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Cerberus87 Cerberus87 is offline

Mega Houndoom, baby!

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  1. OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    3 Weeks Ago 08:17 PM
    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    Which is sad. They should've given it Extreme Speed (though now it won't help it's Mega as much due to it being special oriented).
  2. BettyNewbie
    3 Weeks Ago 06:18 PM
    I like talking to you, too.

    If you ask me, I think competitive battling has had a poisonous influence on the games.

    While there was a "metagame" of sorts during the first two Generations, competitive battling was a niche, at best, back then. Not only were fewer people online, in general, (I wouldn't get my first internet access until 2003, well after I had grown out of the games), but the larger fanbase was also younger and didn't really understand the "deeper" mechanics of battling to begin with. (For most of them, "competitive multiplayer" amounted to 6 Mewtwo vs 6 Mewtwo (with the possible Ember/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Fire Spin Charizard) during recess on a couple of GBCs smuggled into school.)

    Because the actual "competitive" demo was so small, GF largely ignored them back then. Changes like Dark/Steel and the split of the Special stat were made because Psychics and high-Special Pokémon were just as overpowered in-game (and in mainstream battling outlets like the Stadium games) as they were in competitive 6v6. And, most of the other changes GSC brought to the table were largely for the benefit of casual play, such as Day/Night, expanded storyline, multiple regions, and of course, gender selection. (Even breeding and held items were geared more towards casuals when they were first introduced.)

    That changed when Gen 3 rolled around. Pokémania was over, the backlash had set in, and the few original fans who stuck around for RSE were older and knee-deep into competitive, desperate to prove that Pokémon wasn't a "kids game." "Stall" was barely seen at all in Gen 2 outside of competitive 6v6 all-Leftover teams, but GF listened to the complaints anyways, and implemented Natures and EVs, reducing everyone's bulk and raising the bar for entry into competitive (and making breeding more of a necessity for getting "good" Pokémon). And, in place of second regions, we got Battle Towers and Battle Frontiers, instead, as postgames, just in case anyone who didn't have any friends wanted to go competitive. (It was "screw you" to people who didn't want to go competitive at all.)

    It shouldn't be any surprise that it was during this Gen that a little site called Smogon reared its ugly head.

    It only grew worse with Gen 4 and the advent of Wi-Fi. We saw a bunch of new items and berries introduced that had no purpose other than competitive battling, and the Power Creep started getting insane. Gen 5 only furthered these trends with the introduction of "Dream World" Abilities, which served almost no purpose other than adding even more Power Creep to the games. Meanwhile, in-game play continued to be watered-down and postgames nonexistent; even Gen 5, with its stronger story, had a postgame that was equally as shallow and competitive-oriented as Gen 3 and 4's.

    The fanbase continued to get older, and Smogon's influence continued to grow. Competitive battlers started to dominate online message boards, and they had no qualms about attacking anyone who got more out of the games than hollow number-crunching for "perfection." It started to become quite common to see people say "Pokémon stories suck" and ditch the actual games for battle simulators, where all they had to do was plug in a few names and numbers, no thinking required. Divisions between so-called "Karenites" and "Smogonites" ran deep and were only continuing to grow.

    Now, here we are in Gen 6... and, competitive battlers have literally become GF's primary target audience. XY don't even try to hide it anymore. The story is as fast and shallow as possible for ease of buttom-mashing, and the new Exp. Share makes it even faster and easier. They even made the breeding/EV-ing part more accessible, with Super Training and NPCs directly referencing IVs, which is a good thing, because it's not like there's anything else to do in the postgame. ORAS amps it up even more with the Smogonization of Wally (a character who originally represented the opposite of their philosophy) and a NPC at the Battle Resort that says the following line: "Truly strong Trainers sometimes must be prepared to choose Pokemon that can win rather than their favorite Pokemon."

    As an older, non-competitive fan, I've never felt any more alienated from the rest of the fandom and even the games, themselves, as I do now. How did it get like this? Will it ever stop? Is it even possible to go back?
  3. BettyNewbie
    3 Weeks Ago 12:09 PM
    Dammit, the site ate the long-ass reply I was originally going to send to you. I don't feel like typing it all out again, so I'll just say that I agree with everything that you posted (especially in regards to EVs, Smogon, and the Stadium games). Sorry I couldn't give you more.

    Thanks for the link. I'll be sure to check it out.
  4. OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    3 Weeks Ago 08:21 AM
    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    They really should've given the pidgey line Gale Wings huh? I mean it's dex entry mentions Mach one speed...yet it's not all that fast.
  5. BettyNewbie
    3 Weeks Ago 08:26 PM
    You know what? You're totally right! They tried to simplify things again with the Super Training (which is, may I add, the first acknowlegment of numerical EVs in a Pokémon game, and we're in 6th gen!), but trying to make Pokémon into a generic RPG by adding "builds" (since that's what EV training is) was one of their worst mistakes with the series. The official explanation of this was to make the game more offense-oriented (since GSC was very stallish), but if it wasn't for hackers we'd never know about EVs and correct builds. You're supposed to grow attached with the Pokémon you choose to beat the game with, not discard them like trash. Because that's what 31 IVs and EVs did to the game.
    I agree 100%. The advent of Natures and EVs didn't do anything but make the games needlessly complicated and create the elitist monster known as "the metagame" (it shouldn't be a surprise that it was during Gen 3 that Smogon was created). It was no longer about winning with your favorites and treating your Pokémon as friends, but instead, mindless number-crunching for "perfection."

    And, what angers me even more about it is how GF has been catering more and more to this crowd in recent Generations, whether it's by lobotomizing in-game postgames so there's practically nothing to do *but* competitive battling (which includes battle facilities) after beating the League, or dumbing down the story so much that it's easy to button mash through it and get started on breeding/EV training as fast as possible. The Smogonization of Wally (a character who originally symbolized overcoming obstacles and winning with your favorites through the power of friendship) in ORAS is the final kicker.

    Yeah, the P/S split was heaven.
    Oh, definitely. When I played Pokémon Christmas (a Gold hack that includes a P/S split) recently, I loved being able to run Shadow Ball on Gardevoir (a Pokémon that benefits greatly from being plopped back into the older stat system...Mine actually survived a Self-Destruct!) and use Weavile (a line I've always loved but could never use because of their lack of Physical STAB), period.

    That's why a future Kanto game should have Johto, too. I hate the Sevii Islands.
    The Sevii Islands had a lot of potential, but they were very poorly-handled. I think a good remake (ie. not FRLG) could salvage them and make them into more of a real region (like a true game counterpart of the Orange Islands), but I'd be down with seeing a "3 years earlier" Johto, too. Azalea and possibly, Goldenrod Gym could have different Gym Leaders, and they could do a Lugia/Bird Trio story in the Whirl Islands (to reference Pokémon 2000 and parallel the Ho-Oh/Dog Trio story of Crystal).

    You know a lot about the games, it seems. More than I do, actually. Yellow had a lot of different stuff so I guess the memory was different and things could get more dangerous.
    Well, I like to read about them. My knowledge is mostly limited to the first two Gens, though.

    Oh, this is my main site. I have account on Serebii, too, but rarely use it because emulator talk is banned there.
    I've heard a lot of things about Serebii, and not nice ones, unfortunately. One of the members (who I'll just call "Lightning Feline") I had a problem with at the other site (which I'll call "Grass Starter Farm") is also a member there, if you've ever had the misfortune of running into him.
  6. CarcharOdin
    3 Weeks Ago 07:55 PM
    Well, I ain't a mod, so I can't do that, but I'm sure some mod will come around eventually and do that.
  7. OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    3 Weeks Ago 07:49 PM
    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    I loved that scene...I wished that the other remakes had such exchanges between gym leaders.
    Yeah, I don't doubt that. If the Johto protags are as old as the Hoenn ones then Bugsy is probably 12, if so he'll be 9 in a past Johto.
  8. CarcharOdin
    3 Weeks Ago 07:44 PM
    Just a heads up, we already have an underrated games thread:

  9. OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    3 Weeks Ago 07:34 PM
    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    Yeah, it wouldn't. I do wonder how young Bugsy is...he may become the youngest gym leader then...which I think is currently either still Liza and Tate or Iris took the throne in White.
    It is a big part of his character. You know he doesn't seem to be all that different from Janine...both a bit of a father's complex XD.
  10. OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    3 Weeks Ago 07:16 PM
    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
    So you'll like to see Johto in another Kanto re-remake too (I stalked your convo with Betty)? Which gym leaders would you replace if you could replace any of them?

    Since Falkner is rather young I would replace him with his father as irc he's the previous gym leader according to NPC's. Perhaps Bugsy too. I'll like the order to be Whitney first (perhaps the train in Saffron takes us there which is how we get to Johto at the beginning, or have Violet be blocked)...wait Whitney seems quite inexperienced too. Johto certainly had several young gym leaders now that I think about it.

About Me

  • About Cerberus87
    Basically someone who started playing Pokémon in 1999 and never grew out of it. My first version was Blue, which I still have somewhere but I'm pretty sure my GBC doesn't work anymore anyway.

    I have severe OCD, so when I play I make up some "conditions" for my teams. Usually, my Pokémon's names must all start with different letters (used to mean that the Pokémon's *actual* names should start with different letters, so no Houndoom and Heracross together, but since I nickname I've made this condition more flexible), there must be no repeated types, and their general sizes can't be too different (a somewhat flexible condition). Yes, I'm weird like that. My ID also can't contain numbers I hate, so I restart the game until I have desired ID.

    Feel free to VM, I'm always here even if I don't post often.
    Pokémon, TV series, anime, books...
    Male ♂
    Favorite Pokémon
    Houndoom and generally most Fire-types, except Torkoal because Torkoal is small, slow and boring.
  • Friend Safari Fields
    You know what this is.
  • Signature

    3DS FC: 3282-2423-7870 (PM if you add) (Bug-type Safari)

    Please give Boomburst to Pidgeot, GF!!!


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