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Koriaku
January 21st, 2007, 04:21 PM
Did you ever notice how in the episode where Ash meets Brock, Brock's Father says that his mother died. But in later episodes he has a Mother?

Forever
January 21st, 2007, 11:55 PM
I never noticed that, but I did find it weird that Brock did have a mother when the rest of the story meant otherwise.

heyadj
January 22nd, 2007, 07:42 AM
He did? When was the mother introduced?

Charaxes
January 22nd, 2007, 09:07 AM
Okay! Time for long exposition.

In the episode, "The Battle of Nibi Gym!" or "Showdown in Pewter Gym" for the dubbers, Munoh (Flint) told Satoshi that Takeshi's mother ran out on her family, in the same way Munoh ran out on his family, and leaving Takeshi to take care of the children. And 4Kids said that the woman died to probably compensate for the deadbeat parents setup the Japanese episode had. (Thank Dogasu for the truth behind the mistranslation)

Of course, at the time, 4Kids didn't think the producers would actually use the mother character a handful of years later, but they did.

And to save time, this is the episode that details of her full appearance: http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparisons/chronicles/ep005.html

As long as you talk about the mother or 4Kids' faux pas, tis fine with me.

Koriaku
January 22nd, 2007, 12:52 PM
Or maybe she came back from the dead or Brock's Father re-married.

Scarlet Weather
January 22nd, 2007, 12:59 PM
Oh, better yet- to take a leaf from Dogasu's book, during the entire journey Brock was secretly concealing a pirated Dragon Radar, and at some point in between episodes, or perhaps during moments where he is not visible when Ash is gym battling or something, he was searching for the Dragon Balls, which he eventually found and used exactly twenty episodes before he came home, wishing his mother back to life. He then promptly forgot about the whole thing due to Akira Toriyama coming out of nowhere and whacking everyone repeatedly over the head with a rubber chicken for violating copyright and stealing his ideas. Thus, we have a living mother and no memory of her ever being dead! It works! *is hit by car*

Seriously though, one wonders what the head of 4Kids thought when he saw the script. "Oh, crap, this is like some kind of punishment for editing the plot with my company's horrible dubbing" perhaps. *Glares at said head*

Sunflorazumarill
January 22nd, 2007, 06:13 PM
My opinion is this:

Flint lied to Ash about Brock's mother being dead. He just didn't want to make Lola seem like a bad mother was the reason.

Eventually, Ash brought it up to Brock and Brock told Ash the truth.

Also, shortly after Brock came home and left for Hoenn, Flint and Lola got into an argument since she found out he lied to Ash and told him she was dead. Fint's remark to this, "It was either that or tell him that you ran out on the family!"

In short, 4KIDS wise, Flint lied to Ash about Brock's mom being dead. He's sorry he ever told Ash that in the first place.

Jeremy
January 22nd, 2007, 06:32 PM
Oh, better yet- to take a leaf from Dogasu's book, during the entire journey Brock was secretly concealing a pirated Dragon Radar, and at some point in between episodes, or perhaps during moments where he is not visible when Ash is gym battling or something, he was searching for the Dragon Balls, which he eventually found and used exactly twenty episodes before he came home, wishing his mother back to life. He then promptly forgot about the whole thing due to Akira Toriyama coming out of nowhere and whacking everyone repeatedly over the head with a rubber chicken for violating copyright and stealing his ideas. Thus, we have a living mother and no memory of her ever being dead! It works! *is hit by car*

Wow sweetie, your blatant DragonBall reference makes perfect sense. =P

Anyway when I saw the episode were his mother came back, and after the 30 minutes of screaming plothole, I just guessed that his mom and dad made amends, or he just remarried. ^^;

Scarlet Weather
January 23rd, 2007, 03:55 AM
Wow sweetie, your blatant DragonBall reference makes perfect sense. =P


*raises eyebrow* Jeremy, if anyone but you had called me sweety I would have been so angry right now... anyway, I didn't come up with that on my own. Dogasu was the one who originally cracked the joke, although I do take credit for the addition of Akira's rubber chicken. *snerk* Anyway, I wasn't trying to be serious there, so I'm hoping you all didn't take it as such... on my part, I think Brock's mother probably got so wrapped up in her various hobbies that for a while, everyone just thought she was dead. (Although, at this point I think the Dragonball reference might have made more sense. XD)

Zishi
January 23rd, 2007, 07:00 AM
I think that Brock`s mother has died

Koriaku
January 23rd, 2007, 05:00 PM
No, SHe's alive. I believe in a Chronicle episode you could see her. Anyway... Oh yeah, 4Kids dubbing was the BEST! Better than what we have now. Although I like Ash's new voice. Yeah, so I personally really, truely believe that Brock's Dad remarried.

ALSO:
What is with her? She's sooooooooooo KRAZIE!

Goku Goku
January 23rd, 2007, 06:50 PM
Hmm...I though she died too, unless that was just the 4Kids Dubbing, but that mother in the Pokemon Chronicles episode seemed to be the mother, especially with some of Brock's siblings having some traits of her (hair colour, skin colour etc.). But then again, she could be a second-wife of Flint, but may even resemble his first...

SideNote: I use to peceive Brock's mother as a fat female version of himself - they did have lots of children! :P

Otter Mii-kun
January 23rd, 2007, 07:21 PM
Perhaps Ash (and perhaps some others inquiring) was told about Brocks' mother being dead for the purpose of not letting people know her whereabouts......

Sunflorazumarill
January 23rd, 2007, 07:22 PM
Doesn't anyone want to go with my theory, that Flint lied to Ash so he wouldn't think Lola was a bad mother by leaving the family?

Goku Goku
January 23rd, 2007, 07:27 PM
Doesn't anyone want to go with my theory, that Flint lied to Ash so he wouldn't think Lola was a bad mother by leaving the family?

You got a point there...however, it's odd that Brock and his siblings resemble their father the most, with few traits of the mother, Brock hardly having any... They may as well be half-brothers and half-sisters for all we know, and Flint may've just had more than one wife...

Scales
January 23rd, 2007, 07:28 PM
I forgot about Brocks father. He was only in like 2 episodes. I also forgot about the mother as well. But whats up with that pokemon has to have plot holes

Charaxes
January 24th, 2007, 07:48 PM
Doesn't anyone want to go with my theory, that Flint lied to Ash so he wouldn't think Lola was a bad mother by leaving the family?

Don't be obnoxious. Heh. We got ya.

Anyway, to go on that, I kinda agree, except I think it's Flint more or less compensating by lying to Ash. After all, when he informed Ash all that when he barely knew the kid. Do you want to tell a complete stranger that, "yeah, I ran out on my kids and so did my wife/significant other". I'd say he was doing a half-truth, if you want to go by that -- tell enough truth, but not the whole picture. Or, at least until you develop a sense of trust with whom you're conversing and that takes time.

Of course, the series (both forms) usually tenders things at face value, so take it for what it's worth. Compared to a lot of mistranslations done in Chronicles and the movies, this is rather minor (besides, it's all just exposition, anyway).

Zaiku
January 24th, 2007, 09:21 PM
I like the dragon ball theory.( Even though it isn't true, but Dark Charaxes' one seems most logical, so yeah...

Charaxes
January 26th, 2007, 08:22 PM
I like the dragon ball theory.( Even though it isn't true, but Dark Charaxes' one seems most logical, so yeah...

I can do loopy, too. In reality, Lola is really a...pod person. Shifty eyes. She was cloned in a spaceship, where there are millions of her, waiting to be used at any given moment (just as when the clones break down or she goes crazy enough to fake her death). Why else would she not appear like her offspring at all? It's a generic conspiracy, I tells ya.

There. Heh.

Scarlet Weather
January 27th, 2007, 04:54 AM
Wow. I bow in awe of Charaxes loopy theory. *bows* Now, on to my own!

Lola is secretly a covert government secret agent, who was forced to fake her own death in order to keep her family safe. The government then fired her, so she came back and began "juggling yu-yu sticks" (What the heck are yu-yu sticks anyway?) or whatever the Japanese hobbies were in order to relieve the boredom she felt after she was no longer going on missions!

But yeah, I agree with Charax about the real reason Brock's mother was gone. By the way- an interesting note is that the Japanese version never states that Brock's mother is married to Flint. (Source, Dogasu's backpack. *refers to earlier link*) Yeah, that was weird. I think that this episode was probably the single biggest edited Chronicles show that's been seen yet, next to The Legend of Thunder. (Marina's character totally redone so that she acts like a Valley Girl, and everyone's dub names switched around. Hun gets turned into a "wrangler" and a female, sparking all these slashfics about him and Attila and... I'm done.) I personally think someone like Dattebayo fansubs should do the dubbing. You can trust them not to edit, because they know the fans want the original, and not this watered down idiot version! *is shot by 4Kids and PUSA for saying that a fansubbing company is superior*

Charaxes
January 31st, 2007, 12:27 PM
I got a better one. She's so neurotic about her face, she's had multiple plastic surgeries, but they don't do the trick. So, she keeps getting sliced until her body is numb, can no longer take care of the kids and...commits herself under body dysmorphia (which is an actual disorder). Yeah! There we go.

Dub rant aside (and I don't blame you), I do have to wonder about one particular cut with the family episode (the Brock giving Forrest his team scene). Considering that was the main reason to watch, they could have just foregone the episode completely, since Brock's family dilemma and his decision to go to Hoenn were completely different plots. If you think about it, anyway. Bah.

Scarlet Weather
January 31st, 2007, 12:58 PM
0_o;

I got out-crazied. And yeah, sorry about the dub rant. I'm touchy when it comes to dubbing. I don't like it when incredibly good shows in Japanese are turned into lame-looking "cheap cartoon imitations" by dubbers. I don't watch the anime in English anymore 'cause I can't stand what the dubbers did with it. (Well, the prodigious amount of Johto and Hoenn filler helped). And yeah, why didn't 4Kids just skip it? And why did they edit out that scene anyway? That makes, like, zero sense! (Then again, this is Al Kahn or whatever his name is we're talking about. With him, it doesn't need to make sense.)

dannichols
January 31st, 2007, 01:17 PM
Okay, I was only 9 when I first seen Showdown in Pewter Gym, so I didn't understand what Flint meant. So I didn't find this all a problem.