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Gdamatov77 October 26th, 2012 8:57 AM

Questions about Magikarp
So I have been racking my brain on this since the first time I heard about the true power of Magikarp's Flail.

I am very understanding that Splash is completely useless of a move, but I was wondering about Flail, which according to bulbapedia states the Maximum it can do is 200. There are many Pokemon that can reach much higher than 200 HP. So how can Flail be useful enough if the opponent's Pokemon can just survive the attack and hit you for your last 1 HP right after?

Is Magikarp truly powerful enough to spend time getting and not evolving, or are all these people trolling me successfully? A legitimate answer would be great because Flail seems legit, but it seems it works well only with Baton Pass.

Gunter's Mew October 26th, 2012 9:59 AM

You seem to misunderstand the term "power", it doesn't mean it does flat damage. Only a few moves (Dragon Rage (40 damage), Sonicboom (20 damage), etc) does flat damage like that

It is a physical attack meaning your attack stat effect it.

Gotten from Smogon:

Damage Formula = (((((((Level × 2 ÷ 5) + 2) × BasePower × [Sp]Atk ÷ 50) ÷ [Sp]Def) × Mod1) + 2) ×
CH × Mod2 × R ÷ 100) × STAB × Type1 × Type2 × Mod3)

In short: your stats, opponent stats, typing are all factors. The power is only how powerful the move is itself. Pikachu and Raichu for example are the same beside their base stats. Matter of fact Raichu don't even learn moves where Pikachu learn until around Lv50. So using a Thunder Stone too early may screw you up. Let say Pikachu learn Thunderbolt, the attack will do more damage when you evolve him as Raichu have higher stats though the power of the attack itself doesn't change.

To answer your question if Magikarp is worth using. I honestly have no clue. I just couldn't help but to post after I saw that you thought the game work that way. I know he can be good enough to defeat a team of legendary Pokes but I also know there are crazy amount of counters for him like sandstorm.

Gdamatov77 October 26th, 2012 12:45 PM

So that means if I invest 252 EV into Attack, and give him say an Adamant Nature, Flail can be deadly? And do more than the 200 Damage?

PlatinumDude October 26th, 2012 1:07 PM


Originally Posted by Gdamatov77 (Post 7386289)
So that means if I invest 252 EV into Attack, and give him say an Adamant Nature, Flail can be deadly? And do more than the 200 Damage?

You're still missing the point. Flail's base power increases the lower the user's HP is (max 200 BP). And base power doesn't equal the amount of HP damage done (Flail doesn't always inflict 200 HP damage; the damage it does is based on the damage formula posted above). Base power is just a number based on how powerful a move is, i.e. Surf has a base power of 95; Slash has a base power of 70, etc.

The only moves that inflict fixed amounts of damage are Sonicboom (which always inflicts 20 HP damage), Dragon Rage (which always inflicts 40 HP damage), Night Shade and Seismic Toss (which always inflict damage equal to the user's level; i.e. if a level 50 Pokemon uses the move, it always inflicts 50 HP damage).

Zeffy October 26th, 2012 2:31 PM

It's useful to note that things such as these are often called gimmicks. They don't always work, but when it does the hard work really pays off. Magikarp is too weak to pull off a successful Flail gimmick though. :(

wolf October 26th, 2012 3:04 PM


Originally Posted by Gdamatov77 (Post 7386129)
Is Magikarp truly powerful enough to spend time getting and not evolving, or are all these people trolling me successfully?

They're trolling you. I'm unsure whether or not you're trolling as well. But anyway...

Like Zeffy said, Magikarp is simply too weak to pose a threat regardless of what it uses. Magikarp only has 10 base Attack, and even a 200 base power move isn't going to help it much. I'll post a damage calculation to give you an example.

252+ Atk Magikarp Flail vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 96-113 (31.78 - 37.41%) -- 90.8% chance to 3HKO

I chose Latios because it has 80 base HP/Def, which is not too high but not too low. Still, Latios is quite fragile and Magikarp only 3HKOes it with a max powered Flail. Even a Lucario 2HKOes Latios with Close Combat, and that's taking into account the Fighting resist.

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 150-177 (49.66 - 58.6%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO

Not to mention it would be difficult getting Magikarp down to 1 HP safely when practically everyone uses Stealth Rock and/or Sandstorm. Simply put, it isn't going to work. I doubt it would work even against the worst of players.

Also, use this calculator for damage calculations.

Gdamatov77 October 27th, 2012 10:32 AM

Thank you very much Wolflare. I wasn't sure whether these people claiming Magikarp was powerful were trolling or not.

And the videos seemed legit but I guess I was gullible. Thanks for letting me know before I invested in EV Training a Level 100 Magikarp rather than a Level 100 Gyarados. Which btw, I do have a moveset I intend on giving to a Gyarados.

It is good to know some people are willing to be honest about the Magikarp joke for people like me. I owe you bro.

dragonnathan025 October 30th, 2012 10:02 AM

No, the video was legit. Only thing is, you have to have a team completely dedicated to the Magikarp sweep, setting up with Baton Pass, etc. The only reason people do stuff like that is because they feel like trolling, like with the Sunkern sweep.

Besides, using a common Ghost-type, like Chandelure, would destroy that team, because it is immune to the whole reason they made that team.

So, no, the point is to troll, but if you put your mind to it, it's possible. Just... don't do it.

imevil November 16th, 2012 8:09 PM

Magikarp would need 252 ev in attack, +6 attack (from pass) then 1hp, so yeah don't try it. He has terrible stats and there are other NFE's that can do good damage at 100% health

roosterman November 17th, 2012 7:41 PM

magikarp can be deadly but you have to get everything just right, i would give him a low defense and a focus sash then have a pokemon max out speed and attack then baton pass it to magikarp so he can take the hit, hang on with his focus sash, and take it home!

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