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Old July 15th, 2012, 01:22 PM
Dragonite Ernston's Avatar
Dragonite Ernston
I rival Lance's.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
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Originally Posted by NekoFuu View Post
I didn't mean to say you get to the point to where you can no longer learn anything new. Personally, I believe there are things out there that one person can never fully master. There's always room to learn, especially when it comes to programming. I'm perfectly aware that one can learn while doing, but most of the people that talk about making a new Pokemon Engine take it as far as basically learning how to do it while getting used to all the basics, which are less than sufficient enough to make much more than a simple calculator.
I didn't mean to say that either, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. What I mean is that 1 or 2 years of experience is more than enough to try and take on a project like this, even if it's for the (perhaps very) long term, and that you're selling yourself too short when you say you "aren't anywhere near ready enough" to do it. If you're not ready now, you'll never be ready.

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With 5-6 years of C++ experience, I'm sure you're quite the developer, compared to the majority of the average person attempting a new game engine of any sort.
Speaking as somebody who knows people who have 9 to 12 years of experience or more, (not just in C++, but in programming in general; generally when you learn one language it becomes easy to pick up others), I know people who would consider me a pretentious hack.

Many a project started out with some inexperienced person saying, "I want to do this thing that hasn't been done before. Let's do it!", rolling up their sleeves, and diving into the work and studying that comes along with the project. Even people with only one month of experience in the basics will run into the fact that they don't know enough, and the ones who are truly ambitious and determined will then proceed to learn what they don't know. And if the end result is that they realize they've been biting off more than they can chew, they probably haven't gone far in enough that it was a waste of time, and can still work on smaller projects that gradually grow in size. The process of building such a large project is often an end in itself, because it's a valuable learning experience, even if it fails. And if it succeeds in the end (probably after multiple failures), that's even better.

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That said, I'm sure even you and your partner (who I'll assume is roughly as experienced as you, or at least enough to hold his own) run into bugs and other problems along the way. Also as you said in a separate quote, you've been at it for ~2 years and are still nowhere close to done (given, you did say you guys don't always work on it). You understand it takes awhile, and that you need actual knowledge of the language. That's something that probably 75% of the people that say they're going to make one know.
Running into bugs isn't the hard part. Not knowing what you're doing is generally what will cause the most problems.

Also, did you miss a "don't" in there, before the last "know"? Supposing you did, even if 75% of people don't know, they'll find out, and then they'll know. It's not strictly a bad thing; it may just seem a bit annoying to somebody who "took the easy way" and created a game out of RPG Maker and Pokémon Essentials.

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Also, humility had nothing to do with it.
Okay. It just seemed like you were saying "I can't even do it, so how would I expect somebody even less experienced than me to be able to do it?"

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Originally Posted by Maruno View Post
The problem I see is that, when someone announces they're making a Pokémon engine from scratch, they mean from scratch. This means they need to make a basic mapping engine first, then invent events and all that stuff, before even thinking about doing something Pokémon-ish.
Actually, I started from battle engine up. The first thing I ever did related to a Pokémon engine was a command-line battle interface in Java. Then I worked on overworld.

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I'm certain that, no matter what programming language you're using, someone will have already invented an open source RPG engine for it. Just use that, and dive straight into inventing the Pokémon-style battle system. The wheel's already been invented for you.
Haven't seen one for C++ yet. If you find one (that is licensed under a BSD or MIT or similar permissive license), please show it to me.

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That's exactly what Essentials is, actually. The RPG engine itself is RMXP, and the Pokémon aspects are tweaks to a game made in that engine. I really do think you should aim to get something done at all before you aim to make it infinitely flexible and dynamic and whatever other ideals you may have. If you make the basic thing well enough (e.g. modular), then you can go back and tweak one part later however you want.
That's what we're doing, piece by piece. Although we don't have overworld, we have quadruple battles in the command line. We first got the thing working (single battles with fixed moves), then started moving on to extend it.

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Making it for private use is an even better way of making sure it becomes abandoned. Your attention will drift so much more if you know the only person your failure will affect is yourself. If you create something that everyone can use, their attention will keep you focussed and motivated.
We're creating something that eventually everyone can use, but since nobody can use it yet, we haven't gotten much attention.

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On the other hand, it would be nice to have a Pokémon engine that's free to use (RMXP costs money, last I checked). The main feature I would like to see, though, is a program similar to RMXP but tailored to that Pokémon engine. That is, a map editor and database which record information directly to data files rather than mucking around with PBS files. I don't think anyone has ever considered something like this (i.e. making it easy for a user to use the engine) when they say they want to make one. Still, I'm pretty sure at least some existing RPG engines will also have things like map editors, even if they're generic; they're still a good starting place.
Four Star Mon is exactly what you've been describing. Or, at least, that's what it will be when it's complete.

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Hey, even Essentials itself is a good place to start. It already has a Pokémon-style battle engine, which you can at least reference to help you make your own.
I kinda hacked together my own, but whatever.

http://fourstarmon.com/ <- this is the "Four Star Mon" I've been referring to this whole time, in case anyone wants a link or couldn't find it on Google or just didn't know which result it was. I made a thread for it in the Beginner's Showcase once upon a time, but that was 1.5 years ago.

Last edited by Dragonite Ernston; July 15th, 2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Submitted instead of previewed, how shameful D: