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Dachampster
July 28th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Can the main character be a Gary Stu and still not ruin the story, if it it well played out and thought of? Because my main character owns a huge organization that nearly destroyed Hoenn, and I want to know how to play it well, if I havent already.

Grovyle42(Griff8416)
July 28th, 2007, 07:22 PM
What exactly is "a Gary Stu"?

Blastinus
July 28th, 2007, 08:41 PM
A Gary Stu is a male version of a Mary Sue. What these characters are are perfect beings that have every good character love them, and every bad character hate them. They can accomplish many difficult tasks and learn many difficult skills without even trying. Most of them are self-inserts, where the author wishes to enter the world they are writing about. (For a really great example of this, read Eragon. XD)

And Dachampster, it really depends on the writer's skill how obvious a Gary Stu is. I haven't read your fic yet, so I can't make judgment on your skills. If you would like me to, I can read your fic and leave one of my special reviews, which go in-depth. Then I can help you out more because I'll actually know what you're talking about.

lilninjapig
July 29th, 2007, 12:10 AM
Gary. Stus. Never. Work. Go to one of the main fanfiction sites, look up Teen Titans, and you'll see what I mean.

Grovyle42(Griff8416)
July 29th, 2007, 06:47 AM
In that case, I'd say it really depends on HOW much of a Gary Sue they are. My main character is an insert of me, but he has good characters which can't stand him. And I definatly wouldn't call him a Larry Stu, since he has flaws...I mean whats a character without flaws?...unrealistic.

*edit* Replace Sue with Stu and Larry with Gary.

Dachampster
July 29th, 2007, 11:27 AM
I'd like people to read it, as long as the comments arent so long that they scare the pants off me.

Grovyle42(Griff8416)
July 29th, 2007, 02:51 PM
Is this for a seperate story or your current one?

Blastinus
July 29th, 2007, 09:58 PM
Gary. Stus. Never. Work. Go to one of the main fanfiction sites, look up Teen Titans, and you'll see what I mean.
It depends on the skills of the writer. Sure, your average rabid fangirl who wants to write fanfiction so she can marry her favorite canon character could write a story where it's obvious that the characters are Sues. But there have been some characters who don't seem like Sues on the surface because their authors have written them well. It's only after someone takes a deeper look at the characters, they could be labeled as such.

And Griff, you have it right. The main problem with Sues is that everyone loves them aside from the evil people, and the Sues have no flaws. All humans have flaws, and if your character has flaws, they can connect better with the reader. That's the one of the main things that writers should be focused on.

Orange_Flaaffy
July 29th, 2007, 10:20 PM
It depends on the skills of the writer. Sure, your average rabid fangirl who wants to write fanfiction so she can marry her favorite canon character could write a story where it's obvious that the characters are Sues. But there have been some characters who don't seem like Sues on the surface because their authors have written them well. It's only after someone takes a deeper look at the characters, they could be labeled as such.

And Griff, you have it right. The main problem with Sues is that everyone loves them aside from the evil people, and the Sues have no flaws. All humans have flaws, and if your character has flaws, they can connect better with the reader. That's the one of the main things that writers should be focused on.
But not too much or you get an anti-sue, which is even worst IMHO ;)

Dachampster
July 31st, 2007, 01:13 PM
Ok. Yes, sometimes it seems that they want you to write a story about a helpless, flaw- entrapped kid with mental issues, hates everyone, looks ugly, has barely any Pokémon, and does nothing of importance. Then what?

Grovyle42(Griff8416)
August 1st, 2007, 04:51 AM
Well that's a bit of an overstatement...

A character doesn't have to be grotesque or insane or universally hated. Just give them one or two flaws (such as them being too dependent or too independent, or perhaps too confident of themselves, or too stubborn) to make the characters interesting to read about and to develope upon. that's what I did with mine since the flaw can be either for the better or the worse.

Just make sure you're careful if you do a perfect character.

Dachampster
August 1st, 2007, 05:00 PM
Im not. Im just curious. what about my new installment? Does it have any Gary Stu-ness?

JX Valentine
August 2nd, 2007, 07:27 AM
Ok. Yes, sometimes it seems that they want you to write a story about a helpless, flaw- entrapped kid with mental issues, hates everyone, looks ugly, has barely any Pokémon, and does nothing of importance. Then what?

Those sorts of people have no idea what a Mary Sue is in the first place.

Basically, yeah, Grovyle has it right. What separates a developed character from a Mary Sue is basically how believable the character is.

If you're worried about making a Gary Stu, here's a tip: start thinking like the character. Figure out what the character's personality is like and put yourself in their shoes. Does any part of their personality cause any sort of hindrance to them? They don't have to be helpless necessarily (as that in itself may make an angst Sue), but they just have to have their own pitfalls, just like any other person. Once you start working in that mindset, you really don't have to worry about making Sues or Stus.

Now, I haven't read your story, personally, but I can say that you're probably worrying a bit too much. The more you worry, the more likely you'll end up creating a character for the sole purpose of trying to make an anti-Sue (which is sometimes just as bad), rather than attempting to make a person, you know what I mean?

Dachampster
August 2nd, 2007, 03:48 PM
Ok, I guess I'm worrying too much.

Grovyle42(Griff8416)
August 2nd, 2007, 04:18 PM
Im not. Im just curious. what about my new installment? Does it have any Gary Stu-ness?

Which is your new installment?

Dachampster
August 4th, 2007, 05:40 AM
Sigh... the last installment is the new installment.

Grovyle42(Griff8416)
August 4th, 2007, 05:55 AM
In that case, not really.

When you said "My new installment" I kind of got the impression that there was more than one.

Chibi Pika
August 16th, 2007, 09:30 PM
It depends.

If a character is a Gary-stu is the full sense, then no, not really... However, they can most certainly have 'stu-ish traits and yet still be a 3D, realistic character. Doing grand or significant things, and having large roles in the plot is not a crime. Go with what seems right--write them as real people, and everything should turn out.

~Chibi~

Dragonfree
August 18th, 2007, 10:30 PM
Well, the basic point is that if he's well done, he isn't a Gary-Stu. The definition of a Gary-Stu is that he just doesn't work. He's inexplicably lucky or absurdly good at everything or related to ridiculously many canon characters just for the heck of it or is so good-looking that the author can't write a single paragraph about him without reminding the readers of it. He's always right and everybody loves him (unless said character is throughout the story shunned and portrayed to be a jackass). This has much more to do with how the character is written than the character himself. You can have a character who, by himself, seems slightly Stuish, but you write him realistically, without basing the whole world around his greatness, and thus he doesn't actually end up being a Gary-Stu.

Frostweaver
August 18th, 2007, 10:59 PM
Well, the basic point is that if he's well done, he isn't a Gary-Stu. The definition of a Gary-Stu is that he just doesn't work. He's inexplicably lucky or absurdly good at everything or related to ridiculously many canon characters just for the heck of it or is so good-looking that the author can't write a single paragraph about him without reminding the readers of it. He's always right and everybody loves him (unless said character is throughout the story shunned and portrayed to be a jackass). This has much more to do with how the character is written than the character himself. You can have a character who, by himself, seems slightly Stuish, but you write him realistically, without basing the whole world around his greatness, and thus he doesn't actually end up being a Gary-Stu.

In another words, for a Pokemon story, only consider this question:

"Is your male character identical to Ash Ketchum in the anime excluding physical appearance and what Pokemon he has?" If yes, then I recommend you to restart your story.