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October 12th, 2012, 08:21 PM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Originally Posted by
Okay, before I say any more, I would like to kindly ask that you stop putting words in my mouth. Did I say that "this particular sin will send you to hell and this sin won't"? Did I judge anyone at all? I simply stated that
all of us have sinned.
Me, you, everyone on earth has committed some sin or another. Tell me, have you ever told a lie? I know I have. Have you ever used God's name in vain? I have. Have you lusted after a person? Jesus equates that with adultery. All I'm trying to say is that no person is better than another. God created us all equal--we are all his creation. However, because of original sin (the sin Adam and Eve committed when they disobeyed God) man was separated from God. Did you know Adam and Eve walked in the Garden of Eden with God himself? But sin ended that direct relationship. And I'll get to it in a moment, but through Christ's atonement, we can once again have a close relationship with God.
Perhaps you're misunderstanding the meaning of "don't judge others." I did not say that I was better than anyone in my previous posts. In fact, I was hoping to
that, because nothing can be farther from the truth.
All men are created equal in the eyes of God.
Sigh. The point is, when you try to justify why a person would decide "This person is in hell", you are agreeing that it's acceptable for that person to pass judgment on this person's life. This began because I talked about how horrified I was with my aunt passing judgment on my dead uncle, and you're trying to justify it. Perhaps you forgot the source of this?
Perhaps I didn't explain it clearly. This is how the miracle of salvation works. When a person is born, he is born a sinner by nature, again, because of original sin. This makes us incapable of entering heaven. The animal sacrifices performed by the Israelites in the Old Testament were performed because blood had to be shed because of the sins of the people. They couldn't simply sacrifice any animal, either. It had to be
. This is how serious God takes sin. Jesus came to die on the cross for the sins of
. Because he is the Son of God, he is
, but in a different sense than the animals (a lot of the laws in the Old Testament were also symbolic of the things to come in the New Testament). Clearly, he is holy, and animals are not. He
is without blemish. He took the punishment that
. Because of this sacrifice, all who turn to him can and will be saved. The righteousness and holiness of Jesus is imputed upon the believer (remember, He lived a perfect life, so he really is righteous and holy).
is why believers are given passage into heaven. Not by any good works they may have done during their life time, but because when God looks into the hearts of the believers he sees the perfect sacrifice of his son, and that sacrifice is sufficient. When a person accepts Jesus, the sins of the past, present, and even the future are wiped away. He completely disregards and forgets about them. When God sees us, he does not see our sin but the perfect blood of Jesus Christ.
This was unnecessarily long. I understand religion, I've been to 7 years of Catholic school. None of this refutes the argument I'm making, which is that if you start believing after death you should be subject to the same forgiveness, and to try to justify claiming otherwise is really pushing it. If you accept that, then you can never justify a person claiming they know whether or not someone went to hell.
This is the only reason why anyone can make it into heaven. I'm sorry if I lead you to think that I'm not a sinner. I still fall. I still stumble. I make mistakes. But I have faith that when God looks at me, he doesn't see my sin any longer because he has forgiven me. Why? Because of the blood of Jesus. And also because he loves me, just as he loves everyone else. :) I'm not trying to sound conceited. He offers the very same thing to you and to all on earth.
We must also consider the fact that the Holy Spirit is given to those who believe in his name. The Holy Spirit changes us, gives us new desires to not sin and to live for him. Am I saying that Christians no longer have a desire to sin? Of course not. As long as we live in this body, on this earth, we are prone to all kinds of temptations. However, as a person continues to know God more and more, he will want to become more and more like him because of how righteous and loving he is. God's Holy Spirit changes people. In the end, it is his love that leads people to repentance.
Once again, we come back to why you seem so sure that people no longer get this chance after death.
Was my analogy of the judge not clear?
But as I said, God already went to
to make a way for us, to reveal himself to us, and to redeem us.
Holy crap, condense.
You're making the same mistake here that you keep making over and over - claiming to know for a fact what happens after death. That alone is making your faith-filled rants really obnoxious and personally offensive to me. I shared my comment in a club that is meant to support people that don't believe, and instead I get condescending evangelist who knows what happens after death and thinks it's perfectly alright to tell me why I should expect my family members to be in hell and still accept that God is a wonderful being that loves everyone, especially the ones he throws into eternal damnation for 70-100 years of not acknowledging him.
There is a difference between being God's "children" and being his "creation." We are all his creation. You, me, everyone on earth. The Bible states that when a person is saved, he is adopted into God's family. People are given the Holy Spirit when they are saved, and Romans 8:15 says "For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, 'Abba, Father.'" The term 'Abba' signifies the close relationship people gain with God when they receive him. As I stated before, I am a sinner. However, God is continually changing my life, making me more like him. And again, I'm not saying that I'm perfect. I do admit, however, that he has been changing my desires. He's been placing desires for me to follow after him and reject the sins I once called common. But I'm
. Any change for good in my is all because of Jesus.
Are you 100% God exists? This is the point of faith. It is through faith that we are saved, remember? All it takes is for us to trust in him, and he will come into our life and lead us. Life isn't simply about "don't do this" and "don't do that." There's a reason why God gave us rules in the Bible. It says that "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." God knows that sin will get us into nothing but trouble during our life on earth. This is another act of love on his part: he wants to give us a
life here on earth. Now let me ask you, now: what's keeping you from accepting his sacrifice today?
Am I 100%...what? I'm posting in a club for people who are agnostic/atheist. Is the question is if I'm 100% sure God exists? Obviously I'm not. And honestly, the more you argue the more I believe I made the right decision. You are not coming off well for your religion.
Edit: I shared this anecdote because this club is a safe space for people to share things like this. Don't make this into a place where people have to fear getting preached to every time they post, please.
Feed me Poro Snax!
Last edited by Toujours; October 12th, 2012 at
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