a span of three hundred years.

Mew is Legendary due to the fact that it "created" every Pokémon. Thus, it has Legendary powers, and should be a Legendary.

Celebi is a Legendary. It has the power to travel through time. Your average Rattata can't do that, can it? One aspect of it does not deem it un-legendary. You must look at all the facts.

Rayquaza is iffy. It has the powers to stop Groudon and Kyogre from battling. Not a lot has really been covered on the emerald dragon.

As for Lugia, what? Did you miss the second movie? It defended off the powers of the three birds and basically stopped the world from being destroyed. Is that what you would call weak? The only reason the one in the Whirl Islands was captured was because it was worried for its child. If you have your eyes set on winning back the most precious thing in the world to you, you aren't going to be up to snuff for battling.

Oh, and I agree with you 100% on your last part of your post, Rioku_Zanketa. You don't have to be god-like to be legendary. You just got to make the best with what you have.

miyo
June 28th, 2006, 12:04 AM
Hanako Tabris: Yes, I did watch movie 2 fyi.. the only movie that I haven't watched would be the 8th movie (lucario).

As for the Ho-oh saved Ash part, it was only a rumour, and IMO, rumours do run around legendaries..

Yes, Ho-oh was seen by Ash and an army 300 years ago, but 300 years ago.. we do not know for sure if something like that really happened 300 years ago.. I don't think people in the anime can confirm 100% whether Ho-oh does really exist.. they just believed it exists (just a crazy thought: what if Ho-oh was a mirage or something? the one Ash saw was a 'mirage Ho-oh'? I know.. wild guess)It is so much rarer seen than the other pokemon.. it's almost like, now you see Ho-oh, now you don't...

Also, I'm not totally stereotyping that legendaries have god-like powers, just that, they should at least possess some super strong and unique abilities. I mean, you can't have a celebi that has the same physical status as a ratata.. there's more to its power..

--- --- ---
As for Rioku's uh,..we know all the others exist as well..what's your point?... and even so,he still is a poke'mon nevertheless.....as as the first movie stated "He is the strongest poke'mon on earth"......they said it themselves...

Yes, we know they exist somehow, my point was that because Ho-oh was only seen by Ash and the army 300 years ago in the anime, no one can really confirm if Ho-oh existed.. The people in the anime believed in their existence, but no one (not even Ash), can confirm it.. Sometimes, when you thought you'd seen something, you actually didn't, so my theory actually works along that line for Ash's case of seeing Ho-oh..

As for the Mewtwo, I didn't say Mewtwo wasn't a pokemon.. what I meant was that it was created by humans from Mew's fossils, so it is unlikely IMO for it to be a legendary.. you said he was the strongest pokemon in the world, but then you said again that legendaries doesn't necessarily have god-like powers, so why are you bringing up the "he is the strongest pokemon on Earth"...?

Hmmm. I think this thread is becoming a mini debate.. lols. But it's interesting ^^

Toothache
June 28th, 2006, 05:04 AM
Something no-one has mentioned that adds an interesting twist to the debate. Arcanine's Pokedex entry lists it as a Legendary Type. Arcanine are neither elusive that there are a few/only one of them or superpowerful like Mewtwo (although they do have high overall stats, but a limited movepool balances this out).

Volta.
June 28th, 2006, 05:28 AM
....

Yes, Ho-oh was seen by ... an army 300 years ago
....

Are you talking about in the 8th movie? If so, that wasn't Ho-oh, it was Mew who transformed into Ho-oh.

miyo
June 29th, 2006, 01:13 AM
hmmmm, after all these, don't you think Nintendo should properly define what 'legendary' is? perhaps if they could give us a proper definition, we wouldn't be having this debate.. argh, but they'll never have the time to bother about this little thread here.. ><;;

Astinus
June 29th, 2006, 06:19 AM
Are you talking about in the 8th movie? If so, that wasn't Ho-oh, it was Mew who transformed into Ho-oh.

In the Master Quest episode "For Ho-Oh the Bells Toll", Eusine told Team Twerp the "story" of the Legendary Beasts' creation. He said that 300 years ago, during a great war, an army stormed the Tin Tower to steal Ho-Oh's powers for themselves. They burned down the tower. Three Pokemon were stuck inside the tower and they died. So Ho-Oh revived them, giving them new life as Suicune, Raikou, and Entei. Later evidence of this is told in "Pop Goes the Sneasel", in which Harrison(I'm not sure if it was him who told it, or the sage, but...) told about the fire burning the land, and Ho-Oh reviving that too.

By the way, 300 years ago probably means that there was the concept of writing in the Pokemon world. We know Columbus sailed around the world over 500 years ago. The American Constitution was written over 200 years ago. Unless the Pokemon world is really slow, then they could have written documents of that day.

You say that a Legendary should have a unique power. They all do. (One could argue the trios and possilbly the Latis, but the others do.) Ho-Oh has the power to create new life, Lugia calms nature in a sense, Celebi travels through time, Mew also can create life, Groudon/Kyogre can create land/water, Rayquaza stopped that feud, Deoxys can change form and comes from space, and Mewtwo is the strongest Pokemon ever created. You can't really deny the fact that he is a Pokemon, because they have no other creatures in that world other than humans. Besides, that was the point of the first movie: That no matter the circumstances of your birth, you are all equal. (I can argue the Hoenn Pokemon. I don't really know much about them. Johto yes, Hoenn no.)

Really, Nintendo defined what legendary is: The ones that take a lot of Pokeballs to catch, and the ones with uber-stats. The ones that fall under this category are the Pokes up for arguement.

Volta.
June 29th, 2006, 08:06 AM
Really, Nintendo defined what legendary is: The ones that take a lot of Pokeballs to catch, and the ones with uber-stats. The ones that fall under this category are the Pokes up for arguement.

:laugh: I suppose u could say that! They're a real drain on our economy!

miyo
June 30th, 2006, 03:14 AM
Really, Nintendo defined what legendary is: The ones that take a lot of Pokeballs to catch, and the ones with uber-stats. The ones that fall under this category are the Pokes up for arguement.

o.. I didn't know they had a definition for it.. but I think it's not a very good definition if you ask me.. I mean, there are still pokemon that has good stats and are hard to catch.. Perhaps I can't argue much about the 'good stats' part, but the 'takes a lot of pokeball to catch', I'd beg to differ.. Even a slugma can take you quite some a number of pokeball to capture it.. o.o