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Geometric-sama
December 13th, 2006, 06:27 AM
Normally don't post my decks around the place, but PC is small so I guess it won't hurt :)

Please don't quote this post - I'll probably take it down once it's got some reviews.

No Clefairy in this deck - instead, it's TALES of a QUEEN...

Format: Modified (DX-on)

Pokémon (24)

4 Nidoran d DF
2 Nidorina d DF
4 Nidoqueen d DF

2 Vulpix d DF
4 Ninetales d DF

2 Magikarp d HP
2 Gyarados d HP

2 Pinsir d DF

2 Holon's Castform

Trainers (21)

3 Holon Transceiver
3 Holon Researcher
1 Holon Mentor
4 Holon Ruins
2 Holon Lake
1 Holon Scientist
3 Holon Adventurer
1 Holon Lass

3 Rare Candy

Energy (15)

4 Metal
3 d Rainbow
4 Boost
1 Scramble
2 Heal
1 Holon's Magnetrode


Strategy: Nidoqueen is the main attacker - Boosts are very important in this deck. Ninetales' power will help power up Nidoqueen's attack - get one Ninetales out, use its power, and if you draw another Vulpix or Ninetales discard it when you use one of the Holon supporters. Gyarados just powers up further. Try and get the first Queen quickly and use its power to set up the deck. Holon Engine helps to discard those Pokémon quickly too.

Possible modifications: I've playtested this deck once and have a 2-1 record with it (the first game I played I hadn't split up the deck properly before shuffling it for the first time, and all my Ninetales and all my Queens clumped so I couldn't get a setup). A modification I've already made is pulling a Magnetrode for another Boost - I realised just how essential they were when I was down to one card in my deck (and one prize), needed that card to be a Boost to win and got it. >D Suggestions that have been made to me are:

- Pull one Ruins for another Lake
- Replace the Magnetrode with another Castform (I think I'll do this)
- Pull the Gyarados line for 2-2 Delcatty ex (to prevent decking out)
- Pull the Gyarados line for 2 Strength Charms and a 1-1 line of either Espeon d or Milotic d

Help, people? I only have one league session left to playtest before Cities.

Jaimes
December 15th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Looks a very interesting and good deck! I haven't had much experience with Nidoqueen myself - but here are my thoughts:

Pokemops:
First of I've noticed there are 25 Pokemon (as result of the Ninetales line) - despite Nidoqueen needs Pokemon in the Discard Pile to beef up her attack, you should be able to reduce this number easily.
First things first, replace the Pinsirs! It's delta call is good for getting out Queen early, but not worth the effort, since you'll also need a Nidoran, Rare Candy and lots of Pokemon in your discard before actually doing anything. After you have Nidoqueen out, Pinsirs attack becomes redundant (since her Power just beats it), his attack is too costly and he becomes a target. His body rarely helps stalling your opponent. Replace these with another pair of Holons Castforms.
The Castforms are excellent starters if played right. All your basics have d on their card and after a good Transceiver then Mentor; you should have a decent number on your bench, drawing around 4 cards after T2. Unlike Pinsir, Castform has unlimited potential as active (drawing > searching for specific types of cards). With the excessive drawing you should be able to whip through your deck a lot quicker to get out certain trainers, making the speed of your deck a lot faster. Yes this card does require basics on the bench (as opposed to in the discard) but this can be put to your advantage as well if you change your trainers.;) Why else if 4 Castforms essential? They're energies as well! Your list already has technically 19 energy cards. These are better since after discarding, they'll increase Nidoqueens attack, as well as being searchable with her power. Run 4 to increase the number of starts you have and to increase consistency. 2 doesn't look right to me :)

Nidoqueen line looks good. I might prefer a 4-3-4 line as Nidorinas are easy to discard mid game as well as being relatively decent attackers earlier on.

A 2-2 supporting line is the best choice for playing Nidoqueen - Gyarados d is a very good choice if you had a good way of keeping a Stadium in play (golduck d vs. Windstorms?). Unfortunately I wouldn't suggest you do so. Your opponent will also run multiple stadiums and you are hoping that a Holon one is in play. Very often there won't be one. For an extra 20 damage given that both Gyarados' are in play, its not worth 4 slots. Also because I'm going to change your Stadiums ;)
I'd suggest that you go for a Milotic or Espeon line as you suggested. Delcatty ex could probably work- but why you'd have many energy cards in your discard pile is quite a wonder (should be using Holon Pokes and fingers crossed you won't be KOed much).

Honestly - I wouldn't use Ninetales. Its power only will increases Nidoqueens attack by a maximum of 40 damage over 4 turns. Which could be done (possibly faster) using trainers. Also getting this stuck on active looks like giving your opponent a prize. However since I’ve never tested it, there is a good chance of its use, so I’ll leave it in your deck. I hope it works because that’s one very nice idea.

Additionally I would use more Magnetrodes instead of energy. Like the Castforms they are searchable with Invitation, add up for Queens attacks when attached to a KOd Pokemon or when retreating, function as many types and so on. Some decks using Magnemites as well (Mentorable /Invitation energy) but starts with this are too unpredictable as well as not working with Delta Draw.

Trainers:
I see the word ‘Holon a lot’ :D
Your Holon Engine looks good, but slightly out of proportion for this deck. I would recommend:

3/4 Transceivers (remember these use stuff in the discard as well)
2 Researchers
2 Mentors (1 = prizing. 2 increases the likelihood of a good Castform start)
2/3 Adventurer
1 Scientist
0 Lass. (Holon’s Pokemon are energy too! Queen will search for them)
0/1 Farmer (You shouldn’t really need one since you have a 4-2-4 Queen, so you might want to playtest this idea a bit more)

3 Rare Candy (Good Good Good) :badsmile:

If you scrap one of the Pokemon lines, you would make a lot of space for the trainers in this deck. You have no Brineys! :O These make a great difference. As well as saving a [M] loaded damaged Queen and annoying your opponent this returns any unwanted cards to your hand so they can be discarded with a trainer. I think 2 is a fine number for this deck.
Also not having a Switch or/and Warp Point here raises an eyebrow. Especially when Queen has a high retreat in a deck using useful energies. The same with your lack of 2 Windstorms. A Battle Frontier, Cursed Stone or Holon Legacy will really bummer this deck. This seems to be a good idea to play at the moment. A Protective Orb would also be handy if there is a high play of Flygon ex or other [P] types in your area. I’m not too sure about using 2 Strength Charms, if you have a fast enough set up, you shouldn’t need them.

6 Stadium cards is an awful lot. Even if it is for powering Gyarados. I mentioned earlier that using Holons Castform and filling the bench is a good idea despite it contradicting Nidoqueens attack slightly. The reason for this is that I would hugely recommend you switch them for Giant Stump! Fill up a bench, discard the fillers – do some more damage! As well as annoying your opponent to no end by limiting their bench. Since very few Pokemon are really needed in play for Nidoqueen d decks (depending on what support you have in your deck), this will rarely effect your play much. If it does, Briney up a useless card or Windstorm your stadium away, lay some basics and then play another one. I also think that a Holon Ruins is an excellent card in this deck – but 4 are over kill. 3 Stump, 2 Ruins would be sufficient for me.:knockedou

Energy
You have way too many energies. Again, especially when you have the Holons Pokemon. I feel that 4 Boost is excessive (2-3 would be more practical), otherwise once you’ve run out you have no energies left. And the d Rainbow energies are unnecessary since Holons also pay for any energy cost.
And a quick heads up – don’t run DRE.

That’s all there is to say IMO. Speed is essential in this deck – to set up a heavy and consistent amount of damage from Nidoqueen is the main aim. The discards should be accomplished by trainers in my opinion. I’d like to point out –these are also only my humble thoughts. :cheeky:
I would like to point out one crucial thing. Nidoqueens attack does a maximum when there are 6 Pokemon in the discard. Many Queen decks forget about this and build their deck focusing on getting as many Pokemon in the discard as possible – costing them their speed and consistency.

Anyway! This has potential for being a top deck. Good Luck with it and your upcoming CC. If you want to do some more playtesting – have you tried out Appretnice? It’s a great deck simulator thingy.

james:classic:

woop woop

Feuer
January 3rd, 2007, 07:35 PM
a good rating of 9/10 from me. i just have to ask why ure using the queen set. seeing as u live in australia u should know that everyone is talking about the queen as if they owe her holmage. try the Nodoking line. a king that would be a good change. when queen elizabeth the second dies we'll have a king so u might as well get a king deck. the queen is 80 years old. she's going to give in sooner or later. everyone in melbourne will cheer as they will find a happier life.

Melbourne. y is it multicultaral they ask. i don't kbnow. it is the most liveable cityt in the world

melbournians rule. back on topic. Nidoking would also be easier to bring out. it's ur funeral. if u dont want to win nats.

Geometric-sama
January 7th, 2007, 06:21 AM
Aargh! I completely forgot this thread was here x_x

I played the following build in <span class="annot_location">Cities</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Cities"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Cities&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> today. We didn't have top cut, just Swiss rounds, and I had a bye first round so I ended up T4ing.

Pokémon

4 Nidoran d DF
2 Nidorina d DF
4 Nidoqueen d DF

2 Vulpix d DF
4 Ninetales d DF

1 Magikarp d HP
1 Gyarados d HP

1 Feebas d DF
1 Milotic d DF

1 Minun DX

3 Holon's Castform

Trainers

3 Holon Transceiver
2 Holon Researcher
1 Holon Mentor
2 Holon Ruins
2 Holon Lake
1 Holon Scientist
2 Holon Adventurer
1 Holon Lass

3 Rare Candy
2 Warp Point
1 Windstorm
2 Copycat

<span class="annot_organization">Energy</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Energy"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Energy&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a>

4 Metal
1 d Rainbow
2 DRE
4 Boost
1 Scramble
2 Heal

(think that's right :D)


Two 1-1 lines sounds dangerous but after playtesting for the <span class="annot_date">last month</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=last month"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=last month&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> I've found they work fine for me. Gyarados gives the <span class="annot_location">Queen</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Queen"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Queen&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> 100 damage power and that's often enough to KO, though <span class="annot_person">I've</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=I've"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=I've&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> found myself wishing I could find room for a Strength Charm or two in the deck. I may test the deck with <span class="annot_person">Espy</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Espy"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Espy&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> instead of Gyara for a bit. Minun DX is mainly for mid-late game to get my Boosts back, but <span class="annot_person">I've</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=I've"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=I've&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> also used it late when I have a Nidoran on the bench and a Queen in my hand, but all my Candies are in the discard.

I tested 3 Boosts when I first built the deck and found I really did need the 4. As well as being great for Nidoqueen early in the game, I can use them in a pinch on Ninetales or even to power up Gyarados' Heavy Impact (that's won me a couple of matches).

Ninetales' power can be used more than once a turn, since you're getting a new one each time (official ruling on the 'Gym). That means if I have T2 or T3 Ninetales and a <span class="annot_location">Queen</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Queen"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Queen&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> out then I can Boost and attack their weak point for massive damage. XD Points if you get the reference. I put in the DREs mainly for Tales, though I can put them on a Queen or Gyara too and Castform them back when I need the extra damage. Why? Trick Tail = t3h AWESOME for powering up that Vengeance. And free retreat is fun, too.

Have never played <span class="annot_location">Farmer</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Farmer"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Farmer&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> in this deck and probably never will. :D Lass has saved me early game when I haven't drawn any energy that I can attach to my Basics - with this build I only have 7 energies that will attach to a basic, so I'm probably leaving that in. I took out a couple of the stadiums and added a Windstorm mainly to counter Cess (one deck I tested against was RaiEggs and it completely PWNED me with the Cess), as well as replacing the Pinsirs with Warp Points.

Orb might be very, very helpful to me, if I can figure out what to take out for it. The <span class="annot_location">Melbourne</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Melbourne"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Melbourne&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> metagame is loaded with Psychic decks - Deoxys, Mercury, Banette, Mewtric as well as random - though Flygon ex d isn't being played here yet. Still, the OHKOs really hurt. I considered Legacy but that'd ruin my Invitations. I realised that Brineys might help too, but again, it's very hard to find room. I saw someone mention <span class="annot_person">Giant Stump</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Giant Stump"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Giant Stump&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> with GatrQueen on the 'Gym, and thought I might put one or two in, but not at the expense of a Holon stadium while I'm still running the Gyarados. If I test with Espeon then I think I'll replace the <span class="annot_location">Lakes</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Lakes"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Lakes&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> with Stumps.

Apprentice is awesome, except I can't get it to connect to anyone else. I'm guessing it's my dialup. XD

jwilso72, thanks for taking the time to review my deck and suggest so many fixes, even though I forgot to read the thread before Cities. XD I'm definitely going to test some of your suggestions and take a modified build to States.


Flame Healer: I use <span class="annot_location">Queen</span><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Queen"><sup>[g]</sup></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Queen&go=Go"><sup>[w]</sup></a> because it works. Awesome attacker. 'Sides, it's a metal deck. King's all well and good but its attacks kind of phail. And with Marcus/Jade/everyone else around I'm not going to win Nats anyway. XD Especially with our Psychic-flooded metagame.