Thread: Game Timeline
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Old January 27th, 2013, 01:05 AM
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C Payne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
A remake wouldn't add much info. The idea that DPP and HGSS took place at the same time is taken from the events in DPP itself, not HGSS.
I didn't say they happened during HGSS/DPPt, I'm talking about where RSE fit in general. We've shown time and time again that we have no definite spot as of yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
You can freely trade between RBY and GSC as well. Of course, you can't trade new Pokémon and moves back to RBY, but you can trade back some stuff that didn't exist in RBY (such as Alakazam with the elemental punches). So (relatively) free trade is possible between games in different time frames. The only reason you can't do battle between RBY and GSC is the different game mechanics. Back then, it was explained through a time machine.

However, and this is a BIG however, you can still do free battle between RBY and GSC if you have a platform which supports both. This platform was called Pokémon Stadium 2 for the N64. In PS2, RBY cartridges could be used and then obeyed GSC mechanics in the game's battles.
With Stadium 1 and 2 being pretty early(before a lot of this time stuff came into play) and different takes at the time at that, can we truely call them 100% revelant? Even then, if they are able to do what you say(It's been a long time since I've tested it out) it's just as bad as the BW and B2W2 incident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
BW and B2W2 don't have any different game mechanics. Two years have passed, but no moves nor Pokémon were added. This is why a "time machine" isn't necessary.
Yeah, me being able to freely trade and battle with myself from two years ago totally makes sense!(note the obvious sarcasm there) A time machine should be used for time as well, even if not much has changed. I personally see that as a pretty noticeable flaw of Gen 5. They could have been connected with some sort of time mechanism but didn't. Why? Who the hell can know really other than them? This supports that they may just not care as much about time as the fans are obsessed with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
With regards to the RSE/FRLG thing, it's never stated that there is trade along different time frames. However, there is evidence that it can't be concomitant with DPP/HGSS, because the Orbs aren't in Hoenn during this period, and it can't be after BW either, since BW is after all the other games. This leaves the period between DPP/HGSS and BW, the period between FRLG and DPP/HGSS, or concomitant with FRLG. But how can you explain RSE being after DPP if none of the new evolutions discovered in Sinnoh are known to Hoenn locals?
Once again, I don't recall making any mention of RSE happening alongside HGSS/DPPt. If we do happen to get remakes, they could retcon Hoenn much better like HGSS retconned Johto better for the most part.

I'm sure they also hadn't really planned a real timeline back then(aside from Johto events being after Kanto; RSE were a reboot anyways). This could also explain why RSE is so messed up like you pointed out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
3rd gen retconned a lot of things it shouldn't have, IMO. Because in 2nd gen it was made clear that the new Pokémon from Johto were discovered after the original 151, and the new types were a recent discovery as well. With 3rd gen, Johto Pokémon appear in Hoenn and the Sevii Islands, and the Steel-type is no longer unknown. RSE should've been placed after GSC, but as it stood, it was so detached from the other regions that it almost seems like it's from another dimension.
Has that showed you the possibility of it happening somewhere/time other than alongside FrLg? Like I mentioned above, they may have not planned much to do with a timeline in the first few gens. RSE was a reboot, which detached it from the first two sets. Aside from the 3 years between the first two regions, nothing notable was really made about a timeline until DPPt came along and discussed the Red Gyarados incident.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
The plots are connected, because, where are all the Hoenn Pokémon coming from? They're caught during the plot of RSE and traded to the plot of FRLG, without any mention of time travel.

There are Johto Pokémon in Hoenn, just like there are Johto Pokémon in the Sevii Islands. Retcon of 2nd gen.
More than likely just another retcon like Johto Pokes appearing in the Sevii Islands. Refer to a certain point I made above. If Hoenn Pokemon did indeed come into Kanto during that time that means they also had huge access to Johto, with it being a neighbor and sharing Pokemon with Kanto, so why weren't Hoenn Pokes added into the regional dex of HGSS?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Known only in Hoenn. And even in Hoenn, there are parts of the game where you don't see any mention of Aqua/Magma.

There's no mention of Aqua/Magma in further games of the series outside the grunts in Icirrus City, who live anonymously. If their actions were recent (as in only a few years ago) and relevant (as in worldwide relevant), there would be people in Unova discussing them in both BW and B2W2, much like there were people in both Johto and Kanto discussing Team Rocket's actions three years prior in HGSS.

Maxie was a reckless buffoon. Once he found out he couldn't control Groudon, he devised a stupid plan of stealing rocket fuel to cause an eruption in Mt. Chimney. It's one of the most senseless things I've seen a Pokémon villain do in the games, because it really had no reason, he wouldn't gain anything by doing it, and it certainly doesn't help the case of making people take Aqua/Magma more seriously.
If they moved there after the events, that doesn't mean that they are going to announce what happened to all of Unova. As with Galactic and Rocket's events, they were stopped before things spread beyond in their respective regions(Rockets being in two, but that made sense anyways with Johto and Kanto as neighbors). I don't recall anyone mentioning Rocket and Galactics events on a usual basis either in B2W2, or BW for that matter. Furthermore, even though they were a ways in the past, that didn't stop the Plasma Grunt mentioning Galactic and Rocket's flaw. It's really strange that they didn't at least note the stupidity(as everyone seems to think) or simply the flaws behind Maxie and Archie's plans, which also would have led to a global disaster had Rayquaza not intervened(something big).

The last part of the first paragraph isn't fair because Johto and Kanto are neighbors, so are likely prone to the same attacks, while Hoenn and Unova, as far as we know, are pretty distant. The latter was pretty independent so it's still likely that the events of Gen III wouldn't have been widely known there at the time.

Also, while Maxie weren't exactly thinking 100% clearly during the raid on the Space Center, that obviously caused even more publicity for the team, regardless of how meaningless it really was(yet again, what the Plasma Grunt was referring to in BW). Even then, that could just be one of the original flaws that could be better addressed in a remake. If they were really a joke in the population's eyes though, everyone downstairs wouldn't have been a bunch of cowards until we came along.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Doesn't mean it's after Brawly became gym leader, but he was old and important enough to be taken under Bruno's wing. He doesn't look older than Bruno either. Bruno is an Elite Four member, it's assumed it takes hard work and recognition to reach such level. And time, of course.

This IMO is another proof that RSE is at the very least before DPP/HGSS because, if it was far into the future, Brawly would have to have been a kid when training under Bruno, who was a young adult in RBY. The NPC in FRLG references Brawly as a "guy", so, at least someone in his teens.
Aaron of Sinnoh's Elite Four looks pretty young as well(compared to other E4 members in general) but that didn't stop him. Guy is a general term so it doesn't necessarily have to mean he's in his teens either(not saying you were 100% meaning that, just addressing the likelyhood of not being so), so there's not much to go by there either(aside from Brawly being younger than Bruno, I agree there). Looks can be pretty misleading though because Cyrus looks a fair bit older than he really is. The guy looks like he's in his late 30s/early 40s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
My evidence may not be all that strong, because, like I said, Hoenn seems to have happened in another dimension, but at least I'm not basing it in ifs, coulds and shoulds.
There's no reason to be ashamed about including ifs/coulds/shoulds into the discussion because a lot of things really don't add up as of now. All of this has been really interesting to me.

I'm not 100% against what you are saying, I just don't agree with it 100% either.
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Last edited by C Payne; January 27th, 2013 at 01:22 AM.
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