So what's up with Ash! [Archive] - The PokéCommunity Forums

Poké King

December 26th, 2006, 09:32 PM

After the first like 5 episodes this has popped in my head and every since all the other seasons its gone from what's up with Ash to WTF is wrong with Ash. I say what's up with Ash because there are a lot of things he does do and doesn't do that don't really make much sense considering he wants to become a Pokémon Master, they include:

1) Why doesn't Ash ever capture Pokémon? I mean sure he captured a few but most of them weren't like "Oo I see a *blank* and wanna capture it", they were more like "Hey I came across *blank* and it likes me so I'm gonna capture it" I mean even Misty back in the day if I recall talked about how Ash didn't really capture the Pokémon he had on him which then prompted him to capture his Krabby. Plus when you take in account he has had numerous chances to do so, some of which offered pretty good Pokémon. So if he wants to be a Pokémon Master as he stated a lot back in the day why would he do nothing to really get there, it kind of reminds me of Naruto always talking about being Hokage but in the end doing really nothing to do so.

2) Why doesn't Ash battle much? Ya he battles Gym Leaders, Frontier Brains and rarely fellow Trainers but mostly he doesn't battle at all, nor does he train his Pokémon in others ways to make up for that fact.

3) #2 brings me to another question which is how does Ash win battles? I mean his lack of variety of Pokémon as well as a lack of training for them should mean he doesn't win much but practically every person he faces he beats and if he doesn't beat them the first time he does the second. And add to it that he is incompetent in battling most of the time like using Normal Type Moves against Ghost Types or sticking with a Pokémon even if he has a horrible disadvantage with it because there low on HP or have a Type disadvantage or something else. To me it seems that he wings most of his battles and wins by luck usually just like May does in Contest.

In the end the only thing Ash seems to do right is actively pursue gaining his Badges for the Region he is in. And treat his Pokémon right of course.

So what are your thoughts on this?

Mudkip85

December 27th, 2006, 12:40 AM

Poké King

December 27th, 2006, 01:22 AM

Just to be a real pain im going to try to counter argue each of your points XD.

Firstly i think to be a pokemon master as Ash wants to be, he feels that he doesnt need a wide range of pokemon to achieve his goal but instead wants to focus on the pokemon he has and train them to his best of ability. Consider also that Ash also likes having close relationships with his pokemon and we have to think that hes not going to have this with every single pokemon he meets so why catch?

Secondly, if Ash was to battle non stop in every episode it would get very boring for us so the odd occasional one on one trainer battles are enough to keep us going until the next gym. I also think that having side adventures and obstacles is a nice change from battling. And if you think about it Ash does battle 'everyday' . . . with TEAM ROCKET!

Lastly Ash has skill! Despite his lack in pokemon he does have variety and uses their abilities in a clever and inventive ways, also using his surroundings to aid his pokemon during battle. However one thing i cant argue you with you about sadly is May winning her contests, as most of the time luck aids her in her victories for example her Munchlax's metronome turning into something spectacular!

~Kipper~
Ya he does battle Team Rocket everyday but at the same time there so weak its not really any kind of training or experience for his Pokémon which is why I didn't count them. As for him battling cleverly and inventively, yes he does do that some times but a lot of times not so much. Also I never said he was incompetent all the time, just most of the time. I mean come on how can you forget that Normal Type Moves are ineffective against Ghost Types, the first time he did it back in the day was to teach the audience about the game but recently I saw him do it and that don't make sense.

As for side adventures, ya there good but I think the series has become more about the adventure of traveling and not the adventure of training, raising & battling your Pokémon which is what the series is supposed to be about. I mean if it wasn't for May and her Contest we barely see any battles on the show so though she may be an incompetent Coordinator she does give us battles.

Mudkip85

December 27th, 2006, 03:09 AM

Ya he does battle Team Rocket everyday but at the same time there so weak its not really any kind of training or experience for his Pokémon which is why I didn't count them. As for him battling cleverly and inventively, yes he does do that some times but a lot of times not so much. Also I never said he was incompetent all the time, just most of the time. I mean come on how can you forget that Normal Type Moves are ineffective against Ghost Types, the first time he did it back in the day was to teach the audience about the game but recently I saw him do it and that don't make sense.

As for side adventures, ya there good but I think the series has become more about the adventure of traveling and not the adventure of training, raising & battling your Pokémon which is what the series is supposed to be about. I mean if it wasn't for May and her Contest we barely see any battles on the show so though she may be an incompetent Coordinator she does give us battles.

As for his mistake on forgetting that normal type moves are inefecctive on ghost type pokemon i cant say much for that apart from a dumb mistake which i dont think any trainer would make. We have to consider aswell that Ash is still learning which means that he would make the occasional mistake even if it is extremely dumb.

I want to ask you aswell if you mean you have only watched the first five episodes of the first season, because if so i dont think you can really judge Ash based on that limited amount of time. As the seasons go on for me personally, the episodes and storylines become more complex and interesting. So just give hime a chance if you really have only eatched the first five episodes! XD

~Kipper~

Scales

December 27th, 2006, 03:33 AM

SBaby

December 27th, 2006, 03:34 AM

Just to be a real pain im going to try to counter argue each of your points XD.

Firstly i think to be a pokemon master as Ash wants to be, he feels that he doesnt need a wide range of pokemon to achieve his goal but instead wants to focus on the pokemon he has and train them to his best of ability. Consider also that Ash also likes having close relationships with his pokemon and we have to think that hes not going to have this with every single pokemon he meets so why catch?
[/I][/B]

You're partially right. But you're forgetting the selling point.

Basically, he wants to focus on the 'starters' and a few other Pokemon in each new Region, forsaking the previous ones for all but a few choice episodes. See, what people don't realize is that while Pokemon is clearly an Anime, it is also a big commercial for the games, so of course Ash's gonna use the 'current trend' of Pokemon. That's why Ash decided to 'start over' in Hoenn by 'Oaking' his Pokemon. Do you honestly think it was for the sake of his relations with Pokemon, or some big hidden plot that's been secretly building for over three years? No. It's just to sell the new game.

But before you get mad, you gotta realize that this isn't even a new concept. It's been done time and time again (and it's practically foolproof, from what I see). Here's a few examples.

In Transformers the Movie, how many of the original Autobots were killed in order to 'usher in' (sell) the new ones? And didn't lack of popularity with the infamous Death of Optimus end in him being revived?

In He-Man, they had an entire movie made to bring in the She-Ra franchise (which is probably still considered to be the most successful spin-off since Jetsons), and sell the toys.

My point, it happens everywhere, so why should Pokemon be any different?

As for Pokemon Types, I'll say this, and mark my words. There'll come a time when types become so numerous and intermingled with one another due to the sheer number, that they'll be either completely redone, or phased out completely to make the Anime easier to make. Think about it. There's already more than ten (and I hear that two more are on the way). What happens when we get up to twenty, or even thirty?

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 03:50 AM

I think Ash's incompitance and idiocy are mostly for comic relief.

It's stereotypical cartoon tactic. Most of today's anime protoganists are some kid 10-15 who are cluumsy and eat a lot. This basically discribes Ash.

The writers make Ash the way he is for comic relief. That's all.

Mudkip85

December 27th, 2006, 03:50 AM

Yeah I see what you mean

As well
WHY DONT ASH"S POKEMON EVOLVE?

Pikachu I understand

But the only pokemon he ever evolved were I think is charmander and his chickorita. I cant remember though.

Even team rockets weak ass pokemon evolved

Well to be honest with you i agree that mainly his pokemon has not evolved but ones that have evolved include.

Charmander
Pidgotto
Caterpie
Krabby
Chikorita
Phanpy
Taillow
Treecko
Snorunt

Not many but there are a few.

~Kipper~

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 03:51 AM

Mudkip85

December 27th, 2006, 03:56 AM

That's a lot considering the little he has.

Well to be honest its not even half the amount he owns have evolved. 9/19 of his pokemon have evoloved which is pretty low. =D

~Kipper~

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 03:58 AM

Well to be honest its not even half the amount he owns have evolved. 9/19 of his pokemon have evoloved which is pretty low. =D

~Kipper~
But not every one of his Pokemon can evolve. Muk, Snorlax, Herecross, Noctowl and Torkaol have no evolutions.

Poké King

December 27th, 2006, 03:59 AM

As for his mistake on forgetting that normal type moves are inefecctive on ghost type pokemon i cant say much for that apart from a dumb mistake which i dont think any trainer would make. We have to consider aswell that Ash is still learning which means that he would make the occasional mistake even if it is extremely dumb.

I want to ask you aswell if you mean you have only watched the first five episodes of the first season, because if so i dont think you can really judge Ash based on that limited amount of time. As the seasons go on for me personally, the episodes and storylines become more complex and interesting. So just give hime a chance if you really have only eatched the first five episodes! XD

~Kipper~
Yes in the beginning he made that mistake and I understood but in recent episodes he made the mistake after competing in a ton of leagues and getting a ton of Badges therefore shouldn't of made the mistake. And I said after the first 5 episodes I began to be like what is wrong with Ash, I didn't say I watched only 5 episodes as I have watched every episode to come out in America so far pretty much.

Yeah I see what you mean

As well
WHY DONT ASH"S POKEMON EVOLVE?

Pikachu I understand

But the only pokemon he ever evolved were I think is charmander and his chickorita. I cant remember though.

Even team rockets weak ass pokemon evolved
Most of Ash's Pokémon don't evolve for the very same reasons I gave above which is that he doesn't train them or battle with them much therefore there not gonna get anywhere Level wise yet his unevolved Pokémon always seem to kick the ass of other Pokémon who clearly are greater Level wise.

As for Pokémon who haven't evolved yet, they are: Totodile, Cyndaquil, Bulbasaur and Squirtle. When it comes to the first two they probably haven't evolved because of lack of training, Bulbasaur if you recall chose to stay that way rather than evolve into Ivysaur very early in the series and Squirtle should of evolved though maybe before Ash got him he chose to not evolve on his own as well.

You're partially right. But you're forgetting the selling point.

Basically, he wants to focus on the 'starters' and a few other Pokemon in each new Region, forsaking the previous ones for all but a few choice episodes. See, what people don't realize is that while Pokemon is clearly an Anime, it is also a big commercial for the games, so of course Ash's gonna use the 'current trend' of Pokemon. That's why Ash decided to 'start over' in Hoenn by 'Oaking' his Pokemon. Do you honestly think it was for the sake of his relations with Pokemon, or some big hidden plot that's been secretly building for over three years? No. It's just to sell the new game.

......
As for Pokemon Types, I'll say this, and mark my words. There'll come a time when types become so numerous and intermingled with one another due to the sheer number, that they'll be either completely redone, or phased out completely to make the Anime easier to make. Think about it. There's already more than ten. What happens when we get up to twenty, or even thirty?
Ya I do understand why he changed up after every Region, course if you think they be trying to sell it good they make him capture more so we see more on a regular basis.

As for Types it will take forever to get to 30 and considering how tapped they are for ideas at this point as shown by Pearl & Diamond I doubt they could get to 30 and probably not even 20.

But not every one of his Pokemon can evolve. Muk, Snorlax, Herecross, Noctowl and Torkaol have no evolutions.
Ya Ash always captures Pokémon who don't evolve, wonder why? Maybe so we don't notice so easily that he barely trains them lol.

Scales

December 27th, 2006, 04:29 AM

Well to be honest with you i agree that mainly his pokemon has not evolved but ones that have evolved include.

Charmander
Pidgotto
Caterpie
Krabby
Chikorita
Phanpy
Taillow
Treecko
Snorunt

Not many but there are a few.

~Kipper~

Dont forget his mankey. It evolved and he gave it away. His kingler he barely uses and what happened to his Bayleaf? Phanpy EVOLVED? I didnt know that and I didnt know he had a snorunt. The rest he released. Like his butterfree. It was like his best friend and I always liked how he had it. Same with his pigeott. It was his right hand pokemon next to Pikachu. I hate how what ever cartoon company makes the anime got rid of his best pokemon

But the entire reason those pokemon dont evolve is because they have a very good potential when they level up. If they evolved it would have made some super pokemon that would have made the game to easy. Thats why legendarys dont lvl up. I mean Heracross is self explanitory

Torcoal is a very powerfull pokemon if you give it the right moves. Snorlax and muc are very powerfull. Especialy Snorlax since it can heal itself and do an attack in the process.

as to the fact of why ash is so weak

I think that Ash is supposed to be the opposite of Red. Red is a person who catches very powerfull pokemon and didnt sleep in on the first day. In fact in crystal when you face him in mount silver he is omega powerfull. He has lvl 70 pokemon.

Mudkip85

December 27th, 2006, 11:10 AM

Dont forget his mankey. It evolved and he gave it away. His kingler he barely uses and what happened to his Bayleaf? Phanpy EVOLVED? I didnt know that and I didnt know he had a snorunt. The rest he released. Like his butterfree. It was like his best friend and I always liked how he had it. Same with his pigeott. It was his right hand pokemon next to Pikachu. I hate how what ever cartoon company makes the anime got rid of his best pokemon

But the entire reason those pokemon dont evolve is because they have a very good potential when they level up. If they evolved it would have made some super pokemon that would have made the game to easy. Thats why legendarys dont lvl up. I mean Heracross is self explanitory

Torcoal is a very powerfull pokemon if you give it the right moves. Snorlax and muc are very powerfull. Especialy Snorlax since it can heal itself and do an attack in the process.

as to the fact of why ash is so weak

I think that Ash is supposed to be the opposite of Red. Red is a person who catches very powerfull pokemon and didnt sleep in on the first day. In fact in crystal when you face him in mount silver he is omega powerfull. He has lvl 70 pokemon.

Yeah good theory but the reason why you cant remember Ash catching a snorunt was because i dont think the eoisode in the ice caves where he caught it was aired!. Also i guess Ash releases all his pokemon 'for the good of other pokemon', as for example Butterfree ws released to be with the pink butterfree and pideot was let go by Ash to protect other weaker pokemon so it became the leader of a certain area.

~Kipper~

AC Coda X

December 27th, 2006, 01:05 PM

Dont forget his mankey. It evolved and he gave it away. His kingler he barely uses and what happened to his Bayleaf? Phanpy EVOLVED? I didnt know that and I didnt know he had a snorunt. The rest he released. Like his butterfree. It was like his best friend and I always liked how he had it. Same with his pigeott. It was his right hand pokemon next to Pikachu. I hate how what ever cartoon company makes the anime got rid of his best pokemon

But the entire reason those pokemon dont evolve is because they have a very good potential when they level up. If they evolved it would have made some super pokemon that would have made the game to easy. Thats why legendarys dont lvl up. I mean Heracross is self explanitory

Torcoal is a very powerfull pokemon if you give it the right moves. Snorlax and muc are very powerfull. Especialy Snorlax since it can heal itself and do an attack in the process.

as to the fact of why ash is so weak

I think that Ash is supposed to be the opposite of Red. Red is a person who catches very powerfull pokemon and didnt sleep in on the first day. In fact in crystal when you face him in mount silver he is omega powerfull. He has lvl 70 pokemon.

Umm... I'd dispute that theory, since Red is based on Ash. Red came second, don't forget, so he couldn't have been used to become the "Polar Opposite" of Ash. The reason Ash acts like an idiot is really only for one reason- he's not the brightest tool in the shed, that's all. And I'd like to dispute the fact that he doesn't train his Pokemon- it is possible, after all, that he could be training them off-screen, as in, between episodes. My main gripe about the anime these days is that I can no longer consider the idea of an AshXPikachu relationship due to Pikachu's being confirmed a freakin' male. I hate Pokemon anime writers. *sporks* I mean, I could write some of these episodes- all I'd have to do is get hopped up on adrenaline!

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 01:32 PM

Like I said. Ash is supposed to be stupid. It's for comic relief. If he won every battle and was really smart than it would be boring.

Latium

December 27th, 2006, 01:33 PM

I have to agree with both points here. But like the art critic said, ash really isnt all that bright. as a matter of fact him, May, Max, and brock get on my nerves sometimes. (almost always). I mean every time team rocket disguises themselves (even though i can hardly call their getups "disguises"), Ash and the gang always fall for it. No affense, but how gullable can you get?

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 01:35 PM

Poké King

December 27th, 2006, 01:37 PM

Yeah good theory but the reason why you cant remember Ash catching a snorunt was because i dont think the eoisode in the ice caves where he caught it was aired!.
The Snorunt episode aired here.

And I'd like to dispute the fact that he doesn't train his Pokemon- it is possible, after all, that he could be training them off-screen, as in, between episodes. My main gripe about the anime these days is that I can no longer consider the idea of an AshXPikachu relationship due to Pikachu's being confirmed a freakin' male. I hate Pokemon anime writers. *sporks* I mean, I could write some of these episodes- all I'd have to do is get hopped up on adrenaline!
Well, I never said he doesn't train his Pokémon, its just he doesn't do it a lot and ya he could be training in between episodes but I doubt as usually between episodes is when Ash & the gang travel from place to place so in every episode we don't have to see them going from point A to point B.

And lol about the Ash & Pikachu relationship being messed up by Pikachu being a boy, did you want them to get married or something? Though I think it be cute if Pikachu was a girl though he seems more like a male in the way he acts so if he was a girl people be like why was he acting that way before.

I mean every time team rocket disguises themselves (even though i can hardly call their getups "disguises"), Ash and the gang always fall for it. No affense, but how gullable can you get?
Ya lol, like in the episode where they were at the Pewter City Gym as supposed interior designers and somehow Brock, the gang as well as his whole family couldn't see that Meowth was a Meowth though they thought he was strange at least.

For the third frikkin' time. It's for comic relief!!
Ya I know but still its stupid and plus I think it could be said Jesse, James & Meowth are there strictly for comedic relief. As well as extend episode length. :D

Latium

December 27th, 2006, 01:45 PM

and another thing. Have you ever noticed that in intense battles the pokemon never die (they could get some serious whiplash from smashing into those walls). I mean i understand the officials stopping the match, but i mean dont these pokemon ever get seriously hurt. (not including the time when team rocket's Chimeco got really sick, same with may's munchlax). the only time ive ever seen pokemon close to fatal injury was in the first pokemon movie, And they were only punching and slapping eachother.

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 03:00 PM

Well, you have to remember 4kids owns Pokemon. They make it kid-friendly. The TV series aims at the 12 - Age groups. If it weren't for 4kids Pokemon would be a lot more violent. 4kids already banned like 9 episodes. They banned an episode just because they gave James breast implants to win a beauty contest.

The movies, however, are for some reason always more violent than the TV series.

Latium

December 27th, 2006, 03:07 PM

lol... yeah the movies are a little more violent. Just look at the first pokemon movie. The clone pokemon, and the real pokemon were pummeling eachother.

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 03:08 PM

Not to mention Ash turned to stone.

AC Coda X

December 27th, 2006, 03:54 PM

And lol about the Ash & Pikachu relationship being messed up by Pikachu being a boy, did you want them to get married or something? Though I think it be cute if Pikachu was a girl though he seems more like a male in the way he acts so if he was a girl people be like why was he acting that way before.

No, of course not! I just thought it was insanely funny, and would explain why Ash has never begun any sort of romantic relationship with a human female. (Accent there being on "human"- I haven't given up hope on Altoshipping yet. I swear, I would go so crazy if only Latias was introduced as at the very least a recurring character. Okay, break's over now.) And yeah, Pikachu being a girl made sense to me- he doesn't really act too "guy-ish" since he was never given a confirmed gender up until D/P. Before that *insert expletive here* Mimiroru showed up, I had a few "make-fun-of-canon-shipping" shipping fics planned, including one involving Ash getting stuck as a Pikachu again, discovering his own Pikachu is in love with him, and basically going nuts, as well as a PikachuXGary's Umbreon fic which involved a whole lot of love letters going back and forth, and explanations for the seeming low intelligence of all main characters. (Pikachu was drugging them in order to make sure that they did not discover her secret love relationship with Umbreon.) It was so sad.... *cries*. And the reason I'm ixnaying the guyXguy Pikashipping is because Yaoi just disturbs me, with one notable exception.

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 04:24 PM

Wait, Ash turned into a Pikachu and discovered Pikachu was physically attracted to him!?

Wow. Never would've thought Pikachu was homosexual.

Ichaste Pekoni

December 27th, 2006, 07:00 PM

...Where's DC when you need him...?

*sigh* Okay. There is so much stuff wrong with this thread that I'm just going to jump in.

Well, you have to remember 4kids owns Pokemon.

LEAVE. NOW. A comment THAT uninformed merits banishment from discussion.

Why doesn't Ash ever capture Pokémon? I mean sure he captured a few but most of them weren't like "Oo I see a *blank* and wanna capture it", they were more like "Hey I came across *blank* and it likes me so I'm gonna capture it" I mean even Misty back in the day if I recall talked about how Ash didn't really capture the Pokémon he had on him which then prompted him to capture his Krabby. Plus when you take in account he has had numerous chances to do so, some of which offered pretty good Pokémon. So if he wants to be a Pokémon Master as he stated a lot back in the day why would he do nothing to really get there, it kind of reminds me of Naruto always talking about being Hokage but in the end doing really nothing to do so.

That's because most of those Pokemon shouldn't be captured. Sometimes it's best to leave them in their natural habitat. It isn't a game, where the creatures don't have "feelings". You don't go out and capture wild animals, just to bring them home as pets. You leave them where they are, because that's where they should be. The Pokemon Ash captures usually WANT to go with him, so he's smart enough to know when to catch and when not to catch.

Why doesn't Ash battle much? Ya he battles Gym Leaders, Frontier Brains and rarely fellow Trainers but mostly he doesn't battle at all, nor does he train his Pokémon in others ways to make up for that fact.

We don't see everyhting that goes on every day. He could have battles with May & Brock daily, for all we know. And what about that training to teach his Pokemon new moves (cite: Volt Tackle & Bullet Seed)? Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist (like the restrooms...).

#2 brings me to another question which is how does Ash win battles? I mean his lack of variety of Pokémon as well as a lack of training for them should mean he doesn't win much but practically every person he faces he beats and if he doesn't beat them the first time he does the second. And add to it that he is incompetent in battling most of the time like using Normal Type Moves against Ghost Types or sticking with a Pokémon even if he has a horrible disadvantage with it because there low on HP or have a Type disadvantage or something else. To me it seems that he wings most of his battles and wins by luck usually just like May does in Contest.

...I'll start with the Normal v. Ghost comment first--the last time he competed against a Ghost-type, I believe, was early-mid Johto, almost two years before his latest match. People forget things. You'd probably forget about something like that, too, if you didn't deal with it for so long.

Now, as for the winning part, his Pokemon are stronger than you apparently think they are. He gets in quite a bit of training, and even though Team Rocket IS pathetically weak, there's still SOME experience there.

And as far as why he focuses on the same ones, what would you prefer, a few level 100s or a bunch of level 50s? The former, of course, and that's basically what Ash gets (if they even USED the level system in the Anime, but that's for an entirely different discussion).

As for side adventures, ya there good but I think the series has become more about the adventure of traveling and not the adventure of training, raising & battling your Pokémon which is what the series is supposed to be about. I mean if it wasn't for May and her Contest we barely see any battles on the show so though she may be an incompetent Coordinator she does give us battles.

Well, no duh. Of course the story's about the travelling. That's where the adventure comes from! After all, if you don't travel, then how are you supposed to see new things?

Most of Ash's Pokémon don't evolve for the very same reasons I gave above which is that he doesn't train them or battle with them much therefore there not gonna get anywhere Level wise yet his unevolved Pokémon always seem to kick the ass of other Pokémon who clearly are greater Level wise.

As for Pokémon who haven't evolved yet, they are: Totodile, Cyndaquil, Bulbasaur and Squirtle. When it comes to the first two they probably haven't evolved because of lack of training, Bulbasaur if you recall chose to stay that way rather than evolve into Ivysaur very early in the series and Squirtle should of evolved though maybe before Ash got him he chose to not evolve on his own as well.

They don't evolve because they A. don't want to, or B. the writers don't want them to. It is NOT a lack of strength. Even at Oak's lab, they're still getting exercise and growing stronger.

I must thank you, though, as your rants have been very fun to read, albeit lacking in the facts department.

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 07:29 PM

LEAVE. NOW. A comment THAT uninformed merits banishment from discussion.
*Scratches Head* Saywha?

That comment wasn't uninformed. 4kids owns Pokemon. That's all you need to know for the rest of my post that you quoted.

Ichaste Pekoni

December 27th, 2006, 08:03 PM

*Scratches Head* Saywha?

That comment wasn't uninformed. 4kids owns Pokemon. That's all you need to know for the rest of my post that you quoted.

I said leave. I meant LEAVE. 4Kids does not "own" Pokemon, nor do they have anything to do with it now.

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 08:06 PM

I said leave. I meant LEAVE. 4Kids does not "own" Pokemon, nor do they have anything to do with it now.
Last I checked, 4kids did the English dubbing of Pokemon. That's what I meant by "owns".

And who are you to tell me to leave? You're not a mod nor an admin. I won't leave unless the creator of this thread, a mod, or an admin tells me to.

And if my information was proven false, I would not have to leave the thread. The most I would have to do is edit my post. And I will not do so until you can find information that proves me to be false.

Poké King

December 27th, 2006, 08:15 PM

Not to mention Ash turned to stone.
Well, it was either that or kill him so because it was for kids he turned to stone.

Wait, Ash turned into a Pikachu and discovered Pikachu was physically attracted to him!?

Wow. Never would've thought Pikachu was homosexual.
LOL

Death Rogers

December 27th, 2006, 09:03 PM

Yeah. If they killed him then the series would be looooooooooong dead.

Poké King

December 28th, 2006, 01:04 AM

That's because most of those Pokemon shouldn't be captured. Sometimes it's best to leave them in their natural habitat. It isn't a game, where the creatures don't have "feelings". You don't go out and capture wild animals, just to bring them home as pets. You leave them where they are, because that's where they should be. The Pokemon Ash captures usually WANT to go with him, so he's smart enough to know when to catch and when not to catch.

Um last I checked the goal is to capture Pokémon whether its in the games or the Anime. And Ash isn't smart in how he catches Pokémon, it doesn't take a genious to say "Hey this Pokémon wants to battle so I will battle it then capture it" lol

We don't see everyhting that goes on every day. He could have battles with May & Brock daily, for all we know. And what about that training to teach his Pokemon new moves (cite: Volt Tackle & Bullet Seed)? Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist (like the restrooms...).
He didn't teach Pikachu Volt Tackle, Pikachu learned it on his own and all Ash did was try to get him better at it. Besides I never said he didn't do any training, I just said he didn't do a lot of training.

...I'll start with the Normal v. Ghost comment first--the last time he competed against a Ghost-type, I believe, was early-mid Johto, almost two years before his latest match. People forget things. You'd probably forget about something like that, too, if you didn't deal with it for so long.
Ya but he wants to be a Pokémon Master and if I wanted to be the best at something I think I wouldn't forget one of the basics. I mean when he started out he didn't even know how to capture a Pokémon and ya he was just starting out but come on.

Now, as for the winning part, his Pokemon are stronger than you apparently think they are. He gets in quite a bit of training, and even though Team Rocket IS pathetically weak, there's still SOME experience there.
Ya but very little and how are they strong I mean they don't participate in many battles nor are trained much.

And as far as why he focuses on the same ones, what would you prefer, a few level 100s or a bunch of level 50s? The former, of course, and that's basically what Ash gets (if they even USED the level system in the Anime, but that's for an entirely different discussion).
Last I checked if he actually trained them right he could have a bunch of Level 100's.

Well, no duh. Of course the story's about the travelling. That's where the adventure comes from! After all, if you don't travel, then how are you supposed to see new things?
Ya but its also about capturing, training and raising Pokémon. And it seems it become more about them walking around and getting into crazy situations then doing any of those three things.

They don't evolve because they A. don't want to, or B. the writers don't want them to. It is NOT a lack of strength. Even at Oak's lab, they're still getting exercise and growing stronger.
Your forgot C they aren't trained hard enough to level up to evolve, you seem to think that isn't a possibility at all.

I must thank you, though, as your rants have been very fun to read, albeit lacking in the facts department.
Funny how you talk about facts when what facts have you given me, all you have given me is possible theories and speculation. The only real facts you listed was that he trained Pikachu to make him good at Volt Tackle and that he trained Treecko to do Bullet Seed but everything else was maybes and could be's like ya he could be battling Brock/Misty but I highly doubt it.

Death Rogers

December 28th, 2006, 02:08 AM

LOL Ichapokemr, you just got proved wrong in everything you said.

And you say I should leave this thread.

Mudkip85

December 28th, 2006, 01:18 PM

We don't see everyhting that goes on every day. He could have battles with May & Brock daily, for all we know. And what about that training to teach his Pokemon new moves (cite: Volt Tackle & Bullet Seed)? Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist (like the restrooms...).

Yeah i have to agreee here, for instance another example of this is when sometimes at the beginning of a show, we see Ash and Pikachu, running together on the beach or on the pavement. Training doesnt necessasarily mean just simply leveling up your pokemon by battling. Training by the running that Ash and Pikachu do together would also increase Pikachu's stamina stats. Ash actually does teach some moves to his pokemon to, take snorunt for example. It couldnt control or learn how to actually perform the attack by itself until Ash taught it to. So although Ash doesnt train intensivley, he does try to get his pokemon to develop and get physically and mentally stronger.

~Kipper~

Poké King

December 28th, 2006, 08:14 PM

Yeah i have to agreee here, for instance another example of this is when sometimes at the beginning of a show, we see Ash and Pikachu, running together on the beach or on the pavement. Training doesnt necessasarily mean just simply leveling up your pokemon by battling. Training by the running that Ash and Pikachu do together would also increase Pikachu's stamina stats. Ash actually does teach some moves to his pokemon to, take snorunt for example. It couldnt control or learn how to actually perform the attack by itself until Ash taught it to. So although Ash doesnt train intensivley, he does try to get his pokemon to develop and get physically and mentally stronger.

~Kipper~
Um there is no Stamina Stat and he never taught Snorunt Ice Beam, he made him get better at it like with Pikachu and Volt Tackle. The only Pokémon of his that I recall he taught anything to was Treecko and Swellow, he taught them Bullet Seed & Aerial Ace. Beyond that all the Moves his Pokémon have known they learned themselves through growing stronger though as I said before I don't see how they grow so strong with the lack of training & battling. And even if running on the beach could be considered training it still wouldn't do that much.

Charaxes

December 28th, 2006, 08:30 PM

Okay! Okay!

Sorry, Ichi, I had a transcription to deal with. Anyway, I read this thread and I will post something after my errands (and I'll re-edit this.)

Actually, I do applaud SBaby and Ichi's POVs, but I do admire you taking a more analytical approach to this, Poke King. However, Ichi is right: the series is trying to make this a real world setting and thus, it's difficult to compensate the fantasy for the reality. Of course, I've thought the same with Ash a long time ago, I did. And then, I realized the anime is going to do whatever it wants and we've seen time and time again the producers not following the game canon, and it leads to a lot of broken expectations.

So, the easiest thing is not to think about it because, then, you realize how much they've dropped the ball. I like the thread, but keep it balanced. I'll post in depth later tonight if I can.

Ichaste Pekoni

December 28th, 2006, 08:58 PM

Last I checked, 4kids did the English dubbing of Pokemon. That's what I meant by "owns".

And who are you to tell me to leave? You're not a mod nor an admin. I won't leave unless the creator of this thread, a mod, or an admin tells me to.

And if my information was proven false, I would not have to leave the thread. The most I would have to do is edit my post. And I will not do so until you can find information that proves me to be false.

...You haven't seen a single episode of the new season, have you? A statement that outdated would have to mean that you've not only missed ALL of Pokemon:Battle Frontier, but also haven't bothered to keep up with what's going on. Somebody that lazy/uncaring & outdated shouldn't be discussing the anime, IMO.

Poke King, the point that you seem to fail to grasp is that we don't see everything that goes on in the show, and the show's mechanics aren't the same as the game's. For instance, Um there is no Stamina Stat stamina might not be a real factor in the game, but it sure is in the anime, since those battles are "real" with creatures that tire out with prolonged work/battling.

Ya but its also about capturing, training and raising Pokémon. And it seems it become more about them walking around and getting into crazy situations then doing any of those three things.

...And how do you find those Pokemon to capture? By travelling, that's how.

Ya but he wants to be a Pokémon Master and if I wanted to be the best at something I think I wouldn't forget one of the basics.

You would if it was something you never had to deal with for about two years.

Your forgot C they aren't trained hard enough to level up to evolve, you seem to think that isn't a possibility at all.

It isn't, because a. evolution isn't based on level in the anime (or else how would TR's Pokemon be able to evolve?), and b. as I mentioned before, the game's level system doesn't exist in the anime.

Funny how you talk about facts when what facts have you given me, all you have given me is possible theories and speculation. The only real facts you listed was that he trained Pikachu to make him good at Volt Tackle and that he trained Treecko to do Bullet Seed but everything else was maybes and could be's like ya he could be battling Brock/Misty but I highly doubt it.

This whole thread is part-speculation...but if you can't trace my facts, then you might want to refresh yourself on the episodes, particularly Chronicles (in "The Legend of Thunder", Jimmy makes a particularly-notable mention on why to NOT capture a Legendary Dog) & Johto. And, considering how the episodes have opened/ended on battles already in progress (most recently when Brock's Mudkip evolved into Marshtomp), there's no doubt that there're battles going on when we can't see them.

EDIT: Oh, DC, I didn't see you there. About time.

Mudkip85

December 28th, 2006, 09:04 PM

Um there is no Stamina Stat

I actually was thinking more about the anime as although there is no actual stamina stat, its only normal for a pokemon to tire out eventually whilst battling. Therefore when i said that when Ash runs with pikachu its a form of training, well its true because it will increase the stamina of a pokemon so it will not tire out quickly in battle.

~Kipper~

jasonresno

December 28th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Um there is no Stamina Stat and he never taught Snorunt Ice Beam, he made him get better at it like with Pikachu and Volt Tackle. The only Pokémon of his that I recall he taught anything to was Treecko and Swellow, he taught them Bullet Seed & Aerial Ace. Beyond that all the Moves his Pokémon have known they learned themselves through growing stronger though as I said before I don't see how they grow so strong with the lack of training & battling. And even if running on the beach could be considered training it still wouldn't do that much.

Ok here goes:

The reason for Ash:

1)Why doesn't he catch more Pokemon?
--He doesn't NEED them. And were he to catch every Poke he sees...not only would it bore the viewer (e.g US!) but he would never be able to use them all and the writers would have difficulty fitting them into the story.

2)Levels/Stats/Evolution
--The anime is NOT the game. There is no such ting as levels or stats or anything like that. Think of the Pokemon like you would a real life animal training..(I.E Running..where there is no Stamina stat...it does help you get fit)

3)Ash makes mistakes.
--OMGZ NO WAIZ!!! Ash can mess up..and it's all by design. He is supposed to be a normal/identifiable character. We all goof up sometimes, so does he.

4)Why doesn't Ash ever train/Why are his Pokes' so strong?
--We only see a little frame his day in each episode. We have NO idea what goes on.

5)Why doesn't his Pokemon evolve?
--They do, just not all of 'em. Maybe he doesn't want them to evolve.

Poké King

December 28th, 2006, 09:51 PM

Poke King, the point that you seem to fail to grasp is that we don't see everything that goes on in the show, and the show's mechanics aren't the same as the game's. For instance, stamina might not be a problem in the game, but it sure is in the anime, since those battles are "real" with creatures that tire out with prolonged work/battling.
So you didn't say I was right because I was, there is no Stamina Stat. As for the Anime of course stamina plays a role in how well Pokémon do in battle. And its because of that I am adding Stamina in my Pokémon game to make it more realistic.

...And how do you find those Pokemon to capture? By travelling, that's how.
Ya you have to travel to get Pokémon but in the 3 Regions Ash has been in he has only captured a handful of Pokémon and ya there may be those 30 Tauros but even if you add them its still not that many Pokémon considering all the Regions he's been in. So ya they travel a lot and that alone should mean he as well as his friends would have more Pokémon or at the very least of battled more.

You would if it was something you never had to deal with for about two years.
Uh no, he wants to be the best . And when you wanna be the best at something or at least good at it you don't forget the basics, it be like an Architect forgetting what a blue print is lol.

It isn't, because a. evolution isn't based on level in the anime (or else how would TR's Pokemon be able to evolve?), and b. as I mentioned before, the game's level system doesn't exist in the anime.
Ya it doesn't exist in the Anime but I still think it take a lot more battles to evolve a Pokémon in the Anime. Which was the point of what I said which was they didn't battle much so it didn't make sense for them to evolve so fast and be so strong.

This whole thread is part-speculation...but if you can't trace my facts, then you might want to refresh yourself on the episodes, particularly Chronicles (in "The Legend of Thunder", Jimmy makes a particularly-notable mention on why to NOT capture a Legendary Dog) & Johto. And, considering how the episodes have opened/ended on battles already in progress (most recently when Brock's Mudkip evolved into Marshtomp), there's no doubt that there're battles going on when we can't see them.
Its not really speculation because everything I have said is based on what has and hasn't happen in the Anime therefore the only real facts we can go by is what happens in the Anime because everything else would be speculation so if anyone is saying facts than I am and if anyone is just saying speculation then you are.

And I vaguely remember that episode but in the end even if Jimmy wanted to capture it he couldn't of because his Pokémon was far too weak. Also ya they open/end on battles which proves that at least one battle happens in between episodes which still isn't enough to get said participating Pokémon so strong besides most of the battles that aren't done at the end of a episode are continued in the next anyways so saying that was kind of pointless.

The reason for Ash:

1)Why doesn't he catch more Pokemon?
--He doesn't NEED them. And were he to catch every Poke he sees...not only would it bore the viewer (e.g US!) but he would never be able to use them all and the writers would have difficulty fitting them into the story.
Really, he doesn't need them. Um last I checked how many times has Ash gotten nailed when battling because he didn't have a good variety of Pokémon luckily for him he gets lucky and the writers make him win somehow. For god's sake he hasn't even captured every Type yet after exploring 3 Regions in 2 years time.

2)Levels/Stats/Evolution
--The anime is NOT the game. There is no such ting as levels or stats or anything like that. Think of the Pokemon like you would a real life animal training..(I.E Running..where there is no Stamina stat...it does help you get fit)
Whether the Anime is like the game is non consequential because either way in the Anime you have to train Pokémon to make them stronger and either way we don't see him do that much.

3)Ash makes mistakes.
--OMGZ NO WAIZ!!! Ash can mess up..and it's all by design. He is supposed to be a normal/identifiable character. We all goof up sometimes, so does he.
Messing up is forgeting a Move a Pokémon may be able to do. Not forgetting an Electric Type Move doesn't effect a Ground Type or forgetting a Normal Type Move doesn't effect a Ghost Type. Thats called incompetent and if he is supposed to reflect us then the writers must not think we are that competent.

4)Why doesn't Ash ever train/Why are his Pokes' so strong?
--We only see a little frame his day in each episode. We have NO idea what goes on.
Ya but as I said I am going by what is seen in the Anime not the stuff we haven't seen because that is speculation besides from what I have seen in the Anime Ash isn't to concerned about training really so how can I as well as all of you expect him to be that way in what we don't see.

5)Why doesn't his Pokemon evolve?
--They do, just not all of 'em. Maybe he doesn't want them to evolve.
Never actually said they don't evolve, guess you like putting words in my mouth.

In summation lol I AM GOING BY WHAT THE ANIME SHOWS US so by that what I said makes senes, apparently you all who disagree like to imagine what happens outside of the Anime a lot and apparently in your imagination Ash is a dedicated bad ass Trainer lol.

Ichaste Pekoni

December 28th, 2006, 10:04 PM

Its not really speculation because everything I have said is based on what has and hasn't happen in the Anime therefore the only real facts we can go by is what happens in the Anime because everything else would be speculation so if anyone is saying facts than I am and if anyone is just saying speculation then you are.

And I vaguely remember that episode but in the end even if Jimmy wanted to capture it he couldn't of because his Pokémon was far too weak. Also ya they open/end on battles which proves that at least one battle happens in between episodes which still isn't enough to get said participating Pokémon so strong besides most of the battles that aren't done at the end of a episode are continued in the next anyways so saying that was kind of pointless.

(bolded for emphasis)

OKAY, NOW I SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING. You just wanted to try to start an argument, and are too self-centered to accept what anyone else says. Uh-huh, just like what I've seen so many times before in those best described as scum.

I'm done trying to talk with you. If you're not willing to accept what others have to say then you shouldn't have bothered to post the thread.

Mudkip85

December 28th, 2006, 10:08 PM

1)Why doesn't he catch more Pokemon?
--He doesn't NEED them. And were he to catch every Poke he sees...not only would it bore the viewer (e.g US!) but he would never be able to use them all and the writers would have difficulty fitting them into the story.

Well i wouldnt say he doesnt need them, as variety is always good to have, but you have to bare in mind its better to have only a handful of pokemon which have been well trained and who have developed a close friendship with its trainer than having many pokemon who you have not had the time to train all of them to a satisfactory level with good moves.

I have to agree on the fact though that it would be hard for the writers to come up with many storyparts if Ash was to go out and catch every pokemon he saw. If this was to be the case we would see each of his pokemon for a couple of episodes and not see the same pokemon again in about a season or two, so yes Ash catching every pokemon he met would be a problem. Lets also not forget about the storyparts for other pokemon trainers like Brock and Mays Pokemon Contests.

~Kipper~

Poké King

December 28th, 2006, 10:11 PM

OKAY, NOW I SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING. You just wanted to try to start an argument, and are too self-centered to accept what anyone else says. Uh-huh, just like what I've seen so many times before in those best described as scum.

I'm done trying to talk with you. If you're not willing to accept what others have to say then you shouldn't have bothered to post the thread.
Actually I wasn't trying to start an argument and I think we have yet to get to that point. And I am willing to except what others say but you don't seem to except what I say, I mean all I have done is state what you, me and everyone else has seen in the Anime, your the one who keeps saying I'm wrong in some way. If you were right hey I be the first to say that you are and so stupid me or something of that nature for being wrong but all you have offered is speculation. All this thread really should of been about was how Ash isn't the best Trainer as we see him on the Anime but you made it into something far more by going into what he does outside of the Anime as if its fact which its not, its a guess and not even an educated one. I say that because how Ash acts in the Anime is how he act outside of it and by that he wouldn't be training his Pokémon or battling that much.

But hey lets all be friends, I mean I think we all can agree Ash isn't the best Trainer and the point of this thread was to reflect upon that.

Mudkip85

December 28th, 2006, 10:21 PM

Let me just start by saying that this is an excellent disscussion that is going on here and im sure that we all consider other people views whether we agree or disagree with them but we also naturally have our own opinions. Lets just keep our cool and disscuss things in a mature mannor. Noone intends to pick an arguement here but it happens when views differ Just remember that at the end of the day we are here to have fun.

And Poke King i think we all can say that Ash is not the best trainer in the anime but he has his qualities too.

~Kipper~

jasonresno

December 28th, 2006, 10:22 PM

Poké King

December 28th, 2006, 10:51 PM

And by the way, PokeKing--I wasn't even addressing you at all when I answered those "mock" questions.

And the fact that you are wishy-washy on the point you are trying to make, makes this debate not worth my time.
Well, you quoted me so I assumed. And where am I wish washy, I'm saying he isn't a good trainer and backing it up with facts.

Also this never was supposed to be a debate really, this was just supposed to be a discussion on Ash's training skills or rather lack there of but hey if you wanna leave because you thought he was a good trainer or something and you been proven wrong then hey go right ahead. :D

羨望

December 28th, 2006, 11:30 PM

Poké King

December 28th, 2006, 11:55 PM

I find what you said funny but I found it even funnier that you had to hide it so not to offend, I mean come on now are fans of him that sensitive.

Death Rogers

December 29th, 2006, 12:20 AM

...You haven't seen a single episode of the new season, have you? A statement that outdated would have to mean that you've not only missed ALL of Pokemon:Battle Frontier, but also haven't bothered to keep up with what's going on. Somebody that lazy/uncaring & outdated shouldn't be discussing the anime, IMO.
I can discuss the Anime. This thread is not about 4kids. This is about Ash. Which I am well informed about. If you say 4kids no longer has anything to do with it, that doesn't mean you can tell me I have to leave. I will willingly edit my post if you can find information that proves me wrong.

Mudkip85

December 29th, 2006, 03:34 AM

Finaly,someone who thinks that ash its just a clumsy character,I have only have to say this that may be offensive to ash fans so if you are try to not read it.

Ash is just a stupid remake of Red R/B/Y Red character that only do is win Gym Leaders at battles hooray but when goes to the league he looses at that semifinal match,Oh i won Orange League and Battle frontier but now i go shinou win my badges and losing again at the league.Come on other than that the writers put him with girls of the generations,Oh im with may,Now im with hikari horray.And the fact that he is with the generations girls the writers are making him gay with his stupid rival Gary how stupid and repeative you think that is.Now to the point some people loved some people hated him and im sorry to said that ash is stupid gay looser.Come on writers make this guy master whateaver end his show and create new show with a new main character and i now you may hated but people are opening there minds and geting sick of it don,t tell me you hated the anime don't watch it i don't wach it and if you think you right that the anime i successful with ash then check the ratings not very sucesful are we and check the first season rating successful in that time was world international hit but people are geting sick of it and if im wrong i hope you got guts because i don't think you have a army of people now maybe 1998s but here i no think so,The anime needs a new main character.
Sorry for a rude speech but when i mad i of something i get like this.

Okay as we have already stated in this thread, Ash may not be the best trainer there is, but he has at least one two major leagues. You also have to bare in mind that if he was just made to win everything by the writers, people would get very bored extremley quickly and would refrain from watching the shows. It also adds a bit of drama to the show and shows that you can never win everything. If the company dare i say it get rid of Ash and introduce a new main character to the show, they would be taking a huge risk a people might watch the first couple of episodes and decide that the new character is worse, then there would be no turning back! We have had about 12 seasons so far of the anime and it would be very pointless to just loose everything the company has created with Ash. Ash's dismisal would also mean the dismisal of the 'signature' of the show pikachu, and im sure that everyone would be annoyed to see him go. Sure the ratings are low now, but as diamond and pearl episodes are released in the U.S and the U.K, and every other country for that matter that hosts pokemon, they are almost certain to get back up.

~Kipper~

Charaxes

December 29th, 2006, 04:07 AM

I'm just going to post.

This is a good discussion, just don't get it out of hand. Everything has been said nicely except one thing that I think some missed is "people can't get certain Pokemon or certain people can't get it." Like with the Legendaries, the certain ones aren't meant to be tamed. Mewtwo with Giovanni was an exception because of Mewtwo's negative connotations and origins made it a perfect fit to be a bio-weapon for the Rockets. Now, of course, the producers finally let go of that edict with the Brains.

Anymore, with a certain Pokemon, you think "that's so a certain character", you think they should have it. But that can lead to predictability and the series has that constant problem -- besides the recycling -- hence, why they're going willy-nilly. They've improved on this, but it's a problem.

That, and remember at the beginning of the series, Ash had great ambitions, but he then began to think a little smaller and more realistic as we've seen the "got to have your cake and eat it, too" types like Team Rocket on a daily basis, plus Indigo rather humbled him. Ash isn't a conquer-the-world type like say Gary, just only his corner of it. He is more accepting of his hand in life. It doesn't mean he doesn't push himself, but it means the reach doesn't exceed his grasp. I think that's right.

Other that that, there are lots of off-camera issues as lchi alluded to, like with Misty's intro in Hoenn for example. Dogasu summed it nicely.

The problem I have with the episode is that there are huge gaps in the plot that we're forced to fill in with our imaginations. So suddenly Satoshi has been keeping up with Kasumi (via telephone, I'd guess) even though he hasn't really mentioned her once in the past 43 episodes? And why are Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu working for this guy named Hanzou?

Or how Team Aqua had Groudon or Magma Kyorge in the Groudon v. Kyorge two-parter for another one?

Yep.

Poké King

December 29th, 2006, 04:07 AM

Okay as we have already stated in this thread, Ash may not be the best trainer there is, but he has at least one two major leagues. You also have to bare in mind that if he was just made to win everything by the writers, people would get very bored extremley quickly and would refrain from watching the shows. It also adds a bit of drama to the show and shows that you can never win everything. If the company dare i say it get rid of Ash and introduce a new main character to the show, they would be taking a huge risk a people might watch the first couple of episodes and decide that the new character is worse, then there would be no turning back! We have had about 12 seasons so far of the anime and it would be very pointless to just loose everything the company has created with Ash. Ash's dismisal would also mean the dismisal of the 'signature' of the show pikachu, and im sure that everyone would be annoyed to see him go. Sure the ratings are low now, but as diamond and pearl episodes are released in the U.S and the U.K, and every other country for that matter that hosts pokemon, they are almost certain to get back up.

~Kipper~
Ya even I would say don't get rid of Ash but as for him not winning all the time, well he does pretty much. Course if they ever were to get rid of Ash I think the best way would be to have him meet the character who take over as the main character and have him in the Anime with Ash as one of his gang then as the show goes on it focus more on that character and less on Ash then eventually Ash leave to go home or something then that character take over though I guess this is a discussion for somewhere else lol but hey if they did it that way it probably work because we become attached to the character long before they had to hold the show together on there own.

Ash isn't a conquer-the-world type like say Gary.....
Or how Team Aqua had Groudon or Magma Kyorge in the Groudon v. Kyorge two-parter for another one?

Yep.
Well, Gary has stopped being that way as seen by the fact he became a researcher and no longer goes after being the best Trainer. And ya why was there never a episode showing them capture those legendaries, it would of been nice to see just how they managed that.

Mudkip85

December 29th, 2006, 04:22 AM

Ya even I would say don't get rid of Ash but as for him not winning all the time, well he does pretty much. Course if they ever were to get rid of Ash I think the best way would be to have him meet the character who take over as the main character and have him in the Anime with Ash as one of his gang then as the show goes on it focus more on that character and less on Ash then eventually Ash leave to go home or something then that character take over though I guess this is a discussion for somewhere else lol but hey if they did it that way it probably work because we become attached to the character long before they had to hold the show together on there own.

I guess that could be a nice way to slowly move him out of the anime. Maybe a 'relative' of Ash could take the main charater slot like his cousin or something. However i just dont think they are ready yet to let him go.

~Kipper~

Poké King

December 29th, 2006, 04:35 AM

I guess that could be a nice way to slowly move him out of the anime. Maybe a 'relative' of Ash could take the main charater slot like his cousin or something. However i just dont think they are ready yet to let him go.

~Kipper~
I think it probably be the only and best way to do it because I think a sudden change would polarize fans, like when Pokémon Chronicles came out I thought it was about Jimmy and was a bit reluctant but then I realized its just a bunch of random shows about already existing characters except for Jimmy, his crew and a few others of course.

ChrisG14

December 29th, 2006, 05:11 AM

I'm not really debating with anyone, but I need to prove something

I can discuss the Anime. This thread is not about 4kids. This is about Ash. Which I am well informed about. If you say 4kids no longer has anything to do with it, that doesn't mean you can tell me I have to leave. I will willingly edit my post if you can find information that proves me wrong.

From Wikipedia:

The English adaptation of the series was produced by 4Kids Entertainment (for eight seasons), with video distribution of the series was handled by Viz for the TV series for the younger generation as well as the eighth movie forward, Kids WB! and Nintendo for the first three movies and the first special, Miramax Films, and Buena Vista Home Entertainment for the fourth movie through the seventh. The series and all feature films are directed by Kunihiko Yuyama, with English adaptations originally written by Norman Grossfeld and Michael Haigney. However, starting with the ninth season, the American branch of The Pokémon Company, Pokémon USA, replaced 4Kids as the show producers and distributors outside of Japan, and the program has a new voice cast.

Yeah... Domo Arigato :tired:

Miss Reyna

December 29th, 2006, 05:17 AM

I don't want to start any arguements. I just want to say some of my views and hope that you will consider them and understand.

As in the evolution fact I will use my fave type. The fire type pokemon that Ash has gain.

In reality Ash's charmander shouldn't have evole if you consider what they show in the show. The charmander is cute and sweet in the anime but never really had any real battle experience before it evole into a charmeleon. Then when it became a charizard you see that it didn't even battle much less leave its pokeball. How could it evole you ask? Then look at Ash's fire type during Johto, Qyndaquil. That little fire pokemon has been in many tough battles under Ash's adventures in Johto. It battle singlehandly against a well trainer Scyter and Steelix plus many more powerful pokemon like a Skarmory and others. If you just add up all those battles it appeared more times then Charmander and thus gaining a lots experience and that could be tell in the battle against Jasmine's Steelix. Now that is looking at the evolution question from your angle about just what we are shown in the anime.

The angle that I am viewing and mostly everybody else is seeing is that Ash's pokemon choose when they want to evolve. It not done by experience or something like that. They evolve after a major battle or something that could result in lots of valueable experience which is the only way experience can be involve with this at all. For some reason Cyndaquil doesn't want to evolve along with Squirtle and other of Ash's pokemon that hasn't evolve. They not weak or inexperience but they just like how things are.

I know you like to hear things from just what is shown in the anime but you have to consider what they don't show. I mean the annoucner says some times that Ash is taking a break from training or is in the middle of training. Also the creators are trying to make an intresting show and they don't want to have a whole episode just where Ash is training so we get these fillers that show Ash getting inturpted from training or something. Ash isn't the best but he is good. That what makes him an intresting character and keeps the show going. They don't want to show a whole episode where Ash is training because we and they know that it will be boring.

The best way I can see the Pokemon anime is like the play MacBeth or Julius Caesar. If you have ever read those plays you notice that things happen behind the scenes. In MavBeth, Lady MacBeth suffers from guilt from killing the king and for a long while she suffer from sleep walking and talking. Thoughout the whole play the auidence or the reader only see this sleep act once but you are told by the servents that Lady MacBeth has been doing that for many night and even weeks if I remember right. In Julius Caesar, right after the death of Caesar the acts after that it is just war scenes. They make no mention of war or anything. We are just sent right into war zone and is told that most of the people who were involve in the act of killing Caesar are dead or something. As you can see a lots of things happen behind the scenes and the reader don't get to see it. That is exactally how the Pokemon anime is. We don't see Ash training his pokemon but we know that he is at some point. We only get to see the important parts of Ash and friends day. A good episode example that I suggest you see would be is Time-Warp Heals All Wounds. You see that Ash spent most of the day training with Pikachu an his other pokemon but we only see one scene at night where Pikachu used Volt Tackle to cut though a rock. There are a lot of behind the scene things that we as the viewer don't see. We have to assume that things like that happen by what we are told.

One thing I want answer is how can a ghost attack effect a normal type pokemon in the anime and in the game a ghost attack can't effect a normal type. Just something that been in my mind lately.

I not sure if that made any sense but when it comes to the anime we have basically fill in the blanks between things. I mean days could pass between episodes. One day they could gain a new pokemon and then days later we see another episode and an egg just hatch. Also you got to consider that this is just a show based on a video game where the creators are trying to make a realistic view point of the game while still making an entertaining show.

kasumi_grl

December 29th, 2006, 05:32 AM

When I think of Pokemon, I think of Ash. The first time I watched the show, I was babysitting and I was instantly drawn to this character who would just not give up or stop believing in his dreams. Getting rid of Ash would spell death sentence for the series. Sometimes behind the scenes things work. Sometimes they don't and that sseems to be the case more than not for Pokemon.

-Don't double post. It makes Pichus cry.

-DC

Charaxes

December 29th, 2006, 05:35 AM

The best way I can see the Pokemon anime is like the play MacBeth or Julius Caesar. If you have ever read those plays you notice that things happen behind the scenes. In MavBeth, Lady MacBeth suffers from guilt from killing the king and for a long while she sufer from sleep walking and talking. Thoughout the whole play the auidence or the reader only see this sleep act once but you are told by the servents that Lady MacBeth has been doing that for many night and even weeks if I remember right. In Julius Caesar, right after the death of Caesar the acts after that it is just war scenes. They make no mention of war or anything. We are just sent right into war zone and is told that most of the people who were involve in the act of killing Caesar are dead or something. As you can see a lots of things happen behind the scenes and the reader don't get to see it. That is exactally how the Pokemon anime is.

One thing I want answer is how can a ghost attack effect a normal type pokemon in the anime and in the game a ghost attack can't effect a normal type. Just something that been in my mind lately.

I couldn't have said it better and sums it all up nicely. It's funny you chose MacBeth and Caesar, as I'm an Othello fan myself. I think it's Shakespeare's best, personally. Some episodes definitely require exposition and that's what Chronicles' original intention was about, and some, like the movies, you have to draw your own.

I think the thing is, Ash is supposed to be a representative of the player, and clearly, everyone has their different styles and approach, as shown by the characters of the day. Unfortunately, that's the by-product of making the "player" character a character -- he develops a life onto his own. He won't be the icon like Mario or Link with their own lives, but there is something there.

Anyway, as for the Ghost/Normal dealy, don't forget his most recent showdown with Agatha in "Scheme Team". As Agatha wonderfully chided to Ash, "How could you miss that?" Indeed.

Poké King

December 29th, 2006, 05:41 AM

I couldn't have said it better and sums it all up nicely.
Ya she went over it pretty good and I always did consider that there was behind the scenes action and that obviously the Anime does it differently than the game, my whole point on this was how Ash was not that good of a Trainer. It just happen to show that I had to get his poor Pokémon involved lol. But in the end we can only go by what are 2 eyes see and from what we all see its safe to say the Anime does it very differently which often will cause threads like mine to pop up.

-Don't double post. It makes Pichus cry.

-DC
LOL, now don't you all go making any Pichu's cry or else they'll evolve into Pikachu's one day and zap your butts good. :P

Charaxes

December 29th, 2006, 06:07 AM

Ya she went over it pretty good and I always did consider that there was behind the scenes action and that obviously the Anime does it differently than the game, my whole point on this was how Ash was not that good of a Trainer. It just happen to show that I had to get his poor Pokémon involved lol. But in the end we can only go by what are 2 eyes see and from what we all see its safe to say the Anime does it very differently which often will cause threads like mine to pop up.

Spectulation is needed, but even so, there are times where you have to question. I certainly did with the beginning of Advanced Battle with the writing. Other than that, I always say, "it's a TV show, so you really should just relax."

Be different if the anime was something Joss Whedon wrote, then, whoa...

Still, can't complain.

Mudkip85

December 29th, 2006, 01:13 PM

As in the evolution fact I will use my fave type. The fire type pokemon that Ash has gain.

In reality Ash's charmander shouldn't have evole if you consider what they show in the show. The charmander is cute and sweet in the anime but never really had any real battle experience before it evole into a charmeleon. Then when it became a charizard you see that it didn't even battle much less leave its pokeball. How could it evole you ask? Then look at Ash's fire type during Johto, Qyndaquil. That little fire pokemon has been in many tough battles under Ash's adventures in Johto. It battle singlehandly against a well trainer Scyter and Steelix plus many more powerful pokemon like a Skarmory and others. If you just add up all those battles it appeared more times then Charmander and thus gaining a lots experience and that could be tell in the battle against Jasmine's Steelix. Now that is looking at the evolution question from your angle about just what we are shown in the anime.

The angle that I am viewing and mostly everybody else is seeing is that Ash's pokemon choose when they want to evolve. It not done by experience or something like that. They evolve after a major battle or something that could result in lots of valueable experience which is the only way experience can be involve with this at all. For some reason Cyndaquil doesn't want to evolve along with Squirtle and other of Ash's pokemon that hasn't evolve. They not weak or inexperience but they just like how things are.

This part of your post really made me realize how correct you are. Cyndaquil faced many tough battles with Ash during its journey through johto and yet still did not evolve into Quiliva. However i do have one suggestion to make. When a pokemon evolves does it loose parts of the relationship it has with its trainer? I mean lets take charmander evolving into charmeleon as you mentioned. Ash's charmander was loving and very loyal to its trainer, and did everything it could to help Ash progress through Kanto. However when it evolved into a charmeleon, it developed a lack of respect for Ash and disobeyed every command it was given, and also when it became a charizard it got worse. I know eventually, charizard developed respect for Ash but they went through some tough times to get there.

So could this be a reason as to why Ash's pokemon may choose not to evolve, because they are afraid to loose the relationship they have between eachother?

~Kipper~

Poké King

December 29th, 2006, 01:37 PM

When a pokemon evolves does it loose parts of the relationship it has with its trainer? I mean lets take charmander evolving into charmeleon as you mentioned. Ash's charmander was loving and very loyal to its trainer, and did everything it could to help Ash progress through Kanto. However when it evolved into a charmeleon, it developed a lack of respect for Ash and disobeyed every command it was given, and also when it became a charizard it got worse. I know eventually, charizard developed respect for Ash but they went through some tough times to get there.

So could this be a reason as to why Ash's pokemon may choose not to evolve, because they are afraid to loose the relationship they have between eachother?

~Kipper~
Well, in the Anime it has been brought up here and there that when a Pokémon evolves because it evolves into a totally new being it often will develop a totally different personality therefore act different though this doesn't always happen obviously as seen with Ash's Chikorita. So because of this when Charmander evolved it went from caring to plain disrepectful as Charmeleon. Another good example of this is Brock's Lotad, it starts off nice & caring then evolved into Lombre becoming very relaxed and a bit lazy-ish then evolved into Ludicolo and became the life of the party.

Does the evolving of a Pokémon change there relationship with there Trainer, its a bit of a yes and no answer because even if a Pokémon's personality changes they can still like there Trainer just as much as before they evolved but at the same time when a Pokémon evolves it becomes a new person therefore there relationship is bound to change with there Trainer. A perfect example is when you were a kid you and your parents relationship was different but when you grow up (i.e. Pokémon evolving) you changed so you & your parents relationship changed somewhat or severly depending on how much you & they changed over time. So maybe its not a yes & no answer and its simply yes Pokémon evolving can change there relationship with there Trainer though it doesn't always happen.

As for that being the reason they don't evolve, I don't think so as it may be just about not wanting to change like how Bulbasaur and Pikachu didn't want to evolve when the opportunity presented itself because they wanted to stay who they were. I mean you do have to realize when you ask a Pokémon to evolve its like someone one day asking you to change into a 30 year old and obviously you probably wouldn't want to do that as you want to enjoy being a kid or whatever.

Mudkip85

December 29th, 2006, 02:09 PM

Well, in the Anime it has been brought up here and there that when a Pokémon evolves because it evolves into a totally new being it often will develop a totally different personality therefore act different though this doesn't always happen obviously as seen with Ash's Chikorita. So because of this when Charmander evolved it went from caring to plain disrepectful as Charmeleon.

I understand totally where you are coming from when you say that pokemon want to stay as they are because they like who they are and would not want to risk the loss of the relationship they have with their trainer, but if thats the case i have to ask why on earth did charmander evolve? I mean it had everything going for it, it respected its trainer and its trainer respected it and they had a great powerful relationship. So why would it choose the risk of loosing all this by evolving. I have one sort of theory which could potentially answer this. Do you remember the first episode when we saw and met charmander where it was abandoned by its trainer and left weak and hurt in the rain, in a terrible condition and Ash came and rescued it? Well i think the only possible explanation why charmander evolved was to ever prevent this from happenning again, as by evolving it would become physically stronger so it could protect itself if anything like that were to have happened again. This way charmander who became charmeleon, although loosing its relationship and trust with Ash, was now able to protect itself, if any harm were to come to it. I think that my explanation also provides a strong arguement as to why it quickly evolved to charizard soon after its evoltion to charmeleon.

~Kipper~

Poké King

December 29th, 2006, 02:24 PM

but if thats the case i have to ask why on earth did charmander evolve? I mean it had everything going for it, it respected its trainer and its trainer respected it and they had a great powerful relationship. So why would it choose the risk of loosing all this by evolving. I have one sort of theory which could potentially answer this. Do you remember the first episode when we saw and met charmander where it was abandoned by its trainer and left weak and hurt in the rain, in a terrible condition and Ash came and rescued it? Well i think the only possible explanation why charmander evolved was to ever prevent this from happenning again, as by evolving it would become physically stronger so it could protect itself if anything like that were to have happened again. This way charmander who became charmeleon, although loosing its relationship and trust with Ash, was now able to protect itself, if any harm were to come to it. I think that my explanation also provides a strong arguement as to why it quickly evolved to charizard soon after its evoltion to charmeleon.

~Kipper~
Well, Pokémon can't always determine when the will evolve just like you can't determine how you will change in 10 years. Like in the Anime there have been cases of Pokémon sensing there going to evolve and begin to act differently as a result, now maybe some can stop themselves from changing and maybe some can't as seen by Ash's Bulbasaur who stopped itself from becoming Ivysaur. Besides maybe Charmander thought he wouldn't change and maybe he evolved because he wanted to be stronger for Ash as his previous Trainer abandoned him because he deemed him weak therefore didn't want Ash to do the same then when he did evolve maybe he thought I did all this for him, I changed my entire self for him and inturn grew to resent Ash therefore reacted the way he did as Charmeleon. And when he evolved into Charizard it may have had more to do with becoming stronger to beat Aerodactly but luckily in time Charizard figured out that Ash trully cared about him and would never leave him at least in terms of general abandonment because as we know Ash did leave Charizard in Charicific Valley though Charizard understood why Ash did so because Ash wanted him to become stronger and as he wanted to be stronger for Ash he stayed plus getting his butt kicked by one of the Charizard's there made him want to get stronger to.

Well, didn't I go a little deep into Charmander's psyche lol. :P

Ichaste Pekoni

December 29th, 2006, 02:57 PM

I'm not really debating with anyone, but I need to prove something

From Wikipedia:

The English adaptation of the series was produced by 4Kids Entertainment (for eight seasons), with video distribution of the series was handled by Viz for the TV series for the younger generation as well as the eighth movie forward, Kids WB! and Nintendo for the first three movies and the first special, Miramax Films, and Buena Vista Home Entertainment for the fourth movie through the seventh. The series and all feature films are directed by Kunihiko Yuyama, with English adaptations originally written by Norman Grossfeld and Michael Haigney. However, starting with the ninth season, the American branch of The Pokémon Company, Pokémon USA, replaced 4Kids as the show producers and distributors outside of Japan, and the program has a new voice cast.

Yeah... Domo Arigato :tired:

Thank you. There you go, darth robert (or whatever your name was).

This part of your post really made me realize how correct you are. Cyndaquil faced many tough battles with Ash during its journey through johto and yet still did not evolve into Quiliva. However i do have one suggestion to make. When a pokemon evolves does it loose parts of the relationship it has with its trainer? I mean lets take charmander evolving into charmeleon as you mentioned. Ash's charmander was loving and very loyal to its trainer, and did everything it could to help Ash progress through Kanto. However when it evolved into a charmeleon, it developed a lack of respect for Ash and disobeyed every command it was given, and also when it became a charizard it got worse. I know eventually, charizard developed respect for Ash but they went through some tough times to get there.

Well, that's an interesting idea...but I think it has more to do with how Charmander was..."preowned" when Ash caught him. After all, we've had some of Ash's other Pokemon evolve and stay the same personality-wise (Bayleef, Donphan, Sceptile)...or perhaps it was just a freak accident. Or maybe Charmander had a rebellious Nature that didn't manafest itself until it evolved :).

AC Coda X

December 29th, 2006, 03:08 PM

Umm.... this was a fun discussion, but now I'm just a little bit sick. Jeez, I don't even follow the anime for the most part, and yet I'm sick. Okay, let's start things off congratulating the brilliant.
Okay as we have already stated in this thread, Ash may not be the best trainer there is, but he has at least one two major leagues. You also have to bare in mind that if he was just made to win everything by the writers, people would get very bored extremley quickly and would refrain from watching the shows. It also adds a bit of drama to the show and shows that you can never win everything. If the company dare i say it get rid of Ash and introduce a new main character to the show, they would be taking a huge risk a people might watch the first couple of episodes and decide that the new character is worse, then there would be no turning back! We have had about 12 seasons so far of the anime and it would be very pointless to just loose everything the company has created with Ash. Ash's dismisal would also mean the dismisal of the 'signature' of the show pikachu, and im sure that everyone would be annoyed to see him go. Sure the ratings are low now, but as diamond and pearl episodes are released in the U.S and the U.K, and every other country for that matter that hosts pokemon, they are almost certain to get back up.

Hear, hear. D/P is probably an attempt to change the series a bit, I think, since Ash seems more like a "side character" than a main character to me- but I've only seen one D/P episode in its entirety, so what would I know? (Sorry, just being random here.)

Ren-Kun: You nutcase. Do not insinuate that Ash is gay. Give me one shred of conclusive evidence, and then say that he and Gary are gay. Ash is, in my eyes, fairly obviously heterosexual, though he might possibly suffer from an odd mental condition that causes him to be attracted to female Pokemon. (I'm not sure at all about the last one, I just entertain the idea because it helps me enjoy the series.)

Poke_King: I believe I have the answer as to why Ash does not catch all of the Pokemon he encounters. It is stated in the Japanese version, in the episode where Charmander is caught to be precise, that Ash only wants to capture rare or unusual Pokemon. All others are sort of "bonus catches", and I believe are usually caught by Ash because they want to be. Also, in the series it is shown, but never stated outright, I believe, that while Gary's team is more balanced because of his constant switching of Pokemon in order to give them all equal battling experience, Ash's team has a much deeper bond with their trainer because of the time they spend together. "Oaking" all of his Pokemon is only done for change of season purposes, and is slightly out of character for Ash. (At least with Johto they gave an explanation as to why some of his Pokemon left the team. In Hoenn, it was just Ash being a dingus. It annoys me that he is, but I can live with it.)

Mudkip85

December 29th, 2006, 05:33 PM

Okay, let's start things off congratulating the brilliant.

Well what can i say thanks for the compliment XD.

Ren-Kun: You nutcase. Do not insinuate that Ash is gay. Give me one shred of conclusive evidence, and then say that he and Gary are gay. Ash is, in my eyes, fairly obviously heterosexual, though he might possibly suffer from an odd mental condition that causes him to be attracted to female Pokemon. (I'm not sure at all about the last one, I just entertain the idea because it helps me enjoy the series.)

Ren-Kun, i have to say your original post of direct critisiscm and abuse to Ash was slightly out of line. Although it may be your view of him, you must give valid reasons as to why you have those specific views of him.

Poke_King: Ash's team has a much deeper bond with their trainer because of the time they spend together. "Oaking" all of his Pokemon is only done for change of season purposes, and is slightly out of character for Ash.

I agree with you Ash certainly has a deeper closer bond with his pokemon than any other trainer in the anime, and it is this what makes him overcome those hard challenges. As for 'Oaking' his pokemon to give change at the beginning of each of the seasons new beginnings, i think its a great idea. Especially now that he has gone to Sinnoh and only has pikachu and aipom with him. It's going to be interesting to see how he forms his new team in this region.

~Kipper

Poké King

December 29th, 2006, 07:06 PM

Poke_King: I believe I have the answer as to why Ash does not catch all of the Pokemon he encounters. It is stated in the Japanese version, in the episode where Charmander is caught to be precise, that Ash only wants to capture rare or unusual Pokemon. All others are sort of "bonus catches", and I believe are usually caught by Ash because they want to be.
So the reason he doesn't capture Pokémon a lot is because he only wants to capture rare and unusual Pokémon. Lets review his Pokémon and see the levity of that statement:

(Note: I only included Pokémon he actually captured so no Pikachu or any of the others he didn't capture and used. Not that any of them were really rare or unusual either)

Aipom
Mukjuru
Naetle
Bulbasaur
Krabby
Muk
Tauros
Snorlax
Heracross
Chikorita
Cyndaquil
Totodile
Noctowl
Phanpy
Taillow
Treecko
Corphish
Torkoal
Snorunt
Charmander
Squirtle
Caterpie
Pidgeotto
Mankey

Now I was gonna do a blurb for all of them but I had to keep copying and pasting not rare and not unusual so I decided not to lol. Of those Pokémon the only one that really stands out as rare and/or unusual is Snorlax, the rest are relatively common.

So if the only reason he captures Pokémon is because there rare and/or unusual then how does Ash have any Pokémon lol.

AC Coda X

December 30th, 2006, 02:48 PM

Umm.. dude. More then half of these are rare and unusual. Let's start:

Starter Pokemon (all): No dip they're rare! Gamewise, you can't even find them in the wild, and the characters in the anime are lucky for even getting to see a wild one, let alone catch it!

Tauros: They are so annoying... in the games you can never catch them. That makes them rare.

Noctowl: SHINY! SHINY YOU DOPE!

Phanphy: It hatched from an egg Ash got from an old couple, so he never even really caught this one- besides, it's a Donphan now.

Mankey: It attacked him. Need I say more?

Torkoal: Fairly uncommon in the games.

Pidgeotto: Ash caught this in the early episodes, before he stated that he only wanted rare or unusual Pokemon.

Corphish: Caught because it attacked Ash, and he decided he wanted a Pokemon with that type of strength for his team.

Heracross: Fairly uncommon in the G/S/C games, which were the latest ones in the season that Heracross was caught.

Mukkuru: Caught because Aipom attacked it.

Aipom: Caught because it wanted to come with Ash... and it is a bit unusual.

Snorunt: Rare In-Game Pokemon.

Tailow: Caught because it would have been seriously injured if Ash had allowed it to continue battling Pikachu.

Snorlax: There are only two catchable ones in the game (One in G/S/C). No dip it's rare!

So there you have it- my reply to yours. And anyway, since in the original Japanese Ash himself is the one who states that he only wants rare or unusual Pokemon, you don't need to check the levity of my statement, unless of course you want to argue with Ash.

Mudkip85

December 30th, 2006, 03:43 PM

Umm.. dude. More then half of these are rare and unusual. Let's start:Tauros: They are so annoying... in the games you can never catch them. That makes them rare.

You have raised many valid points as to why Ash's pokemon may be seen as rare or unusual, but you are forgetting one major thing this conversation is relating to the anime not the games, therefore you could not compare the rarity of the pokemon form the games to the anime as it does not correspond. Example you said Tauros were extremley rare and hard to capture in the games, but as we are relaitng to the anime, you can not really say they are rare or even hard to capture as Ash managed to capture 30 of them, so therefore tauros wouldnt be seen to be something special.

Mankey: It attacked him. Need I say more?

I dont see how that makes it rare or unusual as mankeys are known for there bad tempered nature.

Torkoal: Fairly uncommon in the games.

Again you are refering to the games which does not relate to the conversation as we are talking about the anime.

Heracross: Fairly uncommon in the G/S/C games, which were the latest ones in the season that Heracross was caught.

Once again refering to the games!

Aipom: Caught because it wanted to come with Ash... and it is a bit unusual.

Many of Ash's pokemon have wanted to come with him so i dont see how it makes them rare or unusual.

Snorunt: Rare In-Game Pokemon.

In games not necassarily in the anime.

Snorlax: There are only two catchable ones in the game (One in G/S/C). No dip it's rare!

Games yes anime no! As we have seen quite a few snorlax throughout the shows.

The rest of the pokemon you gave explanations for i can agree with you on but i think that in conclusion Ash's pokemon may be tough, loyal and respectful, but just not that rare.

~Kipper~

Poké King

December 30th, 2006, 05:26 PM

Starter Pokemon (all): No dip they're rare! Gamewise, you can't even find them in the wild, and the characters in the anime are lucky for even getting to see a wild one, let alone catch it!
Um Starters are not rare or unusual, if they were they wouldn't be Starters because to be able to give every Trainer certain Pokémon then they have to be in abundance or else you couldn't do it and there not unusual because every Trainers has gotten one pretty much.

Tauros: They are so annoying... in the games you can never catch them. That makes them rare.
Ya and Ash caught 30 with ease, if that screams rare and unusual then Pidgey is a damn legendary lol.

Noctowl: SHINY! SHINY YOU DOPE!
Ya it was a Shiny but Noctowl normally isn't rare or unusual but I'll give you Noctowl just because it sparkles lol.

Phanphy: It hatched from an egg Ash got from an old couple, so he never even really caught this one- besides, it's a Donphan now.
Ya I forgot lol but still its not rare or unusual so it doesn't matter.

Mankey: It attacked him. Need I say more?
Ya it attacked him so?

Torkoal: Fairly uncommon in the games.
Ya in the game, talking about the Anime here.

Pidgeotto: Ash caught this in the early episodes, before he stated that he only wanted rare or unusual Pokemon.
Ya but one can assume that he thought that way before stating it besides Pidgeotoo isn't rare or unusual in either the game or the Anime.

Corphish: Caught because it attacked Ash, and he decided he wanted a Pokemon with that type of strength for his team.
So because it was decently strong its unusual lol.

Heracross: Fairly uncommon in the G/S/C games, which were the latest ones in the season that Heracross was caught.
Doesn't matter how rare they are in the game we are talking about the Anime.

Mukkuru: Caught because Aipom attacked it.
Mukkuru is just like Taillow.

Aipom: Caught because it wanted to come with Ash... and it is a bit unusual.
How it is unusual for a Pokémon to want to come with you, going by that logic practically all Ash's Pokémon be unusual because that's how he gets most of them lol.

Snorunt: Rare In-Game Pokemon.
Ya in game maybe but the in the Anime its questionable.

Tailow: Caught because it would have been seriously injured if Ash had allowed it to continue battling Pikachu.
So then your saying its not rare and/or unusual because its not, its the Pidgey version of the Hoenn Region.

Snorlax: There are only two catchable ones in the game (One in G/S/C). No dip it's rare!
Ya in the game there rare but in the Anime there not that rare though I will say I haven't seen too many in the Anime so there sorta rare and/or unusual though I previously said Snorlax was the only one who stood out as possibly being rare and/or unusual.

So there you have it- my reply to yours. And anyway, since in the original Japanese Ash himself is the one who states that he only wants rare or unusual Pokemon, you don't need to check the levity of my statement, unless of course you want to argue with Ash.
Checking the levity of the statement was not to check if he said it but just how truthful was the statement by his actions, ya he may of said it but is it true. No its not or else he have practically no Pokémon because none of his Pokémon are really rare and/or unusual.

You have raised many valid points as to why Ash's pokemon may be seen as rare or unusual, but you are forgetting one major thing this conversation is relating to the anime not the games, therefore you could not compare the rarity of the pokemon form the games to the anime as it does not correspond. Example you said Tauros were extremley rare and hard to capture in the games, but as we are relaitng to the anime, you can not really say they are rare or even hard to capture as Ash managed to capture 30 of them, so therefore tauros wouldnt be seen to be something special.

Ya in the games lots of his Pokémon could be considered rare and/or unusual but in the Anime there far from rare and/or unusual which was my point as this is not about the game its about the Anime. Oh and thanks for telling him what's what Mudkip85 while I wasn't here to do so myself lol.

Ichaste Pekoni

December 30th, 2006, 11:10 PM

I dont see how that makes it rare or unusual as mankeys are known for there bad tempered nature.

In the case of Snorlax and Mankey (and more than that, I believe) Ash captured them because he had to. Mankey--sorry, I mean PRIMEAPE (he never caught it as a Mankey, remember? Geez, what dummy got that wrong...oh, THAT dummy) was chasing after Ash and wasn't going to let him go, so Ash had to fight and catch it to get it to stop (yeah, doesn't exactly make sense to me either, but that's what happened). And Snorlax was eating all the food on a bunch of islands, so Ash caught it to protect the people there from anymore attacks (and Snorlax can swim, so I'd call it pretty unusual).

A few others:

Torkoal: He was impressed by it going to the Valley of Steel (or whatever it was called) and trying to fight the Steelix there.

Pidgeotto: Pre-statement and he was partly trying to prove Misty wrong (they were having an argument and she insulted his ability or something)

Caterpie: Misty wasn't going to stop screaming otherwise XP. ...Seriously, though, that was pre-statement as well.

Starters: Yes, they're rare. I can't think of a single time that they showed a wild Charmander (except for his, of course). And as for Squirtle & Bulbasaur, I only remember seeing them shown in the wild a couple of times through the WHOLE SERIES. If that doesn't shout rare, I don't know what does. Oh, and Ash had wanted them in the first place, but couldn't get them because he slept late, so you can also chalk it up to that.

Taillow: Caught FOR ITS OWN GOOD. Its health was at risk, for pete's sake.

So, yeah, he's gone against his statement, but that was usually because the Pokemon attacked HIM (or, as is apparently the case of Mukkuru, he got dragged into it), so it doesn't count.

Poké King

December 30th, 2006, 11:47 PM

In the case of Snorlax and Mankey (and more than that, I believe) Ash captured them because he had to. Mankey--sorry, I mean PRIMEAPE (he never caught it as a Mankey, remember? Geez, what dummy got that wrong...oh, THAT dummy) was chasing after Ash and wasn't going to let him go, so Ash had to fight and catch it to get it to stop (yeah, doesn't exactly make sense to me either, but that's what happened).
You talk about me trying to start an argument and you call someone a dummy and technically when Ash decided to capture Mankey it was a Mankey at the time but before he actually began the process of capturing him it evolved. So technically he initially was going after a Mankey and ya it evolved before capture but all that matters is origninal intent.

And Snorlax was eating all the food on a bunch of islands, so Ash caught it to protect the people there from anymore attacks (and Snorlax can swim, so I'd call it pretty unusual).
Ya but last I checked any of them could of captured Snorlax after it was put to sleep, a little baby could of done it lol. And last I checked swimming isn't unusual unless its a Pokémon that either doesn't work well with water or its a Pokémon you wouldn't expect to swim well like a bird or bug like Beautifly or something.

A few others:

Torkoal: He was impressed by it going to the Valley of Steel (or whatever it was called) and trying to fight the Steelix there.
Ya and what about it, it was a Pokémon trying to fight another Pokémon. What's rare or unusual about that?

Pidgeotto: Pre-statement and he was partly trying to prove Misty wrong (they were having an argument and she insulted his ability or something)
Actually he wasn't trying to prove anything to Misty, he just wanted to capture it but after being incompitent by just throwing a Poké Ball at it then he wanted to prove to Misty he was a good Trainer course he then selected Caterpie to do so which proved he furthermore was a bad Trainer. And as I said pre-statement captures don't matter because he probably had the idea in his head all along.

Caterpie: Misty wasn't going to stop screaming otherwise XP. ...Seriously, though, that was pre-statement as well.
Ya or they could of just walked away lol besides Ash wanted to capture it, it just so happen if he didn't capture it fast she keep on screaming.

Starters: Yes, they're rare. I can't think of a single time that they showed a wild Charmander (except for his, of course). And as for Squirtle & Bulbasaur, I only remember seeing them shown in the wild a couple of times through the WHOLE SERIES. If that doesn't shout rare, I don't know what does. Oh, and Ash had wanted them in the first place, but couldn't get them because he slept late, so you can also chalk it up to that.
Ya there so rare that every Trainer in the world has had one practically lol. And we probably don't see them much in the Anime because it take the perceived specialness they have on them for being Starters away. And last I checked in Charicific Valley there were a ton of Charizard proving there at one point were a ton of Charmander and I could go on but why when I was right before you made your statement lol.

Taillow: Caught FOR ITS OWN GOOD. Its health was at risk, for pete's sake.
Ya but once again any of them could of captured it at that point.

So, yeah, he's gone against his statement, but that was usually because the Pokemon attacked HIM (or, as is apparently the case of Mukkuru, he got dragged into it), so it doesn't count.
Well, last I checked plenty of Pokémon attacked Ash in the Anime but he never tried to capture them like the Spearow and Beedrill in the first few episodes.

Ichaste Pekoni

December 31st, 2006, 12:15 AM

You talk about me trying to start an argument and you call someone a dummy and technically when Ash decided to capture Mankey it was a Mankey at the time but before he actually began the process of capturing him it evolved. So technically he initially was going after a Mankey and ya it evolved before capture but all that matters is origninal intent.

Ya but last I checked any of them could of captured Snorlax after it was put to sleep, a little baby could of done it lol. And last I checked swimming isn't unusual unless its a Pokémon that either doesn't work well with water or its a Pokémon you wouldn't expect to swim well like a bird or bug like Beautifly or something.

Aside: Or one that weighs a lot...

Ya and what about it, it was a Pokémon trying to fight another Pokémon. What's rare or unusual about that?

Actually he wasn't trying to prove anything to Misty, he just wanted to capture it but after being incompitent by just throwing a Poké Ball at it then he wanted to prove to Misty he was a good Trainer course he then selected Caterpie to do so which proved he furthermore was a bad Trainer. And as I said pre-statement captures don't matter because he probably had the idea in his head all along.

Aside: *GASP* A supposition!!

Ya or they could of just walked away lol besides Ash wanted to capture it, it just so happen if he didn't capture it fast she keep on screaming.

Ya there so rare that every Trainer in the world has had one practically lol. And we probably don't see them much in the Anime because it take the perceived specialness they have on them for being Starters away. And last I checked in Charicific Valley there were a ton of Charizard proving there at one point were a ton of Charmander and I could go on but why when I was right before you made your statement lol.

Aside: And yet AGAIN characteristics of those scum pop up...

Ya but once again any of them could of captured it at that point.

Well, last I checked plenty of Pokémon attacked Ash in the Anime but he never tried to capture them like the Spearow and Beedrill in the first few episodes.

............

I'm done trying to talk with you.

Of course, if anyone else would like to talk about it, then great. I just don't want to try talking to a brick wall...

Poké King

December 31st, 2006, 12:39 AM

Of course, if anyone else would like to talk about it, then great. I just don't want to try talking to a brick wall...
Um let me see I prove you wrong about Mankey, I say Starters aren't rare which there not as explained before and ya Snorlax is heavy which means he has the strength to carry that weight therefore be able to swim.

And you don't want to talk to me anymore because I am proving what you say is wrong most if not all the time and I'm the brick wall. If your right then I will tell you but if your gonna say something wrong like Starters being rare I'm not gonna just sit back and make anyone who reads this who doesn't know the truth believe such a lie. Besides in the end I can admit when I am wrong, just ask Mudkip85 as I admitted to making a mistake from something he said yet no where in this thread have you said you were wrong about something even though you been repeatedly wrong and I am the brick wall remember lol.

Oh and if I'm scum or whatever you meant for me saying I was right, considering you just called someone a dummy for something they were right on I wouldn't be taking the morale high ground. And how interesting you didn't comment on when I said you insulted someone lol. I guess you didn't want to further show how you like to insult people.

In the end if I am wrong I'll admit it, if I am right I will admit it, if someone is right I will admit it and if someone is wrong I will admit it. Oh and you mentioned me saying probably and how bad it was or something, thats funny considering most of your post in this thread has been speculation but whatever.

Mudkip85

December 31st, 2006, 12:45 AM

Torkoal: He was impressed by it going to the Valley of Steel (or whatever it was called) and trying to fight the Steelix there.

Okay so Ask may have been impressed but does that make it rare or unusual? Okay its a steelix so what lets not forget that steelix which is a steel type is weak against fire types so if anything it prooves that Torkoal was pretty weak as it was having difficulties beating a type where it should have a clear advantage.

Caterpie: Misty wasn't going to stop screaming otherwise XP. ...Seriously, though, that was pre-statement as well.

As Poke King said they could of just walked on, but it was Ash's first chance at catching his first pokemon, so it probably was special for him but in reality its a caterpie which is not rare at all, as its found in many places such as all the forests in the anime.

Starters: Yes, they're rare. I can't think of a single time that they showed a wild Charmander (except for his, of course). And as for Squirtle & Bulbasaur, I only remember seeing them shown in the wild a couple of times through the WHOLE SERIES. If that doesn't shout rare, I don't know what does. Oh, and Ash had wanted them in the first place, but couldn't get them because he slept late, so you can also chalk it up to that.

Charific valley has already been brought to the conversation by Poke King and its true that there must be many trainers that own a charizard considering the amount there are there, therefore charmander for one would not be seen as rare. However for other starters i would agree with you as its tru that they do not appear in the wild that often in the anime.

Taillow: Caught FOR ITS OWN GOOD. Its health was at risk, for pete's sake.

Does that make it unusual or rare?

~Kipper~