Thread: [Discussion] Sex.
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Old December 30th, 2011 (03:28 AM).
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twocows
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Writing this at 6:30 am, might be a little nonsensical, I dunno.

Let me start off by saying that I'm not a social planner or politician or whatever. What I'm trying to do is create a discussion about the issue. People aren't acknowledging this as a problem, let alone discussing a solution. I'm trying to propose something that would at least work and solve the main problem, even if it's not practical to implement. A proof of concept, if you will.

Also, this isn't just about sex. I think that anyone should be able to apply for adult status under the law and, provided they show they're ready for it, obtain that status some way. The government thinks we're ready to have sex at 16, die for our country at 18, and get drunk at 21. Why? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Quote originally posted by Scarf:
If I may step in and give one: consent.

Consent doesn't have to be a complex issue, but it can be tricky sometimes. First, there is basic ignorance around the topic. Some people don't understand that a person who is intoxicated or unconscious can't give consent. Then there are instances where how consenting a person is changes over the course of an encounter. On the whole topic of people having sex when they don't want to you have instances where someone may not necessarily want to have sex or want to as often as their partner but may feel they have to in order to maintain the relationship. In a case like the last example you're talking about all kinds of power dynamics through a prism of sex.

The point is that it's important that someone knows how to navigate through these potential issues or else you risk someone being taken advantage of over misunderstandings and miscommunication (or worse, from a willful act). Or someone could get their feelings hurt, which isn't as serious, but it's still worth consideration. It's complex because you can't be taught how to do all that.
I'll grant intoxication, but that's hardly complex. As for the rest, it seems pretty simple to me: yes means yes, no means no. All the stuff about relationship dynamics doesn't matter; same rule applies. It wouldn't be any different for adults.

Quote originally posted by Kura:
Honestly.. that's a confusing question for me.. like.. what isn't complex? The physical motions of sex? It's still complex to me, like I said. Arousal, mutual desire, confidence, peer pressure, pain, consequences, consent, anxiety, body image, the social aspect of sex such as rumors, etc. god the list goes on.. rather.. what do you think ISN'T complex so I can try to understand you.
I'll give you that social dynamics can complicate things (you could have just said that's what you were talking about to begin with), but I still think it's unfair to prevent two consenting individuals from having sex based on that alone. And I was hoping that the process of getting a permit that I talked about earlier would be rigorous enough to separate people who may have been coerced into it.

Quote:
Either way I don't know how someone else can deem you mature or not for a permit. I mean.. even with physical checkups, doctors diagnose you with different things with the same symptoms.. and psychologists are expensive. What kid at 13/14 will have that sort of money for a psychological evaluation and then spend more money to get the permit filed and printed? How is that feasible? I get that it has good intentions in that you may be screening people who are ready.. but how could you control people who don't have permits from having sex?
You're right, I guess. It would be nearly impossible to implement without at least a bit of tax money and there's not a chance in hell of taxpayers paying for something like that. But the point is, there has to be a better solution than the one we have now. I think my idea is a step in the right direction, even if I don't have the political know-how to make it work. I think individual rights should not be granted at an arbitrary age and that's the important idea here. There needs to be a discussion about this at the very least.

Quote originally posted by Amachi:
Whoa. Asex permit? Seriously? Doesn't the notion of government issued sex-permits seem ridiculous to you? Why should they have any control over your access to sex?
It's more like a "permission" thing that becomes irrelevant once you're 16. I think it's a fair trade to require evaluation of people who want special privileges before the legal limit. The important thing is letting people below the arbitrary age have some way of showing they're mature enough to handle adult responsibilities.

Quote:
What is "mature enough"?
A stringent list of questions would be asked to get an idea of the situation surrounding the request for adult status.

Quote:
The lack of face to face is also a negative, since anyone could fill in the appropriate form and send it in on behalf of a young teenager. Never mind that you won't necessarily avoid bias that way anyway.
The evaluation would still be performed live in a standardized facility. The two sides just wouldn't see each other.
Quote:
Is there an age restriction on when the evaluation can be taken?
No, though there would need to be some way to screen out people who were obviously not ready to save on funds.

Quote:
The whole idea just makes things needlessly more complex. Just lower the AoC laws. If someone wants to have sex, they'll do it, regardless of the laws anyway.
The problem of an arbitrary limit still exists. The problem with laws in general is that you're trying to ascribe arbitrary rules to something as complex as human psychology and behavior (in this case, maturity). This is one case where I feel it has a real negative impact on nearly everyone at some point. I may not have the best solution, but the important thing is that I think there needs to be a dialogue on it, and it's something that doesn't even get discussed because politicians are too worried about their reputations.

Quote:
All this would do is create more trouble for people and more bureaucracy for the government to waste money and time on.
Like I said, I think the most important thing is to talk about the issue and get some ideas up. Most people don't even acknowledge this as a problem, but it definitely causes some very real harm.
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