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Dark Magician
May 27th, 2007, 12:12 PM
Hello, I haven't been here in a so I decided to start out again with something controversial (at least in my point of view.) Well, the question is....

How did we came into being?
God?? Big Bang?? Are we clones created by Mewtwo??? You decide.

Note: Please respect other people's ideas, we may not all believe the same. I would like this thread to remain open as soon as possible so we can all be exposed to different points of view and probably even different cultures. Please do not disrespect others and their believes.

Bomberman
May 27th, 2007, 07:29 PM
I have a feeling this thread will get out of hand & locked.
But I'll add my two cents real quick: creation.

The O Rly Owl
May 27th, 2007, 10:47 PM
Hmm...how humans came to be...I honestly don't consider it an act of God, per se, but rather an act of some form of a higher being.
I honestly don't believe there is a God. Just some higher being. And I don't feel that I need a book to tell me to worship said being, either. It's just a being...I don't believe it has a gender, or anything of the sort.
However, I'm slightly contradictory because I kind of believe that there is a heaven however, I don't believe in a hell. I also believe in purgatory, but I won't go into my reasoning on that (you'd all call me crazy, haha).
The heaven thing...it's not for sure a heaven by the standard definition (golden streets, angels, etc.) but rather a place we go when we die.
The reason I don't believe in hell is because the idea of there being a devil is pretty rediculous. I mean, seriously...think about that for a moment. Satan? Lucifer, possibly, but still, I don't think that there would be a hell. This is deducted from how I believe that sending someone there would be more like a reward to Lucifer, ne? As in...he gets to torture people. He likes to torture them, right? Well, if God wanted to punish him (as he did in The Bible), he wouldn't send him to a place where he could gain enjoyment.

And that's pretty much all of what I think. :/

Dark Magician
May 27th, 2007, 11:07 PM
Please lets not get too much into religion and more on the causes of why you believe that we came into being.

The O Rly Owl
May 27th, 2007, 11:19 PM
I think with the topic at hand, it is pretty much inevitable that this would lead to religion somehow. Given the circumstances that some people would say "it was God," and other's would say "no, it was something else."

Dark Magician
May 27th, 2007, 11:43 PM
Yes But I was thinking of a conversation more like this:

EXAMPLE:

I belive we were created by Flying Dogs from another planet because we all know that flying dogs rule.

Or

I believe that we were creatd by God because sientifically blah blah blah



You see, we do not need to talk about heaven or hell or anything like that. Simply state what you believe and why.

The O Rly Owl
May 27th, 2007, 11:52 PM
Haha, I suppose you're right.
Sorry, sir. I just sort of went off on a rant. It's pretty common. XD

Hakeen
May 28th, 2007, 12:06 AM
I think we came into being by two massive clouds coming together one valentines day, and creating God. Then, he decided they weren't good enough parents, so he made them angry. When he makes them angry they turn grey and tears come out of them, otherwise known as rain. After that, he thought, my parents don't have anything to cry on, so he created earth. Then finally, earth needed junk food. That of course was the humans, which are us. We were created to be the junk food for the earth. And the process of creating us was simple, experimented with one, and then cloned to become the rest of the humans. That's why we're all alike. It's as simple as that. XDD Though, that is the totally fake version of what I believe. XD

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~
May 28th, 2007, 06:47 AM
I think with the topic at hand, it is pretty much inevitable that this would lead to religion somehow



Yea this is going to have something to do with religion but anyways, I have no idea


:t354:tatsujin gosuto

Fox♠
May 28th, 2007, 09:59 AM
Evolution, that's almost evident. But we needed something to evolve from, something that had to be created. I believe it was by the "Big Bang" which then raises the question, what/who made the big bang? That's where I believe a higher being could be responsible.

Erimgard
May 29th, 2007, 10:23 AM
Hmm...how humans came to be...I honestly don't consider it an act of God, per se, but rather an act of some form of a higher being.
I honestly don't believe there is a God. Just some higher being. And I don't feel that I need a book to tell me to worship said being, either. It's just a being...I don't believe it has a gender, or anything of the sort.
However, I'm slightly contradictory because I kind of believe that there is a heaven however, I don't believe in a hell. I also believe in purgatory, but I won't go into my reasoning on that (you'd all call me crazy, haha).
The heaven thing...it's not for sure a heaven by the standard definition (golden streets, angels, etc.) but rather a place we go when we die.
The reason I don't believe in hell is because the idea of there being a devil is pretty rediculous. I mean, seriously...think about that for a moment. Satan? Lucifer, possibly, but still, I don't think that there would be a hell. This is deducted from how I believe that sending someone there would be more like a reward to Lucifer, ne? As in...he gets to torture people. He likes to torture them, right? Well, if God wanted to punish him (as he did in The Bible), he wouldn't send him to a place where he could gain enjoyment.

And that's pretty much all of what I think. :/

you're a touch off-base on what the Biblical concept of hell is, but this is not the place to discuss that. I'd be happy to discuss it with you via pm or a new thread

as for my views, I believe in Biblical Creation. whether in a literal 6 day time period, or a figure of speach, it doesn't make much difference as i see it.
I do not believe in a mix of creationism/evolution as some do (aka God created one-celled organisms that then evolved)

but me, personally, I was cloned by mewtwo. definitely

Utapau
May 30th, 2007, 05:00 AM
It is beyond our comprehension. I would not even dare attempt an explanation.

Cassino
May 30th, 2007, 05:03 AM
We're just here, and that's all I need to know. Though as a Shintoist I go with the Shinto creation story, somewhat.

Ullion
June 4th, 2007, 01:23 PM
Okay, well if you're wondering about humans, it IS from evolution. Believe it or not, like it or not; thats what happened and has already been proved scientifically. If you don't believe in this stuff known as science, then you're a little out of date, as science is being proven more right then religion is now-a-days. Also, the big-bang theory has alreayd been proven correct. But there is a slight fault in it when it comes down to pure science; there is the chance that the big bang we know of isn't necessarily the first that has happened, but it could have been fuled by a past one and it has continued to be like that over and over. But with the laws of physics, energy can not be created nor destroyed, so where has the energy originally come from? That NO ONE knows, in which how the universe came into existence.

However, for all we know *steals the idea from Dark Magician*, that flying dogs crated this universe and made it all seem it was part of science and planted fake evidence or made these things happen to make us believe what I have just explained. You never know. o.O;

Utapau
June 4th, 2007, 04:25 PM
Okay, well if you're wondering about humans, it IS from evolution. Believe it or not, like it or not; thats what happened and has already been proved scientifically. If you don't believe in this stuff known as science, then you're a little out of date, as science is being proven more right then religion is now-a-days. Also, the big-bang theory has alreayd been proven correct. But there is a slight fault in it when it comes down to pure science; there is the chance that the big bang we know of isn't necessarily the first that has happened, but it could have been fuled by a past one and it has continued to be like that over and over. But with the laws of physics, energy can not be created nor destroyed, so where has the energy originally come from? That NO ONE knows, in which how the universe came into existence.



Logically, evolution must happen. We see it happen every day - the deer that is fast enough to escape the wolf survives. But, are you sure about the big bang being proven? No theory that attempts to explain how the universe was created can be proven. It can be a logical theory (even though the big bang isn't, as you studiously mentioned), but there is no way to know how it went down.

Ullion
June 4th, 2007, 04:37 PM
Actually it has been explained. My teacher told us about how the planets, debris in space and everything else that exists is moving away from eachother. For ex:

<----Earth_______________________Some other planet on the other side of the Universe ----->


The arrows show the direction they are both moving; away from each other. Which means that there was a force that has pushed them away; they gained the momentum/energy to go that way FROM the Big Bang. This means the effect of it happening so many billions/trillions of years ago are still affecting us. There was something else my teacher said, that eventually when everything hits the edge of the universe (or something to that effect @___@) they will all start to head back to the centre again and everything will come together and again create another massive implosion; being another Big Bang; resseting everything that happened. Yes, that means in the long future when everything is repeated, there will be another PC (That is if any of us surive the Big Bang ;D).
Yah. <.<;

Happy Dude
June 4th, 2007, 11:01 PM
Actually it has been explained. My teacher told us about how the planets, debris in space and everything else that exists is moving away from eachother. For ex:

<----Earth_______________________Some other planet on the other side of the Universe ----->


The arrows show the direction they are both moving; away from each other. Which means that there was a force that has pushed them away; they gained the momentum/energy to go that way FROM the Big Bang. This means the effect of it happening so many billions/trillions of years ago are still affecting us. There was something else my teacher said, that eventually when everything hits the edge of the universe (or something to that effect @___@) they will all start to head back to the centre again and everything will come together and again create another massive implosion; being another Big Bang; resseting everything that happened. Yes, that means in the long future when everything is repeated, there will be another PC (That is if any of us surive the Big Bang ;D).
Yah. <.<;This Is just a theory no one will never know How Earth really came to be

I For one don't really care XD

Careful With That Axe, Pichu!
June 5th, 2007, 10:43 AM
Though the big-bang appeals to me the most, I don't believe in any scientific theory yet... And I'm skeptical enough to discard Biblical creation by default. In fact, the Bible makes me laugh.

Mock me and call me mediocre, but I just don't find it productive wasting my time thinking in stuff like this. Of course I am curious... Just not curious enough.

Life suddenly seems a lot shorter when it comes to these kind of inquiries...

Erimgard
June 5th, 2007, 10:52 AM
While certain forms of 'evolution' do in fact take place, I do not belive in the changing of one species to another. it is obvious that things adapt, but the theory used to explain how a single cell organism became a human over millions of years has not been proven by any means.
nor has big bang. if intelligent design or creationism was the cause of the universe, then why would a 'big bang' be necessary? surely a Being with enough power to create all that we know can make things move in a certain direction at will

Utapau
June 5th, 2007, 05:42 PM
Actually it has been explained. My teacher told us about how the planets, debris in space and everything else that exists is moving away from eachother. For ex:

<----Earth_______________________Some other planet on the other side of the Universe ----->


The arrows show the direction they are both moving; away from each other. Which means that there was a force that has pushed them away; they gained the momentum/energy to go that way FROM the Big Bang. This means the effect of it happening so many billions/trillions of years ago are still affecting us. There was something else my teacher said, that eventually when everything hits the edge of the universe (or something to that effect @___@) they will all start to head back to the centre again and everything will come together and again create another massive implosion; being another Big Bang; resseting everything that happened. Yes, that means in the long future when everything is repeated, there will be another PC (That is if any of us surive the Big Bang ;D).
Yah. <.<;

The hypothezation that the universe is expanding is just that: a hypothezation. Although I personally believe the Universe is forever expanding, I cannot declare it to be truth. The thing about it hitting the edge of the universe is interesting, because then he must believe in the parallel universe thing, which means he must essentially not believe in determinalism -- and determinalism (in other words: fate) is something that many people say, is supported by the big bang - in other words, everything since the big bang has been inevitable. If a being who knew all the "laws" of the universe and every past and present event, they would be able to predict the future.

However, opponents of determinalism believe the Universe is probabilistic - like quantum mechanics - a theory that explains the idea of a "mind" - obviously thoughts are chemical reactions, but what causes the things that cause
that chemical reaction at that time? Only chance could explain this idea of a "mind".

To tie it into the parallel universes - this theory says that, every probability of every event is happening, but each one in another universe that are physically closed off to eachother. That your teacher thought the universe would hit and edge, leads me to believe he buys into the "parallel universes"

What do I believe? I am on the probablistic, quantum mechanic side of things - but I do not believe in the oppiste parallel universes. I do believe the universe is expanding, but because of this probability, which I feel explains the totally random chemical reactions that take place in the mind ( which I really do not know enough about, to be honest), I do not feel that each event to happen is inevitable.

One of my favorite movies, Star Wars, I feel supports my view. Chancellor Palpatine, a master of the force, with immense knowledge, foresees Luke going to the dark side. Does this happen? No, Luke's mental conviction that he is to stay a Jedi overrides the other chemical reaction that was also likely to happen in his mind - that he would go over to the dark side.

MegaDitto
June 6th, 2007, 06:52 PM
We are made from dirt and water.

Idiot!
June 6th, 2007, 10:56 PM
Mutation + Evolution. The egg came first because the chicken is the mutated form of another bird. But that's my guess.

All living things consists of cells. The first life forms are tiny, microscopic unicellular orgainsms. Then they evolve and became more and more complex. When they are complex enough, they can be the first organisms that are visible to the naked eye. These orgainsms keep evolving and mutating through generations, and eventually form two different groups: plants and animals (or three if you think so: plants, fungi and animals).

The plants keep on evolving, eventually, forming another two groups: the flowering and non-flowering kind. The flowering plants can be divided further into wind pollinated, animal pollinated and water pollinated, but enough about the plants. What we really want to know are humans, right?

The animals, you guessed it, keep evolving and mutating. Sooner or later, jellyfish and other shellfish apeared, along with insects above ground. The sea animals may became fish, and sharks have existed on this planet ever since. Some fish bravely ventured to land and survived by evolving into animals that used lungs. Later, some of them returned to the water and may become amphibians, while the ones who remain on land became reptiles.

The reptiles evolved through generations, to form birds. Sooner or later mammals appeared, but no humans yet, which is a lucky thing (or not so lucky that we can't see living dinosaurs). Then came the 65-million-years-ago meteor that destroyed many of the organisms. Finally, here's where we come in. The survivors, over the millions of years, then finally evolved into the earliest humans.

Ullion
June 7th, 2007, 03:50 AM
^Exactly. I didn't really talk about evolution.. I was more-less talking about the creation of the planet itself, sorry. xD But I agree with you almost perfectly on that case Star Latias. But there is one fault in what you said, the first land organisms came from the water; insects were evolved from them.

Chikara
June 7th, 2007, 04:51 AM
Don't chew me out on this, I don't know what to believe on the whole God subject. I want to go to church, but my parents don't want to, so I can't go until I'm 16 and can drag my own butt up there.

But anyway, back to what I'm supposed to be babbling on about. I definetly believe in evolution. There's facts to prove where we evolved from because of skeletons. I don't know where we money-things came from before that, who knows, maybe it was the work of God, but I do believe that we had to evolve from those skeletons people keep seeing and finding.

Sorry if this seems short, I'm not in a very typish mood right now ._.

Utapau
June 7th, 2007, 11:39 AM
Mutation + Evolution. The egg came first because the chicken is the mutated form of another bird. But that's my guess.

All living things consists of cells. The first life forms are tiny, microscopic unicellular orgainsms. Then they evolve and became more and more complex. When they are complex enough, they can be the first organisms that are visible to the naked eye. These orgainsms keep evolving and mutating through generations, and eventually form two different groups: plants and animals (or three if you think so: plants, fungi and animals).

The plants keep on evolving, eventually, forming another two groups: the flowering and non-flowering kind. The flowering plants can be divided further into wind pollinated, animal pollinated and water pollinated, but enough about the plants. What we really want to know are humans, right?

The animals, you guessed it, keep evolving and mutating. Sooner or later, jellyfish and other shellfish apeared, along with insects above ground. The sea animals may became fish, and sharks have existed on this planet ever since. Some fish bravely ventured to land and survived by evolving into animals that used lungs. Later, some of them returned to the water and may become amphibians, while the ones who remain on land became reptiles.

The reptiles evolved through generations, to form birds. Sooner or later mammals appeared, but no humans yet, which is a lucky thing (or not so lucky that we can't see living dinosaurs). Then came the 65-million-years-ago meteor that destroyed many of the organisms. Finally, here's where we come in. The survivors, over the millions of years, then finally evolved into the earliest humans.


Because you saw all this happen, and you are entirely sure that aliens did not land and bring jellyfish - instead of them evolving from plants.

Timbjerr
June 9th, 2007, 08:17 AM
As much as I am a devout Catholic. I'm more in favor of the evolution theory. Sure, zealous Christians can shout, "7 day creationism!" all they want, but truth is, the first book of the Bible that is historically credible is Exodus. Genesis is merely a collection of early Hebrew mythology and consists of few historically credible facts (the lineage of Abraham has been historically proven).

Evolutionism, while not a perfect theory, is the most scientifically sound one. Still, something had to trigger teh BIG BANG, and that's where the Christian God comes in. God created the universe by inducing the Big Bang. why so many Christian scholars don't see this is beyond me, but this is what I belive to be true.

Erimgard
June 9th, 2007, 08:29 AM
I'm not completely ruling out the possibility of God creating evolution (though I pretty much rule out big bang.)
I do not understand the ways of God, therefore, just the fact that God creating evolution makes no sense to me, is worthless. His plans are greater than ours.
So, as previously stated, I believe in Creationism, but I'm not saying evolution by God's hand is impossible...just...improbable

parallelzero
June 9th, 2007, 08:37 AM
I'm personally all with the "who cares, we're here now and that's all that matters" theory. But, I guess evolution makes the most sense because its the only one that actually DOES make sense, with some degree of proof backing it. I don't have any belief in beings like God creating anything, because well, theres no real proof that ever occurring, and I don't exactly consider ancient books as an accurate source.

Dark Magician
June 12th, 2007, 11:47 PM
Well heres what I believe, nothing fancy, just plain and simple.

I belive we were created by GOD. Simply because matter cannot be created or destroyed, the whole universe is made of matter of is matter cannot be created neither cant the universe. Evolution is a good reason but still it only happens in need for addaptation. If evolution was the answer the we would had evolved in a way to adapt ouselves to the changes in the wather, tempreature, and other factors that are now present that SHOULD cause evolution. So I stik with GOD for this one.

Melody
June 13th, 2007, 12:45 AM
As much as I am a devout Catholic. I'm more in favor of the evolution theory. Sure, zealous Christians can shout, "7 day creationism!" all they want, but truth is, the first book of the Bible that is historically credible is Exodus. Genesis is merely a collection of early Hebrew mythology and consists of few historically credible facts (the lineage of Abraham has been historically proving).

Evolution-ism, while not a perfect theory, is the most scientifically sound one. Still, something had to trigger teh BIG BANG, and that's where the Christian God comes in. God created the universe by inducing the Big Bang. why so many Christian scholars don't see this is beyond me, but this is what I believe to be true.
I agree...It's perfectly possible for God to have triggered the big bang...
And what is 7 days to god could be millions,even billions of years to us...Remember that god existed way before we did...He is an immortal being. that's why i also believe in the parallel universe theory and the theory behind the chronicles of narnia...
the God we know could be the god that is worshiped by all monotheistic religions...
everyone interprets messages from god differently...We as humans,have been bestowed with a free will after all...It says that in the bible...
And even though i'm a devout christian I see the bible as a collection of selected stories that each carry their own meaning for each person...things in the bible dont apply to every person nor every situation....In the end we must do what we feel is right....That's why god gave us free will isnt it?

Drifblim
June 13th, 2007, 06:26 AM
I'm leaning more toward evolution. For one thing, the aging of the human is itself evolution; a seed evolves into a tree; a tadpole evolves into a frog. Yet that's only as far as **** sapiens goes.

As far as the universe, I have heard several arguments against the Big Bang, some coming from Stephen Hawking. Here I would just like to believe that something started everything else, so I'm not ruling out the work of a god or other deity.

Erimgard
June 13th, 2007, 10:35 AM
I agree...It's perfectly possible for God to have triggered the big bang...
And what is 7 days to god could be millions,even billions of years to us...Remember that god existed way before we did...He is an immortal being. that's why i also believe in the parallel universe theory and the theory behind the chronicles of narnia...
the God we know could be the god that is worshiped by all monotheistic religions...
everyone interprets messages from god differently...We as humans,have been bestowed with a free will after all...It says that in the bible...
And even though i'm a devout christian I see the bible as a collection of selected stories that each carry their own meaning for each person...things in the bible dont apply to every person nor every situation....In the end we must do what we feel is right....That's why god gave us free will isnt it?
Well the three major monotheistic religions (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity) all do claim the same god in a way...But Judaism just doesn't believe that Jesus was fullfillment of prophecy and Islam believes that he later revealed himself to Muhammed under the name of Allah and with more/new commands than previously stated.
if I'm way off my mark, please let me know, as I have not study Islam extensively

Kitori_theTeamAquaSuicune
June 13th, 2007, 10:45 AM
I believe it was the six day creation.
Scientific reasons can just kiss my ass.

Erimgard
June 13th, 2007, 10:46 AM
would you be completely closed off to the possibility of it being a figuritive or metaphoric six days? and if so, why?

Ullion
June 13th, 2007, 06:41 PM
I believe it was the six day creation.
Scientific reasons can just kiss my ass.

Please explain why. If you're going to post in a thread that can be so in depth, you really should try giving some explanation behind your opinions, if not, they just become flat. Now no one here even knows why... and now I'm interested in why you shun science, where it has nearly become every single part of our lives, and yet you reject the very idea of it? Are you saying you'd rather live in the past where science barely exists? If so, thats impossible, as science is around us, at all times. Like it or not.

Dark Magician
June 14th, 2007, 12:59 AM
Well, I believe science has a good idea of our creation but it very strange to think that a star would explode and create life. Stars explode all the time and life has not been found in any other planet than this. People believe that is because of the temperature that there is no life in other planets. Well under the sea theres different kinds of fish that live in waters of over a hundred degrees do to volcanic activity. Also there are fish in Antartica where the waters are well bellow freezing point. Why would this be the only planent out out the other nine (with the recently found) that has all of the necesary things for life? Its stupid just to believe that. There must had been something else that made life come into this planet. Why is it that over the millions of species where are the only specie that has a full system of reasoning and the ability to clearly express ideas. Why are we the only sprecie that has the ability to do anything that we do? cars, buildings, roads, writen forms of language and other things. There is no way that a single specie can be so advance over all the others unless we were specifially design to be this way, and according to the bible we were. So yes, I still think that God is how we came into being.

Arcanine
June 14th, 2007, 11:37 AM
I hate these topics. They get no where, I think their pointless, and I think PC would be better off without them, I know no one will come out of this thread with different views then what they came in with. All I see it doing is hurt PC and/or the members.
But after seeing a few "stupid" replies I thought I'd toss in my views.
Yes, I did just say this thread is pointless. Yes I am replying. Yes I am bored and have nothing better to do (and some of it may be said more then once, but I first typed it up at 4 am last night and I'm adding more. So if I do say some things twice it's due to me not remembering everything I said last night. And it's a long rant, so if you want straight to the point, read the last part all the way at the bottom).


I love Killer-Swift's first post in this thread. I truly truly do. He knows he's right and anyone that disagrees with him is stupid. This is the point if view that can hurt or help you. And that is the point of view I go by on PC and other things. I am always right and I don't care what anyone else says. And with that, both me and with that both me and Killer-Swift have something in common.
But it ends right there, because both of us can't be right.


Lets get started shall we.


~ The Big Bang ~
Here's a question for all of you that puts your "faith" in evolution. Where you there? Where you there when the bang happened? Where you there when the earth was formed? Pictures, Videos, Books, People, anything? Come on guys, you got to have some proof that you know that's how it happened.
I'm guessing none of you have proof that it happened (other then scientists telling you so). So I ask you this. Where did the first clump of matter come from? Was it just there for billions and billions of years and then one day just blew up? The matter had to come from somewhere, but where?
If you guys can't prove where the matter came from what is evolution based off of?

What I believe is a God (the Christian God, I just want to get that out up front) made the world, the universe, the plants, animals, the people and everything out there. Set it up just the right way from the start (I don't believe in all this "Well a God started evolution and people came that way". No, I believe in the 6 day creation. And 6 days I mean 6 days like we have now, not "Well 6 days could have meant 6 billion years", that doesn't fly with me). The world the right distance from the sun, tilted slightly, and all that stuff.


~ The Origin of Life ~
First off, I'm going to tell a little analogy. The whole world is covered with quarters (google it for you ones out of the US), every single inch (water and everything, these quarters float, there). You paint one of them quarters red (where all the rest are normal). You set a blind man down somewhere on the earth. And you tell him to pick out the red quarter, it could be anywhere on the earth. Not only do you tell him to pick it out, but to pick it out 100 times in a row without missing one time. I believe it could be done, do you? Think about it.


Ok, lets see if I can get this right. This is what evolutionist believe right?
- About [Put number here] billion years ago the earth was formed.
- Chemicals formed in the "primordial soup".
- Chemicals bonded together to form molecules.
- Molecules bonded together to make living cell.
Right? That's pretty much the rough draft of how it goes right?

Since evolution is a proven fact, and we around here love facts and numbers and that sort of stuff. Here are the probability chances of things being formed (forgive the difference in color and font below, I had to make images because text wasn't coming out right).
Probability of amino acids forming into a protein: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/Arcanine_PC/191.png.
Probability of getting a cell by naturalistic processes: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/Arcanine_PC/40000.png.
According to the laws of probability, if the chance of an event occurring is smaller then 1 in http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/Arcanine_PC/50.png, then the event will never occur.
That's just two little old things. The human body is so complex with more stuff then you can shake a stick at. Right now we're sitting on amino acids and cells being impossible to be formed? Wow, what about everything else in the human body?


Remember that quarter story? The chances of that man finding that red quarter 100 times in a row without missing it is better then that stuff up there. You can believe evolution yet you can't believe that poor blind man can't find that quarter? Tons and tons and tons and tons of things has to go right just for a single cell to come alive. How old do you guys think the universe is? What is it, 20 or so billion (give or take a few)? To get everything right just for one or two "simple" things like a cell or a protein I think it'd take far far more then 20 billion years. But that's just me.


~ Fossils ~
Why are there no fossils where monkeys are turning into men? Why are there no fossils where you see fish turning into snakes or whatever? Did everything just BAM transform over night? One night a monkey goes to sleep and wakes up as a man or whatever? If that's how it goes then sure, I might take a look at evolution, can't be that bad if one day I'll just go BAM and turn into something fancy.
But really. All of you people say "Things evolved over millions of years.". Sure, I'll believe you when I see some fossils of half way points in things, see some fossils where a monkey does change into a man. I want to see the 4 middle parts from this image (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/Arcanine_PC/evolution.jpg), and not just the first and last parts. If evolution is a proven fact I'm sure no one would have any probs with giving me some links to sites with fossils of things evolving. Maybe something like fish to snakes (or whatever you guys are taught in schools, I just want to see what fish will turn into, because I like fish), or monkeys to humans. Anything big will do, I don't want a Japanese Beetle turning into a Cockroach, or a mouse turning into a rat. Too small for my tastes, I want something big. It shouldn't be that hard, because remember, evolution has been proved scientifically. A quick google search will likely bring up a long long list of sites and museums with fossils I'm looking for. And I'm sure all of the evolution gaps will be filled as well with the links and images you guys give.


~ Dinosaurs ~
Dinos came into being about 200 million years ago or something like that? And man/monkey came on years and years later, right? Then how come cave drawings show dinos and people together? I mean if they were millions and millions of years apart then how does man/monkey know about them and know how to draw them? How did they know this dino and that dino could fly, yet this one over here and that one over there couldn't? They were all stupid unevolved things right? So how do they know a T-Rex can't fly? They had to have seen them, they had to have been there. And on top of that, rocks and fossils have been found where human and dinosaur footprints are right next to each other (and I think in one or more cases the dino had a print in the ground and a human footprint was inside that dino print). Evolution people said dinosaurs and man had a big gap from one to another, then tell me how did that happen?


~ The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics ~
I'm going to make this one quick seeing how nothing much can be said about it (and I'm not going to get into it). What it means is everything is breaking down or dying (well dying is breaking down). It's going down to a more simple form. And this holds true to everything in the universe. Just park a car on the side of the road. Soon enough things will start to break down. Things will rust, fall apart, and given enough time will no long be a car like it started off as. Now according to evolution, things are getting better, things are evolving and are getting better and better each day. Doesn't go by the same standers as the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, things break down, order becomes disorder and yada yada.


~ Stars ~
We know what they are, we know there are different types of stars out there. And we know there are a TON of them out there. And we know stars have died off and collapsed in on themselves and likely ending up being a bad day for that star. The 2nd Law up there, things break down. Thus why we see stars die. But here's a question, why haven't we seen any stars born? We see them die, but not born? Evolution states that the universe is in an ever changing state. So surely we would be able to see a new start or two every now and then. Or are they just too far off?



My reasoning on all this is simple. A higher being (God) created the earth and everything else out there. It didn't happen by chance, it didn't just come to be because some group of molecules thought it was time to go boom, it was all designed and made.
Setting the Bible aside, where is the proof for evolution? Where are the fossils? Where are missing links? Where is the backing evolution has? Because it has a bunch of numbers backing it makes it true? Go back to the Origin of Life part up there. Look at them numbers (and if I had taken the time I would have had many many more "numbers" to throw in there as well).
Some would think I'm crazy for having faith in something unseen, something that can't be touched, or proven by any known ways we categorize things or prove things to be true.
And guys, all of you evolutionists are the same. You have faith in something unseen and not proven. Sure, all of you will say "Well there's proof." and I'm sure all of you will list a nice long list of things. What I listed up there is pretty simple. Fossils, cave drawings, dinosaurs, missing links, the formations of proteins and stuff. What is evolution based off of? Guessing, and faith that it's true. No one was there at the big bang to say "Wow, we were right".
Do I believe the Bible to be true, and credible, and correct, and all that stuff? Yes I do. Because if I can believe in a God that is able to make everything in the universe within 6 days I can believe that that God is able to keep the Bible safe and straight (as in not getting messed up).


"Science is being proven more right then religion is now-a-days", I love how that sounded. Mainly because scientist don't know everything. They find out new things, they disprove old things they've found out. So now scientists are all knowing yet disprove their own stuff and still can't explain something simple like why there aren't fossils to back this or that. Something like "That NO ONE knows, in which how the universe came into existence.", yet that same person discounts creation as wrong, stupid, out of date and so on?
I'm the kind of person that sicks back, looks at both sides of things (I had to study evolution stuff, I might not have listened to everything, but I got some out of it) and then makes my judgment from that. Sure if I believe in a God and believe the Bible there is no way I can believe evolution. But even if I didn't go to church, if I wasn't into the whole creation thing. I would still look for something else other then evolution. I mean billions of years ago something so small exploded and formed all the planets, stars, galaxies, moons, and so on. And millions of years ago something we know nothing about nor have seen or any record of came out from the primordial soup. That something used to be rocks, and such. That little something then found something to eat, and found a way to reproduce, and over time it became every living thing known in this word. Everything from trees, to animals, to people, to bacteria. It all came from a rock. I got rocks in my drive way, millions of years down the road them rocks will turn into something higher, something better. And in time human kind will evolve into something greater.
Even if I did believe all that, I'd look for something else. Or I just wouldn't care, I'd live my life the best I could on this little blue planet and wouldn't care where we're from or where we're going.
I do have faith in something unseen. I know people think I'm crazy for doing so. But I just know there is a God. You can't see the God, so how? You can't see the air, or the wind, yet you see the effects of it. Same way with me and my belief. I can see the effects on things, and people as well.
But all of you on the other side of the fence have faith as well. Faith that science is right, have faith that the "facts" of evolution is right, faith that the scientists are right and didn't mess up, and so on. I'm not saying scientists are bad, always wrong and all that. They have made many many advancements to better mankind over the years. People are living longer, people are more healthy, people don't have this or that disease, we have electricity, phones, TVs, cars, lots and lots of things we take for granted we owe to scientists. That doesn't mean they can't be wrong, that doesn't mean they can't make up their mind if eggs are good or bad for your health. I'm not dismissing scientists for evil people. I'm just dismissing the ones who think they're smart enough to say "the earth is this old, because we say so.". That's not proof enough for me to switch over to believing evolution. I'll stick with what I got, because not only does it make the most sense to me, but because I know it's true in my heart.


Will someone change their mind due to what I've said just now? Nope. Killer-Swift will not change his views no more then me changing mine on this matter. Was all the time typing all this up wasted? Nope. Even if I hate these topics, see them as pointless, wish they were all done away with, I still like to get in there and say a few things. Was I very bored before starting this? Yes I was XD. And will I be making anymore replies to this thread/topic? Unlikely, because most of the time I always put everything I got into one big post and if anyone goes "Well, you're wrong on this, this, and this" then there's nothing I can say or do to change that person's mind so it's pointless to make another super long reply (doesn't matter if I post this or that, they won't take it as proof). Same with anyone wanting to reply to my post. Will anyone on PC be able to post enough evidence to make me go "Wow... I was wrong, evolution is true."? Nope, because I know what I believe in, and that's not going to change no matter how much someone tries to prove me or Creation wrong.



So if you just want the straight to the point answer for this thread (like me, be too lazy to read all of it XD). I believe a God (the Christian God) created the earth and everything out there in 6 days.

Kayleigh
June 14th, 2007, 12:25 PM
Wow, Andy... you must have been bored. xD But that's a good thing, because your post owned. (And it saved me from typing something like that up eventually. :B) I definitely agree with you, Erimgard, Dark Magician, and everyone else who believes that we were created by God. It's something that I know in my heart is true, and nothing said could ever convince me otherwise.

And... I have no idea why I bothered replying. xD I guess I'm really bored, too.

Utapau
June 15th, 2007, 05:21 AM
I hate these topics. They get no where, I think their pointless, and I think PC would be better off without them, I know no one will come out of this thread with different views then what they came in with. All I see it doing is hurt PC and/or the members.
But after seeing a few "stupid" replies I thought I'd toss in my views.
Yes, I did just say this thread is pointless. Yes I am replying. Yes I am bored and have nothing better to do (and some of it may be said more then once, but I first typed it up at 4 am last night and I'm adding more. So if I do say some things twice it's due to me not remembering everything I said last night. And it's a long rant, so if you want straight to the point, read the last part all the way at the bottom).


I love Killer-Swift's first post in this thread. I truly truly do. He knows he's right and anyone that disagrees with him is stupid. This is the point if view that can hurt or help you. And that is the point of view I go by on PC and other things. I am always right and I don't care what anyone else says. And with that, both me and with that both me and Killer-Swift have something in common.
But it ends right there, because both of us can't be right.


Lets get started shall we.


~ The Big Bang ~
Here's a question for all of you that puts your "faith" in evolution. Where you there? Where you there when the bang happened? Where you there when the earth was formed? Pictures, Videos, Books, People, anything? Come on guys, you got to have some proof that you know that's how it happened.
I'm guessing none of you have proof that it happened (other then scientists telling you so). So I ask you this. Where did the first clump of matter come from? Was it just there for billions and billions of years and then one day just blew up? The matter had to come from somewhere, but where?
If you guys can't prove where the matter came from what is evolution based off of?

What I believe is a God (the Christian God, I just want to get that out up front) made the world, the universe, the plants, animals, the people and everything out there. Set it up just the right way from the start (I don't believe in all this "Well a God started evolution and people came that way". No, I believe in the 6 day creation. And 6 days I mean 6 days like we have now, not "Well 6 days could have meant 6 billion years", that doesn't fly with me). The world the right distance from the sun, tilted slightly, and all that stuff.


~ The Origin of Life ~
First off, I'm going to tell a little analogy. The whole world is covered with quarters (google it for you ones out of the US), every single inch (water and everything, these quarters float, there). You paint one of them quarters red (where all the rest are normal). You set a blind man down somewhere on the earth. And you tell him to pick out the red quarter, it could be anywhere on the earth. Not only do you tell him to pick it out, but to pick it out 100 times in a row without missing one time. I believe it could be done, do you? Think about it.


Ok, lets see if I can get this right. This is what evolutionist believe right?
- About [Put number here] billion years ago the earth was formed.
- Chemicals formed in the "primordial soup".
- Chemicals bonded together to form molecules.
- Molecules bonded together to make living cell.
Right? That's pretty much the rough draft of how it goes right?

Since evolution is a proven fact, and we around here love facts and numbers and that sort of stuff. Here are the probability chances of things being formed (forgive the difference in color and font below, I had to make images because text wasn't coming out right).
Probability of amino acids forming into a protein: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/Arcanine_PC/191.png.
Probability of getting a cell by naturalistic processes: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/Arcanine_PC/40000.png.
According to the laws of probability, if the chance of an event occurring is smaller then 1 in http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/Arcanine_PC/50.png, then the event will never occur.
That's just two little old things. The human body is so complex with more stuff then you can shake a stick at. Right now we're sitting on amino acids and cells being impossible to be formed? Wow, what about everything else in the human body?


Remember that quarter story? The chances of that man finding that red quarter 100 times in a row without missing it is better then that stuff up there. You can believe evolution yet you can't believe that poor blind man can't find that quarter? Tons and tons and tons and tons of things has to go right just for a single cell to come alive. How old do you guys think the universe is? What is it, 20 or so billion (give or take a few)? To get everything right just for one or two "simple" things like a cell or a protein I think it'd take far far more then 20 billion years. But that's just me.


~ Fossils ~
Why are there no fossils where monkeys are turning into men? Why are there no fossils where you see fish turning into snakes or whatever? Did everything just BAM transform over night? One night a monkey goes to sleep and wakes up as a man or whatever? If that's how it goes then sure, I might take a look at evolution, can't be that bad if one day I'll just go BAM and turn into something fancy.
But really. All of you people say "Things evolved over millions of years.". Sure, I'll believe you when I see some fossils of half way points in things, see some fossils where a monkey does change into a man. I want to see the 4 middle parts from this image (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/Arcanine_PC/evolution.jpg), and not just the first and last parts. If evolution is a proven fact I'm sure no one would have any probs with giving me some links to sites with fossils of things evolving. Maybe something like fish to snakes (or whatever you guys are taught in schools, I just want to see what fish will turn into, because I like fish), or monkeys to humans. Anything big will do, I don't want a Japanese Beetle turning into a Cockroach, or a mouse turning into a rat. Too small for my tastes, I want something big. It shouldn't be that hard, because remember, evolution has been proved scientifically. A quick google search will likely bring up a long long list of sites and museums with fossils I'm looking for. And I'm sure all of the evolution gaps will be filled as well with the links and images you guys give.


~ Dinosaurs ~
Dinos came into being about 200 million years ago or something like that? And man/monkey came on years and years later, right? Then how come cave drawings show dinos and people together? I mean if they were millions and millions of years apart then how does man/monkey know about them and know how to draw them? How did they know this dino and that dino could fly, yet this one over here and that one over there couldn't? They were all stupid unevolved things right? So how do they know a T-Rex can't fly? They had to have seen them, they had to have been there. And on top of that, rocks and fossils have been found where human and dinosaur footprints are right next to each other (and I think in one or more cases the dino had a print in the ground and a human footprint was inside that dino print). Evolution people said dinosaurs and man had a big gap from one to another, then tell me how did that happen?


~ The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics ~
I'm going to make this one quick seeing how nothing much can be said about it (and I'm not going to get into it). What it means is everything is breaking down or dying (well dying is breaking down). It's going down to a more simple form. And this holds true to everything in the universe. Just park a car on the side of the road. Soon enough things will start to break down. Things will rust, fall apart, and given enough time will no long be a car like it started off as. Now according to evolution, things are getting better, things are evolving and are getting better and better each day. Doesn't go by the same standers as the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, things break down, order becomes disorder and yada yada.


~ Stars ~
We know what they are, we know there are different types of stars out there. And we know there are a TON of them out there. And we know stars have died off and collapsed in on themselves and likely ending up being a bad day for that star. The 2nd Law up there, things break down. Thus why we see stars die. But here's a question, why haven't we seen any stars born? We see them die, but not born? Evolution states that the universe is in an ever changing state. So surely we would be able to see a new start or two every now and then. Or are they just too far off?



My reasoning on all this is simple. A higher being (God) created the earth and everything else out there. It didn't happen by chance, it didn't just come to be because some group of molecules thought it was time to go boom, it was all designed and made.
Setting the Bible aside, where is the proof for evolution? Where are the fossils? Where are missing links? Where is the backing evolution has? Because it has a bunch of numbers backing it makes it true? Go back to the Origin of Life part up there. Look at them numbers (and if I had taken the time I would have had many many more "numbers" to throw in there as well).
Some would think I'm crazy for having faith in something unseen, something that can't be touched, or proven by any known ways we categorize things or prove things to be true.
And guys, all of you evolutionists are the same. You have faith in something unseen and not proven. Sure, all of you will say "Well there's proof." and I'm sure all of you will list a nice long list of things. What I listed up there is pretty simple. Fossils, cave drawings, dinosaurs, missing links, the formations of proteins and stuff. What is evolution based off of? Guessing, and faith that it's true. No one was there at the big bang to say "Wow, we were right".
Do I believe the Bible to be true, and credible, and correct, and all that stuff? Yes I do. Because if I can believe in a God that is able to make everything in the universe within 6 days I can believe that that God is able to keep the Bible safe and straight (as in not getting messed up).


"Science is being proven more right then religion is now-a-days", I love how that sounded. Mainly because scientist don't know everything. They find out new things, they disprove old things they've found out. So now scientists are all knowing yet disprove their own stuff and still can't explain something simple like why there aren't fossils to back this or that. Something like "That NO ONE knows, in which how the universe came into existence.", yet that same person discounts creation as wrong, stupid, out of date and so on?
I'm the kind of person that sicks back, looks at both sides of things (I had to study evolution stuff, I might not have listened to everything, but I got some out of it) and then makes my judgment from that. Sure if I believe in a God and believe the Bible there is no way I can believe evolution. But even if I didn't go to church, if I wasn't into the whole creation thing. I would still look for something else other then evolution. I mean billions of years ago something so small exploded and formed all the planets, stars, galaxies, moons, and so on. And millions of years ago something we know nothing about nor have seen or any record of came out from the primordial soup. That something used to be rocks, and such. That little something then found something to eat, and found a way to reproduce, and over time it became every living thing known in this word. Everything from trees, to animals, to people, to bacteria. It all came from a rock. I got rocks in my drive way, millions of years down the road them rocks will turn into something higher, something better. And in time human kind will evolve into something greater.
Even if I did believe all that, I'd look for something else. Or I just wouldn't care, I'd live my life the best I could on this little blue planet and wouldn't care where we're from or where we're going.
I do have faith in something unseen. I know people think I'm crazy for doing so. But I just know there is a God. You can't see the God, so how? You can't see the air, or the wind, yet you see the effects of it. Same way with me and my belief. I can see the effects on things, and people as well.
But all of you on the other side of the fence have faith as well. Faith that science is right, have faith that the "facts" of evolution is right, faith that the scientists are right and didn't mess up, and so on. I'm not saying scientists are bad, always wrong and all that. They have made many many advancements to better mankind over the years. People are living longer, people are more healthy, people don't have this or that disease, we have electricity, phones, TVs, cars, lots and lots of things we take for granted we owe to scientists. That doesn't mean they can't be wrong, that doesn't mean they can't make up their mind if eggs are good or bad for your health. I'm not dismissing scientists for evil people. I'm just dismissing the ones who think they're smart enough to say "the earth is this old, because we say so.". That's not proof enough for me to switch over to believing evolution. I'll stick with what I got, because not only does it make the most sense to me, but because I know it's true in my heart.


Will someone change their mind due to what I've said just now? Nope. Killer-Swift will not change his views no more then me changing mine on this matter. Was all the time typing all this up wasted? Nope. Even if I hate these topics, see them as pointless, wish they were all done away with, I still like to get in there and say a few things. Was I very bored before starting this? Yes I was XD. And will I be making anymore replies to this thread/topic? Unlikely, because most of the time I always put everything I got into one big post and if anyone goes "Well, you're wrong on this, this, and this" then there's nothing I can say or do to change that person's mind so it's pointless to make another super long reply (doesn't matter if I post this or that, they won't take it as proof). Same with anyone wanting to reply to my post. Will anyone on PC be able to post enough evidence to make me go "Wow... I was wrong, evolution is true."? Nope, because I know what I believe in, and that's not going to change no matter how much someone tries to prove me or Creation wrong.



So if you just want the straight to the point answer for this thread (like me, be too lazy to read all of it XD). I believe a God (the Christian God) created the earth and everything out there in 6 days.

I love your unusual answer - you are right that the science that attempts to answer the "How we got here" question, and proclaim that the universe has predictable laws, is speculation and hypothesation - it is no more right than your story of six day creation.

I agree with your general statement that Science basically doesn't prove anything that it hasn't seen -- it assumes the whole universe has basic laws and that all of space and time is subject to them. Big Bang and evolution are based on assumptions.

However, I think this is the best thread in the entirety of pokecommunity.com. I do not think you should beso unreceptive to a diversity in opinions. Nothing worth talking about, will have every one agreeing on one point - nothing worth talking about will "get anywhere", because any declaration of a right or wrong answer is merely a delusion - there is no right or wrong where things are speculated about.

ReMoTe CoNtRoL dOnT wOrK nO mOrE
June 15th, 2007, 09:32 AM
i like it if we were all reincarnated

i just thought of another cool thing what if we were all actually not in a real world, like in the matrix

Razer302
June 15th, 2007, 09:41 AM
remote control dont work no more, please dont double post. Next time edit your previos one.
I think me have evolved from animals. But I don't believe we evolved from apes and monkeys.

viridian doubletongue
June 15th, 2007, 10:11 AM
We will never ever know. I'm not going to follow or think of any argument here.

I don't believe that it's a question that can be answered.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone here, but when I see someone who claims to know, just because they know, it angers me. When someone disproves other ideas without really trying to prove their own, it angers me. And when someone just sees what they want to see and applies ideas to whatever they want to.

The only way we'll know of a grand creator is if there's an afterlife. Or if such a creator directly contacts a person. But I'm not going into that.

I suppose I've never been sure. I was raised by a Catholic mother and a father who follows scientific ideas of the universe.
It was confusing when I would go to church with mum and then come home and watch the discovery channel with dad.

Unless I have a spiritual experience of some kind, or someone comes forth with a complete grand unified theory of the universe and evolution, which comes out with an answer when applied to everything, I won't be able to believe anything.

Well, that's just me.

Utapau
June 15th, 2007, 02:45 PM
We will never ever know. I'm not going to follow or think of any argument here.

I don't believe that it's a question that can be answered.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone here, but when I see someone who claims to know, just because they know, it angers me. When someone disproves other ideas without really trying to prove their own, it angers me. And when someone just sees what they want to see and applies ideas to whatever they want to.

The only way we'll know of a grand creator is if there's an afterlife. Or if such a creator directly contacts a person. But I'm not going into that.

I suppose I've never been sure. I was raised by a Catholic mother and a father who follows scientific ideas of the universe.
It was confusing when I would go to church with mum and then come home and watch the discovery channel with dad.

Unless I have a spiritual experience of some kind, or someone comes forth with a complete grand unified theory of the universe and evolution, which comes out with an answer when applied to everything, I won't be able to believe anything.

Well, that's just me.

You are very wise - this is what I have been saying, in much simpler words.