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Old June 21st, 2011 (9:22 PM). Edited June 21st, 2011 by Gymnotide.
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Gymnotide Gymnotide is offline
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Quote originally posted by Butterfree-Charizard:
Atheism is saying this no chance of there being a god, where as agnostic leaves the possibility of there being a god, you can't really be both, because if you are then your just agnostic.

Agnosticism is basically saying that you can neither confirm or deny the existence of any deity.

Atheism is denying that there is any deity in existence.

I see what you mean though.
Atheist agnostic means that you do not personally believe in the existence of god(s), but you are willing to hear any supporting claims that they do exist. Theist agnostic means that you believe in the existence of god(s), but you are open to ideas that they do not exist. The point being: agnosticism isn't its own thing, per se.

Gnosticism (not Gnosticism; only capitalized as per grammar) is an idea that floats in between atheism and theism and only serves to describe either one.

With the stuff we're discussing in this thread, it's necessary to understand that we're effectively dealing with three (or more, if I deem necessary later on) different gradients. Since the first is least related to your post, I'll spoiler it.

Antireligious -- Secular -- Irreligious -- Spiritual -- Religious
  • Antireligion is when a person downright states the negative impact of religion (not deities, but those end up being drawn into the fight in the end anyway).
  • Secularity is when a person believes that religion should be practiced separately (though religious individuals may be secular too).
  • Irreligion is when a person is apathetic toward religion as a whole.
  • Spirituality is when a person believes in spiritual forces, but not to the degree of religion. Spirituality is a personal thing.
  • Religion is the incorporation of spirituality into humanity. When spiritual becomes ingrained in community (mass ritual, etc.), it becomes religion.

Atheist -- Theist
  • Atheists do not believe in the existence of god(s).
  • Theists believe in the existence of god(s).

Gnostic -- Agnostic
  • Gnostics are sure of their belief; not open to discussion.
  • Agnostics are unsure of their belief; open to evidence that proves / disproves.

One person may fall into any category of these three gradients (and almost never to a definitive location; people may fall in between some ideas).

Also, stealing this from the link HarrisonH posted, but I think it's definitely useful to be in this thread:


"I want to tear myself from this place, from this reality, rise up like a cloud and float away, melt into this humid summer night and dissolve somewhere far, over the hills. But I am here, my legs blocks of concrete, my lungs empty of air, my throat burning. There will be no floating away."

Khaled Hosseini

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whoever disabled my signature:
my signature is not even close to 300px tall.
i dont understand why it was disabled.