Thread: Sixth
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Old July 9th, 2009 (4:03 PM).
Venia Silente's Avatar
Venia Silente Venia Silente is offline
Worrisome, but also Charming
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: behind that truck
Gender: Male
Nature: Timid
Posts: 524
Thanks, Dagzar and Sparkling Dragon for reviewing. Remember to claim your cookies later. Thanks for explaining the thing about indirect questions, SD, I had not noticed I was having quite some troubles with that.

Now, as to answer the reviews and explain some things that may have been left pending:

You're right, people, in that it is Lileep/Cradily who brings to us this perspective. The way the narration is performed, SD, states that it is a Lileep who is born, but if you read carefully the first paragraphs in "Human", it is a Cradily whom the human speaks to: a hidden statement that the Pokémon has evolved. That may have been the reason you were confused with the neck tentacles, SD: Cradily's tentacles extend from the base of the neck, whereas Lileep's radiate (sp?) from the mouth membrane. I may have to reword the description later, but I am happy you had no further trouble getting the picture.

I tried to make a point in that for those savvy enough the description up to "Touch" would be enough; otherwise "Human" kinda settles some practical description for both the speaker and the human.

Task #1, then: recheck the strength of description, JIC.

About the coloquialism, SD, I'll try to fix that: maybe I let myself grow too much in the "directness" of the description. Also I'd expect any creature to have a certain understanding of filiar relations enough to grasp the idea of an "Uncle", the more considering that Cradily has been around by the time he makes that statement. As for "weird", I'll definitively correct that. I have to look for another word.

Actually, now that I think about it, maybe you people would find more realistic a "soldier"-like approach. He was fighting a war after all, and he was not exactly in the commanding positions.

The colloquialism can stay later in the story as Lileep(Cradily) becomes more used to its new environment, but now I share the opinion that I introduced it too soon.

Task #2, then: remove colloquialism. Explore a more strict or frugal way of expression.

I kinda spent my creativity (of which I don't exactly have much) in the war flashback, since I wanted it to sound very vividly and at the same time very natural and apalling to Cradily. Some of it will be explored later.

About the Trainer naming Lileep, you are right SD, the problem is that I forgot to state that Gyarados doesn't know that. She only knows Lileep was given that name. I am pleased that you liked the aspect of Gyarados' personality I explored, although I feel is kinda cliché...

I also took note of the slipped "to"s and "if"s and will address them when I start reworking the matter of the indirect questions. I'll do more research on it to make sure that I a doing it wrong right next time, and thanks for making these mistakes stand out SD.

Now, on descriptions, I'll take advice and rework those of both Electabuzz and Vigoroth. I didn't expect anyone to recognize Vigoroth anyway since I somehow found a lot of trouble to describe him - I'm more experienced in describing bug-like or reptile-like creatures... I can't believe I was so vague with the description and forgot that Zangoose is very much alike in body build.

Task #3, then: improve descriptions of other Pokémon.

Your biggest problem seems to be indirect questions. I can't help you too much rules-wise, but I can show you what they should be.
Believe me or not, it seems my actual greatest problem is the wrong use of commas as you've seen. At least the indirect questions gave me a twitch or two and I can work better with your notes, but it looks like I just can't spot my wrong commas whatever I do. So thanks for spotting these too.

Task #4, then: work indirect questions.
Task #5, then: do F***ING something with my commas!

To discuss more on the plot and setting now...

The one thing that threw me was Lileep using Energy Ball (since they learn it at level 50), but then I realized Lileep was fighting in the war between Kyogre and Groudon so it would probably be at a pretty high level or something like that.
Yes I did have trouble with that too. See, a reasonably low-leveled Lileep has access to Astonish, Acid, Constrict and breeding moves. Confuse Ray was a special circumstance. However I realised that given the nature of the fossilization process I could try and work my way out with a sensible approach: Lileep's ancestor was indeed fighting in a war. When he died, his body may have preserved genetic information that would allowed the reconstructed Lileep, which is essentially a clone, to "figure out" some things he can do; to make this even more realistic I decided to portray Energy Ball as a very slow and tiring move for him and then put up Confuse Ray as a sort of "inextricable surprise".

I can only hope it makes sense. I took a more scientific approach to cloning, instead of the idea of a "fossil revivification". No Phoenix Down/Max Revive/magical revivification, just a sort of biological reconstruction. I was inspired by The Fifth Element but I'd rather forget that now...

Uxie whut? And that should probably be a semicolon, and I don't think you need the comma after 'hide'. Or maybe you do. I'm no expert.
Uxie all the way. I decided it was a nice touch given the nature of the story. I actually disagree with the comma this time, but since I'm not exactly trusting myself for that kind of examination I'll ask further. :D

What was that suction attack, by the way? Was it Constrict, something else, or just improvisation on Lileep's part?
It was some improvisation yes. I figured out I couldn't use something like Astonish when Vigiroth is actually in a frenzy and any move regarding with TMs or breeding felt like a no-go. So I decided to have Lileep do what it is simply natural to its real-life counterpart.... :D

Though, the one thing that bothers me is Lileep living in water and being under Kyogre’s rule. Lileep is a rock / grass type, so wouldn’t it be more suited for a land environment?
Now, about that question I should probably relish in my research do a little explaining. When I decided to go ahead with Lileep for this work (it was originally intended to be Shieldon), I had to do some research on crinoids who are (were) the real-life counterparts of Lileep-like creatures. Some Wikipediaing and Brittanicaing showed me that these creatures were akin to starfish in a similar way algae are similar to basic (land) plants. Then I researched their motion and nutrition and came to the conclusion that a Rock/Grass typing for Lileep does hold some scientific sense, if taken with the liberties the Pokémon world has, in the same way Lileep's fossil partner Anorith, derived from real-life prehistoric shrimp creatures, has a Rock/Bug typing; even with both of them being sea creatures, it is humans who establish the typing and they would do so after observing cellular structures, systemic abilities and other elements that are comparable to normal (land) Grass and Bug types and henceforth may act the same and react the same way to damage.

For example, consider how Grass-types would be expected to have a plant-like cellular structure that, seem from our RL world, would allow them to store and process energy, and in particular their typed energy, at individual cellular level; whereas Fire-types are expected (and stated as) to have a "dedicated" Fire/Energy organ or sac. The same way, Lileep's and Anorith's means of motion is much closer to the stereotype of Grass-types (stems, cirria and the such) and Bug-types (multiple legs, longitudinal body symmetry) than, let's say, Water types. Looking back to "before" the fossilization process one would expect Lileep's and Anorith's ancestors to have had a natural typing of Water/Grass and Water/Bug, respectively. The Rock type may be a result of the (de)fossilization process or because of natural hardening (they fought God wars you know), but I decided to forgo that exploration to avoid unnecessarily complicating matters.

Compare, by the way, Shieldon and Aerodactyl's particular type combinations and RL inspirations.

Also, Bulbapedia says Lileep is shown to be able to move out of water, but since I've never seen the episode I can only figure out from their natural behaviour in water and use the "they're Pokémon after all, hey are supposed to be awesome" approach to stretch it further enough with some level of plausability.


Enough with the pseudo-Pokémon-scientific mumbo jumbo! I hope noe of you were bored to death with my explaining, I just wanted to make clear that I am not trying hat-rabbits, ass-pulls or anything of that kind of nature.

All in all, I thank you both for taking the time to review and being patient enough to made clear what you liked, what you didn't and why. I'm working on these issues and I will of course continue this story.

It may be worth mentioning that the first post almost broke the character limit; if I am to improve descriptions or something that lengthens the chapter, it's most likely I'll be moving the Instinct section to the next post before posting new material.

Thanks for all the recommendations and the trust.

Venia Silente' - Consulting Worldbuilder
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one day.

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