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Showing Visitor Messages 76 to 90 of 99
  1. weedle_mchairybug
    September 27th, 2008 04:13 PM
    weedle_mchairybug
    "You really don't get out enough if you think Pikachu and Robin are the only meaningful sidekicks. How about Porky Pig, who is often more rational and reasonable than the impulsive, greedy Daffy Duck? And Sancho Panza to Don Quixote, a historical example of a sidekick smarter than the protagonist? Heck, even Luigi has several moments where he does heroic things, especially in his very own game. I like sidekick characters, and the way you stereotype them is very narrow-minded and degrading."

    Don't think I like stereotyping them as such. I personally hate that as well, but the fact is, it what happens. As for Luigi, yes he did end up having heroic things. Unfortunately, while it is good that he actually does heroic things in some way or another, it still outweighed by the fact that he acts like a coward. when I said "meaningful", I mean the majority of the time (not that I like that philosophy, but still).

    Also, in regards to Porky Pig and Daffy Duck, I've seen him either giving the famous "That's all folks" (or, in the loony toons movie, "Go Home, Folks"), or doing narrations of obviously exaggerated historical accounts (like the transportation thing, Wett, Washington.). I don't think I've seen an episode where he hangs out with Daffy Duck. In fact, most of the shorts in Loony Tunes/Merry Melodies franchise have Daffy Duck co-starring with Bugs Bunny (though mostly as either the antagonist or as the fall guy to Elmer Fudd.). As for Sancho Panza and Don Quixote, I've never really heard of them other than what you've mentioned of them.

    "I might point out that Blaziken has a type advantage to Sceptile, for one thing, but since you're nitpicking by going through every dang case, I don't even want to bother counteracting every single one of them. Secondly, the bizarre outcomes of the matches result from the writers having a predetermined victory/loss for the character, regardless of the circumstances. It is obvious that by letting Misty win over Ash, they were merely throwing a bone to her. Yes, they blatantly threw a bone to Dawn by letting her win over May as well, but all the other cases of "unfair" wins do not invalidate one case. Also, I thought you hated Cybercubed. Why would you use his words in an argument?"

    In regards to your first point, the type advantage isn't solid since there have been countless cases where the writers ignored the whole "Type advantage" rule was thrown out of the window. I mean, Pikachu was able to defeat Geodude and damage Onix significantly with electric attacks, even though Ground Types shouldn't be beaten by electric attacks (Yes, Onix and Geodude are both ground type. And yes, Pikachu was supercharged at the time, but still.), The entirety of "The School of Hard Knocks" had to do with a pokemon beating another that is superior in typing (eg, Misty's Starmie defeating Weepinbell despite the latter being at a type advantage) among others. So please don't try to say that she was able to match Ash just by Type advantage, since that just won't work, especially since Sceptile still had more experience than a recently evolved Blaziken. It was obvious that they were throwing the bone to May, even WITH the tie.

    I do hate Cybercubed for reasons similar to how you think Misty fans pick on your May fans. I'm only quoting him (and it's not even him as much as several fans with like minds) because that's what they said. I don't care too much for what they say, but whether I care or not doesn't matter, since it still counts.

    It may not excuse her case, but it doesn't mean Misty is the sole guilty member.

    "Dang my memory. I don't recall saying Misty was stale in Johto, but, at the risk of prolonging this mudslinging, I will say that I always regarded Misty as having little potential for development. Since she specializes in Water-types, that greatly limits her roster and activities she can participate in. I felt that the many events conveniently placed for Misty in Johto were the writers' attempts to "develop" her skills, but it just comes off as contrived."

    You did refer to her as being a cheerleader, not supposed to follow ash along, among other things, the same people who say these things ALSO say she was stale in johto, so even IF you didn't say that, considering what I've witnessed in regards to May vs. Misty arguements, it's probably what you meant.

    "You do not get the scientific method, do you? The hypothesis is put in place to have some guideline for analyzing the results. The conclusion is meant to either confirm or deny the hypothesis. Some people just get too religious over the hypothesis and thus ignore the conclusion if it denies the hypothesis, like creationists who are so determined to defeat evolution that they will deny any evidence pointing towards it and against their position."

    Oh, believe me, I reached that conclusion by PURE RESEARCH, via something I'm embarrased to admit (Don't ask, since I don't want to talk about it.).

    "The romance thing was not what I was referring to concerning CLAMP. Okay, if I have to be explicit, several of their mangas have "fanservice" moments, such as the titular character of Cardcaptor Sakura being dressed in various loli outfits and Chi from Chobits being used for some rather, er, dodgy moments. I was wondering if that made the CLAMP writers gender traitors to you, considering you seem to think that you are more feminist than women."

    You mentioned liking romance and having them being girly in an earlier post in regards to how CLAMP portrays women. Anyways, yeah, while I'm more tolerant of them, I would consider them "gender traitors"

    "And the reason why I brought up Miyazaki? Do his movies have "female anime stereotypes" or anything similarly offensive to you?"

    I don't really watch much of his movies, but I did see one of them. "Kiki's Delivery Service", I believe. and, yes, there was at least one female anime stereotype in that movie (it was the addressee for Kiki's delivery service who had ordered something and gave a very rude comment when she got what she wanted. She also reappeared with some friends with Kiki's growing love interest. You'll know who I'm talking about. She's the ginger-head with a Valley-girl accent.).
  2. PorygonSquared
    September 27th, 2008 02:33 PM
    PorygonSquared
    You really don't get out enough if you think Pikachu and Robin are the only meaningful sidekicks. How about Porky Pig, who is often more rational and reasonable than the impulsive, greedy Daffy Duck? And Sancho Panza to Don Quixote, a historical example of a sidekick smarter than the protagonist? Heck, even Luigi has several moments where he does heroic things, especially in his very own game. I like sidekick characters, and the way you stereotype them is very narrow-minded and degrading.

    I might point out that Blaziken has a type advantage to Sceptile, for one thing, but since you're nitpicking by going through every dang case, I don't even want to bother counteracting every single one of them. Secondly, the bizarre outcomes of the matches result from the writers having a predetermined victory/loss for the character, regardless of the circumstances. It is obvious that by letting Misty win over Ash, they were merely throwing a bone to her. Yes, they blatantly threw a bone to Dawn by letting her win over May as well, but all the other cases of "unfair" wins do not invalidate one case. Also, I thought you hated Cybercubed. Why would you use his words in an argument?

    Dang my memory. I don't recall saying Misty was stale in Johto, but, at the risk of prolonging this mudslinging, I will say that I always regarded Misty as having little potential for development. Since she specializes in Water-types, that greatly limits her roster and activities she can participate in. I felt that the many events conveniently placed for Misty in Johto were the writers' attempts to "develop" her skills, but it just comes off as contrived.

    You do not get the scientific method, do you? The hypothesis is put in place to have some guideline for analyzing the results. The conclusion is meant to either confirm or deny the hypothesis. Some people just get too religious over the hypothesis and thus ignore the conclusion if it denies the hypothesis, like creationists who are so determined to defeat evolution that they will deny any evidence pointing towards it and against their position.

    The romance thing was not what I was referring to concerning CLAMP. Okay, if I have to be explicit, several of their mangas have "fanservice" moments, such as the titular character of Cardcaptor Sakura being dressed in various loli outfits and Chi from Chobits being used for some rather, er, dodgy moments. I was wondering if that made the CLAMP writers gender traitors to you, considering you seem to think that you are more feminist than women.

    And the reason why I brought up Miyazaki? Do his movies have "female anime stereotypes" or anything similarly offensive to you?
  3. weedle_mchairybug
    September 27th, 2008 06:19 AM
    weedle_mchairybug
    He's the guy who made Spirited away, and he's the man who founded Studio Ghibli.

    So, please try and counteract my counter arguements.
  4. PorygonSquared
    September 27th, 2008 06:11 AM
    PorygonSquared
    I ask again, do you know who Hayao Miyazaki is?
  5. weedle_mchairybug
    September 27th, 2008 04:40 AM
    weedle_mchairybug
    "I find it amusing that you regard "sidekick" as negative. In shows that I've watched, the sidekick tends to be the brains to the main character's brawn and even has heroic moments where the main protagonist fails. Sidekicks, written right, can serve many meaningful roles to the protagonist."

    After seeing how they portrayed Luigi, Flounder, Tails, Krillin, and other sidekicks, how can I NOT view it as negative. Yes, if written right, they can be considered meaningful, but the only ACTUAL sidekicks to do this are Pikachu and Robin (for the record, Misty, Brock, and event Tracey and Max don't count as sidekicks. even Charaxes said this, and that the only person (or rather, thing) that will count as an ACTUAL Sidekick is Pikachu.)

    "Wow, I get the impression you hate everything in the anime not pertaining to Misty. That's a sure sign of Fan Dumb (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb) if you ask me, and I suggest you watch a more "realistic" anime if you feel the need to nitpick every dang flaw in this one. "

    I don't hate everything in regards to the anime. Heck I thought that Ash's wins were neat. I also enjoyed that sometimes the badge can be earned through helping someone than just beating the character. Heck, I liked some of the Kanto episodes. Heck, I'll even admit that Zoey and the Twinleaf Contest episodes were all right as well, as well as Roarks battles. So, really, I don't HATE everything about the anime. but that does NOT mean I should act like Misty was the only person who used Deus ex Machina (which i'll get to later), nor does it mean I should view the anime as flawless.

    You constantly point out all the continuity errors, but I regard Misty's win over Ash as poor writing because Ash knows about Psyduck's headaches. He also defeated Psyduck effectively in "Who Gets to Keep Togepi", so Misty's win this time seemed like a cop-out by the writers."

    It's not like May's wins weren't copouts, either. I mean, let's see, Half of her Squirtle's wins didn't make any sort of sense at all. Eevee's victory against Marshtomp was just downright terrible writing (I don't CARE if it was Marshtomp's first contest, Eevee was still inexperienced at the time [I mean, for goodness sakes, it was nothing more than a baby at the time!]!), her tie against Ash shouldn't have happened (heck, she pulls a deus ex machina on Ash by having her Combusken just SUDDENLY evolve into Blaziken and SOMEHOW manage to tie against Ash's more experienced Sceptile [that's not a realistic scenario. I mean, most evolved pokemon don't suddenly match their rivals just by evolving alone. Besides, it's deus ex machina and one of the reasons why people don't want Ash's pokemon to evolve during a Gym Match.].). Dawn's win against May was ALSO Deus Ex Machina. Oh, and not to mention, even ASH's Win against some of the Gym Leaders (mainly Kanto, but there have been others) have been labeled as a "copout", or Deus Ex Machina. For example, Ash's win against Blaine was luck since apparantly Charizard was immune to the corroding effects of Lava. I mean, other than the things involving good humanitarian/poketarian efforts in Kanto, His win against Pryce was considered by Cybercubed to be terrible since Pryce threw in the towel, his win against whitney was also viewed in a negative light, since he used three against one against her. Hoenn had him keeping the badge against Wattson despite technically cheating against him (though some people argued that Wattson cheated as well, since they had the robotic raikou and all), and the Mossdeep win was unforgivable as well, since that had the infamous "Thunder Armor" technique as well. His win against Anabel was considered to be a poor win as well, as he recalled the Pokemon and let it out, thus technically cheating. Sinnoh, the Maylene win was a copout as well (I mean, they tied, and yet Ash got the badge anyways?), the Crasher Wake battle, see the Anabel win (he recalled them and used them again, which technically counts as cheating as well.)

    "He didn't have an actual Pokemon, and letting Max travel with Ash just shows how much Norman trusts him."

    You know, if I were him, then trust him or not, I'd make absolutely sure he is trustworthy. For all I know, Ash could have been some sort of nasty bully who picks on Max.

    "People are used to seeing Ash. If they changed him, the new orientation would throw a lot of people off. In Pokemon Special, people were used to the changes already."

    Yeah, well, people are saying that Ash is stale, and since people felt Misty was stale in Johto (yes, even you), I think it's only fair that Ash goes away as well.

    "The anime convention is second-hand knowledge. You are just using the creationist method of having your conclusion and finding evidence to support it disregarding any against it when you should be using the scientific method of gathering evidence and deriving a conclusion from it (how many times have I brought up the scientific method now?). Anyways, I'll try again. Do you know who Hayao Miyazaki is?"

    what the? I thought that's EXACTLY what the Scientific method was part of stating your conclusion (ie, Hypothesis) and researching it to come up with the true conclusion.

    Also, I DID research on this long before May came onto it, to see what My mom said was true, and it was.)

    "For the record, CLAMP is an all-female manga group. Their stories have a cult following of both males and females for their narratives. Personally, I think you will be shocked if you read their works, because it might break some of your convictions concerning how girls should act, but the fact that the writers are all female should attract your attention."

    What, you think that, just because I want to promote female rights, I HATE it if Females like romance or act girly?! No! That's not the case at ALL! Sheesh, talk about someone who thinks I'm stereotyping females! I wouldn't mind it if they wanted that! Sigh... You know... to use a non animated example... "Two and a Half Men"... RIGHT?! You know how they portray almost every female in a negative light (as in, the vast majority of them [esp. Kandi, the second ex of Alan Harper] are complete and utter airheads, and only one case had it to the exact opposite extreme where the first ex of Alan Harper was a complete and total brat [sorry, couldn't use the synonym for female dog], though she still seems to be an airhead considering how many guys she goes out with and even used Alan's Alemony payment before her second marriage to pay for a Boob Job.), You know how THEY act (if you've seen the show, I mean)?! Well, that's the exact thing I and my family objected to! (I never liked the show, anyways, neither did my family, though we do sometimes see it, just for laughs (though I don't laugh). So next time you accuse me of thinking I don't want Females to like romance (that is, ACTUAL romance, not the hooker kind) or being girly, be absolutely sure to read this again.
  6. PorygonSquared
    September 26th, 2008 08:45 PM
    PorygonSquared
    I find it amusing that you regard "sidekick" as negative. In shows that I've watched, the sidekick tends to be the brains to the main character's brawn and even has heroic moments where the main protagonist fails. Sidekicks, written right, can serve many meaningful roles to the protagonist.

    Wow, I get the impression you hate everything in the anime not pertaining to Misty. That's a sure sign of Fan Dumb (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb) if you ask me, and I suggest you watch a more "realistic" anime if you feel the need to nitpick every dang flaw in this one.

    You constantly point out all the continuity errors, but I regard Misty's win over Ash as poor writing because Ash knows about Psyduck's headaches. He also defeated Psyduck effectively in "Who Gets to Keep Togepi", so Misty's win this time seemed like a cop-out by the writers.

    "Considering how he broke league rules and allowed his underaged son to go with a group of kids of whom only one of which he knows a lot about, It wouldn't have mattered anyways."

    He didn't have an actual Pokemon, and letting Max travel with Ash just shows how much Norman trusts him.

    People are used to seeing Ash. If they changed him, the new orientation would throw a lot of people off. In Pokemon Special, people were used to the changes already.

    The anime convention is second-hand knowledge. You are just using the creationist method of having your conclusion and finding evidence to support it disregarding any against it when you should be using the scientific method of gathering evidence and deriving a conclusion from it (how many times have I brought up the scientific method now?). Anyways, I'll try again. Do you know who Hayao Miyazaki is?

    For the record, CLAMP is an all-female manga group. Their stories have a cult following of both males and females for their narratives. Personally, I think you will be shocked if you read their works, because it might break some of your convictions concerning how girls should act, but the fact that the writers are all female should attract your attention.

    "Besides, Just because someone (even a girl) thinks that that's how girls should act doesn't mean that this IS how girls should act."

    I love this quote. You don't mind if I, er, borrow it without permission, do you? Teehee, thanks!

    Love,
    PorygonSquared
  7. weedle_mchairybug
    September 20th, 2008 03:27 PM
    weedle_mchairybug
    "Thank Jimmy Wales for Wikipedia.

    From the Sidekick article:

    "Hero Sidekicks not only provide comic relief but can occasionally be brave or resourceful at times and rescue the hero from some dire fate: such as Streaky the Supercat of Krypto the Superdog or Festus Haggen of Gunsmoke's Matt Dillon or even Paul Reiser to Helen Hunt from Mad About You."

    Well, your definition of "sidekick" has officially been shot down and your ignorance of the history of sidekicks has been exposed."

    Even still, I researched Sidekicks on TV Tropes for those that could fit Misty depending on the viewpoint, and, guess what, I DIDN'T FIND A SINGLE ONE LISTING MISTY ON THERE. want to know what that means? it means that Misty wasn't a sidekick.

    "Let me run through Misty's victories over Ash:

    The Alto Mare Canal Race: Misty only won because Latias pulled Ash away at a crucial time. In other words, got lucky.
    The Whirl Cup: Misty only won because of Psyduck. A pretty poor demonstration of battle skills and writing, if you ask me."

    If you're claiming luck demonstrates poor skill, then May and Ash were a very bad Coordinator and Trainer, respectively. Heck, most, if not ALL of May's wins seemed to be nothing more than pure luck and cheap wins. Ash's win against Blaine/Lt. Surge demonstrates how poor of a trainer he was (the only reason he won against Blaine was because of Charizard apparantly being immune to the corroding effects of Lava, and he only won against LT. Surge because Pikachu grounded the attack, and technically, he was out of the ring, so he technically cheated against Surge.). Heck, his win against Roxanne was based off of Luck as well (I mean, Hyper beam just so "Happens" to recharge Pikachu (Yes, contrary to what the dub said, it was actually Hyper beam that Nosepass used against Pikachu, not thunderwave or Zap cannon), and Ash just so happens to realize at the last minute that Pikachu must take it head on... that's not strategy, that's luck. Thunder Armor? LUCK! almost all of Ash's wins involved some sort of "luck". Heck, the win against Wattson also had luck before the match even started (Ash's Pikachu was supercharged by that Robo-Raikou, remember.).). Ash's win against Brandon was Luck (he only won because Regice decided to fall asleep at an inoppurtune time).

    Seriously, Luck doesn't really mean she has poor skills.

    "Since you don't play the games, you are one to talk about gym battles, which are the central portion of the games' main plot. And Orange and Hoenn Double Battles may be structured differently, so you can't fault Ash there."

    Actually, I DO Play the games (I played Pokemon Red and Blue (Became champion in it as well), Yellow, Gold, Silver, Ruby (Champ), Sapphire, FR (Champ), LG (though briefly before it got corrupted), Emerald (champ), and Diamond. However, people are under the mindset that if it's not mentioned anywhere else, and is also openly contradicted, it's not part of the plot (which also explains why most people seem to be at odds with the Movies being canon [I may personally not believe it, but it still the way it is.]. Besides, does that make any difference? As far as I'm concerned, it's a continuity error. Heck, Brock shouldn't remember Ash's Lapras, or know about how Ash's Journey in Hoenn went before he met up with him. And anyways, that doesn't explain the issue with Primeape.

    "Did Togepi do anything besides random deus ex machinas which never built up to anything?"

    Did Manaphy do anything other than being kidnapped by Phantom twice and leading them to the sea temple (which even then, they could have just as easily built some sort of scanner similar to the Dragon Radar to locate Samiya, since the Crystals gave out a glow, and possibly had some level of radiation.?

    "She's the daughter of a respected Gym Leader. How would it feel if she didn't live up to his epic reputation?"

    Considering how he broke league rules and allowed his underaged son to go with a group of kids of whom only one of which he knows a lot about, It wouldn't have mattered anyways.

    "They needed someone to promote D/P, and May, being from Advanced, didn't cut it. Ash and Pikachu are practically the faces of the anime."

    Faces? noo... not really. they tried "Legend of thunder" as well, and they did Pokemon Chronicles. Besides, Red was the face of "Pokemon Special", and despite that, he still got replaced.

    "Lola wasn't important until they brought up Brock's backstory again."

    Even still, they brought her up again, which only proves my point that time isn't always the determining factor to something to appear or reappear.

    "The battling came as a sudden add-on. That's not implied co-integration."

    all right, it was an explicit co-integration, but still.

    "Exactly. You've never heard of CLAMP. This just shows how utterly ignorant your "Misty is one of the few girls who is not of the female anime stereotype in all of anime" is. Watch more anime before making such an idiotic statement."

    I went to an Anime convention today (AWA, to be specific), and I went to the the thirteenth annual one last year. And while I may have been getting signatures last year, and recruited another Misty fan to our ranks, I did notice quite a lot of things in the anime convention that implies this sort of stereotype (Lets see, they had some action figures in revealing outfits, I saw some School Rumble things (and from the way the girls were either seen in the nude, or their facial expressions of whininess, I deduced that it was DEFINITELY a FAS thing.), I accidentally watched a birthday thing involving some ladies naked, I got a Witchblade "postcard" for lack of a better term, for signing up for AWA 13, there was a Sailor Moon/DBZ crossover video on sale with Goku... err... cheating on Chichi by groping Moon's breasts, there were some pics demeaning females, Master Roshi's Magazines, among other things. So, really, I have some grounds on my beliefs.

    "Maximilien Robespierre claimed that he was revolting for the people, but ended up being just as controlling as the monarchs, if not more so. The only difference is what he and the monarchs supposedly stood for. Just because you say you are not controlling doesn't mean you are not."

    I'm pretty sure he usurped the person in charge of the resistance AFTER the revolution (I don't recall him being labeled as being the leader of the revolution in my World History class. Actually, the only time he actually WAS mentioned was AFTER the execution of the royal family.

    BTW, Just FYI, when I SAY that I'm not controlling, I do mean it. I'm only wishing to carry out what my mom wanted. I asked people if they didn't like how women were treated, they responded that they didn't like it at all. Heck, even a Japanese student never liked that, either.
  8. PorygonSquared
    September 20th, 2008 02:34 PM
    PorygonSquared
    Exactly. You've never heard of CLAMP. This just shows how utterly ignorant your "Misty is one of the few girls who is not of the female anime stereotype in all of anime" is. Watch more anime before making such an idiotic statement.

    "If I wanted to control them, I would have thought that girls shouldn't read, shouldn't be intelligent, and would have been nothing more than sex objects for males to dominate over."

    Maximilien Robespierre claimed that he was revolting for the people, but ended up being just as controlling as the monarchs, if not more so. The only difference is what he and the monarchs supposedly stood for. Just because you say you are not controlling doesn't mean you are not.

    P.S. Isn't it ironic that you claim to be fighting for females, and yet you are fighting with a girl (Jorah)?
  9. weedle_mchairybug
    September 20th, 2008 02:08 PM
    weedle_mchairybug
    I don't desire to control females. Heck, I don't want to place anything upon my control, Period, since I want to be an egalitarian, not an imperialist.

    Also, the Hair thing was terrible, beyond a doubt. I mean, would you like a girl who is almost obsessed with her own appearance? No, I don't think you would. Heck, I don't think anyone would.

    As for part about Misty's "Bad attitude", as I said before, it's only when she is insulted by someone where she actually does do that (and I don't just mean a "Percieved insult" [as in, she takes literally every letter in the vocabulary of someone as being an insult to her {similar to Naru Narusegawa, in a sense}.], I mean one that is undeniably an insult by everyone (for example, several nasty things that Ash and Brock did to her {saying she shouldn't participate in "Kids day" just because she is a girl, Brock playing a joke on her in regards to the grass, Ash's references to Misty being ugly, or scrawny, etc, etc.), and Anyways, would you rather have someone who can't do anything but cry when hurt emotionally, unable to fend for herself, or would you rather have someone who can fight back if hurt emotionally, and is perfectly capable of fending for herself?

    As for Elf, my mom, and I, when we saw that movie, saw it as being nothing more than a stab at people who are innocent (they portrayed innocent people through Buddy as being almost having an IQ and maturity level of 1.)

    Also, I observed how girls acted in school (even in 5th grade, most of my female friends weren't even highly focused on makeup, looking pretty, or anything like that.), so, even though I myself am not a girl, I do have an Idea as to what they are. Also, as I said, I just want to help girls. If I wanted to control them, I would have thought that girls shouldn't read, shouldn't be intelligent, and would have been nothing more than sex objects for males to dominate over. Basically, in translation, if I truly wanted to control Girls, I would have had the exact same beliefs as Gaston from beauty and the beast (which I don't, nor do I ever want to have them.)

    BTW, I haven't really heard of CLAMP, and I DON'T stereotype anime as being Shounen, and even if I did stereotype it as Shounen, I definitely don't enjoy doing that. BTW, unlike most feminists, I'm not really for or against emphasis on love (in general, at least. now, if they portrayed them as being... oh, I don't know, like Airheads who are almost... ah... hookers, then yeah, I'm DEFINITELY against that.), plus, my main objections are girls being portrayed overly sexualized, and having their behavior being nothing more than loud, whiney, obnoxious, silly, spoiled, throwing temper tantrums, like the girls from Princess versus Princess, Love Hina, Witchblade, almost all of Master Roshi's magazines, Pizza, all of those girls. I don't necessarily object to girlyness.
  10. PorygonSquared
    September 20th, 2008 01:45 PM
    PorygonSquared
    You make a big deal over the hair thing, and don't care about Misty's bad attitude. What makes the latter any less likely to influence people as the former? And we went over Elf already, and how you missed the point.

    Maybe girls are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to how their kind should act, but they are sure more qualified than you, because, well, they are actually girls, while you're just some guy who wants to control how girls should act. I'm betting that you probably think the CLAMP manga group is sexist against women for portraying them as girly and their emphasis on love, despite being run by a group of females. But then again, I doubt you have even heard of CLAMP, considering how you enjoy stereotyping anime as Shounen.
  11. weedle_mchairybug
    September 20th, 2008 07:11 AM
    weedle_mchairybug
    "Wait, I thought we were talking about Pokemon. You failed to address my point about how a lot of girls look up to May and Dawn, and obviously the appeal wouldn't be there if they didn't have positive traits. Basically you're saying that May and Dawn aren't really that bad compared to the starlets and supermodels."

    Maybe I am, but they still seem to be a bit of a bad influence. Besides, I knda stated how they can be a bad influence. For example, the whole Innocence thing could be attributed to the whole "you must fall for every single prank" thing (since that's what "Innocent" is defined as now and these days, especially with movies such as "Elf" and the Bewitched movie.), plus, I don't think how May handled Manaphy's (second) abduction attempt would have been a good example. Heck, looking in the mirror, and posing in outfits, and throwing a fit if their hair or something is ruined are also very Bad influences.

    Besides, Just because someone (even a girl) thinks that that's how girls should act doesn't mean that this IS how girls should act. Look at the Triplets from "Beauty and the Beast", for example. They acted just like what Gaston invisioned women to be like (in other words, extremely unintelligent, only desiring to be with a man, etc. etc.), and that belief was flawed in and of itself.

    "And considering eating disorders, yes the media is one factor, but not the only one. You seem to be unable to see that there is usually more than one cause to an effect. Personally, I believe that the whole "weight loss" (the media blew the "healthy weight" thing completely out of proportion) craze also is a factor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_disorders#Causes"

    Err... Yeah, that craze (I believe it was "Atkins Diet") was also promoted heavily in regards to that. Also, even if there WERE more causes than just the media, my various health classes, the way they taught how Bulimia and Anorexia were caused, and how bad they are, made it seem as though the Media IS the way they are getting these things.

    "Like I said, people tend to travel in groups. It may be awkward, as people usually group same-gender, but on television, where demographic representation is necessary, guys are grouped with girls. As aspiring trainers, they can both help each other in ways that one couldn't alone."

    Yeah, but you also said that it's pointless for Misty (and brock, but he isn't necessary to our debate, since we both agree on him) to follow Ash on his journey, which completely contradicts what you just said.
  12. PorygonSquared
    September 20th, 2008 06:54 AM
    PorygonSquared
    "Even if that were true, I really need to point out that some girls actually MIMIC what some starlets do (all of which have no positive feedbacks whatsoever), which, yes, DOES need to be stopped. Plus, some girls try to mimic supermodels's bodyshapes in a flawed sense of trying to achieve the standard body, and it has negative effects through their actions (and indirectly the Modeling/Playboy-esque magazines), as some of them either refuse to eat entirely, or stuff their faces full and then heave them out, which, either way, ISN'T a good thing."

    Wait, I thought we were talking about Pokemon. You failed to address my point about how a lot of girls look up to May and Dawn, and obviously the appeal wouldn't be there if they didn't have positive traits. Basically you're saying that May and Dawn aren't really that bad compared to the starlets and supermodels.

    And considering eating disorders, yes the media is one factor, but not the only one. You seem to be unable to see that there is usually more than one cause to an effect. Personally, I believe that the whole "weight loss" (the media blew the "healthy weight" thing completely out of proportion) craze also is a factor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_disorders#Causes

    Like I said, people tend to travel in groups. It may be awkward, as people usually group same-gender, but on television, where demographic representation is necessary, guys are grouped with girls. As aspiring trainers, they can both help each other in ways that one couldn't alone.
  13. weedle_mchairybug
    September 19th, 2008 07:56 PM
    weedle_mchairybug
    "According to Korobooshi Kojiro, a lot of people were aroused by Ariel's outfit when he was a kid, so it could be considered fanservice in a sense."

    Maybe, but it wasn't enough of a fanservice especially since it wasn't part of a Lawsuit against Disney (especially since that film alone spawned the whole "Happy" bishop lawsuit and the phallic tower lawsuit.)

    "Do I want girls to act like May and Dawn? Considering that they both have a lot of female fans, they must have quite admirable traits, so if they want to emulate their good parts, by all means yes. Why should I stop them?"

    Even if that were true, I really need to point out that some girls actually MIMIC what some starlets do (all of which have no positive feedbacks whatsoever), which, yes, DOES need to be stopped. Plus, some girls try to mimic supermodels's bodyshapes in a flawed sense of trying to achieve the standard body, and it has negative effects through their actions (and indirectly the Modeling/Playboy-esque magazines), as some of them either refuse to eat entirely, or stuff their faces full and then heave them out, which, either way, ISN'T a good thing.

    "Concerning May and Dawn, it at least makes sense that they would travel with other trainers to get experience and companionship. Rarely do people travel alone. Misty and Brock are Gym Leaders, though, so they seem to have little business travelling with some random trainer."

    In regards to May, maybe that's true, but she still shouldn't have traveled with Ash during the battle frontier, since she really didn't need to accompany him due to having learned tons of things in Hoenn.

    As for Dawn, some of the people who watched Collision of pokemon worlds said that Dawn joining Ash and co. was a pointless decision. They even stated that she had even LESS of a reason for Joining Ash than Tracey, which, coming from a guy whose sole reason for joining is to meet Professor Oak, says a lot. They even pointed out that, considering how (relatively) well she did in her first day, she didn't really need to Join up with Ash.
  14. PorygonSquared
    September 19th, 2008 07:41 PM
    PorygonSquared
    According to Korobooshi Kojiro, a lot of people were aroused by Ariel's outfit when he was a kid, so it could be considered fanservice in a sense.

    Do I want girls to act like May and Dawn? Considering that they both have a lot of female fans, they must have quite admirable traits, so if they want to emulate their good parts, by all means yes. Why should I stop them?

    Concerning May and Dawn, it at least makes sense that they would travel with other trainers to get experience and companionship. Rarely do people travel alone. Misty and Brock are Gym Leaders, though, so they seem to have little business travelling with some random trainer.
  15. weedle_mchairybug
    September 19th, 2008 07:29 PM
    weedle_mchairybug
    "Concerning your fanservice examples, those only prove one type of fanservice. In every respectable information source I've seen, fanservice in anime is defined as anything that is fetish fuel. This covers a wide variety of things, not just how you see it."

    Yeah, but even still, it still seems to be the more common usage of fanservice. Besides, being in one, in itself, isn't ACTUALLY fanservice. Take Ariel from the Little Mermaid, for example, she wears naught but a seashell bra in her mermaid form, and no one really mentioned it as "Fanservice" (especially since no one sued disney in regards to her surfacing as a human for the first time.)

    "Concerning your complaints about May and Dawn, I strongly suspect that you are preaching to an audience that doesn't know squat about Pokemon. Your aunt, for example, seemed to never see May, only going by your word. And I am very surprised if most of your school is interested in Pokemon. Even discounting the fact that many people ridicule it nowadays, clearly ~900 students should have more diverse interests. You can't just assume that they all know what you are talking about. On a related note, I saw your comrades' comments on Youtube, and they sound like they are just playing along with you without actually believing what you are saying."

    Actually, I'm pretty sure they would have insulted me if they truly didn't like it (I mean, thats what most of the reviewers did, though most of them have more commented on my appearance more than the actual moral.). Besides, most of the kids at my school seemed to have at least heard about pokemon. Another thing, I didn't just give my aunt my word, I also went as far as to show pics of May and compare them with Misty.

    "You still never addressed my point about how you seem to assume all girls that like May and Dawn act like skanks and b****es. Having been around such fans, it seems hypocritical that you would call the girls stereotypes and yet imply stereotyping her fans in turn. In fact, there is one user that likes May and hates Misty, and she isn't exactly a girly girl either."

    I thought I did. I mean, they acted whiney, vain (I know, I know, May looked in a mirror ONE time, but she was also vain in the sense of posing in different outfits and, well, "stripping", for a lack of a better term. Now DAWN, yeah, she DEFINITELY was vain, for more than a few episodes.), spoiled, and airheaded. I mean, is that really how you want girls to act? Do you honestly want them to act almost like the Triplets? I mean, heck, one of my cousins mentioned how she didn't like those Gaston Fan-triplets because of how they acted, and I agreed with her.

    "Definitely I agree with the Brock thing. However, I cannot possibly see why Misty has to necessarily return to the main cast and not do her own thing instead. And I cannot see why you couldn't make your own TV show instead of complaining about someone else's."

    In regards to making my own TV show, it's because I'm not exactly old enough yet, and I still have to work on video editing systems as much as I can learn about them before I actually DO make my own. Also, did you agree with me on the May (her rejoining Ash in Kanto, I mean?) and Dawn thing, as well?

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