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KevinJ.
April 6th, 2007, 09:45 PM
Hi, I'm new here. I came here looking for some help and guidance. Let me first say that my family and I are devout followers of Christ. We believe that the Lord put us on this planet for a reason, and we do not believe in evolution. It has recently been brought to my attention that Pokemon, the game my son loves to play, is a major proponent of the theory of evolution. I don't want his mind to be tainted by that sort of thing, so I took his game away. He has barely stopped crying since. I don't know what I should do. As a parent, I want the best for my child. I want him to be happy. As a Christian, I want him to follow the ways of our Lord. I love him so much, I'm not sure if I can keep the game from him for much longer, but I feel I should remain strong. What do you people think I should do? Any suggestions? Thanks for reading.

Cherrim
April 6th, 2007, 09:50 PM
edit: Okay, people are being productive then. XD;

Personally, I think Pokémon is fine. Ignoring evolution, many aspects of it could actually foster Christian beliefs. The anime, for example, promotes friendship and togetherness. The games themselves show the importance of teamwork, to an extent. The evolution aspect itself isn't really evolution from a Darwinian standpoint...if you compare how evolution takes place and is referred to in the Pokémon series and contrast it to the actual theory of evolution, it doesn't match up. I know many, many devout Christians who also greatly enjoy Pokémon. I think your child can easily play the games and follow Christ, but in the end it is your own decision.

Maybe sit down and play the game with him, and see for yourself that way. And if you find anything questionable, you can clarify how it applies to your faith that way? Just throwing ideas out there. :x

dstaley
April 6th, 2007, 09:55 PM
As a Christian, I do not see anything wrong with Pokemon. I do not see how it supports the theory of evolution as in the context I believe you are putting it. Nowhere in the Pokemon series does it contradict the Bible in any way. Sure the term for when a pokemon changes is called "evolution", but it isn't in the context of the theory of evolution, the theory that all living things evolved from a common ancestor.

TRIFORCE89
April 6th, 2007, 10:06 PM
I don't know which Christian denomination you follow, so this may not apply to you. But, I just want to throw out there. In 2000, the Vatican announced that The Vatican has announced that Pokémon is “full of inventive imagination,” have no “harmful moral side effects” and celebrate “ties of intense friendship.”

Evolution in the Pokemon series is perhaps as far a way from the Darwinian meaning as you can get. It doesn't speak of a common ancestry, but rather a term to describe "changing over time". For instance, you have changed over time since you were a child. Pokemon grow in the games. You can look at it as baby, child, and adult is you wish.

dstaley
April 6th, 2007, 10:17 PM
After doing some light research, I've found that most claims of "PokeSatanism" are poorly based on loose interpretations:
"The whole idea behind Pokemon is to show a child that they can become a "powerful evil force, and they don't have to listen to their parents.'' Landover occult expert, Jonathan Edwards said. "Kids look for different Pokemon demons, find them and utilize their specific powers to create chaos in the home. It can be extremely violent, and the liberal media does not want anyone to know how many families have been torn apart since this menace began. The ultimate goal for a child is to collect them, and once they've collected all of them, they can have anything they wish for. In most cases, the child wishes for complete control over his entire family. The pokemons approach in the still of night, entering the parents mouths and lodging themselves in their tracheas until they suffocate. They then scurry off quietly and return to their masters bed. When authorities arrive, they are shocked to see no evidence of foul play. They observe only a smiling child, fast asleep, surrounded by stuffed animals and 'innocent little' Pokemons."

Now, who has heard of little plastic toys coming alive with the power of Satan and lodging themselves inside the throats of parents? I can see where some of the attacks are based, seeing as Pokemon have control over things like water and fire, but it isn't against God or his Teachings. What I suggest is researching Pokemon itself, avoiding anything that pits Pokemon and Christianity, as you will find idiotic claims like the one abouve. Then, form your own opinion based on the things you have been taught. I'm sure that you will find that Pokemon is no more evil than Barbies, or your collection of postage stamps.

KevinJ.
April 6th, 2007, 10:26 PM
That's strange, Dictionary.com defines "evolution" as:
ev·o·lu·tion /ˌɛvəˈluʃən or, especially Brit., ˌivə-/
–noun
1. any process of formation or growth; development


Evolution goes against the teachings of the Lord, and I just don't know if I'm okay with my son being exposed to that.

dstaley
April 6th, 2007, 10:36 PM
Ok, in that case, lets kill all humans, plants, and other living things because, based on that, we all go through evolution and therefore go against the word of God.

Now, seriously, Darwins Theory of Evolution is what goes against the Lord. The theory that all living things arose from a common ancestor (meaning that all living things "evolved" from one living thing). Now, the Bible states that God created Man, and then all the animals.

Think of Pokemon as a Caterpillar. First, it is born as a worm like creature, once it reaches a certain point in it's life, it goes into a cocoon, and then comes out as a butterfly, something that looks nothing like the original Caterpillar, but, is the caterpillar nonetheless. Pokemon is the same way. The Pokemon goes through stages of it's life. Each stage is termed an "evolution". This is where I believe you are getting your mind set from.

Frostweaver
April 6th, 2007, 10:47 PM
That's strange, Dictionary.com defines "evolution" as:
ev·o·lu·tion /ˌɛvəˈluʃən or, especially Brit., ˌivə-/
–noun
1. any process of formation or growth; development


Evolution goes against the teachings of the Lord, and I just don't know if I'm okay with my son being exposed to that.

Dictionary.com got to be the worse place for definitions -_-;

Really, have to understand the context of a word, along with its denotation and connotation... In this case, as everyone pointed out, is simply growth and change. Surely your son DOES GROW as well.

Evolution has many different meanings. Only one of the many is truly in conflict. I'm a Christian myself, and certainly see "potentials" where Pokemon is definitely dangerous... and it's not evolving. Ghost and Psychic Pokemon ought to be the most 'problematic' crew out there...

For Ghost and Psychic types, it'll just depends on how you treat the line for invention. There are parents who refuse to say, let their kids play with anything that got wizards and magic involved, because in real life they are certainly not acceptable. However, some people thinks that it's all part of imagination.


Personally, I think that if it doesn't hinder your faith or demote it, then it is fine to do so. If the concept of evolution in Pokemon, even after explanation, seems to be promoting ideas against the Bible, then best to separate from it under an understanding is reached. If it doesn't hinder the faith and an understanding that it's all part of someone's imagination to have these game mechanics/anime ideas, then it's just fine...

To me, it all depends on whether or not the person in question can think of them as "purely imagination only" or not.

Feel free to PM me about it if you question me or thinks that I'm wrong... I prefer to only talk of this matter through PM from now on, just because I am already not liking the atmosphere of this place to talk about this matter =/

(asking a Pokemon board if Pokemon is ok? totally not biased, yes *nods*)

Amachi
April 6th, 2007, 10:50 PM
That's strange, Dictionary.com defines "evolution" as:
ev·o·lu·tion /ˌɛvəˈluʃən or, especially Brit., ˌivə-/
–noun
1. any process of formation or growth; development


Evolution goes against the teachings of the Lord, and I just don't know if I'm okay with my son being exposed to that.
By that particular definition then, you should be against all forms of education as well. Or excercise. Or by just experiencing the world around you.

Look, it's up to you to decide what's right or wrong for your child. Others can make suggestions and guide you (eg game and film ratings), but ultimately it's up to you.

And you're also overlooking the mild gambling reference depicted in the series XD

dstaley
April 6th, 2007, 10:56 PM
Personally, I think that if it doesn't hinder your faith or demote it, then it is fine to do so. If the concept of evolution in Pokemon, even after explanation, seems to be promoting ideas against the Bible, then best to separate from it under an understanding is reached. If it doesn't hinder the faith and an understanding that it's all part of someone's imagination to have these game mechanics/anime ideas, then it's just fine...

To me, it all depends on whether or not the person in question can think of them as "purely imagination only" or not.

I totally agree. If you can firmly state to your son that it isn't real, and that it's fake, then by all means go ahead. If you believe that the concept of changing over time goes against the teachings of the Bible, then stand by that. God created us in his image, to be creative and imaginative as we see fit. Therefore, only you can determine what is right and wrong for your child.

Cherrim
April 6th, 2007, 10:57 PM
That's strange, Dictionary.com defines "evolution" as:
ev·o·lu·tion /ˌɛvəˈluʃən or, especially Brit., ˌivə-/
–noun
1. any process of formation or growth; development


Evolution goes against the teachings of the Lord, and I just don't know if I'm okay with my son being exposed to that.
A child's growth from baby to toddler to young adult would then be classified as evolution. I think that definition is far too broad. As far as I know, Christianity is only in opposition to Darwin's theory of evolution, which does not constitute natural growth and development. Evolution in Pokémon more closely mimics "evolution" in humans, in the sense that as they gain more experience, they change and adapt to their surroundings. They become stronger/smarter from what they learn, just like humans do with natural life experience.

Frostweaver
April 6th, 2007, 11:06 PM
... is an understanding about the issue reached yet? I'm just dying to press the PM button to call a mod to get this thing locked actually... As much as I love to help in answering questions if I can, there's something with this thread that I greatly detest for reasons not to be stated, and will like to close it before my worries come true...

Yeah... =/

dstaley
April 6th, 2007, 11:12 PM
I can see where you are coming from, but I do not see any reason (yet) why this should be closed, as it serves a reference to those that are confused about the Christian and Pokemon controversy. Since It seems we are all being civilized, intelligent people, I see no reason for this to be closed.

Cherrim
April 6th, 2007, 11:14 PM
I'd reported it earlier Frosty, but it only got moved to this forum since there's nothing in the rules that bars this. Plus, discussions gone on better than I'd predicted, so...it stays open for now I guess. :\

Frostweaver
April 7th, 2007, 01:33 AM
I can see where you are coming from, but I do not see any reason (yet) why this should be closed, as it serves a reference to those that are confused about the Christian and Pokemon controversy. Since It seems we are all being civilized, intelligent people, I see no reason for this to be closed.

Actually... I'm already pretty intended to disagree on some of this >>;

Oh, I'm kinda asking this to be closed not because it has already broken PC rules, Lighty, but rather for the fact that there's some perky little things here that will cause some fast thinking people to raise an eyebrow... heh.

No offense, but no I'm pretty sure only Niko and no one else sees where I'm coming from to ask this to be closed >>; I'm not only worried about the obvious flame bait, but more than that...

Of course, if the thread maker gives the consent, this thread can always be closed before it breaks any rule =P *cough coughplzcough cough*

TRIFORCE89
April 7th, 2007, 05:15 AM
I would also like to point out that Nintendo is just about the most family-friendly gaming company out there. They have about the intentions of discrediting any religious faith as Disney does - so slim to none. In Japan, Christianity isn't as widespread as it is in Western world. However, many Chirstian symbols appear in Japanese games purely out of interest. I don't think there is anything like this in the Pokemon series (maybe the cemetary in Lavender. That's all I can think off). Nintendo does prohibit games from being released here that (while acceptable for Japanese markets) may offend people here.

An example is the game Devil World (or Demon World). It was released in Japan in 1984. It had such Christian symbols as the crucifix and Bible. The name sounds intimidating but you were actually trying to stop the Devil. You played as a little green dragon. Essentially the game was a Pac-Man graphic swap. But it was not brought here as it could've offended someone (which were not the original intentions, as I stated earlier about Christianity in Japanese games).

I don't think the Pokemon games have any intentions of undermining your son's religious beliefs. It is very much a Japanese game, but the term "evolution" is used loosely. It simply refers to the development of Pokemon. You have a Pokemon egg and it hatches. As that newborn Pokemon becomes stronger and you befriend it, it grows, and changes over time. That's all evolution is in Pokemon.

Animehero
April 7th, 2007, 05:40 AM
That's strange, Dictionary.com defines "evolution" as:
ev·o·lu·tion /ˌɛvəˈluʃən or, especially Brit., ˌivə-/
–noun
1. any process of formation or growth; development


Evolution goes against the teachings of the Lord, and I just don't know if I'm okay with my son being exposed to that.
I'm sorry, but why are you so paranoid!? Did you have a bad child life experience or something. Of all fungames out there Pokemon is the most child friendly. How can you be an adult? Because you EVOLVED!! Pokemon has nothing against christians! The way I see it, it's toochild friendly. I like how you just want the best for your child, but relax, I promise your child will not be taken over by satan and become a wannabe gangster only to be shot at 19. Trust me, I've been playing pokemon for a lllooonnnggg time and I'm the most well behaved class-like, and at home. (You should see my dad)...

KevinJ.
April 7th, 2007, 06:10 AM
I don't know why my discussion would even be considered to get "locked." I'm came here to get another perspective on an issue dealing with my son, and get threatened to be "locked." It's obvious I'm on a forum of immature people. Acting this way does not speak well for your side of the issue.

Animehero
April 7th, 2007, 06:27 AM
Fine, make your son miserable, stay paranoid for the rest of your life, go sit in a corner for the rest of your life, I don't care. Evolution is all around us! My dad's a bishop and he see's nothing wrong with it.

Cherrim
April 7th, 2007, 07:26 AM
I don't know why my discussion would even be considered to get "locked." I'm came here to get another perspective on an issue dealing with my son, and get threatened to be "locked." It's obvious I'm on a forum of immature people. Acting this way does not speak well for your side of the issue.
I did say this before I edited my first post with a more...relevant remark, but this is a forum dedicated solely to Pokémon. As former staff, I can say that a closure of a thread isn't meant to insult or anything, but is simply in your best interest assuming this thread gets out of hand since, as I'm sure you know, religion can be a touchy subject. That's all we mean when we talk about closing things--we just don't want anyone to get hurt.

Now, on that note, I'll remind you of the subject matter of this forum. Almost everyone here joined and posts on this forum because it's a Pokémon forum. People here play the games, watch the show, collect the cards, etc. Thus, you're going to get some very biased answers if you ask a question like that here because for the most part, none of us have any qualms with the game. If you're looking for someone else to play devil's advocate and talk about the negative aspects of Pokémon, I'd suggest you look in another forum since I don't think that will happen here.

Ichida
April 7th, 2007, 07:39 AM
It's just a video game after all. The point of video games is to twist reality in order to entertain. Well, except for games like The Sims, which I don't find entertaining at all. :P

Pokemon is just a video game, as well as a means of friendly competition with friends who also play. Without something entertaining, how do you expect your son to grow up mentally balanced? All work and no play makes Jesus a dull boy.

Of course, this is all an agnostic's point of view, so you probably will just ignore me anyways.

Lt. Surge's Raichu
April 7th, 2007, 07:56 AM
I think you should let him play the game.
He has to be entertained in a way to also grow in mental strength :)

Trainer Kat
April 7th, 2007, 08:05 AM
I've never had any bad experience with Pokemon. The original game came out, what, 10 years ago, so that would have made me 8. I don't know how old your son is, but I'm sure he could handle it, especially since the game is rated 'E' for everyone.
Now, as for the question of whether or not your son will turn away from your faith, I can't imagine that this game could turn him away from Christianity. I'm not religious at all myself, but I do attend a Catholic high school, so my opinions aren't completely biased, and I do know what I'm talking about.
Your son most likely will be exposed to the Theory of Evolution in one of his science courses, so the issue will have to be addressed. Even at my school, which, as I mentioned, is Catholic, we've been presented both sides of the issue.
Like the others have stated, Pokemon in no way undermines Christianity. It is, in essence, like a caterpillar changing to a butterfly. The game is quite suitable for younger audiences, and it's certainly more conducive to a Christian environment than some of the other games he could be playing (Shin Megami Tensei, anyone?).

I propose you return his game, but only after you talk to him about it. It would obviously be better to teach him your beliefs than to let him learn it from another source. That way, he can get his game, and you are also affirming that he knows that it is only make believe. Chances are, he'll listen. :]
I didn't post this to undermine your beliefs, nor am I in any way harassing you to give him his game. Ultimately, the decision rests with you. So...I hope this post helped. :]

Sammi
April 7th, 2007, 08:12 AM
Fine, make your son miserable, stay paranoid for the rest of your life, go sit in a corner for the rest of your life, I don't care. Evolution is all around us! My dad's a bishop and he see's nothing wrong with it.

Calm down. People have different views on Pokémon and religion; it's not something to get offended or angry over.

I'm no parent, and I will warn you that I'm not a very good Christian, so maybe my advice won't be what you're looking for. I'll give you my thoughts anyway, just in case you're interested.

Does your child see 'evolution' in a Pokémon sense applicable in real life? I don't see any problems until they see Pokémon evolution as how it works in real life. If that time would come, that's when you would sit down and tell them what the Lord teaches and what Pokémon says, and what everyone else teaches, is wrong. I mean, temptation and wrong teachings are always around us, especially in today's era with the Internet. You'll have to talk to them about evolution someday, no matter where the discussion comes from; it just might happen that Pokémon is what starts the discussion.

If your child knows that God created him or her and nothing else about evolution is true, then what's the harm in letting them play Pokémon?

Jeremy
April 7th, 2007, 08:28 AM
I never thought I'll see this 10 year old argument again.

In Pokémon, the evolution doesn't mean grow and change to adapt the surrounding areas, nor does it mean they have came from microscopic organisms . Evolution in the game is more like how a baby grows up to be a adult.

The only thing Pokémon teaches is friendship and teamwork.

Well, I'm Catholic, and I play Pokémon, and I believe in God. I don't see the problem.

TRIFORCE89
April 7th, 2007, 08:54 AM
Let's look at it this way. The Christian faith has evolved over the years. It has changed and adapted, it is continuing to do so. That, is fine. Learning, growing, etc. I don't think there's anything against that in the faith.

Perhaps, rather than say "evolution" we should say Darwinism. I think that's what you're concerned about. If the Darwinian belief that we as humans evolved from another species is present in the Pokemon games. That conflicts with the Christian belief that we're all God's creations. The whole Adam and Eve story. Although, I think some denominations have somewhat accepted evolution. I know that the Catholic church accepts the "Big Bang" theory. Not entirely related to evolution, but a contrast to the creation story depicted in Genesis nonetheless. Doesn't hinder the belief that we're God's creations though.

There is nothing about Creationism or Darwinism in the Pokemon games. If anything, it is slightly hinted that Pokemon came from the moon (in this game world in which the games take place). Some Pokemon's ability to "evolve" (or "change") through means other than strength, love, or friendship can be attributed to this (in a plot sense. But, nothing more). These Pokemon "evolve" when traded with another player or when in contact with a certain item. It is purely a gameplay device and nothing. Darwinism doesn't even state that evolution works the way it is presented in Pokemon. It is completely different.

Pokemon is fantasy and fun. You appear to be highly religious. Surely you must be familiar with the old television show, Davey and Goliath? The program is produced by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. That show too is fantasy. While it teaches excellent morales, it does feature a talking dog - and that's how Pokemon is. It is fantasy and it is fun; especially for children.

Dogboy2709
April 7th, 2007, 09:06 AM
Seeing as i'm Also Catholic, and i also play Pokémon, I don't see whats the problem.

I say let him play Pokémon. He will problary grow out of it in the later years of his life.

Pokémon can also teach your child to be friends to everybody around them.
Pokémon also teaches about Teamwork!

It says nothing in the bible that childern of the lord cannot play games which defiy his teaches

I should know. i go to chuirch (almost) every Sunday, and never heard anything about that.
There is no way your son is going to get his mind taken over by satan (Which i don not belive in, anyway) just by playing Pokémon.

KevinJ.
April 7th, 2007, 09:13 AM
I am just not sure that I'm comfortable with blatantly exposing my son to a theory that our religion so explicitly denies. I came into the kitchen this morning to see my son on a chair, trying to get the Pokemon game that I took away from him and put on top of the refrigerator. This really upset me, and I think things may have gotten out of hand. I punished him with a few spankings and sent him to his room, and that just made matters worse. Now he's started crying again and I feel like I cannot win. Whoever said parenting is easy is foolish.

dstaley
April 7th, 2007, 09:17 AM
I am just not sure that I'm comfortable with blatantly exposing my son to a theory that our religion so explicitly denies. I came into the kitchen this morning to see my son on a chair, trying to get the Pokemon game that I took away from him and put on top of the refrigerator. This really upset me, and I think things may have gotten out of hand. I punished him with a few spankings and sent him to his room, and that just made matters worse. Now he's started crying again and I feel like I cannot win. Whoever said parenting is easy is foolish.

KevinJ. so that we all are on the same page, would you please explain in detail why you think Pokemon goes against God. You've stated that it teaches "evolution", but to me it seems you haven't taken it into your own hands to find out what this means in the game. So, in order for us to explain it in the best way, we need to know EXACTLY why you think Pokemon is wrong.

Rageman
April 7th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Alright, I'm on dstaley's page. If you think you can't handle the video game, because it teaches pretty much friendship, working together, and everything will change, I can't wait untill you crucify your son for hitting puberty. :D

dstaley
April 7th, 2007, 09:54 AM
Alright, I'm on dstaley's page. If you think you can't handle the video game, because it teaches pretty much friendship, working together, and everything will change, I can't wait untill you crucify your son for hitting puberty. :D

Please refrain from using figures of speech such as that one, doing so will not help the cause, and can only result in a flame war.

Animehero
April 7th, 2007, 10:09 AM
I am just not sure that I'm comfortable with blatantly exposing my son to a theory that our religion so explicitly denies. I came into the kitchen this morning to see my son on a chair, trying to get the Pokemon game that I took away from him and put on top of the refrigerator. This really upset me, and I think things may have gotten out of hand. I punished him with a few spankings and sent him to his room, and that just made matters worse. Now he's started crying again and I feel like I cannot win. Whoever said parenting is easy is foolish.
That's another example why you should give him the game! Pokemon has nothing against christiananity. I sure just because he plays pokemon doesn't mean he's going to heck.

dstaley
April 7th, 2007, 10:16 AM
That's another example why you should give him the game! Pokemon has nothing against Christianity. I sure just because he plays Pokémon doesn't mean he's going to heck.

Yes, but he doesn't want to subject his son to something he doesn't believe in. That's like putting a piece of paper near a fire. (NOTE: I'm not contradicting what I've said, I do not believe ANY aspect of Pokémon goes against Christianity. I am simply stating where he is coming from.)

Sammi
April 7th, 2007, 10:19 AM
Alright, I'm on dstaley's page. If you think you can't handle the video game, because it teaches pretty much friendship, working together, and everything will change, I can't wait untill you crucify your son for hitting puberty. :D

Let's not go there. At all. -_-;

People, please, if you are going to post, post reasonably. Religion is a sensitive topic; please think before you post. You might offend people.

Rageman
April 7th, 2007, 01:19 PM
Let's not go there. At all. -_-;

People, please, if you are going to post, post reasonably. Religion is a sensitive topic; please think before you post. You might offend people.

Yet, It's okay to badmouth Pokemon and call it "Satanic", but when you tell them off and use a religious term, nooooooo. I'll stop.

Trainer Kat
April 7th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Yet, It's okay to badmouth Pokemon and call it "Satanic", but when you tell them off and use a religious term, nooooooo. I'll stop.

But calling Pokemon "Satanic" has nothing to do with religion, only ignorance. I mean, last I knew of, Pokemon wasn't a religion. People don't pray to Pikachu. Then again, I could be a bit behind..O.o
Besides, the topic creator didn't call Pokemon "Satanic", nor did he badmouth it, really. He just voiced his concerns about allowing his son to play the game. With all the inappropriate games [Shin Megami Tensei<3], he has every right to check the game. Better than the parents who blindly buy their kids Grand Theft Auto, I suppose.

Max210
April 7th, 2007, 03:20 PM
Truly, most people at my church don't care about Pokemon. I always thought the Pokemon elvolve stuff as their puberty. And the only way the can is if the get to a certian level. So, they do grow up. You just got to explain to you child that the Pokemon are growing, not evolving.

Trainer Kris
April 7th, 2007, 04:50 PM
KevinJ, listen. Pokemon isn't about religion, or any of that stuff. It's about friendship and working together, helping the pokemon become stronger and the player more skilled at defeating opponents. Later in the game, your pokemon level up to a point where it begins to evolve, which is just another word for maturing into a stronger form, kind of like baby ---> child --->Adult. hmm, see what I'm trying to say is...

Its only a video game that your child enjoys, and as he grows up I'm sure he'll follow in his fathers footsteps and follow the christian way. One video game, I don't think, will change any beliefs that he has. Your son was only having fun, really. And I'm sure there are other christians on this forum who enjoy pokemon too. Its not meant to offend or go against beliefs. Do you really want your son to cry because you're taking away something he enjoys? Please think about giving his game back. Only trying to help...

Neko
April 7th, 2007, 05:45 PM
I am just not sure that I'm comfortable with blatantly exposing my son to a theory that our religion so explicitly denies. I came into the kitchen this morning to see my son on a chair, trying to get the Pokemon game that I took away from him and put on top of the refrigerator. This really upset me, and I think things may have gotten out of hand. I punished him with a few spankings and sent him to his room, and that just made matters worse. Now he's started crying again and I feel like I cannot win. Whoever said parenting is easy is foolish.

-___- Ok well first off, y'all need to just calm down.

A GAME.

A GAME.


A G.A.M.E!!!!!!!11

Did I make myself clear enough? Ok then. :)

Well to tell you the truth, I'm raised Catholic, though from what I learned in S.S I guess I take after my mom more (who was raised Lutheran).

I really wouldn't think God would mind if your son played a stupid game. I don't really think playing a game has..anything that ties into believing in evolution IN REAL LIFE or not. I mean..if it really bothers you why not just explain to him that it's a GAME and that evolution doesn't..exist in real life? But only if it bothers you that much, which I see it does though. -.-;

Besides, like everyone else has said before, it really doesn't tie into the evolution you're thinking about anyways. It's..a different kind. So I think you should just let him play it and forget about the whole thing. I mean, it's really not that serious of an issue (A FRIKIN' GAME*cough*) And I don't care if it's Pokemon-I would say that if you were talking about ANY G-rated game really. << If it was really as bad as you're making it out to be I don't think they would even have it in stores now.

Besides, why would God even be mad if he was just playing a GAME??? *couchhackhack* I'm sure you son would still believe in God-it's not like he'd stop as soon as he started playing.

Urg. I have a migrain now. >_______> Sorry if this post is kinda hard to understand...

Drew
April 7th, 2007, 05:50 PM
Hmm... I don't want to get too involved in this... x_x That, and I lack time right now.

But really, I've always thought of the 'evolution' in Pokemon as more of a 'magic' type of thing, as apposed to being just like human evolution.

I have friends that are Christian, and they like Pokemon, they use to play it all the time.

Thats all I have time to say at the moment.
Its just, the thought of someone taking Pokemon away from a child sounds horrible to me... ^^;

Sparks
April 7th, 2007, 06:20 PM
This reminds me of the school issue in Kansas where the school took away all copies of the game from the kids who bought them and burned them, then got their butts sued off big time.

Anyway, I'm going to place my money that you really havn't experenced the game yourself. Everything evolves in the real world, as your pokemon do in the game. Does the game say that pokemon were connected to a common animal like a monkey or something? No. Darwins' theory states that, yet the pokemon games do not. They put evolvution as a common thing that all living creatures go through in life, including humans. Using his theory as a base to condem a game actually makes no sense, since then you would have to condem yourself for the same thing your condeming. Natural evolution of both man and beast, the way that it was intended to be viewed as. Look at the world of today, we're all changing in some small form. Just using evoultion as a base, I'd say then that every human would be at fault with god then. If that made any sense at all in any form. Pokemon is a game based on trust and friendship. Actually some people only evolve BASED on how much they like you. If that isn't proof of friendship in the game, then I don't know what is.

Your son isn't going to turn into a goth-emo person or start doing rituals by playing a game. In fact if your going to trust your child playing any game; Nintendo is the best, and most family styled company out there. Sit down with a copy of Mario Party and see what I mean.

Here's what I suggest. First go look up the pokemon version of evolving on wikipedia, then sit down with your child and watch him play the game. In time you'll see that the game wasn't ment to be offensive to any religion or be taken offensive by any religion. I've got tons of friends who were in the same boat you are in when the games first came out, and nothing bad happened to affect their viewpoints on their religion by playing the game. There's a poll on the net somewhere proving this, but I don't have the link at this time.

Kayleigh
April 7th, 2007, 07:43 PM
As a fellow Christian who takes her faith very seriously, I can understand exactly why you would be concerned about this. I'm completely against Darwin's evolution theory--and obviously wouldn't play the Pokémon games if I thought that they supported it!

However... I've been playing them since I was around 9 or 10, and I know that none of the games mention anything about humans evolving, at all. As for the Pokemon, their transformations should be compared more to metamorphosis, rather than evolution. (The latter word may have been chosen because it was easier for kids to say, I guess?) They simply grow as you continue to train them; there's nothing satanic about it.

At first, it was a bit hard for me to convince my mom that this was true after she found out about the evolution thing, and I could understand why. It's not something that a Christian should take lightly. However, after explaining things to her, she now has no problem with it. She understands that there are a lot of things in the Pokemon games that actually help me to become a better Christian, too--and that they are certainly some of the best games for children to be playing these days, compared to most others that are out now.

The only way that I think it, as well as all kinds of other things in this world, could affect your son negatively would be if he wasn't grounded in his Christian faith. As long as you continue to teach him all about God's Word, then he'll understand the difference between right and wrong and will be less likely to make bad decisions in his life. He also has to be taught that it's all just a game, before he gets too wrapped up in it. You seem to be doing all that you can to make sure that this happens, though, so I don't think you really have anything to be worried about! :D

In the end, it is your decision, and if you decide that it's not appropriate for your son to be playing the game then there's nothing wrong with that. I just wanted to say that from a Christian point-of-view, I think it's harmless.

Animehero
April 7th, 2007, 08:19 PM
As a fellow Christian who takes her faith very seriously, I can understand exactly why you would be concerned about this. I'm completely against Darwin's evolution theory--and obviously wouldn't play the Pokémon games if I thought that they supported it!

However... I've been playing them since I was around 9 or 10, and I know that none of the games mention anything about humans evolving, at all. As for the Pokemon, their transformations should be compared more to metamorphosis, rather than evolution. (The latter word may have been chosen because it was easier for kids to say, I guess?) They simply grow as you continue to train them; there's nothing satanic about it.

At first, it was a bit hard for me to convince my mom that this was true after she found out about the evolution thing, and I could understand why. It's not something that a Christian should take lightly. However, after explaining things to her, she now has no problem with it. She understands that there are a lot of things in the Pokemon games that actually help me to become a better Christian, too--and that they are certainly some of the best games for children to be playing these days, compared to most others that are out now.

The only way that I think it, as well as all kinds of other things in this world, could affect your son negatively would be if he wasn't grounded in his Christian faith. As long as you continue to teach him all about God's Word, then he'll understand the difference between right and wrong and will be less likely to make bad decisions in his life. He also has to be taught that it's all just a game, before he gets too wrapped up in it. You seem to be doing all that you can to make sure that this happens, though, so I don't think you really have anything to be worried about! :D

In the end, it is your decision, and if you decide that it's not appropriate for your son to be playing the game then there's nothing wrong with that. I just wanted to say that from a Christian point-of-view, I think it's harmless.
That was a great way of putting it! And she's right. I remember when I got pokemon my parent's said it was a no, no. But we all sat down and had a conversation about how it was just growing up!

Dr. SmoothSeks
April 7th, 2007, 09:06 PM
Any suggestions?

Yeah. Don't breed. Oh, wait, you already did that. Then kill your kid and don't ever breed again.

Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with Pokemon. Evolution is not unbiblical. There is not one part of the bible that says evolution didn't happen. It says God created everything. That could mean God caused evolution. Therefore, evolution is not unbiblical. Let your kid have his damn game.

See? Everybody's happy. Evolutionists can believe what they want to believe, creationists can believe what they want to believe, and, most importantly, your kid can play his game.

And just a parting thought; it's illogical to say that evolution has never happened in any way, shape, or form and call it biblical. It's illogical to say it anyway, but really, don't say it's biblical. You give people a bad impression of you and your religion if you say things like that, and I'm sure that's not what you want.

Another problem, solved in a puff of logic.

Animehero
April 7th, 2007, 09:36 PM
Yeah. Don't breed. Oh, wait, you already did that. Then kill your kid and don't ever breed again.
That is quite unnesisary. Plus your name is innaproprate.

KevinJ.
April 7th, 2007, 09:37 PM
Yeah. Don't breed. Oh, wait, you already did that. Then kill your kid and don't ever breed again.



My valid question was under consideration for being "locked" and people that make HORRIBLE remarks like this don't get banned?! This is THE MOST OFFENSIVE THING THAT HAS EVER BEEN SAID TO ME.

Animehero
April 7th, 2007, 09:40 PM
My valid question was under consideration for being "locked" and people that make HORRIBLE remarks like this don't get banned?! This is THE MOST OFFENSIVE THING THAT HAS EVER BEEN SAID TO ME. Tsk, I've been held at gun point...

KevinJ.
April 7th, 2007, 09:42 PM
Tsk, I've been held at gun point...

I wasn't aware this was a contest. I question the validity of that statement anyway.

Dr. SmoothSeks
April 7th, 2007, 09:42 PM
It was a joke. Do I need to start using the tags? Did you not see the "seriously though" at the beginning of the next sentence?

And Animehero, my name is not inappropriate. I could explain it, but that's not the topic at hand, now is it?

KevinJ.
April 7th, 2007, 09:49 PM
It was a joke. Do I need to start using the tags? Did you not see the "seriously though" at the beginning of the next sentence?

And Animehero, my name is not inappropriate. I could explain it, but that's not the topic at hand, now is it?

Jokes are supposed to be funny, maybe you missed that important qualifier. There are some things you just don't joke about. That "joke" was in very poor taste, and I request that a moderator punish you.

Dr. SmoothSeks
April 7th, 2007, 09:57 PM
O_o

Overreaction much? Funny or not, it was a joke. As in, not serious. I shudder to think what you would do if I had actually tried to insult you.

Gary, the Magic Fairy
April 7th, 2007, 10:51 PM
That "joke" was in very poor taste, and I request that a moderator punish you.
Doesn't the Bible say not to judge others?

Also, you should really read all the long, explanatory posts people have made instead of ignoring them and only focusing on how one poster should be 'punished' and complaining about getting your thread locked.

As others have said, pokemon does nothing against Christianity.

Melody
April 7th, 2007, 11:35 PM
I agree with Kenji-kun. It says in the bible not to Judge. It also says you should forgive your neighbor or in this context fellow community member. Someone has already pointed out to the offensive posters that they should hold their tounge in this subject and refrain from thse offensive remarks.
This is a very touchy subject so ill keep it to the point.

Put yourself in your son's shoes. How do you think he is gonna feel about it?
taking the game away from him will push him away and may prevent him from listening to you when you do teach him about god. And to say that god says "playing pokemon is bad" will only push him further away from god and religion. which i am sure you dont want. All it takes is a little research to prove to yourself that Pokemon does not support Darwinisim and does not contain any questionable content.
Feel free to PM me If you wish to discuss this with me. I wont post more than I have to because when the dodie hits the fan I'm not gonna be here to partake in the ensuing flame war...

Dont get me wrong, I honestly think This should stay open until the flame war actually starts. The Thread's creator Wouldnt have it any other way. And i dont blame him. He is a Christan seeking other Christan pokemon players who have studied more on pokemon. Dont Scold him for starting a thread that is controversial he is merely seeking moral guidance...

Sammi
April 8th, 2007, 12:03 AM
...Dr. SmoothSeks, you really should be more careful. This isn't the first time I've seen you get into arguments. -_-;; It was a joke, but just... no. That isn't something you should joke about. People get hurt and offended, especially if they think it's serious.

The current argument stops here. I don't want to see another thing on it, nor any other off-topic argument for that matter, otherwise I'm handing out warnings.

Neko
April 8th, 2007, 04:05 AM
Why don't you just close this thread instead? I mean really, what's the point of it if the owner of it isn't gonna listen anyways? (He only seemed to listen to the few little brats making rude remarks in here to him, pssht). All this thread is is wasted space. Pretty soon it's gonna be filled with a billion posts trying to explain WHY it's ok to play the game and the owner's not gonna listen to any one of those (Oh wait, hasn't that already happened?) Well ok then, next should be fights breaking out and then a billion more posts on why we should close this totally pointless thread. ;P Can't we just skip a few steps already? I mean, of all the time I've been here usually these threads end up closed anyway, right? -_____-

(Btw is this considered an argument? Cause it was supposed to be more like a suggestion...but w/e. If it is just give me a warning and I'll know for next time (and I am being serious) just in case..)

Animehero
April 8th, 2007, 04:28 AM
Yeah, KevinJ's probably left the forum by now.

DarkDoom3000
April 8th, 2007, 04:51 AM
ya thaking it away might make ur son think the worng way::

"because of Christianity, my dad took my pokemon game away from me!"

Max210
April 8th, 2007, 05:24 AM
My valid question was under consideration for being "locked" and people that make HORRIBLE remarks like this don't get banned?! This is THE MOST OFFENSIVE THING THAT HAS EVER BEEN SAID TO ME.

That is pretty offensive... Some people are rude here. Just ignore them.

Pazuzu
April 8th, 2007, 07:01 AM
http://scizz.com/pw/holdit.gif

I think we're done here.

KevinJ, you have been given many valuable answers to your questions and concerns, sadly many that only get repeated the longer this thread stays open.
If you take these answers into consideration, maybe read them a few times and try to understand the view of the poster, I am sure you can find a way that is satisfying for both, you and your child.

You have also witnessed how stupid and immature some people can be, especially on the topic of religion and beliefs, but I can assure you that we won't leave any disrespect towards a member in that way unpunished.

So, before this gets more out of hand, I'm putting an end to this discussion.

~closed~