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EmeraldSky
December 26th, 2006, 04:09 PM
The chronological order of the Zelda games has always been a hot debate in fan circles...there are just as many timeline theories as there are fans.

That being said, I present to you my own personal timeline theory. Please understand that this is just my opinion on the matter, and not the be-all end-all. If you have your own timeline you want to share, or want to debate points of mine, you can do that here. Just keep debates to a civilized discussion.

So, here is my timeline theory, in simple graphical terms:

I believe there are four Links, with each one's adventures being laid out as follows:

Link #1:

Ocarina of Time->Majora's Mask->Twilight Princess

Link #2:

A Link to the Past->Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons->Link's Awakening->The Legend of Zelda->Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Link #3:

The Wind Waker->Phantom Hourglass

Link #4:

The Minish Cap->Four Swords->Four Swords Adventures

If you need detailed explanations of why I placed each game as I did, I will be happy to give them.

Allstories
December 26th, 2006, 04:55 PM
I'm pretty sure the TP Link is different from the OOT Link.

Also, check out this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=15194

TRIFORCE89
December 26th, 2006, 07:40 PM
Yay! Someone finally made this thread. This shall be fun. I'm about to sign out, but I'll be on tomorrow to scare you all with my obsessiveness. But...I'm curious... detailed explanations and reasons for your timeline please?

Right off the bat I see at least two things wrong with it. But I'll stay silent. I want to see what others'll say. :p

Aether
December 26th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Link #1:

Ocarina of Time->Majora's Mask->Twilight Princess

The OOT-->MM makes sense but as I read in Nintendo Power, Twilight Princess takes place 100 years after OOT and says that the 2 Links and Zeldas are not the same or related in anyway, everything else, i'm still thinking about ^^

EmeraldSky
December 27th, 2006, 05:40 AM
I remember reading somewhere that TP was set in the same timeframe as Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, so that's why I put it where I did.

TP having a seperate Link could very well be a possibility.

As for me putting Ocarina of Time where I did, Miyamoto-sama himself has explicitly said this comes first.

TRIFORCE89
December 27th, 2006, 07:03 AM
Here's my rough timeline. I'm going to replay everything and take notes to get more accurate, but this should do for now.

Link I - The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
Why is this first and not OoT? Eiji Aonuma said in an interview (I believe that it was for the release of FSA) that the original FS was the oldest tale in Zelda chronology. Now, if TMC tells the beginning of the Four Sword saga (what with the forging of the Four Sword and Vaati becoming a Wind Mage and all), then it would come before FS. Therefore, it's first. The game can be open for interpretation too. It could potentially explain why the Kokiri wear green hats, why monsters populate Hyrule, etc.

Link II - The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
Mmm...this could be different Link. However, it is stated that Zelda already trusts Link above anyone else - so they must have some kind of existing relationship. But, the backstory provided in the manual contains an adventure not presented in TMC. So, something's missing.

Link III - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Prior to those FS revelations, it was widely accepted that OoT came first. Umm...I don't think anyone will disagree with this, so no point in defending it.

Link III - The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
If you want a time frame, Nintendo of America say three months after the events of OoT. But that has little effect on anything. No need to defend this either. It is a direct sequel to OoT.

Link IV - The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
At least 100 years after the events of OoT. Within that time however, a lot has happened. Geography's changed a little, but Kakariko has been abandoned and relocated. All races are present, or at least mentioned in some way. Anyone think that the Ooccoo are somehow connected to TMC's Wind Tribe? :o Hey. What dungeon did the Armos appear in? Was it City in the Sky? I don't remember. But, TMC tells us that the Minish created Armoses for the Wind Tribe long ago.

Link V - The Legend of Zelda: Hyrulean Adventure
I'm not too sure about this. Somehow the Mirror of Twilight must be put back together. In this game, Ganon uses the Mirror of Darkness to send people to the Dark World (similar to how the Twili were banised the the Twilight Realm via the Mirro of Twilight). A series of Dark Link are seen in a TP cutscene in reference to Hyrule's history of war. I'm pretty sure that that had to do with the Fierce Wars that were pre-OoT; but if not then...I think FSA/HA comes before TP due to it's use large use of Dark Link. Or...maybe that cutscene was just artsy, because Ganon wasn't free again yet. At least, as far as we know. Confusing. The overworld map for Hyrulean Adventure is also a bit flooded. Which leads into...

Link VI - The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Hundreds of years after OoT. The events of OoT, TP, and FSA, make up the Imprisoning War (the Fierce Wars kick starts this). ... Kind of. You have to be really liberal with that interetation. If we go by the old ALttP (which has now been reconned), then only OoT would be the war. But...at the end of FSA, Ganon is sealed within the Four Sword, and in Japan the Imprisoning War is called the War of Sealing. Ganon's seal is also a triangular prisim, which is what it was in some official art for ALttP. Anyway...getting off track. In TWW, the King speaks of Hylian knights who fell in battle during the war. FSA anyone? So, we know that TWW is after that at least.

Link VII - The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
This game has to do with the Dark World. It was first created when Ganon was sealed in the Sacred Realm in OoT, it was then expanded during FSA, and now it's a seperate realm onto itself like the Twilight Realm. Ganondorf has been imprisoned once, and probably killed twice by now. As, FSA shows us, Ganon is a mythological beast or spirit who keeps inhabiting a new Ganondorf, although the beast is capable of standing on it's own. And, that's what you get in ALttP. Or it could be the power of the Dark World. Regardless, you're facing Ganon not Ganondorf, and Ganon is destroyed. For good. So, we won't be seeing him for a while now...

Link VII - The Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series
Or, maybe you will. Twinrova revives Ganon, but the keyword here is...revived. This shows that he was defeated in ALttP. Once revived he is a bumbling manical fool. The lands in the Oracle Series lie east and west of ALttP's Hyrule. Probably. I've examined the maps. And given a few liberties, like the back side of Death Mountain being call Talus (as it was in FS) then this would work. Link leaves on a boat.

Link VII - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
It is official that this is a direct sequel to ALttP. But I put the Oracles inbetween there because of the boat thing. Oracles end on a boat, LA starts on a boat. Link's Nightmares include past foes from ALttP, so that adds to the authenticity of the sequel claim.

Link VIII - The Legend of Zelda
How does this work? I'm not sure. Ganon is back for some reason. Back in these days, story was null. But, in AoL we learn that Ganon's minions can revive him by using Link's blood. Maybe they did that. Link VII died or something. I don't know. But somehow Ganon is back. But, not my fault. It is confirmed that ALttP is a prequel to LoZ.

Link VIII - Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
This is a weak explaation but...this is the only game with a numerical value. Therefore it is the sequel to all the other games. We know that is is a direct sequel to LoZ, no need for an explanation.


Now, another way of examining the timeline is with the state of Triforce.

- Creation of Hyrule and Triforce; whole in Sacred Realm
- TMC; not mentioned
- FS; not mentioned
- Fierce Wars; sought after
- OoT; whole in Sacred Realm, in Ganon's clutches, split
- MM; not mentioned
- TP; Ganon has Power
- FSA; not mentioned
- TWW; split. Courage split and hidden beneath the waves. Ganon has Power. Wisdom hidden with royale family. At the end it is united.
- ALttP; united
- Oracles; united, in Hyrule Castle
- LA; not mentioned
- LoZ; split, Ganon had power, wisdom was split and hidden, courage is in the Great Palace
- AoL;united in the end.

:o It's split in LoZ? Oh noes. How comes. The Legend of Sleeping of Zelda. A small technicality. It states that at some point in time, Zelda's brother sent a wizard to question Zelda on the locaion of the Triforce. This was because the King died and the Prince could only inherit a piece of it. He wanted the other two pieces and Zelda knew where it was. A spell was placed upon her, wherein she fell asleep for ages. In her memory, every female of the Royal Family was named Zelda. You would think this would go erly on in the timeline, no? I would. But, I can't get it to fit. The Triforce is split in LoZ because of the King's death. I guess that would go after ALttP, because that's when it's whole. This would be fine and all, if...we didn't have seven other Princess Zeldas already. @@

That's my bare bones timeline. I could go more detailed, but this is just a simple post.

EmeraldSky
December 27th, 2006, 07:11 AM
Wow, that's a lot of Links!

If we were to revise my timeline to include a potential Link #5:

Link #1:

Ocarina of Time->Majora's Mask

Link #2:

Twilight Princess

Link #3:

A Link to the Past->Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons->Link's Awakening->The Legend of Zelda->Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Link #4:

The Wind Waker->Phantom Hourglass

Link #5:

The Minish Cap->Four Swords->Four Swords Adventures

Allstories
December 27th, 2006, 08:09 AM
My theory: The Legend of Zelda chronology is a LEGEND that has been told for centuries with several different accounts by different people, hence the variation in style and lack of discernible continuity.

~Jak~
December 27th, 2006, 08:41 AM
Wow, that's a lot of Links!

If we were to revise my timeline to include a potential Link #5:

Link #1:

Ocarina of Time->Majora's Mask

Link #2:

Twilight Princess

Link #3:

A Link to the Past->Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons->Link's Awakening->The Legend of Zelda->Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Link #4:

The Wind Waker->Phantom Hourglass

Link #5:

The Minish Cap->Four Swords->Four Swords Adventures


Ok i am pretty sure that 1 and two is right...

But i think that its

1st link = ocarina of time + Majoras mask + Twilight princess

2nd link = Legend of zelda + a link to the past + adventure of link

3rd link = Ages + seasons

Hyrule is ruined by the great flood and...

3rd link = Wind waker + phantom hourglass



Four swords is seperate to the timeline...?

TRIFORCE89
December 27th, 2006, 08:54 AM
Allstories, there is a timeline to the series. Miyamoto has said that they have a timeline document internally at Nintendo.

We may have a few holes, but the vast majority of connections must surely outweigh those holes.

~Jak~
December 27th, 2006, 09:33 AM
i haven't heard of that one before/...

I can't wait until i get twilight princess... i hope it has an ocarina of time feel to it...

Abby
December 27th, 2006, 09:46 AM
i haven't heard of that one before/...

I can't wait until i get twilight princess... i hope it has an ocarina of time feel to it...
To say it has an OoT feel would be an understatement. :x I don't have anything to add to the timeline though, since I trust Triforce (I mean, if you can't trust the Triforce, then what can you trust?), and it also makes sense to me. I need to replay TMC though, since I don't remember the Wind Tribe. I'm pretty sure Armos were in the ToT though...I don't remember if they were in the City in the Sky or not.

~Jak~
December 27th, 2006, 09:52 AM
TOT whats tot???

you can honestly believe that though i understand why you think triforce's timeline is correct...

Abby
December 27th, 2006, 09:54 AM
TOT whats tot???

you can honestly believe that though i understand why you think triforce's timeline is correct...

Uh, it'd be a spoiler, but this entire thread is a spoiler, so why not. xD ToT = Temple of Time.

TRIFORCE89
December 27th, 2006, 10:53 AM
Hmm...I think you're right about the Temple of Time and the Armos Statues, Abby. I should replay TP. Hurry up component cables. T_T;

I should replay TMC too. There are human looking characters up in the sky, but I can't remember if that's the Wind Tribe or a different tribe. I know that the Wind Tribe did live on land until they went up to the heavens, but I can't remember if those people are them or not. I hope they aren't, because that would be quite the de-evolution to become an Ooccoo?

Popuri
December 27th, 2006, 09:11 PM
The people you meet up with in the sky are part of the wind tribe, because you go to the place where they would normally be, but you don't find them, someone tells you that they moved into the sky after their homeland was invaded.

Esupio
January 7th, 2007, 08:59 AM
TOT whats tot???

you can honestly believe that though i understand why you think triforce's timeline is correct...

I beleive that your title of Pc's number one zelda fan is unvalid.

I mean look at Triforce's timeline, THATS JUST OBBSESSIVE

I like allstories theory XD

EmeraldSky
January 7th, 2007, 09:41 AM
Very nice theories, everyone!

I'll explain why I placed each Link as I did here in a moment...I always revise my timeline whenever a new game comes out or I find information that seems plausible.

Ichigo Flash
January 7th, 2007, 10:44 AM
No one can claim to be a #1 Zelda fan, thats stuff of fan boys really, unless they have a truck load of merch, all the games, original stuff etc. etc.

Back to the timeline, I think Miyamoto made it vague purposely, its not meant to be chronoglically ordered though some games refer to each other on the "timeline".

Though Emerald I have to say, I'm massively impressed with the thought you put into it and you seem to have the back-up info for all so I'm not gonna argue.

Esupio
January 7th, 2007, 11:23 AM
No one can claim to be a #1 Zelda fan, thats stuff of fan boys really, unless they have a truck load of merch, all the games, original stuff etc. etc.

Back to the timeline, I think Miyamoto made it vague purposely, its not meant to be chronoglically ordered though some games refer to each other on the "timeline".

Though Emerald I have to say, I'm massively impressed with the thought you put into it and you seem to have the back-up info for all so I'm not gonna argue.

you can claim to be PC's number one zelda fan.

Yes. I agree with that.

XD

EmeraldSky
January 7th, 2007, 12:02 PM
Here's why I placed each Link as I did:

#1:

Miyamoto-sama himself has said that Ocarina of Time is first, and we all know Majora's Mask is the sequel to Ocarina of Time. Some people have argued that a time split occured during Ocarina of Time, splitting the timeline in two. For simplicity's sake, I'm arguing that the timeline did not split, and it is (more or less) a continous timeline.

#2:

Twilight Princess occurs 100 years after Ocarina of Time.

#3.

A Link to the Past occurs 25-50 years after Twilight Princess, with the events of Ocarina of Time being known as the Imprisoning War that that game refers to. After A Link to the Past ends (according to the Link's Awakening story), Link sets off on more adventure away from Hyrule. While we don't know just how many adventures he went on, we can safely assume the Oracle games were two of those adventures, since in the endings for both games, the boat he's riding looks like the one he's riding on during Link's Awakening's opening. We can also assume that Link's Awakening occured en route back to Hyrule.

The original game occurs when Link finally gets back to Hyrule, with Adventure of Link occuring several years later.

#4:

Hyrule floods, and 50 years after Adventure of Link, Wind Waker happens, with Phantom Hourglas occuring not long after.

#5:

I'm not quite sure where the Four Swords games fall in the official story, but I included The Minish Cap with them because that seems to me to be the introduction of the Four Sword and being able to copy yourself, which played a big role in the Four Swords games.

There you are.

Morkula
January 7th, 2007, 10:10 PM
There are gonna be spoilers in this post, so don't read if you haven't beaten TP... XD

Triffy, I know this is a bit late, but (correct me if I'm wrong) aren't the boat in LA and the boat in the Oracle games different? LA's confirmed to be a direct sequel to ALttP, so I think that the whole boat thing is a coincidence and has no connection.

Also...I know you hate the idea, Triffy, but you've gotta consider that a split timeline is a possibility. I mean, if you consider MM to be part of one single timeline, then OoT technically never took place and the Hero of Time never truly existed. Think about it - at the end of OoT, Link gets sent back to before all the events that happened in OoT actually happened. Ganondorf never took power, the Master Sword was never pulled out, the Sages were never awakened, and the spiritual stones were never collected. Three months later, Link leaves to go find Navi in MM.

BUT...if the adult Link timeline continues, we have Ganon being sealed away in the Sacred Realm, which he breaks free of before Twilight Princess. The Sages were awakened before TP - we know this because they tried to execute Ganondorf and failed miserably. Ganon returns to power and uses Zant as his puppet, yadda yadda, until Link defeats him.

Anyway...just a theory. Not saying I agree with it or not, because frankly, the timeline confuses the crap out of me. XD

Just one more thought...ever think that LoZ could take place right after TWW/PH? Think about it...Hyrule's a pretty barren, desolate land. It could be that way because the flood waters have just receded and people haven't migrated back from North Hyrule (where AoL takes place) yet. Just something I thought I'd throw out there, although the only problem is that I think Ganon is technically dead for good after LoZ, since AoL has them trying to revive him. Of course, he's been revived before, so...

Ichigo Flash
January 8th, 2007, 08:24 AM
you can claim to be PC's number one zelda fan.

XD

I was asking for the truckload of original merch as proof :P And I doubt he has it.




Miyamoto-sama himself has said that Ocarina of Time is first, and we all know Majora's Mask is the sequel to Ocarina of Time. Some people have argued that a time split occured during Ocarina of Time, splitting the timeline in two. For simplicity's sake, I'm arguing that the timeline did not split, and it is (more or less) a continous timeline.




You're absolutely right anyway Emerald about the time split in Ocarina (if you're referring to the pulling out of the Master Sword and Link being sealed away until he was old enough to be the Hero of Time). I think it mentions somewhere or I've read somewhere that he had to be 16 at least to be the Hero of Time which would mean about a 10ish year gap which means it would be reasonable to place them both together in Link #1 but the Adult Link would have been after Majora's Mask but that doesn't matter anyway.

EmeraldSky
January 8th, 2007, 09:26 AM
The time split is a hotly debated point in timeline debates...Some argue it did happen, and others say it didn't happen, although if a time split actually occured, it would explain a few plot holes.

Ichigo Flash
January 8th, 2007, 01:14 PM
The time split is a hotly debated point in timeline debates...Some argue it did happen, and others say it didn't happen, although if a time split actually occured, it would explain a few plot holes.

I reckon it did but nyeh, my opinion I guess. You think so?

EmeraldSky
January 8th, 2007, 01:19 PM
While the time-split theory does provide some explanations concerning age...I argue that despite the explanations, it makes the timeline more convuluted that it is, so I believe that every game contributes one long continuous timeline.

Morkula
January 8th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Aonuma actually mentioned one time that the fact that there are two "endings" to Ocarina is very important to the time. It's not fair to simply dismiss the theory without any other reasoning than "It makes the timeline more complicated."

EmeraldSky
January 8th, 2007, 08:01 PM
What I don't get is where each game would go if there are in fact, two timelines that were made as a result of a time split.

I'm not dismissing it outright; while the theory has some strength, I don't understand where each game would go and still have the whole story make sense

Morkula
January 8th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Some people think that the second timeline ends right after MM. Although I think the intro to TWW mentions something about how Link left and went to a distant land seeking a friend or something. I'd have to look at it again.

I was reading a big thread on GameFAQs about the timeline a week or two ago. Guess I'll have to hunt it up. XD

DiamondDust
January 14th, 2007, 02:22 AM
Wow, i just finished WindWaker, and starting to think about this whole TimeLine thing. Me too, i think the timeline finishes on TWW, making Phantom Hourglass a What-If story. But Twilight Princess, it's new, and in the originals (The Snes/Nes and the N64 games) it doesn't mention about WolfLink, so i think it's another What-If.

Sorry if i'm wrong, im still new to this. And sorry if i'm late.

TRIFORCE89
January 19th, 2007, 02:32 PM
In March I'm going to start the fourth version of my timeline. ... the third one kind of happened. But after numeruous restarts and revisions I'm just going to bypass it. In the meantime...

In terms of the storyline, we've decided that this takes place 100 years after the events in The Ocarina of Time. We think that as you play through the game, you'll notice that in the beginning the storyline explains some of the events in The Ocarina of Time. You'll also find hints of things from The Ocarina of Time that exist in The Wind Waker.

There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of The Ocarina of Time, there were two endings to that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child. You could say that The Wind Waker takes place 100 years after the ending in which Link was an adult.

Morkula
January 19th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Problem is, TP didn't really patch up any big holes or clear anything up about the timeline. If anything, it just created more holes.

And I've officially lost all respect for Aonuma. "The Ocarina of Time". Pfft...

TRIFORCE89
January 19th, 2007, 02:56 PM
I don't know if that was his error, or the translator's error. Same with "this takes place 100 years after". In-game text confirms that TWW takes place hundreds of years after OoT, not 100 years.

I don't know if TP created more holes. It certainly didn't fill any, or at least it hasn't yet. I'm going to analyze everything once exams and portfolios are out of the way. Something may be there, no matter how small. I think TP widened any holes that may have existed.

EmeraldSky
January 19th, 2007, 03:31 PM
I'm sticking by my revised five Link timeline for now.

Morkula
January 19th, 2007, 07:02 PM
I don't know if that was his error, or the translator's error. Same with "this takes place 100 years after". In-game text confirms that TWW takes place hundreds of years after OoT, not 100 years.
Yeah, I think that was confirmed to be a translation error. It's supposed to be hundreds of years.

I don't know if TP created more holes. It certainly didn't fill any, or at least it hasn't yet. I'm going to analyze everything once exams and portfolios are out of the way. Something may be there, no matter how small. I think TP widened any holes that may have existed.
I've gotta agree with you on that. TP screwed things up even worse than they already were. XD
Let me know if you need some help with that. I'd be willing to do some poking around TP too. XD

EmeraldSky
January 20th, 2007, 04:44 AM
The only point where I feel that a time split would make sense is Ocarina of Time--when Link pulled the Master Sword, a small time split was created, allowing Ganondorf to come to power. The Adult Link part allowed Link to repair the time rift and set history right, which he did.

Otherwise, the timeline just flows like one continuous timeline, IMO.

TRIFORCE89
February 11th, 2007, 08:00 PM
If you want a real headache, read this:

http://zeldawiki.org/index.php?title=Category:Timeline