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llll Link lllll October 3rd, 2012 9:11 AM

The games make it all about high levels and type advantage.
Hi there everyone,

I would like to say first that i love the Pokemon games i have great memories of my first ever one (blue) and i thought that black was very good indeed.

However too often for my liking battles are decided due to you hitting super effective hits or just because you pokemon is a higher level. This is completely different than in the TV series as we are told that the bond with your pokemon makes it stronger and often the gm leaders that expect ash to use the type advantage are able to counteract it with a good strategy.

So my main point is that if you added in so extra features such as "counter attacking" or being able to use you moves on the environment around you for different effects, maybe even a bar that shows the bond between you and your pokemon (the better the bond the better the pokemon) the battles would become much more than just selecting your strongest attack or occasionally putting the foe asleep.

This is just my view! i would love to hear what you guys think :D

Are there Oceans in Space? October 3rd, 2012 1:30 PM

I think that'd be pretty cool, albeit kinda hard to implement. But yeah the show does conflict with the game mechanics, but it's too be expected. They try to keep it as close as possible to the game mechanics, but yeah there's got to be that human/friendship element in the show.

I always wondered why "dodge" was never an option haha.

llll Link lllll October 4th, 2012 4:08 AM

I agree very hard to implement but not impossible..

Dodge would add a different dimension you could have a fatigue bar to stop you using it all the time in battle!

Omaeka October 4th, 2012 7:49 AM

When the games eventually hit consoles, or as the Handheld consoles start to evolve more (PS Vita for example, next DS has to have at least Wii power surely) I think we'll start to see more of this kind of thing.

Yuzuru Otonashi October 7th, 2012 12:07 PM

I... don't really see the point of this. I mean, it's a game. They're pieces of data. That's never going to change. There's already a "bonding" system, it just matters more to some than others. It's possible to get an emotional attachment to them, yes, but they can't get attached to you until Artificial Intelligence is used in the games, which seems a bit of a... waste.

The game has a fun system of play for an RPG, which is the appeal. That, and nostalgia. While I'd love a "realistic" Pokemon game, I don't think I'd ever like it more than the original.

Also, I don't really understand why you're citing the anime's style of battling (or the manga(s), if you went there, at some point), when it's based off of the games, not vice-versa.

droomph October 7th, 2012 1:19 PM

Well, the anime and manga's style of battling is a lot more interesting and deep tbh, not just mashing "A" for an hour :P If we could make a friendship with a Pokémon more than just "friendship level", like in the Anime, it would make it quite interesting and fun.

I honestly like the differentiation of "fatigue" and "health". It gives it a lot more feelings imo, not just realistic. You might even feel compassion to a Pokémon you've worked a lot with "dodge", though it's just a piece of data.

Yuzuru Otonashi October 7th, 2012 1:41 PM

I said you could feel for the Pokemon. I'm not denying that. It just can't feel back without higher artificial intelligence, which would be wasted on a game like this until it's something really cheap to use, which should be after this franchise finally kicks the bucket.

A dodge option is an awful idea. Evasion is already a cheap ass way of doing things, so being able to dodge even more is, most likely, a bad idea. Not to mention, at a certain point, you could just waste their PP for turns on end. If you want something like this, just use Protect or Detect. Same basic idea, but without the level of bull.

Have you ever played a game where fatigue is a thing? It does nothing but make games extremely tedious. It doesn't add more feeling, it makes it so that you constantly have to worry if you're going to have an issue with that unit/character/etc.

The appeal of the game is how it's set up. Yes, you could eventually make an anime-style one, but what we have now is a tried and true method which often has childhood memories attached.

Blue Emerald October 7th, 2012 3:29 PM

I dunno about having battles being more like the anime. I always felt like the anime was so. . . conveniently written, if that makes sense. But then, I feel like a lot of combat-based anime where special powers are involved were always kind of conveniently written so the plot could progress in a certain way (Yu-Gi-Oh being the biggest offender of this ever). I mean, sure, it's the writers' decision as to how their characters make progress toward their ultimate goal, but sometimes it's always done in a way that makes it much too obvious that the writer has clearly applied some degree of a deus ex machina so that their protagonist/antagonist suddenly has the upper hand. (Thunder Armor, anyone?)

It's like how Ash can be losing to a tough Pokemon, not getting a single hit in, and suddenly his Pokemon will use one attack that would otherwise normally not do much damage to the opponent, and instantly knock it out. Also, things like Ghost attacks hitting Normal-types and Will-O-Wisp being an actual attack are all done for the sake of the plot. Contest battles in the anime were always a major offender of this; like one good dodge can cause someone to lose a lot of points, and yet a really good combo attack by the opponent would cause May/Dawn to lose a minuscule amount of points when she's already so close to losing all her points anyway. And let's be honest, dodging attacks should be second nature to a Pokemon, as it is in the games; they shouldn't be so dumb as to wait for the Trainer to tell them to dodge in the first place. =P

Anime plot mechanics aside, the game works the way it does for the sake of being a strategy game, and having super-effective attacks is no different to how other RPGs have elemental magic systems where certain monsters are vulnerable/resistant/immune to certain spells. And BW already pretty much confirmed that attacks miss because the Pokemon dodged them. ;)

Rothometapratis October 7th, 2012 4:37 PM

nice idea this friendship bond factor in battles

MightyHeracross October 7th, 2012 6:38 PM

agreed. That is why I think I enjoyed the first generation games more. I was younger, so I didn't check on bulbapedia to see when my guy would learn a new move or I didn't go on youtube to see how to get out of a cave. I didn't grind my team or train certain types to beat certain gyms. I figured it out. FOr B2 W2, Im not going on the computer AT ALL. I am going to play it just like i did when i was younger :)

llll Link lllll October 8th, 2012 4:29 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Although i think some of the main issues have been misses probably my fault :)

The point of the post was to find out if anyone would like a battle system with more dimensions to it and i only used the anime as an example of better battling. While i agree that the Pokemon RPG as it is now is a strategy game everyone has to admit that going threw the game we often just use our same strongest attack to blow away the foe. Even Final Fantasy (one of the oldest strategy games) has recently changed their battle style.

Wouldn't it be nice to have to think about how to defeat the Pokemon stood in front of you?

I like the friendship idea personally, for example, If you raise your Pokemon quickly force it to battle tired then it could level up faster but will be unhappy with you. However if you keep your Pokemon happy by praising it after battle then it will level up more slowly but could gain extra benefits (eg, hidden moves, when most Pokemon faint it could get back up with small amount of health and carry on because its determined to help you).

I also like it in the anime when they use their surroundings to attack i think that would be a great way to break some battles from A bashing stalemates. EG using thunderbolt on the ground.

I don't think a game like this would be "tedious" it would just be a slight learning curve.

Kanade Otonashi October 8th, 2012 9:02 AM


Originally Posted by Yuzuru Otonashi (Post 7365019)
Have you ever played a game where fatigue is a thing? It does nothing but make games extremely tedious. It doesn't add more feeling, it makes it so that you constantly have to worry if you're going to have an issue with that unit/character/etc.

If you have EVER played Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, you should know this. There was maybe, /2/ times where the Fatigue system in that game meant something besides "OH HEY I CAN'T RUN NOW STUPID GAME, GUESS I BETTER WALK" or "I HAVE TO WAIT, OH WELL"

It wasn't fun, it was tedious. It wasn't hard, it was time consuming. If I was being honest, which I will be, the Fatigue system kept it from being my favorite Zelda game.

Now, let's transfer it to Pokemon! Let's take a game where the AI already can hit you 5 times with multi attack moves everytime, randomly crit you after you heal, AND make it to where one attack that would have done over half their damage the first time do only a quarter the next, and add a system that most likely wouldn't make a dent on the AI and instead pull you down into the mud.

Sounds wonderful to me. :'D

imevil October 8th, 2012 9:46 AM

pokemon conquest had this, not only battling the more time in general you had with your pokemon the better they became.

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