October 12th, 2012 7:07 PMmachomuu
How have you been, lately? Have you been getting more sleep, or are you still overworking yourself?
September 27th, 2012 9:30 AMmachomuu
I simply went on because there was always to be discussed; but really, I see no reason to continue with your frustration on high. It only has its cons to continue, no one's going to admit defeat, anyway, it'd just go on until someone throws their hands up and says "screw it, I'm outta here". What's more, emotions affect arguments, and I can already see where this will go (or has already gone) in light of that. Though, I do apologize for making you so mad; after all, I was the one that said I would come to your aid if you ever needed help, and this whole debacle really seems rather contradictory on my part, and even more that you have to keep coming back here despite the fact that I'm trying to dissuade you from visiting the temp so often.
I will say this, though, I've been holding back quite a bit. Often I wonder if I should say one thing instead of the other because one thing is more aggressive than the other and it will make you dislike me more than you already do. I realize that this...pain that I feel, it isn't the pain of caring what others think or feeling their malice, it's the incredible frustration I hold inside rather than taking it out on the person I'm talking to. I repress it so that they will feel better about me, and often times my arguments come out weaker because I'm repressing my true thoughts filled with frustrations. I have listened to everything that you said, every last bit. I have listened to your arguments and counterarguments, and I have taken them into consideration. I'm listening well, and I make rebuttals completely based on the points that you feel are valid. It may seem like I'm being "stubborn" and "am not listening to what you're saying", but I am. I've analyzed your logic, I listened to your rebuttals, and I researched to make my arguments stronger to counter yours. I studied Physics, Pokemon, ballistics- all of it, but every single time you would completely refute it, even going as far as to say that I'm talking out of ignorance and stubbornness and that I didn't research any of it. You clearly don't respect me, that much is I can tell, but I can't simply sit here and be attacked for things that I know myself aren't true. I, however, respect you, at least so much that I wouldn't insult your intelligence by making ignorant statements, that would simply make me look like a bumbling idiot, and I would have to think rather low of you to completely and utterly waste your time like that (and mine). I did, though, let all of it go, and decided not to go on the attack, because I was genuinely interested in you, and I still am. I enjoy talking with you about the things we relate on (and don't), and just general life. I mean, even though this is the internet, we're still people. So go on, if you feel this calls for further discussion, go ahead, and if you want to completely stop talking to me, completely ignore me, that's fine as well...but I'm not going to fight back, these years of pent up frustration will indeed surface if I continue, and I certainly don't want to take that out on you. I'd rather you have the distaste you have for me now than the bitter scorn that would be born from further discussion.
September 26th, 2012 9:49 PMPkMnTrainer Yellow
You blatantly don't know the first thing about ballistics. You don't listen. I am so irate right now. You have wasted so much of my time with this. You want to stop /now/? Too late. I'm so far gone, and y'know what? I don't want to hear from you. Is that something you understand? Do I need to make it more clear for you? Should I go out of my way to PROVE that I don't in fact want receive further communication from you?
September 26th, 2012 12:50 PMmachomuu
I disagree. It's not so much based on stubbornness as it is the facts. I based my argument entirely on correlations to the game and facts of actual physics. In other words, my argument is based entirely on my knowledge of the games and the universes, rather than conjecture. That doesn't make it fact, though, but rather, it makes for a feasible theory. It would be wrong to call that ignorance. In fact, my argument is based entirely on logic, but you quickly said that my physics didn't mean anything, despite the fact that I can give you actual formulas to support my theories, and thus, I brought the logic and differences between our universes into it, because logic wouldn't get to you, you just wouldn't accept Physics (which is VITAL if you want to at all talk about this from an objective point of view or present a strong subjective theory). You say that Extreme Speed is faster than a bullet. Now, how would one support that? It is, indeed, possible to, but I will get to that later on. The pokedex entrees indeed say that it is "blindingly fast", but so is a speeding bullet. In fact, I know that one must take mass, acceleration, velocity, air resistance, and distance to calculate the damage, as well as the size and its dimensions (both of which are especially important in the case of a bullet, as the small size is made incredibly lethal and/or effective due to its shape, a large bullet would most definitely be less effective than a regular one, as its "puny" size makes it more efficient for piercing). That's how fast a speeding bullet goes. Then we must also calculate how much damage a bullet (depending on the type) can take before it is destroyed, and thus, we can further estimate how effective it would be on the target (by calculating the thickness, resistance, and mass of the in/organic materials that the bullet must navigate through and the stopping power of those materials and what affect they would have on the speed and acceleration, and thus, the piercing potential). I said something similar to this in the thread, but you just flat out denied it, and you can't just do that as there is no way to take an objective stance without it. What you see in the games and mere descriptions will not help you to completely understand unless you can convert the effect of the attack to a physics equation. Science is key to understanding fact, you can't just refute it with what you see, especially not without irrefutable evidence. Pokemon may be simple, but the developers aren't stupid, and they don't make attacks the completely defeat every sense of surreal logic; they try to make sense in terms of the Pokemon rather than making things that destroy all logical thought. And I'm not saying you can't bring Physics into Pokemon, the beautiful thing about it is that you can! In the case of Extreme Speed, one would calculate the acceleration, mass, size, shape, speed, and acceleration due to gravity of the pokemon. In this case, it would be more subjective as one would have to consider what they feel that a "blinding" speed entails (as, in my opinion, that is the fastest adjective used to describe the speed of the pokemon), specifically, we don't actually know the speed and acceleration, thus we must estimate as to what the values could be in miles per hour (we can pick something else, but that is the closest thing we can do to relate it to that of a speeding bullet). But, even still, it is possible. It's not possible to get something that is exact, it would always be a theoretical speed (due to the lack of knowledge about the exact speed). That is to assume that the two universes have the same, or similar, laws of physics (though, from what is shown in the games, one can infer that they at least appear to be quite similar). However, if one is to take the stance that it, indeed, isn't, then they must either state that it is merely a supposition or I'm not just spouting nonsense and I'm not ignorant to the relevant subject matter, I am using what we do and don't know about our universes and making correlations and what I consider to be valid and supported theories. If you don't agree with me and still think I'm spouting nonsense, I have an insurmountable amount of Pokedex entries and research books to support my theories. And as I said, you obviously can't say anything, that is, again, basic knowledge. I agree with you there, it would show true ignorance for one to think otherwise. You can only say what is supported by the established canon or universe of the subject matter, including the various correlations and implications made in the games, and that is the basis for my theories as well as my opinion about roleplays, and that is the backbone of canon. I stated this in my last post (and probably before that as well), but my entire argument isn't about roleplay, very little of it is (specifically, in this post, "And as I said" down to after this parenthesis, in the previous post, simply the parts that directly reference it) this is more about respecting canon and subjectivity/objectivity than anything else.
/Wall of Text
I honestly see no reason to completely forget what I just said for any reason, I have done quite a bit of research and I see no reason to completely give it up. If you find it so ridiculous, then counter me, or even better, post it in the "General Pokemon [Gaming] Discussion" forum, then we can have a much larger discussion with people of a variety of IQs and the like, it'd be fine with me. Or rather, we can end it here (though I do find this talk of Physics enjoyable), though I am considering posting about this there, anyway. I'm sorry if it makes you mad, and honestly that is not my intention, I have absolutely nothing against you, but it saddens me that all of what I have said is so blatantly and easily refuted and then I be called ignorant and stubborn on top of that.
EDIT: Better yet, we may as well end it here. There's no sense in trying your temper any more than I already have, and this certainly isn't something I want on my mind 24/7 (seriously, this stuff is bad for my health).
September 26th, 2012 9:40 AMPkMnTrainer Yellow
The notion that all things need to be directly explained and that just because we're allowed to interpret something means we can drop logic and interpret it however we want is /ridiculous/. Your entire argument is based on ignorance. (We can't prove it's this way, so it should be however we want.) Mine, in contrast, is based on an objective attempt to understand what the rightful owners of the series want it to be! (It seems pretty clear that this is what they are aiming for based on what is observable in their works, even if it's remotely possible that it could be different.)Quote:The proper way to handle it when someone provides solid evidence that your idea contradicts canon is to take that, accept it, and use it to improve your writing. This is roleplay. Anyone can do whatever they want regardless of series. The ability to refrain from doing whatever you want is the basics of what separates a good writer from a not so good writer.
At the risk of sounding dismissive, it's about time you either got a new argument altogether or gave up. Continued stubbornness is only going to make me increasingly hostile due to sheer frustration.
September 25th, 2012 1:44 PMmachomuu
I'm not disrespecting it, I'm simply pointing out what is done. The games are made to be simple RPGs with great accessibility; that's pokemon, and I see nothing wrong with that (It does have complex mechanics (such as breeding and EV training), though). I don't see any disrespect in that, it's like saying I'm disrespecting Kingdom Hearts or Metal Gear Solid for calling them convoluted; I'm not, it's their convolution is what makes them great. Pokemon's the same way, I don't think I, in any way, disrespected Pokemon or its creators. As far as my true opinion goes, I haven't said anything negative towards the series in this post or the last.
And I think you're misunderstanding my point about canon. Pokemon is an intentionally vague series, and I could give several examples that support that theory. Taking advantage of that vagueness is what gives people freedom in roleplays. For instance, in the thread, there was little to no evidence, and if there was what one would call "evidence", then it was certainly refutable; people were just throwing around theories. Saying the series isn't vague would be hard to support, especially since they most likely do that on purpose as well (and if you feel that the "vagueness theory" is what is disrespectful, I'd disagree there, as well). It is, after all, a great way of maintaining simplicity. Obviously contradicting canon isn't good to do in roleplay, but you know what? Contradicting canon isn't good at all (except when creating something where it intentionally creates its own laws that contradict those of the source material). That's basic knowledge, not something one needs to be told. However, if evidence isn't irrefutable then it's not necessarily breaking canon. You can't tell me I'm wrong if I say that eggs are created from the coagulated blood from to pokemon, reason being that there's no existing contradictory evidence to support it or refute it. Now let's use a relevant example, the gun theory. Saying that a gun would not hurt a pokemon is theory, even if you correlate it to actual moves, it is not fact. Similarly, the opposite is true, and without an established set of laws of physics (and various other factors and variables), it's impossible to prove (and at the same time, impossible to disprove). Sure, one can argue it as much as they want, but it is impossible to come up with an answer that will be fact.
But as I said, I like pokemon, and the things I don't like about it, as far as I remember, I haven't revealed (at least, not on this forum). The things I have stated (being the things above) are not only the things that make the games so popular and accessible, but also what Taijiri wanted them to be (as is implied by his comments about the games and how they came into existence).
September 25th, 2012 12:44 PMPkMnTrainer Yellow
...See, you do this thing where you disrespect the series and/or it's creators and it has been eating at my temper like acid. The series deserves more credit than you're giving it.
The proper way to handle it when someone provides solid evidence that your idea contradicts canon is to take that, accept it, and use it to improve your writing. This is roleplay. Anyone can do whatever they want regardless of series. The ability to refrain from doing whatever you want is the basics of what seperates a good writer from a not so good writer.
Anyway, I don't see the appeal of immersing myself in a sea of "ignorance, narcissism, and stubbornness" just to voice my opinion. There was a time when I had enough strength to stand up for myself and what I thought was right just to say I tried, but that time is gone.
All I have in response to the notion that I should is stories of emotional trauma and an intense feeling of pointlessness.
I'm much happier doing what I'm doing now...
September 24th, 2012 1:16 PMmachomuu
Regarding the thread, I just got too passionate about things I may or may not have felt at the time, and despite the fact that I mentioned logic several times...well, I misrepresented my feelings about logic, how logic is supposed to be looked at. I wrote a lot, and thus I was impulsive, I'd say that is one of my fatal flaws. The reason goes back to evidence...no, it goes back to the vagueness of pokemon. I impulsively said that, due to the vagueness and the inconsistencies, Pokemon does not follow logic. That was a mistake, and it's not at all true.
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde doesn't follow any logic, it truly epitomizes chaos, a simple lack of care and order. Pokemon, is different; but it's not so much vague as it is intentionally disregarding relaying info, and there's a good reason for it. Pokemon is an RPG that relies mostly on turn-based combat and the travel of a child (or a youth, in the case of Toko and Toya)on a journey to defeat the Pokemon League. It's a Turn Based Game that emphasizes the gameplay aspects rather than the world itself, many games are like this (such as the early Final Fantasy games, and really, a bunch of RPGs). Pokemon prides itself in its apparent simplicity, and its not so much that it's immature that it doesn't go into detail about this (it does, in various Pokedex entries), but it's that simplicity, that accessibility factor (which is largely why the games are so popular with kids) that gives the RPGs their charm (or their popularity, given your viewpoint).
That's what I was referring to when I was talking about RPs, though again, I misrepresented my true feelings. Pokemon is indeed vague in various subjects, but not wrongly so, and it is because of that vagueness that we, as RPers, truly have freedom. We're not bound by matters to distinct, and many aspects are open to interpretation. We can theorize, make certainties that aren't necessarily fact. Like, what do pokemon actually do when they have eggs? One person could say they have sex, and another could say that, say, they extract blood from each other and that blood reacts and creates an egg. Neither of them are necessarily right, but they may not be wrong, either; and I know that that's very basic knowledge, but the reason I say this is because it really makes no difference if someone doesn't have solid, definitive proof that what they're saying is irrefutably true (well, there's another reason, actually). It is because of that that, with pokemon specifically, people can have as much fun as they want with it (in terms of imagination and the like, but can also refer to playing the games as well), because there is so much about the series that is subject to change (and interpretation).
So yeah, those are my real thoughts on what was originally mentioned for just two paragraphs. I have no trouble with following canon, mainly because I spend a lot of time on wikis that I like when I look something up, and I'm not one to break canon very often (though I'm certainly not in the canon police, but I will call someone out on canon breaking due to my Ace Attorney fetish). As I said, my impulsive nature (in posting) is really my biggest (internet) flaw.
In fact, it often gets me into some pretty crappy situations, especially since, as much as I like to deny it, I care far, FAR too much about what others think. I'm not insecure, and I don't know if I'd call it "caring"...I guess it's because I have a tendency to overthink things. A lot. It's great when it comes to things like philosophy and reviewing, but it's terrible when it comes to pretty much everything else. That's the reason I didn't come online yesterday, I really couldn't stop thinking about the discussion...and that's really the reason I had it cut short (well, the biggest reason). It really ruins a day. Playing Dot Hack GU (<3) intently helped, but even then I kept thinking about it. It's a big problem, considering I love discussions and the like. Actually, it's really the biggest reason I don't debate things with you, because the debates don't usually end well. I guess you could say that I'm sensitive, in that sense. It's something I'm getting better at dealing with, and I didn't feel the "pain" (if I can even call it that) from the last discussion that I usually do...not as much, at least. But really, I feel that the pain is felt most when I'm alone in my venture, when there are others who agree (or don't) that don't voice their opinions and views; that's why I said, a few months ago, that if you need any help you should just call on me. You shouldn't be driven away from legit and deep discussion because of ignorance, narcissism, and stubbornness, and the offer still stands. Enjoy your life, deprive you of something that should be so equally offered to everyone; just remember that you have friends that are willing to help you out, even if they're just strangers from the internet.
...Dear God, I wrote a lot. Sorry for ruining your profile page...'
September 23rd, 2012 6:12 AMPkMnTrainer Yellow
The "main forum"? I'm not sure I know what you mean...
I used to frequent Other Chat... before I came to the RPC.
Quite frankly, I felt like people tended to either just ignore me or use me as something to beat up on. People never really seemed to care for what I had to say, regardless of how reasonable I was, and I was attacked on a personal level quite a few times. I also felt unable to trust the local mod to protect my right to discuss without being attacked because they had a different opinion than I. Don't even get me started on the hypocrisy.
Every post there made me feel as if I were throwing myself into a pit of lions for the right to speak my mind. Ceasing to read/post there lowered my stress levels by a large margin and literally managed to improve my quality of life, and not just because I stopped having bursts of rage every time a new terribad thread on Religion or Abortion reared it's ugly head. I eventually gave up. My health was not worth it. The discussions tended to resemble fights amongst wild animals moreso than the actual pursuit of truth or the betterment of oneself. I don't recall anyone except myself ever actually taking the time to admit their views had been changed by something someone had said.
The stress and emotional turmoil was enough to bring out my own animosity at times too. And... that's why I do not go to Other Chat anymore. Given this was all... years ago? for all I know things are much different now, but I have just... never felt willing to give it another chance. If people really want to hear my opinions and my standpoints, they can ask me themselves.
Why would they though? I've got a diagnosed disability that impacts my ability to understand the world around me! What was /I/ thinking? I'm honestly not sure why it bothers you that I often keep my thoughts to myself.
Also, I wouldn't say that topic was unrelated to roleplay. Understanding your canonity is key to good writing. Sure, you can plow through the canonity and do what you want, and maybe even be a decent writer in the end. But a /great/ writer works around the canonity to get the same results. Respecting your canonity is not a limitation to your imagination, but rather it encourages you to find more creative, less crude ways to go about things.
For instance, if I hadn't respected the game's canonity, Pokemon Fallout probably would've just been a standard "Yo, this is an alternate universe where pokemon and humans are born fused", and I dare say there is absolutely no way that concept could be written well enough to compare with the story I wound up writing because I took the time to work around the canonity instead of through it.
September 22nd, 2012 4:01 PMmachomuu
I honestly don't understand why you don't visit the main forum. Before I did, but you're far to opinionated to remain in the RP forum; heck, I am too, but I have to restrain myself from going to the main parts of the forum (for various reasons). You really should go there, because no one, not even me, is willing to discuss something so unrelated to general roleplay, even if it's for the sake of genuine discussion. Such opinions aren't meant to be kept to oneself, especially being as controversial as they are.
September 20th, 2012 6:27 PMmachomuu
Hey, Ms. East Coast, it's 10 PM, you need to go to sleep soon; PC will be here tomorrow.
September 14th, 2012 6:28 PMPkMnTrainer Yellow
I've been thinking about that yes. I'm just... not sure who. Perhaps I should ask in the OOC.
September 14th, 2012 6:26 PMmachomuu
...In that case, I'd consider getting a Co-GM for Fallout. These Sandbox RPs take quite a bit of moderation and effort, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get someone else to help out with it.
September 14th, 2012 6:14 PMPkMnTrainer Yellow
Mmhm. I'm GMing a single RP off PC currently.
September 14th, 2012 3:36 PMmachomuu
Exactly, remember, you come first in all of this. Everything else should come second, if you don't take care of yourself...well, your essentially helping no one. That said, I don't think that you should take care of yourself simply for the sake of others, you have to set aside some love and care for the sake of pure self-respect. That segues into my next question, are you GMing any RPs other than those on PC?