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Old February 7th, 2012 (04:40 PM). Edited February 7th, 2012 by Dark Azelf.
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Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
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Quote originally posted by TheBowsinator:
You can't compare ho-oh to volca when considering the SR weakness. Ho-oh's stats more than make it up, which is why he even does so good in ubers. Volca's stats do not make up the stealth rock weakness; pretty much one more attack and it's dead.

Why dont they make up for its stats ? Ho-Oh cant outrun the whole metagame, Ho-Oh doesnt get a stat boosting move outside Calm Mind. Volc has better resistances and more of them. o_o

And rock types ARE specially bulky in sand, which is a very common weather. Pretty much rain and sand screw volca over.

Yeah the few viable ones, plus as i said Dug is common on sand teams to beat basically all of Volcs checks which includes Tyranitar so good luck keeping sand up.

lets back up our statements with damage calcs please


252SpAtk Swarm Volcarona (+SAtk) Fire Blast in Sun vs 0HP/4SpDef Gyarados (Neutral): 49% - 58% (165 - 195 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 26% chance to 2HKO. <--- Not guaranteed 3hko at all, thats more often than not a 2hko and thats unboosted...lol.

252SpAtk Swarm Volcarona (+SAtk) Fire Blast in Rain vs 0HP/4SpDef Gyarados (Neutral): 16% - 19% (55 - 66 HP). Guaranteed 7HKO. <--- So we need to run things like Gyarados in the rain....i see where this is going.. :/

252SpAtk +1 Swarm Volcarona (+SAtk) Fire Blast in Sun vs 0HP/4SpDef Gyarados (Neutral): 74% - 87% (247 - 291 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. <--OHKO with rocks up, yay.

252SpAtk +1 Swarm Volcarona (+SAtk) Fire Blast in Rain vs 0HP/4SpDef Gyarados (Neutral): 25% - 29% (83 - 98 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO. <---See previous @ Gyarados in rain.

252SpAtk +1 Swarm Volcarona (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 0HP/4SpDef Gyarados (Neutral): 49% - 58% (165 - 195 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 26% chance to 2HKO. <---I doubt neutral weather will ever be the case, after all Volc is the posterboy of sun teams and who would run no weather @ volc team.

No. +1 fire blast does NOT KO without rocks up. Though rocks are commonly up. <--- So why are you trying to use it as a Volc isnt uber argument when i can quite easily say "but it removes those Volc checks" lol. Double standard ?

I didn't calc other pokemon, but compare gyardos's bulk to dragonites. It will obviously do less damage.

76.8% - 90.4% lol

Though it would KO salamence. Terrakion does not need a scarf btw. It can take the hit all day and just counter with stone edge. Also, who said that sun will be up 100% of the time.

0/0 Terra takes 83.9% - 98.8% from +1 Fire Blast in sun. Shaky consider thats pretty much a OHKo with any prior damage, even SR.

Also, note that was FIRE BLAST. Fiery Dance is the more commonly used alternative, and if it isn't set up, lol it wont do anything. <---Fire Blast is better as shown by these calcs, Fiery Dance is far too weak. And really ? "If it isnt set up" is a bad argument. It has Quiver Dance on the set for a reason.

Gyara easily revenges with waterfall. Lets check out the other pokemon you said weren't checks. <---Yeah it revenge kills how when its OHKO'd with Rocks up ?

Also, that was non-bulky gyara. Here's max HP gyarados, +1, and in Sun (its pretty common)

252SpAtk +1 Swarm Volcarona (+SAtk) Fire Blast in Sun vs 252HP/0SpDef Gyarados (Neutral): 62% - 74% (248 - 292 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. <--- Bulkydos doesnt run max hp, it runs 156 and it still takes insane damage (67% - 78.9%), once again shaky as hell. The only ones who run Max HP are rest talker Dos and they cant do squat to Volca with Waterfall in the sun or lol Roar ? All that has done is weakened Gyarados and made it easier to get past later in the match.

Consider all the other pokemon; in sand, rock types have doubled special defense. and sand is extremely common, meaning that a whole bunch of rock types can now take the attack decently. <-- If they arent running Dugtrio on their sun team to auto remove Tyranitar.

I also like how you say that DRAGONITE is not a check to volca. Not only can dragonite end up setting up on its own with dragon dance and kill it with stone edge or earth-quake or something, but it can also phaze if it has dragon tail.

Its not a good check. How can you set up when you get Ko'd with rocks up ? Even if Nite comes in on a QD, takes hit and DD's its still slower so its just KO'd next turn.

Volcarona is simply checked by too many things. Saying things like dragonite and salamence aren't checks is just dumb.

They arent very good checks, i really dont see how taking 80%+ is stopping Volc sweeping tbh. That just helps my argument because they take near fatal damage and all it takes is SR or one previous hit then they lose.

They wont end up being setup bait, what do you think they'll do, just sit there while volca sets up? no, they will counter with their own powerful attacks, which is exactly what a check does.

No they will come in on QD, take SR damage and get KO'd next turn lol. Pokes is not a 1 vs 1 metagame.

Yeaaaaaaaaaah bold @@@@@@@@@
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