I spent too long typing this up, and I'll be damned if no one reads it.
Updated November 1st, 2008 at 4:07 PM by Motsuko Live
My reply to that thread.
[quote=txteclipse;4086418]If the majority of the country decides a rule should be in effect, it must go into effect. This is democracy. I've said this many times already. I'm not saying the entire country is Christian. I'm saying a good portion of it is, [B]and we want equal representation[/B]. When the few have the majority vote, democracy has failed.[/quote]
Equal representation, huh? Is that what you're after? So why are you allowed to have it, but gays and lesbians aren't? What makes you so special? What gives you more of a right to have 'equal representation' than these people? Because you're Christian? But God wants us to treat everyone equal; it says so multiple times in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we should treat everyone equal [B]except[/B] gays and lesbians.
Anyway, about the majority bit;
You're right; the majority should rule. Truth of the matter is, the 'majority' you seem to rely so much on doesn't quite have your back on this one. I mean, even on this Pokemon Forum: the polls are thrity for gay marriage and eight against. If the members of something as childish as a Pokemon Forum are able to see there's nothing wrong with gay marriage, I'm sure the whole state of California will, too.
They invented condoms because people have so little control over their sexual desires that they needed a way to stop us from having so many babies. That and it's a good business venture: lots of money is made through sales of birth control.
Anyways, people have sex to a) have babies, b) feel good, and/or c) to express love.
That's nice and all, but you really didn't answer my question. Two out of three of those reasons are not for reproduction, and naturally, people are going to have sex for pleasure/to express love more than they are going to have it to reproduce.
If you are referring to [I]married[/I] couples, I have no trouble with them using birth control. They should be the only people having sex in the first place, as far as I'm concerned. Obviously this is not the case, but...tolerance.[/quote]
Last time I checked, sex before marraige was a pretty big sin; bigger than homosexuality (which actually isn't even a sin, but you seem to think it is, so... )
Anyway, you're saying you're willing to be tolerant for straight couples who have sex before marraige, but not gay couples who [I]want[/I] to get married? So you're basically saying that gay people are: a)Not allowed to get married, and b) Not allowed to engage in any sexual activities, [B]because[/B] they're not married.
Do you see what I'm saying here? You're contradicting yourself. You say you don't want unmarried couples haveing sex, but then you turn around and say you don't want certain couples to get married. It just makes no sense!
I am willing to sit here and defend what is me and mine from immoral actions that are slowly polluting the world around me. And guess what? I have plenty of male friends that I have [I]no desire whatsoever[/I] to be sexually active with. I would consider some of them to be closer than I could ever come to a woman. Love and sex are exclusive: you keep acting like they aren't. There is such a thing as platonic love.[/quote]
You're right, there is. So why can't two induviduals who just happen to be of the same gender express it? Never have I once said that all gay couples are going to have sex. They're just like we are; they love somebody else, and want to get married to them. Unfortunately, it's people like you who are keeping them from doing just that.
What do you think people said when blacks and whites were integrated? There was just as much, if not more controversy over it. I'm [I]positive[/I] there were people referring to the bible as well, saying how 'Un-Christian' it would be. But look how it's turned out. In a couple days, a black male will be elected [B]President of the United States[/B], and in my opinion, he'll be the best damn president you guys will ever see. But what if we hadn't integrated blacks and whites? What if we had listened to all these nay sayers and discriminators. What if we'd never given integration [I]a chance?[/I] We definitely would not be as advanced as we are today, and I'm sure even you can agree with me on that.
So why can't we do the same for gay marraige? Give it a chance, for crying out loud. Swollow your pride, put down the rag and stop polishing your ego for one second; think. What have gay people ever done to you? Nothing, that's what. Yet you still choose to discriminate for something one cannot control. That, my friend, is the [I]exact[/I] definition of discrimination. So, I am as direct and straight-forward as humanly possible when I say that [I]you[/I] sir, are a [B]discriminator.[/B]
[quote=txteclipse;4086418]And here we go again with the majority of society deciding what is acceptable. [I]You can do whatever you want as long as the rest of society is okay with you doing so[/I]. If they feel you shouldn't be doing it, and they are in the majority, you have no right to do it anyways. See Exhibit 1: shoplifters.[/quote]
That's not true; I'm sure the majority of the people feel one should not be ignorant, yet you have the right to do so. (Yes, you do. That's not just something I came up with off the top of my head).
And how dare you refer to gay marraige as shoplifting. Shoplifting is something that has a negative effect on another human being. As much as you may beg to differ, gay marraige does not, and never will effect [I]anyone[/I] in a negative way.
On top of this, being gay is a [I]choice[/I]. [I]You[/I] decide what your sexual orientation is. [I]You[/I] decide what impulses to act on. It is [I]your responsibility[/I]. Saying otherwise is a cop-out. It would be like my shoplifter example saying they [I]have[/I] to steal because they were [I]born[/I] that way.[/quote]
As many others have said before me, no; homosexuality is most certainly not a choice. I think what Yamikarasu said was very interesting, so I'll let him speak for me:
[quote]If gay was a choice, why would anyone choose to be gay? If it goes against our brains and our bodies, like you claim, why would they? Why would they choose to belong to a group that is so discriminated against by people such as yourself?[/quote]
If being gay was genetic, it would have been bred out of the human race by the first few generations. Gay = no children, except in rare instances. In fact, it is such a direct reproductive deterrent that it would be foolish to say it could last this long.[/quote]
So only fertile human beings are allowed to love? How about women with non-productive ovaries? Or women who have gone through menopause? Should they not be allowed to marry either? Or older people. Should they automatically have to divorce because they're unable to reproduce?
Besides, gay couples are able to reproduce. Maybe not genetically by both parents, but one partner could offer either their sperm or their womb. And what about adoption! Homosexual couples are more than likely to adopt an unwanted child than have artificial insemenation or look for a surogate female, thus lowering the rate of children in foster care.
You think I enjoy doing this? You think I enjoy watching people do things like this to themselves? Homosexuality is one of the most tragic lies Satan has ever fed into society. I take [I]no[/I] pride in seeing what is happening to people. This isn't an ego trip for me: it's a spiritual war in which there are too many casualties. Please don't think that I'm doing this to feel good about myself or whatever. This is about me protecting myself and mine from what I regard as a destructive lie.[/quote]
That's one opinion on the matter.
And I'm not without fault: I would never, [I]ever[/I] claim that. In fact, without going into details, I have some fault in [I]this[/I] matter, or one like it. But at least I do not hide behind pretenses of righteousness. I recognize that what I do is wrong, and I try to correct it. And if I were harming society, I would expect society to keep me from doing so, per their wishes. I can't force you to think in the same manner, but that's where tolerance comes in.[/quote]
I ask you again; would you mind explaining to me how gay marraige is 'harming society'? It's harming you, sir. You, and a few other who think like you. Are you so self-righteous that you're going to call yourself 'The Society'? It's people who are closed minded that harm society. There's always going to be skeptics; always going to be something that somebody doesn't like. There's always going to be something new, too; first it was the black people, now it's the gay people. It used to be the gay men; they were the ones who brought aids. Now it's the gay men [I]and[/I] the lesbian women. There's [I]always[/I] going to be something, and there's [I]always[/I] going to be someone who doesn't like it.
Another point; there's been numerous studies done a couple years back, and they all indicate that gay couples are [I]less likely[/I] to divorce than straight couples.
My mother is white. My father is black. When they were married, my grandmother had a fit. The funny thing is, when I was born, she quit all the fussing and complaining. I now know for a fact that my grandmother loves me very much.
It just goes to show that sometimes, situations that others may not agree with can become the catalyst to produce another way of thinking for that induvidual(s).
All in all, we as human beings need to be accepting of other human being's beliefs. You're going to see a lot of things you may not agree with in this world; a lot of things that go against your morals, and your values. But if we don't accept them as equal opinions, our world will never progress.
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