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Johto Region Champion

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  1. BettyNewbie
    10 Hours Ago 9:49 PM
    I've seen fan art where Misty had grown up and achieved her dreams, met back up with Ash, and was like "omg..." because his ass was still 10 and a loser. I'm not sure how to find it again because if I google "Misty Fan Art" I have a pretty good idea of what will show up and it isn't what I'm looking for. But it shows that at least other people agree with us that they want to see the characters mature, move on, and achieve their goals -- and think Ash is useless.
    Not sure if either of these are the one you're talking about, but they're hilarious!

    This one doesn't have Misty in it, but I also loved it:

    Ash really is the epitome of a useless character, isn't he? He never ages, he never wins anything, he never grows or develops as a person. And, now we have the Gen 7 anime making him look even younger and dumber than before:

    Just, WHY?

    I can't believe anyone still ships poor Misty with this loser. She deserves a kind, sensitive, and most of all, mature guy, someone a bit more like...

    Yup, I'm a Tracey fan. I'll always have a soft spot for the sensitive artist types, and I never liked the way his character was handled on the show. (Liked you putting him in Red++, BTW.)

    If I had my way, both he and Misty would've dumped Ash's ass and moved on to their own series together. Ash can keep his eternal youth and revolving door of bimbo contest girlfriends.

    Yeah, in the last release, I did mention that Lance was training in Unova or something, as a line of throwaway dialogue to explain his absence. Honestly though, I should try to work in a way to have him appear later in the game. Of course I didn't want him to have the same events as original GSC, since it's supposed to be a sequel, but you're right that he does need to be somewhere. Any thoughts on a good place for him?
    Hm, good question. I wouldn't mind somehow incorporating him into the Lugia event, to be honest. While not an actual Dragon type, Lugia is a dragonlike Pokémon, so I think it could work.

    And don't worry, Christmas isn't dead. I'm going to come back to it once I finish up v2.4 of Red++. Since v3.0 will be in development for a long time, I figured I should go back to Christmas and finish it up. Honestly, I'm thinking very seriously about copying my stuff over to Pokecrystal instead of finishing it out as a Gold hack like it is now. I know that would make people have to start new saves, but at this point I think everyone would be starting fresh in the full version anyway. Porting it to Pokecrystal would speed up development of new stuff, would fix some bugs that are the result of awkwardly trying to port features from Crystal over to Gold (these are mostly bugs related to gender selection and the extended tileset patch), and it would also make some of the planned features easier to add, such as Friend Safari in Johto's Safari Zone, and re-enabling the Kanto Safari Zone. I don't really think it would be doable to try and add the Safari Battle Mode back in on Gold, but using the disassembly, it would be a lot easier. Plus, after getting so used to working with a disassembly and the ease and flexibility that comes with it while making Red++, going back to the old fashioned way of hacking to work on Christmas becomes a pain and makes me not want to do it. But it shouldn't take very long to copy my work over. Maps and tilesets could just be ripped and imported, new scripts could easily be copy and pasted over, and the same for text changes. Then you just have minor things here and there like adding Pickup again, but that was hella simple and I still have the code written down for it anyway. So yeah, Christmas isn't dead, just on hold.
    I say go for it. Crystal's a much nicer base than Gold, anyways, and the disassembly's even better.

    Adventures fans need to get a grip. Also, in one of the really old versions of Secrets and Rumours, we indiscriminately used "Red" and "Ash", and "Blue" and "Gary" to refer to the players (since the player wasn't either of them, and Blue wasn't the rival. The old versions were super inaccurate). I'm sure they hated it back then hahaha.
    Well, where do you think the names "Ash" and "Gary" came from in the first place? They're the first non-color preset names in Red and Blue!

    In fact, the Gen 1 PC and rival were generally seen as "Ash" and "Gary" back in the day. "Red" and "Blue" weren't canonized until GS came out, and even then, they didn't really catch on until years later when the game fandom started to become more segregated from the anime fandom.

    That's my guess. I'd like to know where they pulled "Ethan" from anyway? Or better yet, why he was Jimmy in the anime...
    I have no idea. Maybe, they thought the name "Hiro" was too Japanese-sounding? Remember that we're talking about anime translators who thought kids would recoil at the sight of rice balls.

    I feel like the Mario connection is a lot stronger than the Red one, but I can see it a bit. Not to mention the fact that we all thought Marill was a Pikachu evolution back when he was first announced. Back when we thought he was called Pikablu. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a result of Nintendo intervention though, whether it was for a Red connection or a Mario connection or both.
    Mario and Red are both iconic Nintendo characters, so I could see Nintendo coming up with her character as a "tribute" to them and forcing GF to put her in HGSS.

    Of course, this sounds even more ridiculous when you consider that RED IS ALREADY IN THE GAME, so they should've just put him in his RBY design instead of FRLG one if they wanted to pay "tribute" to the original Red so much. Besides, if they weren't going to acknowledge the existence of Green, then they might as well have just used RBY Red and treated these as RBY sequels instead of FRLG ones.

    I pick on FRLG a lot for missed opportunities, but HGSS had many of their own. None of the remakes have truly satisfied me, to be honest.

    (Side note: I still reference Pikablu a couple of times in Christmas, as well as a few of the other Gen 1 rumors. The 2012 version had an NPC in Kanto mention something along the lines of "I hear a kid found a really rare Pokémon on the docks in Vermillion three years ago." for example, and another NPC in the 2014 version has a Marill that he nicknamed Pikablu. Plus, when you battle Green, she is on top of Cerulean Cave, complaining that the path to Brick Town is blocked.
    Oh, I remember the "Pikablu" days, myself and all the crazy rumors that floated around about the "mysterious" Gen 2 Pokémon. Good times!
  2. BettyNewbie
    17 Hours Ago 2:21 PM
    I'd rather have just about anyone overshadow Ash at this point, especially the female leads haha. And yeah, the others definitely dodged a bullet in that regard. I don't think anyone would buy them in the sorts of roles that GF loves to put them in. smh.
    Even back in the day, I always thought that Ash was the least interesting thing about the anime. He's always been just a whiny, annoying kid who sucks at battling. He didn't even earn half his Kanto badges, and it's gotten hilarious how he keeps on losing regional leagues. Gary was right all along.

    Misty had far more potential as a leading character than Ash ever did, IMO. In fact, Ash's existence was what partly held her back from her full potential as a character. She couldn't overshadow him, so she had to be portrayed as equally bad, if not worse, at battling as he was.

    Once Togepi came along, she was pretty much reduced to being a side character who did nothing but hold this useless baby Pokémon and cheer Ash on (especially by the time of Johto). And, then as the ultimate insult, she was unceremoniously dropped from the show without ever getting any closure or fulfilling her goal and was replaced with the first of many bimbo fanservice coordinators.

    This could be a case of me forgetting something since it's been a while since I worked on Christmas. I was thinking that I had someone else as the champion, and was going to make her the Champion when you rematched the E4 after Kanto. But you're probably right, I do kind of remember already making her the Champion in the Johto release. Just a blonde moment, ignore me.

    And yeah, I'm trying to make sure that the other player has at least some role in things, by making them into a second rival, and trying to give them roughly as many battles with the player as Kris has, to keep things fair, and also having them give you things or help you at different points in the game.
    As much as Lance not being in Christmas makes me sad (Can't he have a postgame role or something?), I always love seeing a rival as the Champion. I also love seeing a female rival, which the games have shockingly still not had after all of these years. (No, I don't count the unselected PCs, especially since you have to play as the boy for these rivals to even be female.)

    With all the other projects you have, I hope you haven't forgotten about Christmas. Even if it is a special holiday game, I love what you're doing with it.

    I generally call her "Leaf" since everyone knows who I'm referring to, whether they use that name themselves or not. If you say "Green", you pretty much always stir up an argument between people who say that Gary should be "Green" and people who think he should be "Blue" and the girl should be "Green" due to the weird way the versions were released internationally and the resulting localization changes vs the original Japanese etc. But yeah, the actual basis for calling her Leaf is a stretch at best.
    You can mostly blame (surprise) Adventures fans for the Green/Blue arguments. Their favorite darkfic uses the Japanese names for the girl and the rival, so they throw a hissy fit whenever people use the localized names even when people clearly aren't talking about the Adventures counterparts. (And, they go nuclear whenever you call the rival "Gary." )

    When it comes to the male PC, I tend to call him Gold or Hiro (as referenced by Christmas), since Hiro was the first non-color name choice in the list of defaults. I don't call him Ethan at all.
    That's what I do, myself. "Ethan" was a completely unnecessary name change, IMO. In fact, I wonder if he would've stayed Gold/Hiro had Kris stayed in the games...

    I have no problem with brunette PCs, especially since I'm a brunette irl (as if my simself didn't give that away) but yeah, her hair color wouldn't have been any crazier than Dawn's, so it had to have been something else and equally stupid :/ The fact that she has unused data in the rom does indicate it was a late design change, and I'm still not convinced it didn't start as a joke and people just went along with it. (Seriously, she looks too much like a bad Mario cosplay to have been serious).
    One thing I've noticed is that in addition to the Mario similarities, Lyra also has some design similarities to RBY!Red:

    Not only do they have the same color scheme, but their official art is even in the exact same pose. And, while either of the PCs can be the kid with the Marill, I strongly suspect that the role was primarily written with Lyra in mind. Marill is Gen 2's closest equivalent to Pikachu, which was Red's starter. The Marill also never evolves, just as Red's Pikachu never evolved.

    This all makes me wonder if Lyra was Nintendo's idea rather than GF's. We know that Nintendo has meddled with the production of the games before (ie. pushing GF to make B2W2 instead of Grey), so it's not a Farfetch'd idea.
  3. BettyNewbie
    1 Day Ago 7:22 PM
    I do agree that, especially in the anime, they do not do the female PCs any justice at all. They are basically just Ash's new girlfriend for the season, and eye candy for the viewers, and that needs to stop.
    They're afraid that the female lead would overshadow Ash (as if that would be bad thing, lol) if they had her collecting badges like him, so that's why all of the show's female leads have been either game gym leaders who want to be masters of a type yet are constantly depicted as incompetent at battling (Misty, Iris) or game protagonists in girlfriend/coordinator roles (May, Dawn, Serena).

    As much as people have complained about Green, Hilda, and Rosa never appearing in the anime, they all may have dodged a bullet in this regard. Can you even imagine the likes of Green or Hilda being some ditzy bimbo coordinator with a thinly-veiled crush on Ash?

    While I did make it so Mei (the female PC in Christmas) says she wants to be a coordinator if you played as Hiro, the same type of thing happens if you play as Mei. Hiro declares that he is only interested in becoming a Breeder. Kris, the rival, still takes on the gym challenges and wants to become the Champion like you, regardless of your gender. She just doesn't actually make it (well, as far you know from the Johto half) but she keeps trying, and wants to eventually. I would never make the female characters just be pointless side characters, for multiple reasons.
    Wait, isn't Kris the Champion in the games? Unless you changed it since I last played Christmas, I pretty distinctly remember battling her at the end of the E4.

    I don't like pointless side characters in general, which GF has had a tendency to turn the unselected PC into whenever they can't be the rival. Case in point, Ethan's/Lyra's NPC role in HGSS.

    I may try making a custom sprite for her, the same way I did with Flannery. Flannery's sprite in Red++ and other hacks I've put her in was originall Whitney's Gen 2 sprite, heavily edited to be Flannery. I could probably take another sprite, do the same thing, and end up with a Hex Maniac sprite that fits the style properly if I take the time to do it right. That will probably be a change to get lumped in with v3.0 though, unless someone else makes one in the meantime. I'm more focused on finding and fixing bugs for v2.4, since it's supposed to be the "long term support" release while I work on all the big, interesting, save-breaking stuff that will be in v3.0 haha.
    Your Flannery sprite looks flawless, so that's probably the way to go. Here's all of the vanilla RBY and GSC trainer sprites as a reference:

    As for the female PC, no, she's still Green. I sometimes call her Leaf when talking about her, and the filenames for her sprites say "Leaf" but her in-game list of names are:


    So no worries there, I haven't changed it back. You really can't go by the filenames all the time. For example, the overworld sprite for the Looker is called "tennant.png" because I think he looks like David Tennant, even though he doesn't call himself that in-game. Well, one trainer on the SS Anne does say something like "I thought I saw David Tennant at the party, but I was mistaken." as a reference to it, but yeah.
    That's good to know.

    Calling the FRLG girl "Leaf" has never made much sense to me. I know that hidden data in FRLG calls her that (which is where the name came from), but that same data also referred to Blue as "Terry," so I have doubts about its validity.

    Both the male PC and rival have color names, so it's logical that the female PC has one, too. Plus, while these aren't game canon, the few manga adaptations that she appeared as a character in all called her a color name (Blue in JP, Green internationally). In fact, I can't think of anything "official" that has ever called her "Leaf," which tells me that in the event that GF ever decides to finally give her a canon identity, it probably won't be with that name.

    For the record, the FRLG girl isn't the only character whose name I'm finicky with. I absolutely hate it when people call the GSC boy "Ethan." That was never even a preset name for him in GSC, let alone an official one, so it should only ever be used in reference to HGSS. The GSC boy is still "Gold" as far as I'm concerned.

    Of course, this begs the question of whether or not Gold and Ethan are different characters like Kris and Lyra. Well, if it means anything, the anime clearly didn't see them as the same person:

    And yeah, the "she was only in Crystal" argument doesn't hold up at all. Probably someone at gamefreak decided they didn't like her, and gave her an unwelcome makeover. I could sort of go along with wanting to give her a natural hair color. If all they had done was make Crystal a brunette instead of having blue hair, but otherwise kept the design the same, I'd've been ok with it I think. But there was no need to just completely replace her with a cheap imitation of the real thing and act like we wouldn't notice.
    Yeah, GF really loves its brunette protagonists, but even if that was their main issue with Kris, it wouldn't have taken much effort to just change her hair color. In fact, a lot of old art actually depicted her as having a dark blue/black hair color similar to Dawn, who ironically was from the exact same generation as HGSS/Lyra.

    To add insult to injury, hidden deep in HGSS' data is an unused PokéGear icon that resembles Kris, so there WERE plans to bring her back at some point.
  4. BettyNewbie
    2 Days Ago 9:51 PM
    I'm going to have slightly disagree with you on part of this. While I don't like the characters being slutty and overly sexualized like they did with Sabrina for example, I have no problem with some characters wanting to be cute and girly, because that's just life. In the case of Marina, I especially don't have a problem with it. I don't think being a badass suits her character at all. Though to be fair, this could be a case of us both projecting something of ourselves onto the first female player character. You clearly enjoy the tough image and competitive nature, and want more characters to be that way. While I of course love strong female characters, I never saw Crystal aka Marina as a badass, because I imagined her as more like myself. While I'm not really ditzy like she is in the anime, I have no interest in being a badass. I'd rather be cute and girly (or sometimes just comfy and lazy, or other things depending on the day, but eh) and I guess I project that onto her when playing as her. So naturally, I want to see her depicted the way I imagined her, which is going to be at odds with the way you imagined her.
    Well, she was the first female PC, so some of it may be projection. However, the anime's depiction of her went beyond just "girly." They literally changed her outfit from the games to look lighter and pinker, and she wasn't even depicted as a real trainer, just some ditzy fangirl. (Ironically, though, they gave her Totodile instead of the more "expected" Chikorita.)

    Girly or not, I want to see female characters actually beating gyms and becoming champions, not getting forced into lesser roles like coordinator or other crap like that. That's what probably bugs me the most about the anime. Not only are the female leads treated as disposable, but they never get to be real trainers and get shoved into contests as soon as they show up.

    I agree with you on Janine, I'll go ahead and change that. Not entirely sure why I used that one instead of her Gen 2 sprite.

    On the female rocker, I honestly don't see it. Pia Carrot also tried to claim the sprite looked "too stiff" or something, and I still didn't see it. I'm not the one who made it or anything, so it isn't a case of being biased toward my own sprite. I just legit don't see the problem with it :/

    On the PI trainer (actually used for the Undercover Rocket on Nugget Bridge in here, since he is clearly not in a Rocket uniform on the overworld, and that sprite makes him look like a stereotypical "suspicious person trying to look inconspicuous" which he is) That sprite definitely has issues. The shading is annoying to get right. I tried to devamp it once with bad luck, someone else devamped it, we both tried to work on it, and I'm still not satisfied with it. So I agree it needs work. But I do like the design itself if it can be adapted appropriately to Gen 2 style.

    On the Hex Maniac, it was again problematic. The only resizing I had to do on the sprite was to make the skirt of her dress fit into the frame properly. The main issue I ran into was shading. But yeah, the proportions are off. Its clear that if she was standing up, she would be very tall compared to the others. But again, I prefer this design and don't want to use like the Gen 3 Hex Maniac. (And no, I'm not one of those people who are obsessed with her Gen 6 design, never understood those people, I just like it better than the old ones that I remember).

    On the Giovanni Gym sprite, I never really noticed the head size issue, but I can sort of see it. I guess the hat and such kind of distract me from the size of his actual head haha.
    Glad I could help.

    You could try to alter the Gen 3 Hex Maniac sprite to look more like the Gen 6 version if it comes down to it. If you want her to be sitting down, you could also try and find an existing Gen 1-3 sprite that's in a similar pose and use that as a base.

    While slightly off-topic, has the female PC in Red++ gone back to being "Leaf"? I know we agreed on calling her "Green" a while back, so I was just curious. I prefer to call her "Green," myself, although "Leaf" is more popular among the fandom.

    As an introvert, I'd much rather retire to a small island and only deal with the occasional weirdos than to be bombarded day in and day out by obnoxious wannabe champions who love to run their mouths and whatnot. But I'm not Lorelei. My plan was to have it be temporary when she left to deal with that, possibly do some other things as well, then return to her usual job. I do agree that it doesn't sound like Lorelei to quit her job for something like that.
    Key word is "retire." Lorelei's only in her 20s (early 30s at the oldest), so she's far too young to be retiring from anything. That story might've been more believable with Agatha, but not an able-bodied young woman with a long life ahead of her.

    Don't even get me started on Lyra. I hate her so much, I played HGSS as a guy (first time I've played as the guy since Silver) so I didn't have to look at her. I honestly don't understand the point in her outfit swap at all. It isn't even fanservicey IMO. It looks like she's cosplaying Mario for no good reason. And ORAS!May is just weird looking. She's way too skinny, her eyes look strange, and... yeah, I prefer the original design for sure.

    I will say that I loved how XY let us customize our players for a change. I know some people loved it and some people found a way to hate it, but I enjoyed it. Since I play slightly vicariously, I was constantly updating my outfit either to fit the area or to fit my mood that day. I clearly don't play as vicariously as I do with like The Sims, but yeah.
    You always play as the girls? I like that.

    Lyra is such a completely pointless character. What was so wrong with Kris that she needed to be scrapped? Some have argued that they got rid of Kris because she was only in Crystal, but how do you explain everything else from Crystal being in HGSS, including Eusine and his Suicune sidequest?

    As for ORAS!May, notice that they also replaced her bandanna with a bow and gave her a slightly frillier outfit. And, then there's this monstrosity she gets stuffed into whenever she does contests:

    Want to wear pants? Too bad, you should've played as Brendan.
  5. BettyNewbie
    3 Days Ago 9:53 PM
    I know that Origins wasn't for everyone. Some of the things that people complained about (such as the HP bars being distracting, or dialogue that was taken directly word-for-word from the games) were things I liked, since they helped tie it back to the games more closely than the regular anime does, even if it still had several FireRed elements that shouldn't have been there.

    Then again, what I've always thought the anime should've done was this:

    Instead of always focusing on Ash, and giving him essentially a new girlfriend/eye-candy-tagalong each generation, it should've just followed the current protagonists from the latest games. It could've kept the same style and tone it was going for, but it would've probably helped boost sales of the games. Think about it, if a kid has just been given Emerald as his first game, knows nothing about Gen 1 and 2, then turns on the anime and sees a guy based on the player from Gen 1 being chased by someone named Team Rocket who are nowhere to be found in Hoenn in the games, it will just be confusing. Wheras if the Kanto (and Orange Islands filler) had ended with Ash winning the league and going on to do something else, the Johto saga could've followed Ethan and Kris or whatever the anime would've called them, follow the events of GSC in the same loose way that Kanto did RBY, then have their story wrap up so the Hoenn saga can follow May and Brendan. I feel like by this point, people who have been watching from the beginning are sick of Ash, and people who are just starting don't even know who the hell Ash is supposed to be at this point, so it's just gotten silly. Plus doing it the other way, you wouldn't have to make up excuses for Ash to be 12 forever and forget everything he learned in the previous year or two each time he goes to a new region. Just my opinion, anyway.
    The big issue is that the Gen 1 games just don't have an interesting or deep enough story on their own for a straight anime adaptation to work. With a game, story isn't the main focus, so it works there, but an anime adaptation needs to be more fleshed out.

    As for your second point, I agree that this needed to happen from at least Hoenn onwards. RS were a hard reset for the games, so that should've also been the case for the anime.

    However, looking back, I could deal with Ash & Co. being in Johto. GSC were direct sequels to RBY, so pulling a hard reset on the anime then wouldn't have worked. (Especially not right after the backlash from replacing Brock with Tracey.) Plus, Ash, Misty, Brock, and the TRio still had many loose ends that needed to be tied up. Ash needed to win a game-based region and become Champion before getting replaced with someone else, you know?

    Johto's biggest problem was lack of direction. Scrap the COTD filler in favor of character development and storylines like the GS Ball and Legendary Dogs, and it wouldn't have been so bad. Yes, Jimmy still gets screwed out of being a lead character, but to make up for it, I would've included him as a younger rival for Ash to mentor.

    (Marina would've also appeared later in the arc, preferably as a badass girl and not the girly ditz she actually was in the anime. Since she didn't exist until Crystal, she obviously couldn't have been there in the beginning.)

    Yeah, the art in Stadium was pretty iffy for most trainers, and I couldn't remember what her design was like in there. The only game that I knew for a fact had her slutty outfit was Pokémon Puzzle League for N64, since its Pokemon elements were taken 100% from the anime, and its gameplay was taken 100% from a completely unrelated game called Panel de Pon (or to US audiences, "Tetris Attack", which was literally a romhack made by Nintendo to replace the characters and text to reference Yoshi's Island instead of cute fairies). But you're right, I definitely prefer her original design (or in Red++'s case, this slightly reshaded version by Chaos Rush. In fact, the current release used sprites for all leaders and E4 by chaos rush which were in Gen 2 style sprites to match the others, but modeled on the official Gen 1 artwork. The only exception is one of Giovanni's sprites (he uses his normal sprite in Rocket appearances to look like a mob boss, and a second sprite for the Gym battle, since in-game text indicates most people don't realize the Gym Leader is also the leader of Team Rocket, so I wanted him to look more "undercover" so to speak.
    Love that Gen 2 style Lorelei sprite. Like that you've decided to use more Gen 2 style stuff instead of straight FRLG devamps. Looking through the rest of the sprites, though, I found a few issues:

    This isn't a bad devamp, but I think Janine would look better with her GSC sprite.

    You can pretty obviously tell that these are all DS (or 3DS in the case of the Hex Maniac) devamps in that none of them look proportional with the other sprites. Their heads are too small, and their bodies are too long.

    (The gym battle Giovanni sprite has a similar issue. His body's ok, but his head's too small.)

    To me, Lance looks more like... I dunno, a college Freshman in the anime, but I imagined him being closer to our age. I don't want him to look like he's in his late 40s or anything either, I guess I just still got the impression he was older than the anime version looked to me.
    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one (outside of the part about him being in his 40s, of course).

    That always bothered me, too. That's why I brought Lorelei back in Christmas, and in the Kanto half it will be explained that it was just a temporary leave during the summer to take care of a problem, and Will filled in while she was away. Haven't really decided what to do with Agatha yet, but I don't want her to disappear. Especially with her being and old character, the implication of her disappearance in the canon games may as well be that she died and nobody cared, which is not a fitting scenario. (I have no plans for her to be dead in my canon, btw. I also seemingly talked Rangi out of killing her off in a planned sequel to Christmas and Polished Crystal, since we decided that our hacks will exist in a shared universe).
    GF halfheartedly tried to "explain" away Lorelei's disappearance in FRLG with that Sevii Islands sidequest, strongly implying that she quit the E4 to protect the island she lived on, but to me that arguably felt like an even bigger disrespect to her character. Why would anyone quit a prestigious career in the League to spend their lives all alone on some bumpsyduck island fighting off worthless Rocket Grunts? Especially when we got to see Lance do that exact thing, yet still keep his job and have a life, in the Gen 2 games?

    I feel like the goal was just to sexualize Team Aqua and make Team Magma look like the stereotypical nerds for whatever reason. They've been doing that a lot lately with several of the characters. On the one hand, I get it, they're pandering to their audience since a lot of people are into the characters in lewd ways. They do it with the anime too. Dawn is basically just walking fanservice in the anime, with the way she runs and jumps around in a tiny skirt that only anime physics keeps from flashing people, all while claiming she's like 10 or whatever. So if they'll do that with Dawn, I'm not surprised that they took an adult like Sabrina and made her dress like she's going clubbing. While we're on the subject, they did the same thing with Karen. And just like with Lorelei, I liked her LBD better than her HGSS outfit.
    The Karen redesign bugs me a lot, too. Not only does the HGSS outfit look hideous and trashy on her, but it doesn't even look like something a Dark specialist would wear. Ugh.

    If we're going to get into awful fanservicey/girly redesigns, must I mention these two?

    If they can find a way to make a female protagonist look younger/cuter/girlier, they'll do it.

    (Also, notice how skinny Lyra and ORAS!May look in comparison to their original counterparts? Yikes...)
  6. BettyNewbie
    3 Days Ago 8:18 PM
    No problem. That sometimes happens to me.
  7. BettyNewbie
    3 Days Ago 6:55 PM
    Did I say something bad? I'm sorry if my last reply was a TL;DR.
  8. BettyNewbie
    4 Days Ago 9:20 PM
    I haven't actually started watching Generations yet. I was originally excited, since it seemed to originally be marketed as if it was going to be like Origins, but covering all of the games or something. So since I enjoyed Origins, I was pretty excited to see a longer version. Then, of course, it turns out that the episodes are apparently really short and mostly disappointing, so I don't know what to think anymore. I probably will still take the time to get caught up at some point, but obviously not in much hurry given the way they're handling it.
    I wasn't a fan of Origins at all. The animation was so-so, the HP bars and text boxes were extremely distracting, they used FRLG elements when it was supposed to be based on RB, and at the end of the day, it was really just a big advertisement for Charizard and its shiny new part-Dragon Mega Evo.

    For a long time I thought I wanted a "game-accurate" anime, and then I watched Origins and realized that it would be completely boring. Deviating from the strict story of the games and fleshing out Kanto was something that the Ash anime did right. To me, it felt like Origins completely lacked humor and personality in comparison.

    On the Lorelei issue, honestly, her anime appearance kind of annoyed me. He outfit was completely different from the games, her chest was unrealistic af (to be honest, based solely on the pics you posted and my memory of the orange islands anime, I think her chest was a lot larger in the original anime, although it's still obnoxious in Generations for sure). I think her hair and face were closer to her actual appearance in the original anime, but I like that Generations at least made her outfit match ONE of her official outfits. Last time I checked, none of the games have Lorelei wearing heels, a tiny micromini skirt, a red bustier, and a jacket. I would've preferred the simple elegance of the black long sleeved mini dress she wore in the original games.
    This one's kind of iffy, but her Stadium mugshot (aka. the only existing official game art of her from RBY) appeared to be wearing a purple version of her anime outfit:

    Of course, she also had blonde hair in it, so YMMV.

    The early anime had a tendency to deviate from game outfits with the major characters. If you notice, none of the Kanto Gym Leaders had their RBY outfits either. It was starting with Johto that character designs became more game-accurate.

    For the record, I really just don't like Lorelei's FRLG design. It never looked much like her at all, and Generations only further proves it. I prefer the black dress look, myself.

    For Lance, I do prefer his anime design, although I feel like his face almost makes him look younger than he is supposed to be. But over all, much closer to the real design. The one in Generations doesn't look like Lance at all.
    If anime Lance seems too young, it's because of how FRLG and (especially) HGSS have aged his character up since then. Look at official art of him from the first two Gens, and he looks like a young guy no older than his early 20s:

    Stark contrast from HGSS, where he appears to be around 40-45 years old:

    I guess GF didn't think he looked "intimidating" or "powerful" enough as a young man? I dunno, but I way prefer him younger. He's supposed to be a cool/inspiring big brother/mentor figure to the protagonist, which works far better with a 20-22 year old than a man in his 30s or 40s. Plus, RBY/GSC Lance was hotter.

    I'll also agree that Agatha looks by far the closest to her canon appearances. I feel like she's an underappreciated character, so it's good that they at least did her justice here.
    Considering that she's the only one of the original E4 who didn't get to appear in the OS anime (she did get an appearance in AG, but... AG), I have to agree. Never liked the way GSC got rid of her and Lorelei without any closure.

    When it comes to the remakes, I have to agree, I was really confused by the admin redesigns in ORAS. With Team Aqua, I was never sure if they were meant to be black or just super tan due to being "pirates" and such. But regardless of whether it was intended to change their race, everything else about them changed to, making them completely unrecognizable. I'm sure similar things might happen in Sinnoh remakes, although maybe not as drastically. By Gen 4 they had already started diversifying the designs on the admins in the main games and in the remakes, so they might still be recognizable at least. I'm sure they would get a lot of costume changes, for better or for worse. Maybe Team Galactic would get new uniforms, their original ones always bothered me anyway. I'm sure your favorite champion would get a Sabrina-style makeover too.

    I was also pretty annoyed by the way they changed Flannery in ORAS. I always liked how even though she was cute, her outfit was more casual and comfortable instead of anything crazy. Just a crop top, baggy jeans, and sneakers. Then along come the remakes and they make her less casual and more "oh btw look at my cleavage" instead.
    Yeah, I just can't see how you can go from this:

    To this:

    Or, how this:

    Was apparently supposed to be some short fat guy:

    I realize that none of these characters had official art, but you could still pretty much tell what they were supposed to look like from their sprites. What was GF thinking with these redesigns?

    As for Flannery, I get the sense that her redesign was made for people who liked to make less-than-tasteful "art" of her. Kind of like Sabrina's redesign, really.
  9. TyHawk4501
    4 Days Ago 1:47 PM
  10. TyHawk4501
    4 Days Ago 1:11 PM
    Oh ok. Cool, glad to hear that. Not much with me. Busy with school a lot.
  11. BettyNewbie
    4 Days Ago 11:29 AM
    The most recent episode of Generations has done nothing but remind me of how much more I prefer the RBY/GSC character designs over the FRLG/HGSS ones. Lorelei, Lance, and Bruno all looked horrible compared to the versions we saw in the anime:


    Wrong eye color, wrong hair color, chest size even more unrealistically large


    Wrong eye color (whoever made this special seems to have something against blue eyes... Lorelei and Lance are both supposed to have blue eyes, yet neither one has them here), uglier outfit, appears to be about 20-30 years older than he's supposed to be


    Too pale, hair too long and light, face too gaunt

    Only Agatha looks appropriate for her character in the episode, and even then, she benefits from her creepier RBY design having never appeared in the anime as something to compare it against.

    I know this sounds minor, but I really wish these "nostalgia" specials (like Origins and Generations) would use original designs and settings and not remake ones. RBY and GSC are what I have nostalgia for, not FRLG and HGSS, and seeing characters in their remake designs or gyms that look like how they appear in the remakes only makes me think of the remakes and not the originals I grew up with. (Especially when SO MANY characters look dramatically different in FRLG/HGSS than they did in RBY/GSC.)

    I'm sure there are people who have nostalgia for FRLG and HGSS, but most of those people are the younger generation that grew up with Hoenn and Sinnoh and never played the original Gens 1-2. I highly doubt stuff like Origins was aimed at those fans.

    This is yet another reason why Sinnoh fans wishing for remakes should be careful what they wish for. The trend has been for character redesigns becoming increasingly more dramatic and OOC (ie. Tabitha becoming fat, Brawly/Shelly/Matt turning black, Sabrina dressing like a club skank, etc.), so it's only telling what awful redesigns remakes would inflict on the Sinnoh characters.
  12. TyHawk4501
    5 Days Ago 3:12 PM
    I'm alright too. So, anything new with you?
  13. BettyNewbie
    5 Days Ago 1:58 PM
    But yeah, I do agree that they would probably be better off just re-releasing them on VC, but I know people are going to continue to whine about it until they release Sinnoh remakes with Mega Evolution and Primal Reversion Arceus and Ash Greninja and whatever other nonsense kids are on about by then, so GF might give in and do it anyway.
    What's hilarious is that, based on date of release, KANTO is next in line, not Sinnoh! Whine about Kanto being "boring"/"overrated"/"overexposed" all you want, but nothing will change the fact that FRLG are older than DPP, so they're technically the ones that should be remade next.

    But, I don't want to see anymore remakes of any games. I never really liked the idea of remakes to begin with, and the VC has made them completely unnecessary. I'd much rather see sequels, and I can't believe that Sinnoh fans wouldn't also feel the same way.

    (The tradition with remakes has been to ignore 3rd versions in favor of paired games, so Sinnoh remakes would inevitably be DP retreads with little-to-nothing from Platinum. Even Sinnoh fans overwhelmingly prefer Platinum to DP, so I don't know why they would want a generic DP retread over a sequel, which would have far more potential.)

    Yeah, the console versions are super limited (And from what I've seen, the handheld releases aren't even close to the same games at that point). I always download a lot of CC as well, and spend a lot of time designing lots and sims. Sometimes I can relate a little too much to that sims meme that goes around from time to time. "Spend hours making family and house ; Spend 15 minutes actually playing them." That's not always me, but I enjoy the sandbox aspect of it a lot, and get carried away trying to creatively do things. I don't know that I have one particular favorite theme for CC though. I feel like I have a hard time finding good CC of 80s and 90s stuff, and that's something I like using when possible and fitting -- if for no other reason than my tendency to play vicariously.
    Shame you're into TS2 and not TS3, as they made a Stuff Pack for it that's right up your alley:

    Luckily, this site seems to have TS2 conversions of objects from the Stuff Pack:

    80s/90s stuff isn't easy to find for TS1 either, especially if you're looking for objects and not skins.
  14. TyHawk4501
    5 Days Ago 12:42 PM
    How are you today?
  15. TyHawk4501
    5 Days Ago 11:56 AM
    *TyHawk appears*

About Me

  • About Mateo
    Hey guys, I'm Mateo. I was the co-founder of the Skeetendo Inc. Hacking Group (before it was a community, when it was just me and Pyro). I'm still a huge fan of Gen II, and so I still enjoy playing and hacking those games. I'm currently working on a "Johto Legacy" series that continues the story of G/S/C that consists of the "Pokémon Christmas" hack, and an upcoming prequel called "Pokémon Spirits and Legends" (that currently has no thread here).
    Rom Hacking, Internetting, Cooking, The Sims 2, Music, Random things, Etc.
    Willow Creek, Sims 4
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    Lugia, Mewtwo, Zigzagoon, Eevee, Espeon, Umbreon, Suicune, Charmander
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    "I'm gonna, uh, demonstrate the hot moves..." - Flannery


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