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Old September 25th, 2012 (10:59 AM).
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voicerocker
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Quote originally posted by MiTjA:
I always assumed it is like the Hoenn legends.
Those can clearly cause drought/heavy rainfall, making it seem like the land/sea is rising. This ability alone would have been enough for ancient witnesses to come up with their legend of creating Hoenn.
Yet they seem more like rampaging beasts when awakened, instead of sentient superior beings.
Seeing as how their slumber is being disturbed by evil teams determined to use their great power to destroy the world, I'd imagine they'd have a good reason to be somewhat upset right after been awakened. Still, I don't consider them to be deities or demi-gods, only Pokemon with very special abilities and great power.

Possibly, the original battle between Groudon and Kyogre resulted in the forming of what would become the Hoenn region (since half is land and half is ocean). They didn't "create" the region specifically to create it, but it happened as a result of that battle. At least, that seems to make since to me.

Quote originally posted by MiTjA:
Same for the dimension trio. People who saw them manipulate even more amazing aspects of reality, or perhaps simply emerge from another dimension, somehow figured Dialga and Palkia created Sinnohs halves that are divided by Mt.Coronet.
This one, I don't know. There isn't anything I can remember from DPPt to suggest that Dialga and Palkia created the Sinnoh regions. Still, most of the people of Sinnoh seem to believe it. Sinnoh seemed to have more tributes for Dialga and Palkia around the region (the statue, the cave triangle, text books) than any other region for their Legends.

Quote originally posted by MiTjA:
Now imagine what witnessing Arceus' creation of one of these would do..
With Platinum and Giratina, there is one piece of dialogue thats interesting to this. Cyrus expects the Torn world to crubmle, as he thinks of Giratina as its ruler/creator, once you defeat/catch it, he is then surprised and disappointed when nothing happens.
Remember, Cyrus is the guy who wanted to create a world for himself. He was half crazy. He would be one of the last people I would think knew what he was talking about.

And the fact that the Distortion World remained unaffected by Giratina's defeat/capture could be evidence that it was not responsible for its creation, which points back to Arceus. Perhaps if that dimension was completely controlled by Giratina, it would have been destroyed.

Quote originally posted by MiTjA:
But lets consider the most amazing thing we have seen Arceus do.
If the Shinto ruins are canon, Arceus can create new dimension legends at will.
However, it requires hundreds of Unown to achieve this....
Personally I think of that as a kind of legendary equivalent of breeding. Where casual pokemon require an opposite gender partner, Arceus requires hundreds of Unown.
Arceus is the only Pokemon we know that can do this. Plus, the Sinjoh Ruins were specifically created for Arceus. It seems very odd that any Legend would be able to do this. Not only that, but Arceus doesn't produce another Arceus through this event, only 1 of the 3 Dragons its legend states it created.

My own personal theory is that the Unown are Arceus's power manifested (Arceus can be any type, and so can Hidden Power, which is the only move Unown can use). The Unown are mysterious and have never been a part of anything important in the games until the Sinjoh Ruins event.

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
This is actually an impossible question to answer and nobody seems to even care what other peoples opinions are that's why there's arguments all over this thread but I'm gonna give my theory anyways and I'm ready for a disagreement cos ppl just gotta do it for attention lol
Actually, I like discussing this topic because it's fun for me. I like seeing different theories put against each other and seeing which one has the most credit to support it. Game Freak intentionally leaves holes for the fans to fill with their own theories, so it's interesting to see which theories are the most thought out.

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
Mew's DNA has genetic codes from every single Pokemon and the ancestor of them as well.
This is only stated in the Pokedex, and it is only stated as a theory by some Pokemon scientists. It is not a fact that Mew has the DNA of all Pokemon, nor is it a fact that Mew is the ancestor. And there isn't anything in-game that suggests it.

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
But, Arceus is the creator of the universe.
To be fair, this is not outright proven either. It is highly implied, but isn't stated as a fact.

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
So the only way to answer this question is to really go into detail and really think about it. If Pokemon had a God would it be Arceus or Mew?
This is the error I see most people make, they want to say that Mew or Arceus is God or a god. They aren't God or any kind of god, they are both just really powerful Pokemon. People attach their own definite of the word "god" to these two Pokemon. The way I see it, the Pokemon universe has no god, only an extremely powerful Pokemon that the legends of the Sinnoh region claim had the power to create the world and possibly the universe.

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
If Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon then that means Mew is also the Ancestor of Arceus. So therefore, I believe Mew was created first. If Mew isn't the ancestor of Pokemon then who is? They say Arceus created the universe but Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon. If you ask me it makes no sense. But without Mew being the ancestor then Arceus wouldn't even exist. I think Mew created Arceus to create the universe and Mew finished it by creating Pokemon. Here's a question that I would like to know. If Mew and Arceus are the creators of both then why make them obtainable in a Pokemon game? If Mew is for say God then why would it wanna battle what it created? Why would Arceus battle and destroy what it created? Those are 2 Pokemon that should of been mentioned but never became obtainable because of what they're capable of. Mew is ancestor of Pokemon so that makes it surperior to all of them.
Here's the thing, they both can't be the first Pokemon. 1 of them had to have existed first, but you're assuming BOTH of their theories are true, which contradict each other in that case.

Quote originally posted by MiTjA:
-Mew having DNA of all pokemon
remember that Arceus and co were not even discovered before Mew, and even if people knew of it, the scientists making this statement surely didnt go get a sample of Arceus DNA, so at its best it means all casual pokemon, but I interpret it as having the DNA of most of the first generation at least. Any more is speculation (well we could safely add babies and evos obviously..), but I wouldnt doubt it includes casual Hoenn/Sinnoh DNA...Unova is a much bigger question mark...

-It is ASSUMED to be the ancestor
Because it seems to have DNA of all pokemon. Its a theory. It might as well just be simply an extraordinary case, it might be extending its DNA everytime it comes in touch with more species, or some other explanation..
One Pokedex entry says that the "DNA of all Pokemon" theory comes from Mew's ability to use any move. They know it can use any move, and that is their theory on why. I think that just makes up for Mew not having its own signature move, ability, or special trait, like Celebi's time travel and Jirachi's wish granting. Knowing all moves I think serves as its special trait.

Quote originally posted by MiTjA:
-Arceus is said to have created the universe
We cannot deny the factuality of this story unless they added more legendaries with similar backstories (like if the next game introduced a second Arceus-like pokemon). But we cannot confirm it either, since all we have is a myth.
But even assuming it was true, how the heck would anyone ever know? Its not like ancient people of Sinnoh would have been there to witness the birth of the universe, remember they didn't exist yet.

The observation that Arceus is a mere pokemon like any other (it is limited by the same things, has real stats, a type, can use 4 moves, can be caught and used in battles.......) is a very important one.
I mean, when you ask something like "if pokemon had a god..", (of course it all depends on definition of that word etc. but) how could possibly a pokemon be the answer?
Like I said, I don't consider Arceus a god. Even the most powerful Pokemon in existence is still a Pokemon in the end. Even if GF were to create a new Pokemon with 1000 BST, it would still be a Pokemon like the others. Arceus is limited for battling purposes in the games. (It can't be unbeatable. That would defeat the purpose) So they program it with limitations, such as its Multitype can only let it change through the plates. And again, I think the Unown could serve to house that creation power that it uses in the Sinjoh Ruins event. (Though, that's just my theory. It doesn't need the creation power anymore because the universe already exists!)

We can't just say "If it created the universe, it shouldn't be able to be captured!" Why not? It's still a Pokemon. ALL Pokemon can be captured, regardless of their power.

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
Actually If Mew is the ancestor that does make it surperior to all of them because he's the creator. With Mew being creator it's DNA genetics sends it a signal to know what the next Pokemon is going to do.
Mew knows what the other Pokemon will do? I've never heard that before.

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
If no Pokemon couldn't take out Mewtwo in the movie then no Pokemon could take out Mew. Remember in the movie when Mew and Mewtwo started fighting? They were both equally powered and remember when other Pokemon tried to fight Mewtwo they didn't have a chance? So if numerous Pokemon can't stand up to Mewtwo then how could 1 Pokemon even think about trying to battle Mew?
In the movies, Arceus can change type at will, meaning all it would have to do is become a Dark-type and Mew and Mewtwo's psychic attacks would be useless against it.

Also, Shaymin was no match for Giratina in that movie, yet Arceus defeated Dialga, Palkia AND Giratina. 3 Legendary Dragons couldn't stop Arceus.

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
I still believe that Mew created Arceus because Mew wasn't powerful enough to create the universe.
That's a very odd theory. If Mew can't create the universe, how could it possibly have the power to create a creature that can?

In Dragon Ball Z, the Eternal Dragon couldn't grant a wish that was beyond the power of the creator of the Dragon Balls. I think the same thing would apply here. (or in general)

Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
But then, what created Mew? Arceus couldn't of have because Mew created it because of being the ancestor.
Again, you're trying to force the idea that both theories are valid at the same time, which is why you are left with the "What created Mew then?" question. Mew being the first Pokemon and Arceus creating the universe can't both be valid. This is where I like to look at in-game references for the both of them. If you ignore the Pokedex entry for Mew, you will not find anything suggesting it is the ancestor at all, as the Pokedex is the only thing that states that theory. Even the Pokemon Mansion documents about Mew's discovery and Mewtwo's creation don't mention it being the ancestor.
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