Begginer's D/P team

[Mizuken]

This is an in game team that I expect to see plenty of revisions. Here it goes.
PLZ rate

Empoleon
Mild
-Drill peck
-Brine or Surf
-Flash Canon
-Ice beam

Abomasnow
Adamant
-Woodhammer
-Earthquake
-Ice punch
-Ingrain

Claydol
Sassy
-toxic
-cosmic power
-rest
-psychic or rapid spin

Honchkrow
Jolly
-night slash
-areal ace
-Double team or haze
-Swagger or Thunder Wave

Giratina
Naughty
-Dragon claw
-Shadow claw
-Aura sphere
-Will-o-wisp

Edit: Ninjask
Naive or Hasty
-substitute
-sword dance
-baton pass
-silver wind or dig

[Iceman3k]

*start electricfield
This is an in game team that I expect to see plenty of revisions. Here it goes.
PLZ rate

Empoleon
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Agility
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Flash Cannon
- Ice beam
The only thing Empoleon will ever be good at is Special Sweeping.

Abomasnow
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
-Wood Hammer
-Earthquake / Focus Punch
-Ice Beam
-Substitute
Ingrain only lures in Charizard. Ingrain is useless anyway.

Claydol
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Reflect
- Land Power / Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
I'd prolly run mine with Earthquake.

Honchkrow
Jolly
- night slash
- Drill Peck
- Haze
- Thunder Wave
Hax moves are for fags.

Giratina
Naughty
-Dragon claw
-Shadow claw
-Aura sphere
-Will-o-wisp
Dunno what I can do for you here.

Edit: Ninjask
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
-substitute
-sword dance
-baton pass
-silver wind or dig
Ninjask sucks anyway. No point in using it IMO.
This team desperately screams for Tyranitar and/or Gyarados to do a gang-bang sex job on it.
*end electricfield

[Mizuken]

Instead of ninjask how about..

Lucario
-close combat
-extreme speed
-sword dance
-flash canon

[Samson]

abomasnow's new ability will draw a snow storm which makes Blizzard's accuracy 100%, so be sure to go for that rather ice beam.

also, flash cannon is a special attack. why not abuse swords dance? i'd go for either stone edge, blaze kick or crunch.

[Mizuken]

Due to the theoretical lack of tm's and possibly laziness, would these revised movesets be fine?


Empoleon
Modest
-Flash canon
-Brine or Surf
-Agility
-Ice beam

Abomasnow
brave
-Woodhammer
-Earthquake
-blizzard
-substitute

Claydol
Sassy
-earth power
-reflect
-rapid spin
-grass knot or ice beam

Honchkrow
Jolly
-night slash
-drill peck
-haze
-Thunder Wave

Giratina
Naughty
-Dragon claw
-Shadow claw
-Aura sphere
-Will-o-wisp

Lucario
adamant
-close combat
-extremespeed
-sword dance
-stone edge *I was also thinking maybe I should make a special lucario instead.*

[Iceman3k]

Due to the theoretical lack of tm's and possibly laziness, would these revised movesets be fine?


Empoleon
Modest
-Flash canon
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Agility
-Ice beam
Okay

Abomasnow
brave
-Woodhammer
-Earthquake
-blizzard / Ice Beam
-substitute
Unless it's a D/P only feature, far as I understand Hail doesn't make Blizzard 100% accurate. Besides, you're going to have Sandstorm to worry about.

Claydol
Sassy
-earth power
-reflect
-rapid spin
-Ice Beam
Stick with Ice Beam.

Honchkrow
Jolly
-night slash
-drill peck
-haze
-Thunder Wave
Okay.

Giratina
Naughty
-Dragon claw
-Shadow claw
-Aura sphere
-Will-o-wisp
Still leaving this one alone

Lucario
adamant
-close combat
-extremespeed
-sword dance
-stone edge *I was also thinking maybe I should make a special lucario instead.*
Replace this with Heracross IMO.
I dunno if Honchkrow will do you any good, so I'd probably replace that with LS Zapdos. This is what I run:

Zapdos @ Leftovers ** Raiden
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 136 Spd / 96 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Roost
- Light Screen

EDIT: How stupid of me not to mention a good Heracross set =(

Heracross (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 76 HP / 180 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
This dude wrecks a LOT more than Lucario will ever hope to do.

[White Lotus]

Empoleon w/Leftovers
'Torrent' : Ups (Water) attacks when HP is low.
<Bold : +Def / -Att>
* Surf
* Ice Beam
* Grass Knot
* Yawn / * Stealth Rock

<This is the Anti~Bulky Water / Bulky Water. *Yawn helps you usher in Choicers who may not be able to switch in any more due to low health. It also works as a Psuedo~Haze. *Stealth Rock is just general team support.>

Abomasnow w/Adherence Glasses
'Snowstorm' : Weather is changed to *Hail.
<Modest : +Sat / -Att>
* Blizzard
* Energy Ball
* Focus Blast
* HP(Electric) / * Shadowball

<*Blizzard is 100% in *Hail in D/P. It's really the only reason to use this guy. His double STAB is a nasty combo. You won't need to worry about *Sandstorm since *Hail will cancel it out. If a Tyranitar / Hipowdon switches in on you - you should switch out anyway since you are Choiced.>

Claydol w/Leftovers
'Levitate' : Immune to (Ground) attacks.
<Bold : +Def / -Att>
* Earth Power
* Ice Beam
* Rapid Spin
* Stealth Rock / * Reflect

<I prefer *Stealth Rock but Whateva Man. *Rapid Spinners are less valuable InGame but it's your team.>

Honchkrow - I'm clueless.

Giratina - I don't use UBERS.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you are replacing Lucario with Heracross than i'd use a Choice set. I like...

Heracross w/Adherence Scarf
'Guts' : Boosts Att x1.5 when inflicted with status effect.
<Adament : +Att / -Sat>
* Close Combat
* Megahorn
* Stone Edge
* Pursuit / * Blade Test

<You could go ChoiceBand too just use <Jolly> nature. I love *Pursuit Competitively but *Blade Test is better InGame since the bad A.I. never switches.>

[DDBoahTar]

Silly rabbit, in game team rates are for nobody. Seriously, everything works ingame.

[White Lotus]

DDBoahTar wrote:

Silly rabbit, in game team rates are for nobody. Seriously, everything works ingame.

Silly Rabbit - Stupid posts are for Douchebags who have nothing better to do than SPAM.

J/K - DDBoahTar but don't make pointless posts like this anymore. It's a waste of space.

I mean Very Observant.

The InGame A.I. is terrible.

You are the 1st person ever to point this out.

Feel cool yet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

With WiFi coming soon people are going to need to take InGame rates more seriously. I'm not going to be playing on Netbattle / Competitor as much as i would with this possible. I have always built my InGame pokes competitively and will continue too.

I just don't understand the logic of doing something wrong just because he A.I. isn't smart enough to punish you for it.

If you were any good at all - you would know the pokes aren't as good as they could be - so shouldn't that be enough?

[Mizuken]

For Competitive reasons how about

Porygon Z
download
<Modest>
-agility/substitute
-shadow ball
-psychic
-hyper beam

[Iceman3k]

Here's a better idea for PorygonZ

PorygonZ @ Leftovers
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 Sp. Atk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Yeah I kind of like that setup a lot better

[White Lotus]

For Competitive i like...

Porygon Z w/Choice Specs
'Download' : Raises Att/Sat x1.5 depending on Opponent's Def/Sdf.
<Modest : +Sat / -Att>
* Thunderbolt
* Ice Beam
* Shadow Ball
* HyperBeam

<This guy can melt Blissey with *HyperBeam. He might need 'Adaptive' to 1HKO but this guy is straight up NUCLEAR. If you wanted a second STAB you can replace *Thunderbolt/*Ice Beam with *Tri-Attack but I'd leave *ShadowBall on there because you will be seeing your fair share of (Ghost) types to foil *HyperBeam.>

[Purfugly]

For Competitive i like...

Porygon Z w/Choice Specs
'Download' : Raises Att/Sat x1.5 depending on Opponent's Def/Sdf.
<Modest : +Sat / -Att>
* Psychic
* Ice Beam
* Shadow Ball
* HyperBeam

<This guy can melt Blissey with *HyperBeam. He might need 'Adaptive' to 1HKO but this guy is straight up NUCLEAR. If you wanted a second STAB you can replace *Thunderbolt/*Ice Beam with *Tri-Attack but I'd leave *ShadowBall on there because you will be seeing your fair share of (Ghost) types to foil *HyperBeam.>
I agree with HyperBeam, but geez, do you really need Ice Beam and Thunderbolt? They'll both deal with flying, and competitively, you shouldn't be using Z against a water type anyway. Use Psychic to deal with your nasty Fighting type enemies and those Poison types using Toxic.

[Iceman3k]

I agree with HyperBeam, but geez, do you really need Ice Beam and Thunderbolt? They'll both deal with flying, and competitively, you shouldn't be using Z against a water type anyway. Use Psychic to deal with your nasty Fighting type enemies and those Poison types using Toxic.
Thunderbolt is apparently the only good filler that P-Z can get. Toxic is useless on it. Thunderbolt is there to kill off Water Types, and Ice Beam for killing Dragon Types.

And a Tri Attack, coming from STAB and Adaptability does just as much damage than a SE Psychic attack. =/

[White Lotus]

So Porygon Z should flee from (Water) types but stay in against (Fight) types?

It goes Puff~Puff~Pass Man. You've been Bogarding that blunt for way too long. Let us get some of that.

These are the 6 attacks Porygon Z should be using...

*Tri-Attack / *HyperBeam / *Shadow Ball / *Thunderbolt / *Ice Beam / *Nasty Plot

*Nasty Plot is out because you are using Choice Specs so you need to choose between those 5 attacks. *Psychic is not an option because Porygon Z has way too many good attacks to be carrying that.

If you are going to lose *Thunderbolt / *Ice Beam than replace it with *Tri-Attack and change the ability to 'Adaptive'. With just *Hyper Beam i'd stick with 'Download'.

For future general reference save *Psychic for those that get STAB off of it.

[Iceman3k]

Hyper Beam means that Rhyperior can come in for a clean-shotted Focus Punch. ._.

[Mizuken]

Then its settled

Porygon Z
Adaptibility
<modest>
-hyper beam*
-tri-attack*
-shadow ball
-thunderbolt

*-these moves have stab plus adaptability.

[Iceman3k]

As long as you don't use Hyper Beam so anything can come in and Focus Punch / Close Combat the thing to hell, you're fine.

[Purfugly]

Then its settled

Porygon Z
Adaptibility
<modest>
-hyper beam*
-tri-attack*
-shadow ball
-ice beam

*-these moves have stab plus adaptability.

No! Ice is strong against Grass, Ground, Flying, AND Dragon. Electric is only strong against Water and Flying. Ice wins.

[Iceman3k]

No! Ice is strong against Grass, Ground, Flying, AND Dragon. Electric is only strong against Water and Flying. Ice wins.
And Gyarados is strong against PorygonZ. Gyarados Wins.

[Purfugly]

And Gyarados is strong against PorygonZ. Gyarados Wins.

That's what the NE moves are for...

[White Lotus]

Iceman3k wrote:

And Gyarados is strong against PorygonZ. Gyarados Wins.

There will always be a poke to beat a build unless your name is Heracross. If you have a counter to Gyarados on your team then use (Ice). If you are sweating the multitude of things who die to (Ice) use that.

On this team you have Empoleon + Abomasnow so i'd pack myself a *Thunderbolt on Porygon Z.

[Purfugly]

So basically, P-Z has now the moveset:
Ice Beam
Tri Attack
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball

[Iceman3k]

So basically, P-Z has now the moveset:
Ice Beam
Tri Attack
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
With Choice Specs, Timid Nature, 4HP/252SPD/252SATK spread.

[White Lotus]

For this team i'd use...

Porygon Z w/Choice Specs
'Adaptive' : Additional STAB on moves of his (Type).
<Modest : +Sat / -Att> ~or~ <Timid : +Spd / -Att>
(EV's : HP 4 / Sat 252 / Spd 252)
* Tri~Attack
* Shadow Ball
* Thunderbolt
* HyperBeam

<*Hyper Beam should be saved for special occasions like nuking Blissey or on the turn you will die. (Psuedo~Explosion) I went with *Thunderbolt because you have 2 pokes with (Ice) attacks. *Tri~Attack will be the staple though. *Shadow Ball is for those annoying (Ghost) switch ins.>

[Samson]

On this team you have Empoleon + Abomasnow so i'd pack myself a *Thunderbolt on Porygon Z.

i completely agree. hyperbeam on pZ sounds promising, but thunderbolt is the way to go, especially considering his weak to steel types.

[Purfugly]

But Blissey's Sp Def is so high. Why not just bolt and i beam it down?

[White Lotus]

Because it will do no damage and she will use *Softboiled and laugh in your face. You'll only be able to eat 4 *Seismic Tosses and she will win that battle everytime. She's prolly gonna win any battle against a Special Sweeper any way - She's damn near UBER.

If she's the *Calm Mind version she'll just Stat Up and become a real pain in the Arse.

If you are going at Blissey why would you use the moves that don't get STAB? Even without *HyperBeam you'd have *Tri~Attack so why wouldn't you attack her with that?

I'm not sure how the #'s crunch exactly but with...

*Hyper Beam + <Modest> + (Max Sat EV's) + 'Adaptability' ~ you will at the very least cripple Blissey. She will use *Softboiled on the turn you are recovering from *HyperBeam but she will not be back to full health and the next turn you can *HyperBeam again and finish her off. If she survives the first blast she will have to flee unless you are under 100 HP so she can KO you with a *Seismic Toss.

Why do you feel the need to keep *Ice Beam when you have a poke on your team doing STAB *Blizzards at 100%?

[Purfugly]

Because it will do no damage and she will use *Softboiled and laugh in your face. You'll only be able to eat 4 *Seismic Tosses and she will win that battle everytime. She's prolly gonna win any battle against a Special Sweeper any way - She's damn near UBER.

If she's the *Calm Mind version she'll just Stat Up and become a real pain in the Arse.

If you are going at Blissey why would you use the moves that don't get STAB? Even without *HyperBeam you'd have *Tri~Attack so why wouldn't you attack her with that?

I'm not sure how the #'s crunch exactly but with...

*Hyper Beam + <Modest> + (Max Sat EV's) + 'Adaptability' ~ you will at the very least cripple Blissey. She will use *Softboiled on the turn you are recovering from *HyperBeam but she will not be back to full health and the next turn you can *HyperBeam again and finish her off. If she survives the first blast she will have to flee unless you are under 100 HP so she can KO you with a *Seismic Toss.

Why do you feel the need to keep *Ice Beam when you have a poke on your team doing STAB *Blizzards at 100%?

Because Blizzard only has five PP. Nuff said?

[White Lotus]

Because Blizzard only has five PP. Nuff said?

You need to check yourself.

That tone is not needed nor is it appreciated.

I see you are concerned about the 5 PP of *Blizzard but how about the 10 PP of *Ice Beam on Empoleon?

If you don't want to come off as a Clown then simply don't do or say Clownish things.

The advice for you stopped with that last little quote. I was trying to help you out fool but be my guest and do whatever you want. In fact i think you should go back to your original post and run that Porygon Z.

*Psychic will do you a lot of good. Nuff Said.

[Purfugly]

Ha. Another one of aragornbird's little minions who thinks too much of themselves...

[Samson]

if this is an in-game team, he can adjust the PP of Blizzard with PP Up/Max PP... making it 8. and besides, having to use more than one ice beam can be more dangerous than suggested. if the foe has a restorative move, then it would probably take 2-3 ice beams. besides, if you are a smart enough battler, then something as trivial as 5 PP for a move wouldn't alter battle at all. if you set Abomasnow with a moveset that covers few types, then that's something you should be worried about, not how much PP each move has.

[Iceman3k]

Ha. Another one of aragornbird's little minions who thinks too much of themselves...
lol I didn't know aragornbird had minions :o
Comments like that start flamewars. I suggest you stop.

[White Lotus]

Ha. Another one of aragornbird's little minions who thinks too much of themselves...

I'm not one of his minions. LOL

I'm just smart enough to know that I should listen to the advice of people who know more than me. I practically worship at the shrine of Jumpman16 but that's because i sweat his Set / Team building prowess.

I was never anything but pleasant to you until you showed yourself as a snarky noob. I explained why you should choose what moves and you still didn't listen.

I can't force you to be smarter.

So from here on out i will just obstain from giving you any advice. It's that simple.

I enjoy having discussions with Samson + Iceman3k since they actually bring some skill to the table.

But do yourself a favor and if your are going to ignore my advice - don't be so dumb to ignore the advice of AragornBird / Alter Ego / Rubberbandman because they come off as knowing more than you.

There's a reason why it seems like they know more than you.

Because they do.

[Purfugly]

Who the hell is Alter Ego?

[Mizuken]

I have a problem. I live in a ghost town basically so I can't trade anybody gor the ice beam tm. Should I keep ice beam for Empoleon or Claydol

[Iceman3k]

I have a problem. I live in a ghost town basically so I can't trade anybody gor the ice beam tm. Should I keep ice beam for Empoleon or Claydol

Well, here's a few things I can say concerning that...

- Pass Ice Beam onto Piplup (Empoleon's pre-evo) as an egg move. All TMs can be passed onto baby Pokemon.

- If you have the carts of the advance games (RSE, FRLG), then attach the TM13 to any Pokemon you send to Pal Park, then catch it, and they'll still have it.

[Samson]

Action Replay is an option. but aside from that, multiple Ice Beam TMs can be obtained in the GBA games (not sure about R/S/E though). in D/P, you will be able to trade some kind of item for TMs in-game. also, you'll be able to trade people over WiFi =)

[Mizuken]

Now that this is all cleared, here's the final movasets.

Empoleon@shellbell
Bold
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Agility
-Flash canon/ Grass knot

Honchkrow@Scope lense
Jolly
-Night Slash
-Aeriel Ace
-Thunder Wave
-Haze

Abomasnow@ Choice Scarf
Brave
-Blizzard
-Energy Ball
-Focus Blast
-Earthquake

Claydol@ leftovers
Sassy
-Reflect
-Toxic/Rapid Spin/Psychic
-Earthpower/Earthquake
-Ice Beam

Lucario@ Choice Band
Adamant
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed
-Stone Edge
-Shadow Claw

Porygon Z@ Choice Specs
Timid
-Hyper Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Shadowball
-Tri-Attack

[Mizuken]

Another question. Should I replace Claydol with...

Dusknoir@Leftovers
Adamant
-Curse
-Rest
-Shadow punch
-Brick Break

P.S. sorry for double posting

[White Lotus]

You do understand that *Curse on Dusknoir will take 1/2 your HP and then remove 1/4 the opponent's HP each turn until they switch right?

If your are going to use a set like that than replace the attacks with *Mean Look + *Protect.

If you want an attacking Dusknoir use this...

Dusknoir w/Leftovers
'Pressure' : Opponent uses 2 PP instead of 1 PP.
<Careful : +Sdf / -Sat>
* Brick Break / * Focus Punch
* Shadow Strike
* Will-O-Wisp / * Thunder Punch / * Fire Punch
* Pain split

The first row is the poke you should use InGame. The extra options i gave are for Competitive Environment.

*Focus Punch is because Dusknoir forces a lot of switches giving him a chance to get them off. *Will-O-Wisp was the standard for along time but with Heracross threatening to unravel the Metagame peeps are a little gun shy about risking Burning Heracross and having him Destroy your team. He will always switch into Dusknoir hoping to get Burned so what a surprise he'd get when he ate a *Fire Punch instead. *Thunder Punch is for Gyarados who is also a big threat in the 4th Gen Metagame.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please use *Grass Knot > *Flash Cannon on Empoleon. He's best at being Anti~Bulky Water because he resists their attacks.

*Flash Cannon is garbage on any poke not named Heatran / Magnezone.

[Mizuken]

Sorry I forgot switch-ins nullify curse. But before I make a final decision do you think Dusknoir will be a more effective Sub-puncher.

[White Lotus]

No~No~No

Dusknoir should not be SubPunching at all. He has way too many better things he can be using.

If you aren't confident in your prediction skills than just use *Brick Break.

The choice you have is *Will-O-Wisp or *Fire Punch / *Thunder Punch.

*Will-O-Wisp is prolly better InGame but we wary of Heracross.

[Samson]

i'd say thunder punch myself.

[Mizuken]

Okay then

Dusknoir@leftovers
Careful
-Focus punch
-Shadow punch
-Thunder punch/Fire punch
-Pain Split

[Mizuken]

Now that's all summed up do you think the team over-all will act well in competitive play.

[aragornbird]

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Based on Pokemon choices alone, I'd say No.

Basically everything on your team dies to Heracross. Even if you use Dusknoir, you still can't do anything to it.

You also have trouble with Electivire, and Gyarados sets up easily against your Empoleon and Abomasnow. And furthermore, nothing on your team can switch in safely against Rhyperior or Tyranitar.

Definitely have a Thunderpunch Dusknoir on your team. It will be your main defense against Gyarados. Replace Honchkrow with Gliscor. Honchkrow isn't doing anything for your team, while Gliscor gives you an excellent Heracross counter, and can handle Ttar/Rhy as well.

Gliscor @Leftovers
Impish Nature
Trait: Sand Veil
-Earthquake
-Aerial Ace
-Ice Fang
-Roost

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

[Mizuken]

Aye aye, but do you know how much the choice scarf enhances speed for Abomasnow.

[DDBoahTar]

*1.5

filler filler filler