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K1ngQu33n September 7th, 2012 5:07 PM

Rayquaza X and lugia ex strongest cards?
I have a Rayquaza X but don't have a lugia ex.
They both do 200 damage.
Do you guys think there the strongest cards?

donavannj September 7th, 2012 6:11 PM

In terms of the sheer power of the base damage of their attacks, I guess they are. But there are other factors that come into play when determining how strong a card is or isn't. One of those factors is energy efficiency for how much damage you do as well as what types of effects the attack has. Both Lugia ex and Rayquaza C Lv. X (yes, that's the card's full name - it's not just Rayquaza Lv. X) require 3 different types of energy to use those attacks, and getting all 3 of those into play can be hard. They also don't have a lot of HP, especially by today's card standards, so they can be pretty easily knocked out for prizes, and HP is another factor in how strong a card is. An example of a card that has solid HP and can attack very efficiently for very little energy is Gyarados from Stormfront. It can do up to 90 damage for no energy, provided you have 3 Magikarp in your discard pile, and it has 130 HP itself, which is not bad for a Stage 1 Pokemon by any means.

Personally, I'd argue that this Gyarados can be just as strong, if not stronger, than those other two cards, seeing as it can easily have Lugia ex and Rayquaza C Lv. X knocked out before either of those two cards have their attacks powered up, and the fact that it has more HP than either. There are many cards that can beat the setup speed and energy efficiency of Gyarados, though, because Gyarados needs some trainers to be able to setup so much damage so quickly.

Tanaki September 8th, 2012 6:37 AM

The strength of a card isn't particularly defined by the output of its attack.

Generally the strength of a card is backed by the support structure of the deck it's run in. Some pokemon can make it on their own, but normally you need support for the card to be at its strongest.

Lugia ex would've been a terrible card if it wasn't for Blastoise ex and holon's pokemon. Its attack needs wouldn't have been able to be met without the support of those cards and it would've been a simple novelty card.

Rayquaza C Lv.X is an example of where the attack cost brings the card down. WFPC for 200 is ridiculous. There was nothing in the SP format to make that attack happen. And sure, you don't discard the energy if you had no cards in hand, but the issue is that the format Rayquaza C Lv.X was that dropping your hand down to 0 cards would've been incredibly situational and almost impossible. The card was also weak to Garchomp C(or Dragonite FB), one of the most popular cards of that format. And Garchomp would've set up WAAAY before Rayquaza C ever would.

And besides, 200 damage will always be bittersweet. Any pokemon that has an attack like this normally has no other attack options, a ridiculous triple-type energy cost and often, coincidentally, have a weakness to very common competitive decks.

Lugia Legend was the most recent pokemon to be able to do 200 damage, but you had to have both halves of the card to play it. And on top of that, you still had that ridiculous attack cost.

In conclusion, I feel that there are no "Strongest" cards, because strength is determined by the format a card is in, and the deck it's played in. Because by the current Meta's standards, Stormfront Machamp would be the most broken card ever because it hits major decks for weakness and OHKO's EX's automatically and would win in 3 turns.

FurretFTW!!1! September 17th, 2012 1:30 PM

They actually are the hardest to attack with of the four Pokemon that I can think of that do 200 straight damage. Lugia Legend can attach Energy to itself with its Poke-Power and can be built around easily enough. Mesprit Lv.X only needs two energy to do 200 damage, but you also need Azelf Lv.X and Uxie Lv.X in play; however, it's manageable and a deck can be built around the strategy. Rayquaza C Lv.X and Lugia ex can be made to work in decks, but they require more effort to do their 200 damage.

Tanaki September 18th, 2012 3:47 AM


Originally Posted by FurretFTW!!1! (Post 7343014)
Mesprit Lv.X only needs two energy to do 200 damage, but you also need Azelf Lv.X and Uxie Lv.X in play; however, it's manageable and a deck can be built around the strategy. Rayquaza C Lv.X and Lugia ex can be made to work in decks, but they require more effort to do their 200 damage.

Setting up 3 Lv.X's would be a pain back then, since the one you leveled up would HAVE to be your active for the turn. And with only 90 HP Crobat G and Garchomp Lv.X would take out Azelf Lv.X to give your weakness back and Toxicroak G would lay waste to your deck. Or Gengar Lv.X would shuffle one back in and poltergeist you to death.

And Lugia ex worked because of Blastoise ex, and that was what made that deck top-tier. Holon's pokemon acted as a double rainbow, and with 2 water energy from Blastoise, you discarded 1 for the holon's energy, then you had all 3 for the attack.

But this thing is unequivocally the most broken card I've seen in a while:
Black Ballista: Discard 3 Energy attached to this Pokemon.

Say hello to our new Blastoise's BFFF. It's like the Black Kyurem from the next set we get. Except actually playable.

180 HP. Nothing resists him. Can get Eviolite or worse Crystal Wall to pump his HP up to 300. NOTHING can survive that kind of raw damage in this format without serious support.

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