Thread: [Discussion] Marijuana!
View Single Post
  #42    
Old November 20th, 2012 (01:30 PM). Edited November 20th, 2012 by von Weltschmerz.
von Weltschmerz
the first born unicorn
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote originally posted by Razor Leaf:
A lot of the arguments for marijuana legalisation I'm seeing here involve a "but". Stuff like agreeing that marijuana effects cognitive skill but only for a short time, that marijuana can alter brain structure but only if used excessively, an addition can form but it is only mental rather than physical. That's all well and good but it begs the question in my mind, why let any of these things happen? The fact that there are any "but"s present here show that there is indeed substance to these reasons against the use of marijuana. And if there are legitimate reasons not to use it while the only legitimate reason is medical, since I don't really consider "it gets you high" to be a legitimate reason when there are drawbacks involved, then I don't see any reason why it should be legal for recreational use.

I just see it as having the option to let people use something which has negative effects and having the option to let people not use something which has negative effects. I don't understand why you'd pick the first option there.
This might be a valid argument if not for one thing: It's my body. The risk for such things if VERY slim. Especially when compared to the risks posed by alcohol and tobacco. It is extremely hypocritical that they would allow such substances like those, yet still ban marijuana on the grounds that it is dangerous. How do they get to pick and choose what kind of "bad" I get to do to my body? Alcohol affects cognitive skill... but only when you're drunk. Should we then have that banned as well? And Alcohol can create the same mental addictions, with physical withdrawals. Devastating physical withdrawals that can lead to death/the need for liver transplant etc. Tobacco is physically addictive, and we allow it? Tobacco calms people down, BUT it also gives them cancer. Alcohol makes people feel better, BUT it also damages nextto every organ in body. Tobacco and Alcohol both are unable to present legitimate medical claims, yet they are legal for recreational use; whereas marijuana has significant medicinal purposes... yet isn't. There are some serious double standards being raised here.

Entirely disregarding the health issue... I'm not shoving a blunt a down your throat and forcing you to puff on it, am I? So then, pray tell, why would you intend to force the disuse of this substance upon me, when I have not even had the slightest intent of forcing its use upon you? I think I'm quite old enough to assess the benefits and drawbacks to something that affects purely me. I mean... if marijuana really did make me go crazy and murder my family with an ax... I could see where you are coming from. But it doesn't, and I can't. Since I would also be smoking in a private venue, the idea that my smoking is affecting anyone else in anyway is just plain wrong.

Quote originally posted by SwiftSign:
Nobody you know has died of smoking weed. Thing is where do you draw the line at 'death by cannabis'? Surely death by dangerous actions, death by vomiting, death by smoking (and drinking at the same time) should be counted? You're fixating too much on the 'if I sit in a room and smoke one spliff I'm fine' kind of mentality.
Overdosing on Marijuana. Dangerous actions? That's not the marijuana, that's you. Death by vomiting? I do not believe that the vomiting induced could cause this to happen. But even if it could... do you know how many other legal substances that this also true for? Hell, Ipecac is MADE for vomiting... so if someone can die by vomiting off that.. shouldn't it be illegal too? I mean.. it's dangerous after all. OH but they have proper dosages, right? So you don't get close to death by vomiting? Well weed does too. Let me tell you from personal experience... you will want to quit smoking LONG before you throw up.

So I guess you can say that like Ipecac, weed has a proper, "safe" dosage. And legalizing it would only go to ensure that people receive the proper dosage, or at least that they have the information at hand to make an educated choice, even they don't end up actually doing that. And in that regards.. even if the weed did cause their death... That was still because they decided to use it stupidly.

The idea that marijuana should be banned because people CAN, through abuse of it, become ill and/or die is not too strong of a selling point to me. The same could be argued for pretty much ANY substance on this entire Earth. And compared to most other substances... it takes a lot more time/a lot more marijuana to achieve that state.

Spoiler:
.
Data source is the March 24, 2007 article: Nutt, David, Leslie A King, William Saulsbury, Colin Blakemore. "Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse"

Also...how would someone die by drinking and smoking at the same time? I can see dehydration.. but that can be argued just as much as a result of the persons's own negligence to drink water.

source: http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20030918/marijuana-smoking-doesnt-kill


Quote:
Wait what? This is science. Just as I've shown studies which say Marijuana is dangerous surely you could find some that reported no dangers? Don't be lazy.
The physical consequences of smoking weed are(as provided by:http://web4health.info/en/answers/add-cannabis-physical.htm



Quote originally posted by Web4Health:
"Increased heartbeat. Generally, it slows down in about 20 minutes.
Drop of the pressure in your eyeball.
Change of blood pressure.
Sense of cold or hot hands and feet.
Discoloration of the white of the eye to somewhat pink because of dilation of the vessels in the conjunctiva of the eye.
Relaxation of the muscles.
A dry mouth."
And I'll add my own to this list that I am sure we can all attest to: Relative spaciness/slowed cognitive function, esp. a weaker short-term memory. (and looky here: http://web4health.info/en/answers/add-cannabis-mood.htm)

The page also goes onto to assert that the physical changes dissipate in a couple of hours.

science.howstuffworks.com suggests the dangers of alcohol to be:

Quote originally posted by Howstuffworks:
Euphoria (BAC = 0.03 to 0.12 percent)
They become more self-confident or daring.
Their attention span shortens.
They may look flushed.
Their judgement is not as good -- they may say the first thought that comes to mind, rather than an appropriate comment for the given situation.
They have trouble with fine movements, such as writing or signing their name.
Excitement (BAC = 0.09 to 0.25 percent)
They become sleepy.
They have trouble understanding or remembering things (even recent events).
They do not react to situations as quickly (if they spill a drink they may just stare at it).
Their body movements are uncoordinated.
They begin to lose their balance easily.
Their vision becomes blurry.
They may have trouble sensing things (hearing, tasting, feeling, etc.).
Confusion (BAC = 0.18 to 0.30 percent)
They are confused -- might not know where they are or what they are doing.
They are dizzy and may stagger.
They may be highly emotional -- aggressive, withdrawn or overly affectionate.
They cannot see clearly.
They are sleepy.
They have slurred speech.
They have uncoordinated movements (trouble catching an object thrown to them).
They may not feel pain as readily as a sober person.
Stupor (BAC = 0.25 to 0.4 percent)
Stupor (BAC = 0.25 to 0.4 percent)

They can barely move at all.

They can barely move at all.
They cannot respond to stimuli.
They cannot stand or walk.
They may vomit.
They may lapse in and out of consciousness.
Coma (BAC = 0.35 to 0.50 percent)
They are unconscious.
Their reflexes are depressed (i.e. their pupils do not respond appropriately to changes in light).
They feel cool (lower-than-normal body temperature).
Their breathing is slower and more shallow.
Their heart rate may slow.
They may die.
Death (BAC more than 0.50 percent) - The person usually stops breathing and dies.

Compare THOSE with that of marijuana and the lethality rates compared to the amount necessary to get "high" and it is very clear that Marijuana is FAR LESS DANGEROUS.

Quote originally posted by SwiftSign:
Hello there, I stated a point and then presented the evidence at hand. A debate is no opinion driven, it is supported by facts.

Obsession? I mentioned it once, whilst you disclaimed scientific evidence.
Moot point. That is not the topic of this discussion. I apologize for my contributions to this deterrent.

Quote originally posted by SwiftSign:
As I've said, some studies show that there is withdrawal symptoms. In fact anyone in the UK who watches Jeremy Kyle will have noticed that.
Alright, here is what I have.
Quote originally posted by http://norml.org/news/2009/10/01/cannabis-withdrawal-syndrome-short-lived-affects-few-study-says:
The most frequently mentioned physical symptoms of strong or very strong intensity on the first day were sleeping problems (21 percent), sweating (28 percent), hot flashes (21 percent), and decreased appetite (15 percent). ... Other often highly rated psychological symptoms included restlessness (20 percent), nervousness (20 percent), and sadness (19 percent)."
The page also goes onto to describe the effects as "mild and subtle."

About.com says the effects are a craving for more cannabis, mood swings, and sleep disruption. This info falls in line with that other info. While such things might be unpleasant for some people... they aren't for me. I don't mind such withdrawal symptoms. *I* am the one who has to deal with them, am I not? And compared to alcohol... there is no organ damage or death listed among such withdrawal symptoms.

sources from About.com:
Levin, KH, et al. "Cannabis withdrawal symptoms in non-treatment-seeking adult cannabis smokers." Drug and Alcohol Dependence April 2010.

Marijuana Anonymous World Services. "Detoxing from Marijuana." Accessed June 2012.

Vandrey, R., et al. "Cannabis withdrawal in adolescent treatment seekers." Drug and Alcohol Dependence, January 2008

So I'll give you that there are some withdrawal symptoms... BUT:
-Craving for more: This could happen with any positive stimuli. If it provides effects that the user enjoys, they will naturally become more accustomed to using it. Especially if they fall into the habit of using as a way to treat their issues. The anticipation of relief will naturally cause them to crave more of it--but "it" can be any stimuli that gives them the desired results.
-Insomnia: This happens when marijuana is used as a sleep aid. And this, like the above, could happen with any sleep aid. I know plenty of people who DEPEND on opiates and narcotics just so that they can sleep. This can happen with nyquil, benadryl etc. It comes down to user responsibility
-Irritability: How would you feel if you just had to give up something that your body had grown so accustomed to? This irritability can again be attached to anything... or rather the absence of it. If the desired stimuli is removed...it is obviously going to distress the person. Like anytime you make some frustrated/annoyed... just give them time to cool off.


Quote originally posted by SwiftSign:
You supplied a link to a bias source, ""We use cannabis religiously and you can, too.” It's not reliable in the slightest. Even with a so called Doctor supporting their claims he is against the vast majority of people - including those doing active research in to the topic.
Obviously I was attempting to understand your fixation with "authority" figures on the subject.

Quote originally posted by Khawill:
Well I'm sixteen, riding two years no accident, neither has my 13 year old bro, or 8 year old sister (she rides a dirt bike, so that may be a bit safer). Also that source may bit a bit bias, considering there are links directly to lawyers who handle that kind of thing.
Just because something hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. That is what they are arguing. They argue that because someone COULD get more hurt on the motorcycle compared to cars that we should take away you right to ride it. I've been smoking for three years, no accident. I know people who have been smoking for a decade... no accident.
__________________
Being wrong isn't "bad", failing to admit that you are, is.
Reply With Quote