Johto Region Champion
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19 Hours Ago 8:43 AMBettyNewbieQuote:
Well, in general, people always complain about the new Pokémon. It doesn't matter what their typing or design is like, one fan or another complains about all of them, and "those genw****rs" stereotypically complain about anything newer than Gen 2 as being trash just by nature of it existing. If anything, I wonder if the smaller amount of new Pokémon and the new forms added in an attempt to make Gen 1 Pokémon be talked about and used again were an ill-informed attempt to pander to "genw****rs" due to the 20th Anniversary. I don't know if it's true or not, but there is that quote that gets passed around as coming from Gamefreak claiming "If we made a game the way fans ask us to, it would suck. You want every region, but only the first 150 Pokémon" and other stuff like that. Can't say for sure, but those are my suspicions.
As far as I'm concerned, "Alola Forms" offend me FAR more than some ice cream or trash bag Pokémon ever did. If GF thinks that lobotomizing old Pokémon and morphing them into something they're not is the way to attract older fans, then they're sadly mistaken.
I can totally believe that Gamefreak aren't nearly as big of fans as players are when it comes to GSC. The games were originally meant to be the last in the franchise, and as such they were probably a bit lazy with them. As a parallel, some people seem to absolutely love my old Halloween Hack, but I have absolutely no idea why. It barely changed anything. It was something I slapped together one afternoon when I was bored. I'm ashamed that I even released it like that, so I don't really bring it up at all, and I get confused why some people seem to like it. Gamefreak might feel similarly about Gen 2 for the same reasons. Sure, there were a lot of engine updates, but it was still based on the Gen 1 engine pretty heavily, and it wasn't particularly original. It was just a sequel to the original game, with a half-empty version of the original region for you to return to. Trying to look at it objectively, I could see why they might be disappointed with it and not like being reminded of it, even though as a player, Johto is one of my favorite regions and I love going back to it every chance I get. While I haven't played it yet, seeing that Glazed had Johto in it was one of the main reasons I thought "well, maybe this will be worth checking out after all" and stuff.
And, while the franchise's post-Pokémania Dork Age is associated with Gen 3, it actually began midway through Gen 2 with the failure of the Johto anime. Although GS still sold very well (around 24 million copies), Crystal did not (around 6 million), so Gen 2 really was kind of a dark time for GF. If Masuda really had issues with GSC, the total collapse in sales and popularity that occurred midway through Gen 2 only confirmed his misgivings.
This is likely the real reason RS were a hard reboot rather than the GBC/GBA compatibility issues. Both Masuda and Nintendo wanted to wipe away the negativity associated with the late Gen 2 era and start fresh.
Notice how Gen 2 and Johto basically ceased to exist in Gen 3. Even FRLG had few-to-no references to Johto or Gen 2, let alone RSE, and the Gen 2 Pokémon themselves were extremely hard to obtain, mostly either stuffed into postgame areas (Safari Zone, Sevii Islands) or left to spinoff Gamecube games (Colosseum, XD).
Even in Gen 4, HGSS were relegated to the tail end of the generation and got quickly overshadowed by BW (which were announced before HGSS were even released outside of Japan), so the remakes barely had any time in the spotlight compared to ORAS and even FRLG. And, none of the games released since then have even touched Gen 2, opting for Gen 1 or Gen 3 nostalgia instead.
I'm a huge fan of GSC and Johto, myself, so GF's seeming dislike for the games is saddening. I think GSC's biggest problem was that they tried to do more than either GF or the hardware itself were capable of at the time, hence the clock/battery issues and half-empty Kanto. The games also had other, smaller issues like poor distribution of Gen 2 Pokémon, Johto Gym Leaders mostly using Gen 1 Pokémon, awful level curve, and disappointing E4.
However, the games' many positives still outweigh the negatives, and the negatives can be fixed in hacks.
As far as the nostalgia angle, you have some good points. Given how closely to one another they were released, pretty much all Gen 2 fans are also fans of Gen 1. I think I've met a few people who said they started with Crystal, but pretty much everyone started with Gen 1, Gen 3, Gen 4, etc. Just pandering to Gen 2 nostalgia probably doesn't work, like you say, since it probably alienates a few people who were around for Gen 1 but left. That said, if they left after Gen 1, what are they still being pandered to for?
The hard-reboot of Gen 3 always bothered me. I can understand that ok, from a technical standpoint, it wasn't feasible to allow backwards compatibility since the link cable works differently from a hardware standpoint if I remember correctly. That said, they could still have just like... let you use the Gamecube adapter to import Pokemon from Gen 1 and 2 into the Gen 3 version of Pokemon stadium, then imported them from that over to Gen 3. That shouldn't have been very hard. It might've even made me want to buy a Gamecube. (I technically have one that lives at my house, but it doesn't belong to me. It's a friend's Gamecube and their copy of Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II is the only disc for it, lol). Even though I liked Gen 3, I was still irked by the lack of features that were in Gen 2. The clock was practically unused and uncheckable, there was no Day/Night which made it more annoying to evolve Espeon and Umbreon (who were my favorite Eeveelutions at the time and still pretty much are), and other "minor" details like that. Then when ORAS came out, they continued the tradition by removing player customization and other things that were in XY. I've come to the conclusion that Gamefreak doesn't believe you can have Hoenn without removing at least one or two perfectly good features from the previous games for no reason.
Of course, had GF done this, then there wouldn't have been any need for FRLG or for Gen 3 being a hard reboot, in general, which (again) makes me think that it was a creative decison on GF's part. The hard reboot feeling and many removed features in both RSE and FRLG certainly frustrate me, as well, enough to probably sour me on the entire generation.
1 Day Ago 7:54 AMBettyNewbieQuote:
Thanks! Yeah, I was sitting here thinking about how I could go about implementing it when it occurred to me just how similar it could be done to the Pokedex. Then I realized that showing the trainer's location on the map would probably look nicer than just showing the area name as text, it could be done in about the same way. Then flavor text about the trainers would work the same as the Pokedex entries. The option for listening to their cry would then just be replaced with the option to call them (and of course tweak the UI a bit so it blends in with whatever I come up with for the Pokenav thing).
I will say, I thought it made perfect sense to give Exeggutor a new form in Alola. He is a tropical palm tree who has usually been in non-tropical climates, so it made sense to me for him to have a form that looked like a coconut palm in the environment it was suited to. I thought the Dragon typing was stupid, though. I feel like if anything, it should've been done like a Rotom form instead.
That said, you're definitely right that it was really lazy for them to give us new type combinations but do a half-assed job of using them. To quote Ron Swanson, "Don't half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing." Instead of trying to make up all these new forms and new Pokemon, they should've just focused on the actual new Pokemon and done a better job of it.
I get that Unova's large Pokédex wasn't exactly well-received, but the solution to that isn't to skimp on the new Pokémon and have 25% of the Regional Dex be "makeovers" of old Pokémon. That just comes off as lazy and desperate.
I've started to get the sense that GF isn't as fond of GSC as the fans are. Notice how throughout this 20th Anniversary celebration, as well as even the nostalgia pandering that happened back during XY, Gen 2 and its Pokémon have mostly been excluded.
It's one thing to give less attention to Gens 3 and later, but Gen 2 was just as much a part of the Pokémania Era as Gen 1. Most of the same people who grew up with RBY also grew up with GSC and are equally nostalgic for both games. So, why has the nostalgia pandering been 100% Gen 1? Heck, it seems that even Gen 3 gets more attention than Gen 2 does, as was especially the case in Gen 6.
Then, I realize that I probably just answered my own question--"Most of the same people who grew up with RBY also grew up with GSC." By virtue of being sequels, GSC fans ARE pretty much the same group of people as RBY fans, so from a marketing standpoint, it doesn't make as much sense to focus on Gen 2. GSC only bring in a slightly lower number of the same fans as RBY, so you get more bang for your buck with RBY nostalgia. And, even RSE nostalgia has the advantage of bringing in a different, younger generation of fans. Gen 2 nostalgia lacks a niche compared to Gens 1 and 3.
GF's own biases may be a factor, too. While he's never said anything, there's fairly good evidence that Masuda actually dislikes GSC. Notice how the very first games he directed (RS) seemed to go out of their way to do the opposite of everything GSC did:
- One standalone region (Hoenn) instead of two connected regions (Johto/Kanto)
- Brand new story featuring a brand new cast instead of a direct continuation from the previous games
- Legendaries that play an active role in the main plot instead of sitting around waiting to be caught
- New Pokémon that are designed more to replace the old ones rather than complement them
- Friendly, happy rival (Brendan/May) instead of an angry, belligerent one (Silver)
And, all of the main games released since then have followed the same general template first established in RS, which only makes GSC stick out like a sore thumb compared to the other gens. If Masuda really hates GSC that much, he has certainly done a good job of minimizing their legacy and impact on the franchise.
For GSC fans like us, it's a tough pill to swallow, but it seems to be the hard reality. Maybe, one day, Gen 2 will finally get its time in the spotlight, but in the meantime, it will forever remain ignored and overshadowed compared to Gens 1 and 3.
3 Days Ago 9:39 PMBettyNewbieQuote:
Trying to! In fact, the Trainer's Eyes could function similar to the Pokédex come to think of it. Scroll through a list of names, choose one, and you can see their: location, info, rematch status, etc. It would be different options of course but it would be intuitive to use, and probably easier to code since I'd have a reference.
Exactly. Even if they look cool sometimes, those are pretty much always lazy when fan games do them, but at least they are somewhat excusable there. It's often easier to just recolor and slightly edit an existing sprite than it is to make a new one, so it usually looks more consistent if they do that when they can't sprite new ones. But in Gamefreak's case, there really is no excuse to do that and treat them like new Pokémon. In a way, it's not too different from Pokémon like Rotom that have forms with different typings and skill sets and whatnot, but since you can't swap back and forth, these aren't really the same thing at all.
I hate that the first Ice/Fairy and Ice/Steel Pokémon are both cheap recolors of old Pokémon and not new ones. Or, that the only two Grass/Dragon Pokémon are a Mega Evolution and Exeggutor with a stretched-out neck. Too many unique, interesting type combos are being wasted on "makeovers" of old Pokémon.
3 Days Ago 10:29 AMBettyNewbieQuote:
That kid looks like a Digimon trainer who thinks he's a badass and wants to be Lance, but really needs to have his ego taken down a peg or two. I guess I don't see the Rowdyruff Boy influence much, though. Probably because its so different from PPG art style (and I knew who they were even without the link :p) but idk. Either way, he still looks like a chump for sure. That's no way to depict one of the most elite trainers in the Kanto region.
I'm imagining a scene where game/anime Lance encounters this creature, takes one look at him, and falls to the floor laughing, while his short little ass angrily stomps around proclaiming that he's the "World's Greatest Dragon Master." The real Lance, then, sends Dragonite out and sweeps his entire team, causing the Adventures creature to throw a hissy fit like the little kid he is.
Yeah, it'd hold more than 10 numbers. I figure I'd make sure it could hold as many numbers as I planned on making available. And instead of doing it the Gen 2 way where it took a whole byte to store each phone number ID, I'd probably try to just do it as a flag array of registered numbers, so 1 bit per registered number instead of 1 byte, meaning the same amount of space it took to store 10 numbers in GSC would hold like 80. That's what I was planning to do with the TM Case too, for the same reason (making everything available while saving space in memory).
I'm not gonna lie, I don't like absolutely hate Gen 7 or anything. It isn't really Dark Rising levels of wrongness from what I can tell. But it is very "meh" to me. It just doesn't feel right, so I don't really care about it. I don't think it was the way to go as we've already made clear, and I hope it does poorly enough that they decide to go back to the old formula, but at least a few things seem ok. Alola Vulpix/Ninetails are cool *rimshot* Jokes aside though, yeah, a lot of the changes seem really dumb and out of place.
Think about it, if this feature had been applied to past gens, we would've simply gotten "Johto Growlithe" instead of Houndour, "Unova Ursaring" instead of Beartic, and "Kalos Pidgeot" instead of Talonflame. Over half the Hoenn and Unova Pokédexes would cease to exist!
You can't just take a completely different Pokémon with a completely different type/movepool/stats and slap the name "Ninetales" or "Marowak" on it. These Pokémon's' original typings were not given to them out of random, and you can't completely change them into something they aren't and still expect us to see them as the same Pokémon.
And, it smacks of laziness, too. Was GF really that out of ideas that they had to resort to recoloring Sandslash instead of making a new Ice/Steel Pokémon? People have been accusing GF of being "out of ideas" for several years now, and these "Alola Forms" don't exactly help their case.
And, after learning that there are fewer than 80 new Pokémon (yet again), it's pretty clear that these "Alola Forms" ARE taking up slots that could've gone to new Pokémon instead. In fact, I also read that Alola's Regional Dex actually contains more Gen 1 Pokémon than it does new Pokémon!
Really, everything about Gen 7 smacks of laziness and poor decisions. Even the Alola region itself just feels like a rewarmed Orange Islands or Hoenn, even with the "Island Trials" and all that stuff. Extremely boring for a so-called "20th Anniversary" release.
5 Days Ago 9:53 PMBettyNewbieQuote:
Yep, exactly. It makes some people give you a pity party and others get pissed at you, neither of which are actually what you want in that situation. smh. It's sad, really. Not for the reasons he wants it to be, but just that people are like that.
For whatever reason, I was reminded of that scene in The Sound of Music when one character says "We're all Austrian." and another replies, "Some think we ought to be German, and they're very mad at those who don't." Just replace the word "Austrian" with "Pokemon stories" and "German" with "Game Canon". Yes, I guess that does mean I'm comparing Adventures fanboys to Nazis. Oops.
As if I needed more reasons to hate Adventures, even the art style really annoys me. Everyone seems to have this short, bug-eyed look, and many characters don't even resemble their game appearances (so much for that rag being "canon," LOL).
If anime Lance seemed too young-looking to you, then that creature calling himself "Lance" in Adventures must look WAY too young:
Is that Lance or an emo Rowdyruff Boy wearing a cape? Seriously, he looks like a damn 13-14 year old!
(What I would give to see game or anime Lance kick that impostor's ass and how him what a real Dragon Master looks like...)
Yep, I figured I would let you register leaders that way, too. The Trainer's Eyes let you store them, but you had to rematch them differently if I remember. I'd just let that work the same way as normal trainers do. I would also extend that to special trainers, such as: Flannery, Janine, Tracey, etc.
Also, thought this thread and my response might amuse you: https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonROMhacks/comments/580v9c/is_anyone_more_excited_for_a_rom_hack_than_sun/
At this point, I've come to accept that Gen 7 doesn't offer a single thing I'm interested in. I don't really like any of the new Pokémon, and I outright despise the concept of "Alola Forms." And, the Alola region itself is just a rewarmed Orange Islands/Hoenn except with what will likely be a really awful story.
I also kind of hate this "Z Move" stuff, if only because it's revealed Mega Evolution to be nothing more than a cheap, one-time gimmick rather than something GF genuinely wanted to be a part of the franchise. Since so much of Gen 6 revolved around Megas, all it does is make the gen look like a waste of time in retrospect. It also makes it far harder to get excited over "Z Moves," since GF will likely dump them in the same way once Gen 8 rolls around.
With Gen 7, the main series games have completely lost me. Hacks are where it's at, and luckily there are several great ones in development. And, they actually feel like Pokémon games, unlike Sun/Moon.
5 Days Ago 6:44 PMBettyNewbieQuote:
Yeah, he really needed to get a grip. At the very start of the post, I was thinking "Ok, I feel you there. I do the same thing. I watch LPs and stuff, interact with people, find out what is working and what isn't, see what players actually want, and try to improve my hacks that way". But then it took a nosedive off the deep end, and my sense of relating to him went out the window. When I've had comments on my own videos that are obviously trolling, I just delete them and move on with my life. And I've never really gotten them on other people's videos, but I would behave myself better than he did. Like you say, even if the illness and death are real, they aren't an excuse to lash out at people on the internet. Excuses for disappearing or a lack of updates? Absolutely. An excuse for being a tool? Negatory, Ghost Rider. I know I've made some small outbursts from time to time over the years when I was stressed and frustrated, which I then genuinely felt bad about and apologized. But I can't understand how people like him go about the way they do. But there are several hackers like him around. They can't seem to take even very softly worded constructive criticism without having a fit.
I don't doubt that he's probably a very lonely person in RL, but this isn't the way to get attention and make friends.
Adventures fans are so annoying. I was on Facebook earlier looking at this post showing the stuff you'd need to cosplay Hilda for Halloween, and of course people in the comments are all "Actually, her name is Black, get it right" or "She's REALLY called Black, read the Manga" and I didn't waste my time commenting, but all I could think was "Ugg, get a grip people. What is your life about right now?"
Just the fact that they constantly call their favorite rag "The Manga," as if it's the one and only official Pokémon manga and not just one out of a zillion, annoys me to death.
And, no, Adventures isn't game canon, either. Like, nowhere close to it. Red doesn't own a Poliwhirl, Sabrina isn't a Team Rocket member, and Lance isn't some bloodthirsty emo villain. Stop trying to pretend that this crappy, wannabe edgy fanfic has anything to do with the universe of the games.
I feel like maybe a combination of the two could be useful. Like, you see rematches like the Trainer's Eyes. Go into the menu, and the names will have a ! next to them if they want a rematch, and clicking a name will let you see where the trainer is and stuff. It might even have options like, "Info" "Call" "Delete" or something. That way you could remove names, call them if that was somehow relevant or you were bored, or just see their info to remember where they were.
6 Days Ago 4:38 PMBettyNewbieDug up another whining wall of text from Aethestode:
Well today was depressing. Many of you probably don't know this, but I occasionally watch video uploads of my hack's play-through. I don't do it because I'm that self-absorbed, I do it so I can see people's opinions, and also to see them pointing out the problems/mistakes in the game (e.g. grammar, the part they don't like, etc). That way, I can fix the problems in my future updates. In most videos, it's fine. People pointing out the mistake, I'll go and fix it. But today, I've watched several videos from one uploader, and it was pretty upsetting. It took me by surprise because I've been following his videos in the past, and it's not really his fault, I guess.
Anyway, so basically the video was complaining about the grammar. Okay, I'm okay with that. I just went back to the hack, and start fixing the grammar and punctuation there. Then I decided to read the comments. I don't know, I guess I was kinda prepared for it, but no matter how prepared I am, the comments really made me angry at first, then it made sad. Then it made me cry as I read on. The comments are filled with insults at my grammar and punctuation.
* This creator is ****ing stupid.
* Someone should ship his ass back to China.
* If the creator took a dip in a lake, he'll turn it into an ocean.
* Aethestode's friend probs killed himself (herself btw) because he couldn't handle his Engrish anymore.
* Is Aethestode's parents mentally retarded? (parents died when I was 5 and was raised by my aunt, so I wouldn't know)
Okay, I admit it. I'm not good with English. However, I've never said I was good at it. I never denied that my English sucks either. In fact, I've always acknowledged it. That's why when people points out my grammar/spelling mistakes, I'll go and fix them. However, calling me stupid/retarded or saying stuffs like "shipping me back to China" or poking fun at my dead friend is really over the line (Note: To the person who called me stupid. Least I'm smart enough to make a hack, graduate from university, get a job as an engineer and have a house. Using nothing but my own money). Then seeing people replying to that comment, agreeing and laughing hurts a lot more. Another thing is, it's a lot easier to read other people's text and point out grammar, spelling and punctuation mistakes. It's a lot harder to proofread your own work because your mind subconsciously skips the errors. Therefore, when you see spelling mistakes and stuff, that doesn't mean I didn't proof read my work.
Then there's people in the comment section who is painting me like I'm some sort of demon who lashes out at people when they suggest something. However, that's not true. I may lash out at people when they suggest something while acting entitled, but I've always taken people suggestion in consideration. For example, I've took the judge's opinion by fixing up the game's graphic and stuffs. When people point out grammar mistakes in my screenshots, I go and fix it. When people ask for certain megas (e.g. Machamp, Johto starters, etc), I go and add them.
I don't know, I guess it's just depressing that you try so hard to do something... You used two years of your life, working on a project (not getting paid at all), risk damaging your health, etc, trying to make people happy, only to have them painting you as a bad person who only cares about himself. It's just really depressing. People who were with me from the beginning would know that in these two years that there's been a lot of problems in my life, but I've simply brushed through them trying to complete the hack. E.g.
* Friend dying
* juggling 3 jobs and university
* Trying to pay the mortgage
* Broken arm.
* Breaking up with my partner.
* Getting pneumonia and actually got admitted to the hospital.
* Dog nearly dying from two collapsed Larynges.
Anyway, yeah. Just want to express my feelings.
Dude really needed to get a grip. Even if he really did get sick and all of that, you can tell that he was exaggerating and bullmukting a lot of it just to make people feel sorry for him. I automatically lose respect for anyone who tries to use an illness or death (real or not) as an excuse to get away with bad behavior.
And, while YouTube comments sections have a reputation, what do you wanna bet that a lot of the "bashing" there was really just valid criticism of his poorly-made hack? I mean, what do you think people are going to say when you throw together a crappy game and try to pass it off as good? Aethestode really needed to learn how to listen to criticism and not take everything so personally.
Adventures fanboys tried to claim HOTY was rigged if I remember. "This only won because it's by Spherical Ice, Adventure Red: Red Chapter CLEARLY should be HOTY" and stuff like that. Smh.
If HOTY is "rigged," it's clearly working in Adventure Red's favor, not the other way around.
Having it function like the VS Seeker would probably be too much of a pain, what with all the jumping sprites and everyone getting some sort of speech bubble over their heads. Not sure the GBC would actually handle that many sprites on screen at once in some of the more densely packed routes. It would probably function more like the "Trainer's Eyes" part of the Pokénav from RSE. It would have a list of trainers that could be rematched, would give info about them, and would alert you when they wanted one. And unlike RSE, it would let you rematch Gym Leaders instead of just giving info on them. I'm already thinking the cameo trainers like Flannery and Janine and Tracey and whatnot will end up with rematches.
1 Week Ago 9:38 PMBettyNewbieQuote:
When he posted that on Reddit, I almost replied "Good, don't let the door hit you on the way out." but I decided not to be an asshole, since I feel the need to be at least semi-professional these days. If he'd posted that when I was in like, I don't know, high school, I probably would've gone for it. But since I'm one of the few old members left in the community, I'd just be confirming his and others' claims about "elitism" and whatnot. Plus, I'd look like a jerk and possibly push away people who might otherwise be interested in my hacks, lol.
On the My Immortal comment, can't say I ever read that (Although I'm familiar with the Evanescence song of the same name), but I know her type. I'm pretty sure my fanfics from highschool were more coherently written than THAT. xD
Of course, it makes total sense when you realize that hacks like Adventure Red are basically the video game equivalent of fanfics like My Immortal, the painful, cringeworthy creations of lonely teenagers with access to a computer and too much time on their hands.
Yeah, I know I'm at odds with the majority on that. Some people will only play hacks with ugly Gen 4 rips, but those are one of my huge pet peeves, and an almost instant thread-closer. The fact that Gaia won HOTY gave me hope for Sterling Silver. Both use a mixture of vanilla Gen 3 tiles and custom-but-Gen-3-style tiles, and both focus on exploration and the lore of the region, along with Archaeology (and SS was always going to be that way). While the story, region, etc are all different enough that nobody can call it a Ripoff (and Spherical Ice loves the idea), I feel like there is just enough similarity that when it comes out, people might end up being like "So I played Gaia, what should I play next?" and people tell them "Try Sterling Silver: Cry of Celebi by Mateo and Pyro. It's got some similarities but its still a totally new game." or whatever. That's still a long way off, though :p
Speaking of rematches and things that were in from the start, I'm not sure what I should do in terms of rematching generic trainers. I want to include the functionality, since there will be a Pokégear clone. However, I know that phone calls were pretty annoying with the way Gen 2 handled them. Part of me wants to like... only include phone calls for things like rematches, without the random "Oh hi Nicole, it's Joey! My Rattata is doing sooo great! I fought a tough Pidgey today. See ya!" or whatever. My other idea is to like... have a VS Seeker option in the Pokegear, and it would just show an ! point next to a trainer's name if they were able to be rematched, and make it so clicking their name showed their trainer sprite and a little blurb about the trainer and where they are. What are your thoughts on that?
- About Mateo
- Hey guys, I'm Mateo. I was the co-founder of the Skeetendo Inc. Hacking Group (before it was a community, when it was just me and Pyro). I'm still a huge fan of Gen II, and so I still enjoy playing and hacking those games. I'm currently working on a "Johto Legacy" series that continues the story of G/S/C that consists of the "Pokémon Christmas" hack, and an upcoming prequel called "Pokémon Spirits and Legends" (that currently has no thread here).
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