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FAIRY-TYPE

wolf

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PlatinumDude

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If Fairy type also resists Dragon, then Azumarill just may become a good Kingdra check. If it gets a physical Fairy STAB, then it may not have to rely on Ice Punch to get past Dragons. Haxorus may be forced to run X-Scissor just to get past Gardevoir.
 
Dark Azelf

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^If its true, Fairy is IMMUNE to dragon js. :P

Hopefully it mitigates the dragon centralization and actually gives poison and steel types usage as those are super effective vs Fairy. However Garchomp will probably see usage as EQ still mauls most of them so yeah and Haxorus just because of its sheer power. Id expect it harms "less powerful dragons" who cannot boost their stats by +2 more however such as Lati@s, Kingdra and maybe Salamence depending on if it has enough power with DD <coverage move> to get past its fairy checks. Iron Tail mence and Flash Cannon Lati@s anyone lol ?
 
bashau

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Fairy is strong against dragon so dragon type is slowly become a nomarl type now instead of being a "god" type
i hope Meloetta retyped as Fariy/Physhic and Xerneas is Fairy/grass type
 

Munchlax11

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The new type will make a difference in the next generation. I can't be sure, but I'm worried that there may not be many Fairy typed mons that will be powerful enough to handle the dragons.
 
Xander Olivieri

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With the few that they showed so far, Fairy isn't even scratching the surface. It needs a lot more than the low powered Pokemon. Sylveon and Gardevoir may bump up a bit, but at the same time they now have more weaknesses to wittle them down.

We still need to see the full type chart for Fairy before anything big can be said, but just from what has been shown, Fairy won't change much of anything other than add a new attack to some other Pokemon to keep Dragons in check.

Not enough power to be considered a threat.
 

Pokedra

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This is the right move I feel.

Getting rid of Dragon centralization is always good, I do worry though if alot of Dragons will be forced into UU and RU like Kingdra/Mence/Nite/Flygon/Lati@s who rely so much on their Dragon STAB to get their job done. It's a step in the right direction but some Dragons need buffs to accommodate this big nerf imo. Now if they only fix weather and the power creep and we might have a solid metagame on our hands.
 
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wolf

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Pokedra said:
It's a step in the right direction but some Dragons need buffs to accommodate this big nerf imo.
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It's an exaggeration to say that dragons actually need a boon to make up for this nerf. I highly doubt dragons will be affected by this in a significant way, aside from possibly being the slight push that's needed to drop Haxorus (and maybe Hydreigon) in UU. Most of the best offensive types have a good chunk of Pokemon that are immune to their type. Water Absorb and Storm Drain for the Water-type, Flash Fire for the Fire-type, Ghost-types for the Fighting-type, Flying-types and Levitate for the Ground-type, and so on. Dragon is easily the best offensive type right at the moment, aside from Water and Fire (in their respective weathers), and this new Fairy-type will change very little. However, it will most certainly balance out the power of dragons some by giving players more methods of defeating them, along with Steel-types and revenge killers. Dragons still have unparalleled coverage; they continue to have the least amount of resistant or immune types offensively out of any other type sans Fairy.
 
Altairis

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I think it depends on what Fairy would be weak too. Like, if Fairy's weak to Poison/Steel, it might cause some dragons to drop, because there aren't many good offensive moves of those types. But if Fairy is weak to Ice, for example, then some Dragons might not be as affected, because some dragons can carry Ice type moves. I think we'll just have to wait and see.

Also, we don't know if Fairy is immune or just resistant to dragon yet, but I'm not really sure how it would affect dragons either way.
 
Mr. X

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Mass guessing on my part, but this is what I think the strengths/weaknesses will look for Fairy

Strong Dragon (We know this already), Weak Bug, Strong/Weak Dark (Unsure which - one or the other), Stong/Weak Ghost (One or the other, but I'm leaning towards strong), Strong/Null Psychic.

It honestly wouldn't suprise me if it was strong against both Ghost and Dark. Imo, it's about time we get something that would negate Sableye's and Spiritomb's 'hahahahaha nothing is super effective against me' typing.
 

Pokedra

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Wolflare said:
It's an exaggeration to say that dragons actually need a boon to make up for this nerf. I highly doubt dragons will be affected by this in a significant way, aside from possibly being the slight push that's needed to drop Haxorus (and maybe Hydreigon) in UU. Most of the best offensive types have a good chunk of Pokemon that are immune to their type. Water Absorb and Storm Drain for the Water-type, Flash Fire for the Fire-type, Ghost-types for the Fighting-type, Flying-types and Levitate for the Ground-type, and so on. Dragon is easily the best offensive type right at the moment, aside from Water and Fire (in their respective weathers), and this new Fairy-type will change very little. However, it will most certainly balance out the power of dragons some by giving players more methods of defeating them, along with Steel-types and revenge killers. Dragons still have unparalleled coverage; they continue to have the least amount of resistant or immune types offensively out of any other type sans Fairy.
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Actually having something that is immune to their moves is that great of a nerf. Will Specs Latios be as effective now there are Pokemon that can safety switch into it's Draco Meteor with zero drawbacks. This is theorymoning at it's finest but the main boon of Dragon types was always it's unparalleled coverage. Think if you removed Ghost and Steel types wouldn't Normal suddenly be excellent as an attacking type?

I agree with implementing the new type however I do think Dragons needs a buff to keep up, otherwise it's just going to be Normal+ in terms of offensive coverage and I'm not okay with that. Azumarill now perfectly counters Dragons like Kingdra,etc. Nerf them to keep them in line but not to the point where half of the Dragons become useless. Anyways everyone's always been ok with Dragon being generally the best type, I see no reason for that to change.
 
Anti

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Pokedra said:
Dragons need a buff etc.
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This strikes me as an overreaction. Plenty of attacking types get by just fine with immunities hampering them. Jolteon has done just fine for itself as an attacker despite (gen 4 examples alert) Pokemon like Flygon, Swampert, Hippowdon, etc. all being able to come in and absorb its STAB move. Yeah, it makes Jolteon less effective, but it's probably healthy that Jolteon has some decent checks outside of Blissey. I think the centralizing power of Dragons in the past has proven that. Since you basically had to run multiple Steel-types to compete with the likes of Latias and Salamence, the metagame got heavily centralized because, well, Pokemon as we knew it simply could not reliably keep up with those Pokemon in large part because of their offensive typing. Is it really such a bad thing if you can't spam Draco Meteor all over the place? Doesn't it force people to predict more, and isn't that a good thing? I don't think "we can't spam our Dragon moves early game" can lead you to a leap where they become useless or their effectiveness is severely compromised.

I think what's more likely is that Dragon-types become more like offensive Fighting-types, where the STAB has one annoying immunity (Ghost) and a few useful type resistances (Psychic and Flying especially) that keep it in line. I think it makes more sense than the Normal comparison largely because there just aren't that many Normal-types to abuse its neutral coverage. Dragon-types have way better stats and movepools across the board, have key resistances (and often immunities) that Normal-types don't, and are just better in a vacuum. And Normal's closest thing to Draco or Outrage is, what, Double-Edge? There are a lot of confounding factors beyond the typing itself that make Normal-types less than awesome. If you took Tauros, for example, and gave it Salamence's base stats, two 120+ BP STAB moves (one physical, one special) and Dragon Dance, it probably wouldn't be such a joke anymore.

...And this all assume that the Fairy-types will be good enough themselves to warrant usage and reliable enough checks to Dragons to make them worthwhile. I'd say it's likely but we don't know. (Not like it's bad to assume that, otherwise this is sort of a pointless thread lol and theorymon isn't a crime all the time -_- but yeah)
 

Pokedra

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Anti said:
This strikes me as an overreaction. Plenty of attacking types get by just fine with immunities hampering them. Jolteon has done just fine for itself as an attacker despite (gen 4 examples alert) Pokemon like Flygon, Swampert, Hippowdon, etc. all being able to come in and absorb its STAB move. Yeah, it makes Jolteon less effective, but it's probably healthy that Jolteon has some decent checks outside of Blissey. I think the centralizing power of Dragons in the past has proven that. Since you basically had to run multiple Steel-types to compete with the likes of Latias and Salamence, the metagame got heavily centralized because, well, Pokemon as we knew it simply could not reliably keep up with those Pokemon in large part because of their offensive typing. Is it really such a bad thing if you can't spam Draco Meteor all over the place? Doesn't it force people to predict more, and isn't that a good thing? I don't think "we can't spam our Dragon moves early game" can lead you to a leap where they become useless or their effectiveness is severely compromised.

I think what's more likely is that Dragon-types become more like offensive Fighting-types, where the STAB has one annoying immunity (Ghost) and a few useful type resistances (Psychic and Flying especially) that keep it in line. I think it makes more sense than the Normal comparison largely because there just aren't that many Normal-types to abuse its neutral coverage. Dragon-types have way better stats and movepools across the board, have key resistances (and often immunities) that Normal-types don't, and are just better in a vacuum. And Normal's closest thing to Draco or Outrage is, what, Double-Edge? There are a lot of confounding factors beyond the typing itself that make Normal-types less than awesome. If you took Tauros, for example, and gave it Salamence's base stats, two 120+ BP STAB moves (one physical, one special) and Dragon Dance, it probably wouldn't be such a joke anymore.

...And this all assume that the Fairy-types will be good enough themselves to warrant usage and reliable enough checks to Dragons to make them worthwhile. I'd say it's likely but we don't know. (Not like it's bad to assume that, otherwise this is sort of a pointless thread lol and theorymon isn't a crime all the time -_- but yeah)
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I'm not asking for a new 200BP Dragon move, I personally like this nerf. What I fear is they nerf them too greatly, I think just giving the Dragon-types one or two new coverage moves should be fine. They gain some new moves and have more checks to their primary nukes.

This doesn't take into account, Dragons have so few weaknesses and multiple resistances. Would Palkia be considered anywhere near as good as it is in Ubers without only a single weakness that it itself is strong against? Adding another weakness to a type that relies heavily on it resistances will hamper it greatly.

Dragon has pitiful super-effective coverage, that's what makes it different from Electric/Water/Fire, high-powered moves/high-coverage are the primary reason they can score KO's easily, hampering the former could have a large impact. Alas, we need to see the availability of the Fairy-type. These adding a type immune to their primary form of offense is a greater nerf then something like Water Absorb. I feel this argument is pointless because it's merely theory and all in all I agree with you.

Over-centralization needs to go but a balance should be struck. I'm merely hoping Fairy-types check Dragons rather then breaking them because they were always meant to be this more dominant and better type then the rest. Centralization will still occur even if Dragon's are nerfed anyway. People tend to go for the best.

tl;dr It's the right move, I just don't trust GameFreak to do what's right after that frothing mess that Gen V brought, #lolautoweather
 

Fire Flyy

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they will check dragons because you can easily stick a cb tar in front of little fairy type sylveon and clear up a sweep for old garchomp, with this im also implying that dragspam will probably be killed which i dont think is an entirely bad thing since dragspam v stall literally comes down to one prediction for the dragspam player; will magnezone be able to come in on skarmory, which are pretty ridiculous odds. on the other hand dragspam only has to maintain foresight vs offense and not let something like specstoed kill half their team off; basically it has to make sure that its killing at a higher rate for the endgame and that a scarfkelder isnt around to kill them, too. also i think we're all over-reacting to this type being a huge presence in OU, fairy may end up being a bad defensive typing in the end; already looks to be Scizor bait; if it's weak to dark then that's a huge dealbreaker, as is the type not being resistant to fighting [because you can just substitute dragspam for close combat spam], so in the end you might only see a few fairies in OU because the typing is so bad vs other types that it's not that viable, and you can still throw haxorus and friends at the opponent's team. probably would make living hell for the lower tier dragons though since there'd likely be a fairy on every low tier stall lol
 
Dark Azelf

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But why would you stick CB Tar infront of Sylveon (according to the link) Fairy is super effective against Dark Types ?_?

Also close combat spam is no where near as effective as dragon spam. It has alot more resists and immunities whilst dragon has....one resist and no immunities.

Also you should be running Shed Shell on Skarm, i feel you put yourself at a disadvantage against those sort of teams if you fail to do so. Its better to be safe than sorry. Even more so with ST Gothitelle.

Anyway those dragons with the ability to go +2 see: Garchomp and Haxorus will probably not be affected. Those who fail to be able to do so, see; Mence, Kingdra and Lati@s etc will be affected the most imo. For example, Fairy Azumarril now basically hard walls Kingdra and Mence. As i said with those they are either gonna have to receive some sort of additional coverage moves or use....Iron Tail/Poison moves lol. Even then that wont help with Azu, Mawile etc.
 
Xander Olivieri

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Dark Azelf said:
But why would you stick CB Tar infront of Sylveon (according to the link) Fairy is super effective against Dark Types ?_?

Also close combat spam is no where near as effective as dragon spam. It has alot more resists and immunities whilst dragon has....one resist and no immunities.

Also you should be running Shed Shell on Skarm, i feel you put yourself at a disadvantage against those sort of teams if you fail to do so. Its better to be safe than sorry. Even more so with ST Gothitelle.

Anyway those dragons with the ability to go +2 see: Garchomp and Haxorus will probably not be affected. Those who fail to be able to do so, see; Mence, Kingdra and Lati@s etc will be affected the most imo. For example, Fairy Azumarril now basically hard walls Kingdra and Mence. As i said with those they are either gonna have to receive some sort of additional coverage moves or use....Iron Tail/Poison moves lol. Even then that wont help with Azu, Mawile etc.
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Fairy isn't SE against Dark based on what we've seen. Gardevoir would have one shot Hydreigon if it was SE against both Dragon and Dark seeing as Focus Blast can One Shot Hydreigon. Based on the trailer, Fairy is normal damage against both Dark and Flying at best.
 

Pokedra

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Azumarill will become a potent Dragon check imo, It's actually pretty bulky naturally so Max HP / Def will ensure things like Flygon, Mence and Kingdra simply bounce off it while it can still smack them with a Huge Power-boosted Ice Punch. I doubt any of them will get Poison moves so they'll have to rely on unboosted moves to muscle their way through. CBFlygon deals like ~45% to it with STAB EQ.

Balloon Mawile will hard-counter Garchomp ;)
 

.Gamer

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Immunity seems dumb to me. I'd be okay with a resistance but immunity seems like overkill. This is just an off-the-cuff reaction. I still don't think it will get rid of dragon centralization, they are generally speaking some of the fastest and strongest attack mons with more often than not excellent typing. It will just move Fairy-type mons up the list in usage and you'll have stuff like Togetic (who better be a freaking fairy type I mean come on) in OU. You'll still have Scizor/Heatran/Garchomp and pals all being used too. It just adds one more thing that you have to look out for but can't possibly check with just 6 pokemon because there are already too many threats.
 
Dark Azelf

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XanderO said:
Fairy isn't SE against Dark based on what we've seen. Gardevoir would have one shot Hydreigon if it was SE against both Dragon and Dark seeing as Focus Blast can One Shot Hydreigon. Based on the trailer, Fairy is normal damage against both Dark and Flying at best.
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Where is this trailer ? Also actually no, Focus Blast usually doesnt OHKO Hydreigon as its rather bulky, depending on the evs of course. :x

Balloon Mawile will hard-counter Garchomp
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Fire Fang. :P

Immunity seems dumb to me. I'd be okay with a resistance but immunity seems like overkill.
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So does being able to 2HKO like 99% of the metagame with outrage/Draco. :\ I think this change will be for the better.

Now all they have to do is add more defensive mons, more spinners and nerf weather and we will have something in gen 6 that resembles balance.
 
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