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January 15th, 2011 10:15 AMJX Valentine
I'd hate to break it to you, but if you're going to post anything on this forum, you're going to get concrit on things you didn't ask for. It's sort of how reviewing works. :/ I'd suggest taking your own advice that you tried to give me a couple VMs back and just learn how to deal with it.
January 12th, 2011 8:27 PMJX Valentine
In that case, you're insulting not only every fanfiction writer but also every writer in general, and it's a little strange that you want to go after the craft at all. The idea that you're adhering to is a common misconception that a lot of young writers make in that it confuses the concept of themes with that of plot. A story is a lot more than the bare-bones structures you've mentioned, which is why not every story that follows what you claim to be the exact same formula is automatically popular based on genre or its underlying themes alone. While a lot of stories share similarities (because, yes, a lot of themes tend to be reused), this doesn't make every author a thief (because a good author would still find a way to bring something new and fresh to the table, regardless of limitations), and not every story has absolutely nothing new to bring to the table. After all, even if we do go by your logic, there had to have been a time when the basic themes were never done before, am I right? A new theme doesn't necessarily alienate an audience. It just depends on what the new theme is.
In order to be a good writer, this is really something you'll probably need to realize -- that a story is a lot more than its theme. You'll also want to think about its concept, that part of the story a lot of people tend to confuse for the plot. If you, for example, decide to write a story that's basically Pokémon without Pokémon, yes, some people will call you out on that, and you'll need to be prepared to handle that. Alternatively, you'll want to come up with a completely different concept that doesn't involve you explicitly taking the story of Pokémon and just removing any instance of the word Pokémon.
(Side note: Strangely, I can name a number of series that do a lot of things you've mentioned. Pokémon has its own currency, for example. H.P. Lovecraft's bread and butter are Eldritch Abominations. Sherlock Holmes short stories frequently spew out plot twists. And so on and so forth. It's really all in what the author intends on doing. Sure, there's such a thing as screwing things up royally, but there's ways to pull things like these off without actually alienating an entire audience.)
Either way, you'll want to avoid stating that it doesn't matter whether or not you're creative in the plot bunny thread, where the whole point of the thread is asking about whether or not your concept is particularly creative and potentially enjoyable. Because that's just counterproductive.
It also strikes me as a little odd that you're trying to claim that calling everyone in a forum a thief isn't going to be an insult that ends with you alienating your potential audience anyway, but hey. :/ However, I would like to say as a side note that if you really want to argue this point, I think I'll just end the conversation there because it's really become clear to me that you're not particularly interested in concrit.
January 11th, 2011 5:22 PMJX Valentine
The issue Azurne was having is also the point you're overlooking slightly. See, fanfiction authors do not claim any of the characters or settings as their own unless they've actually created a fan character or region. What you're doing is taking the basic premise of Pokémon and turning it into an original fiction -- basically, using the concept and calling it your own. While I said you could potentially still do something like that if you happened to add enough of your own creation to it to cause the reader not to notice what the source material was, Azurne and Bay both said that not everyone would be comfortable with that. In short, it's all in who's claiming what as their own idea.
Additionally, you still argued that over half of all fanfiction authors were also incapable of being original at all (the entire discussion of unoriginal plots), which really didn't help your case. If you wanted to defend your work, it probably would have been better to emphasize the parts where you were being original, rather than to label a large number of your potential audience as being uncreative themselves.
In other words, I'm still considering your words within the context, but the way you worded things would not have made you particularly popular. Thus, my advice is simply to be careful because, yes, the way you connect with other people on the board will affect how much and what kind of feedback you receive. Honey and vinegar, you know?
January 11th, 2011 2:48 AMJX Valentine
Actually, it's completely ignoring the "fan" part of the term, so it's not really a literal definition so much as only part of it. It's also, as a result, missing the point of fanfiction due to being overly simplistic, so it's comparable to calling a dolphin a "mammal that lives in the water." Unusual analogy, but the point is that on a very basic level, fanfiction seems that way. However, that's only part of the definition; the rest of it would make it clear that we're not, by any means, attempting to steal someone else's work. Yes, our work is based on someone else's, but it's both an expansion and an act of respect, not an attempt to plagiarize. In the plot bunny thread, you accused fanfiction writers of stealing, rather than of playing with canon. You've yet to deny this part, it seems, so you're actually talking about something slightly different (although I still stand by the idea that your definition doesn't encompass the presence of the term "fan").
Additionally, I was simply offering advice, considering it's looking like you're encountering quite a bit of resistance on the forum, and calling everyone else around you thieves (which you are by explicitly stating -- in the words I mentioned -- that fanfiction authors are stealing someone else's ideas) isn't a good way to get the connections you'll need for the feedback you're looking for. If you don't want my advice, then it's completely your choice to ignore me. I simply enjoy taking new members under my wing and offering unsolicited advice here and there if it seems like they could use it. In my open arrogance, I like to think of it as a kindness.
If you would like my advice, then I'd also like to further add that responding to constructive criticism with hostility (such as an attempt to flame me by saying that I "have skin so paper-thin that even still air burns it"... which actually makes me crack a little smile because of how ironic it is) is also not a good way to receive the feedback you're looking for on many online communities, especially this one (as you've probably noticed with the reactions some of our most level-headed reviewers have been giving you in the plot bunny thread). Wordy little sentence there, yes, but the basic point is the old cliché of you'll attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
Furthermore, if you'd like to discuss the definitions of the term "fanfiction" as academics and equals, you're certainly free to do so civilly. It's been awhile since I've had an entertaining conversation on the matter.
January 11th, 2011 1:59 AMJX Valentine
*motions to the very general definition of fanfiction you had just given a couple of VMs ago*
That and you mentioned in a post that all fanfiction was stealing setting and characters. This post was unfortunately deleted before I could get a screencap, but it still means that you said fanfiction = stealing, even if the statement was taken out-of-context. It doesn't matter if you were saying you're stealing as well. It's the fact that you're saying fanfiction is stealing (rather than a labor of love and respect for the original canon) that's potentially insulting.
January 10th, 2011 11:39 PMJX Valentine
Honestly, I could respond to the argument about fanfiction, but what either of us think it is would be a rather moot point, bluntly put. My point was that the writing community here is primarily a fanfiction community, so going into a forum like that and proclaiming that all fanfiction authors are stealing ideas from someone else is a lot like going into a PETA meeting and proclaiming that they're all a bunch of animal abusers. Even if you think you're right in the matter there, that still won't make you a very popular person with them. Given the fact that you've said that you need feedback in order to write, it's just not the best strategy to use because you'd be driving away the people who happened to see that. Either that, or you'd end up with negative reviews. Some critics, after all, are fairly vindictive.
With that being said, if you do want to find a good original fiction community, I've offered a few links in the plot bunny thread. It might be best to look over there; some of them even offer low-cost, legitimate publishing and communities full of writers who might have the same opinions about fanfiction.
January 10th, 2011 9:28 PMJX Valentine
Just wanted to offer up another piece of advice:
Don't go into a fanfiction community and say half the writers stole their plots/characters/settings, even if it's your own opinion. This is usually a good way to insult the entirety of your potential audience, which usually ends with you being particularly unpopular.
Of course, reviews tend to be a rarity on PC, so this is a moot point either way. At which point, I'd highly suggest uprooting and going to one of the original fiction outlets I'd linked to you in the plot bunny thread if you can't really write without getting feedback. While PC is an open community for writers, reviews tend to be highly lacking at the moment.
January 10th, 2011 1:10 PMAzurne
Taking this to VM because I'd rather not bog down the plot thread.Quote:I don't claim to know why you came to this thread, but you are the one person in it who has not helped at all. Even though everyone else also thought my idea wasn't that good. The difference being that everyone else posted concerning the merits (or lack thereof) of my actual idea, not my reasons for writing in the first place. They offered the help that I actually asked for. All you've offered is criticism of my methods and motivations for writing. Are you seriously surprised that I take issue with you making what are ultimately thinly veiled insults against me, personally?
What thinly veiled insults? Why would I bother insulting you when I don't know you?
Quote:Look at what you said one more time.
Quote:I still stand by my beliefQuote:my belief
Edited for clarification (hopefully).