I personally think that manipulation and dante were feeding off eachother's words there. Lets face it, english isn't his first language and he has a few problems communicating. Don't get me wrong his english is mucho mejor than my spanish, but he still has some problems communicating. I think there were some misunderstandings, and all dante is saying is he wants a vote by the people, and not by representatives. At least, that's what I got from his messages. Also dante, I get where your comming from with supporting the time and effort someone put in their hack, but I could spend lots of time making a lot of tiles that lookede horrible. does that make my graphics better than someone who left things the same? I don't think so. The fact is that the people here look at the output rather than the input in time and effort. If somebody can pull off great graphics by making thier own tiles, all the better, but people (the judges) thought that in the end, frosbite's tileset was better. I agree with you that we should have a vote by the members where there aren't judges though.