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BIG FREAKING ANNOUNCEMENT WITH HUGE BELLS AND KNOBS ON: It's time for a change

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Alter Ego

that evil mod from hell
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Alright, you crazy people, I have been considering this for a long while now, so I feel it's about time to make it official. There are going to be some changes here in PRP, and since I plan for them to be longstanding ones, I would appreciate everyone's input on the matter.

At present time, the considered changes are as follows:

1. Limitations on RP submission

Right now, I can honestly say that this is the biggest issue this section has. Throwaway RPs, threads that don't even look planned to last a week, are being made and submitted in dozens on a weekly basis and I am getting royally sick of it. Every time something doesn't work out quite as planned in an RP, it's close and restart. Every time someone didn't get that very special starter in generic journey number 135, there's a new thread. And every time a new thread is made, somebody else wants some other thread locked. It is tedious, it is wasteful, and it is the one major lag factor on the thread moderation that I'd like to see dead and forgotten. SO, unless a better idea to fix this problem is presented, one of the following rules will be put into place:

A. A numerical limit on how many RPs one person is allowed to host at a time and a minimum time you have to wait before requesting a thread lock on an RP.

The numerical limit would most likely be laid down as either two or three threads. More than that, I honestly haven't seen anyone handle responsibly. Prospective thread lock limit is one month, starting count from thread creation.

B. A time limit between submitting RPs

Prospective time limit is one month since the last approved thread. Declined submissions would not count towards the time limit and it would not apply to OOC threads. UPDATE: Time limit now prospectively at two weeks.


The purpose of this change is to encourage more long-sightedness and commitment in hosting and joining RPs. A thread that's no good for more than a week or two is not a thread that should have been submitted to begin with.

2. Update of RPing guides and resources


Let's face it, the 'useful links' are not nearly as useful as they could be. Guides are scarce and insufficient in scope and most of them are practically ancient, so some major improvements are in order here. To all the veteran writers reading this: the more help I can get with this, the better. Anyone with an interest in writing a guide for any part of RPing, particularly actual posts and plots, please contact me and submit any prospective guides via PM for basic quality control before posting them. A new sticky will be made to replace the old 'Useful links' one and to host all of the assembled guides.

Again, let me stress: all help on this point is greatly appreciated and the wider the base of authors the guides come from, the wide the perspective they give will be.

UPDATE: No special permission is needed to write a guide, but it should be PMed to me for proofreading before being posted in the section. This for matters of organization, quality control and avoiding flat-out contradiction between guides. Also note, an RPing guide is not just a guide on the writing process itself. Topics such as general behavior in RPing are also open to guide writing.

3. Enforcement of the one-paragraph rule will be loosened


This has been a common cause of infraction in the section, but recently it has been abided by well, so I am willing to give a bit of leeway. Paragraph minimum will no longer be enforced by the character count, but please keep in mind that this is a priviliege; not a right. If five-word posts and similar eyesores start cropping up, the rule will be reinstated in full force.

In short: keep up the good behavior on the post quality front. I don't like having to go through all those posts to check for this any more than you like being infracted for it, so I sincerely hope that my trust in this matter is not misplaced.

4. Suggestions for new sticky threads and possible rule changes are now open

Section policy has always been to keep stickies to a minimum, but since I am making changes I may as well bring this point up as well. If there is a specific kind of thread you have been missing in this section, or if you feel that a section rule is being more of a hindrance than a help, then please post your suggestions and thoughts here. I will not guarantee that every lasts suggestion will be taken into practice, but I will guarantee that all suggestions and opinions will be given consideration.

UPDATE: A suggestion for a separate character discussion has been put forth. There is technically nothing stopping you from using RP discussion for this purpose, but if anyone is really keen on getting a separate thread, now's the time to say it.


So, there you have it folks. I will, according to present plan, keep this discussion thread open for two weeks before I make my final decisions on the matter, but this can be extended if the discussion warrants it. So please, thoughts, suggestions, opinions...let's hear them. I don't plan on making changes of this scale often, so if there is something you feel this section has always needed, now is the time to say it.
 
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Deoxys55

Deoxys Collector
1,819
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I assume you mean for us to share opinions in this thread, since you left it unlocked, so...

I haven't been active in this particular forum's RP life for a while (and most of the ones I was in years back weren't very good xP), but I have dabbled in the "art" for years.


1. Limitations on RP submission

I really support this idea, because if there's one thing I know about RPers, it's that they tend to be fickle. At least the one's I've encountered, including myself. Creative minds means creative ideas, and it seems like they have to make a new RP every time one pops into their head. I like both A and B, and I think that you should combine aspects from both in the final rule that you decide on.

From A, I think you should cap it at 2 or 3 RPs per person. 2 is my personal limit before I start going crazy, and from what I've seen, most people have their limits around 3. I second the one-month wait period before locking as well, because that will allow for the RP to start, develop, smooth over problems, and stabilize. A lot of people lock early because they face problems with plot/players when the RP starts, and lose the motivation to try and fix them. A month is a reasonable period to let them think the problems through without the knee-jerk "just give up" attitude.

From B, I think the period should be measured from the time the RP actually begins, rather than from the first post. So, one or two weeks (I would say two, personally) after the first in-character post.


2. Update of RPing guides and resources

This is something I also agree with. The current resources are helpful, but I think a lot of them could be reorganized, updated, and rewritten to be better. I think this should be a group effort, since people have different styles of writing and different interpretations of general RP knowlegde.

Another possibility would be like mini-guides, written on the same subject by several different people, offering their own unique views and help related to it. Something like these could be compiled into threads, with each post pertaining to a different topic. Something like this might be difficult to organize in terms of getting people to write them, however.

Personally I'd be happy to help write new articles, or help other people write them.

3. Enforcement of the one-paragraph rule will be loosened

I'm glad you're loosening this because I've seen strict length rules ruin RPs before. Usually one-paragraph rules aren't that bad, but in some RPs, there are situations where there is really nothing much to say, and trying to fill it up with useless sentences just makes it look bad. You can only use the "he lookes around, sighed, and kicked his foot up" filler so many times.
Also, I have had problems with it in other RPs because I tend to write long sentences, and usually I can get what I want said in one or two and I'm stuck for the last few. I've seen other people with this problem as well.

I prefer a character/word limit to a sentence limit, like the one used on this forum, and I think you should continue it's use. Do you have a character/word limit on this board? I think you should have one, even if it's not that big, since that allows us long-winded people to post painlessly even if it's not a full paragraph.

Hmm... that's all I really have to say. =P I really like all of your ideas that you've proposed.
 

Rokusasu

Scientist Salarian
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Though I've yet to create a thread of my own here, I prefer the proposals in 'Limitation' rule A, rather than that in B, purely because a month can be a very long time when you're suddenly hit with inspiration for a RP, and have to wait because you've already got one going. :3

I do like the idea of guides, and I agree with what Deoxys said- a group of people collaborating would be good, and I'm sure a variety of opinions/ experiences/ advice would be more useful to someone needing a guide than those of just one person. I'd also be happy to help with these- I've been doing this stuff for a long time, so there must be something I can pass on. XD

Personally, I've never had a problem with writing less than a paragraph whilst being here, but there are times where you can only have a character converse/ react to a limited extent, and you have to prattle on about various other things that don't pertain to the current situation. Filler can be tiresome to write, too. :P
 

Zeta Sukuna

Descendant of the Inchlings
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Here is my thoughts. Can't say too much about #1 that hasn't been said.

2. Update of RPing guides and resources

This is the one I agree with the most. Some of the resources, while helpful, could be made better, as well as a couple of new guides to help out some newcomers. However, not a lot of people read the rules and guides, well, not to my knowledge, but it would still be worth it to write up some new guides for the people who do. I'll be happy to help, but there's not much I can say that hasn't been said, unfortunately.

3. Enforcement of the one-paragraph rule will be loosened

I'm a little iffy on this one. While it allows for shorter posts, it can also backfire, if people just write one-liners, and SPAM posts. I know, it's still against the rules, but it can still happen, and it might. I'm not saying it didn't already, but it could be a little bit more of a problem, in my opinion.

4. Suggestions for new sticky threads and possible rule changes are now open

Well, I suppose this is neccessary, and I really can't say much about this, unfortunately.
 

Phanima

That servant of the evil one
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1. Limitations on RP submission

B. A time limit between submitting RPs

Prospective time limit is one month since the last approved thread. Declined submissions would not count towards the time limit and it would not apply to OOC threads.


The purpose of this change is to encourage more long-sightedness and commitment in hosting and joining RPs. A thread that's no good for more than a week or two is not a thread that should have been submitted to begin with.

From B, I think the period should be measured from the time the RP actually begins, rather than from the first post. So, one or two weeks (I would say two, personally) after the first in-character post.

The limit isn't measured from the first post, it's measured from when the thread is approved and then posted.

Though I've yet to create a thread of my own here, I prefer the proposals in 'Limitation' rule A, rather than that in B, purely because a month can be a very long time when you're suddenly hit with inspiration for a RP, and have to wait because you've already got one going. :3

That said, I do agree with . K i a r r a * that a month for roleplay submission is overextended. While the reason is justified and rightly so, considering the number of pages the forum has with, let's face it, dead roleplays, maybe the submission limit could be shortened to a fortnightly basis? I know some people who have made and maintained more than one or two roleplays at the same time, so consideration could be given to those capable of doing so. Comparison can be drawn from their previous roleplay with the number of members still participating, posting consistency and the like and so on and so forth.

Otherwise, I see no problem with the other rulings.
 

Deoxys55

Deoxys Collector
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It would be cool if we added a PC version of the "Mary Sue Litmus Test" as character creation guide.

I think this might be a good idea; there are several versions on the test, and we could put links to some of them in the guide thread for people to use. Most are general enough to apply to any RP/story.
 

Feign

Clain
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Sorry this is short (posting on dsi at hotel).

I like the ideas and perhaps when a rough write up is brought up, I can help to add too it.
 

Mika

もえじゃないも
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^^; um um, maybe if we extended the rp discussion to include more than one section?

I'd be more than willing to help with like a character creation hotline. ^^ submit your character profiles etc to a team of experts and have it reviewed and de-stu-i-fied? I also think a guide on how to enlarge posts without being a redundant monkey would be a good idea as well. Prehaps you could split it up further, request certain types of guides at one point and compile them into something eloquent? For instance, request all guide ideas for character creation help one week and the next, guides on plotlines and how to develop them etc.

Also, a pet peeve...

it'd be really lovely if we could have an etiquette guide. For rps. That includes what is proper and what is not proper in regards to dealing with conflicts and drama within the ranks of an rp. v-v I'm really getting sick and tired of seeing people treat rp masters like dirt if they don't let them into a roleplay or argue with them after the point when they have no business arguing with them.
 
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Alter Ego

that evil mod from hell
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I assume you mean for us to share opinions in this thread, since you left it unlocked, so...

That's what it's here for, yes.

I haven't been active in this particular forum's RP life for a while (and most of the ones I was in years back weren't very good xP), but I have dabbled in the "art" for years.

From A, I think you should cap it at 2 or 3 RPs per person. 2 is my personal limit before I start going crazy, and from what I've seen, most people have their limits around 3. I second the one-month wait period before locking as well, because that will allow for the RP to start, develop, smooth over problems, and stabilize. A lot of people lock early because they face problems with plot/players when the RP starts, and lose the motivation to try and fix them. A month is a reasonable period to let them think the problems through without the knee-jerk "just give up" attitude.

Yep, I'm thinking 3 at the present time, and that's much the same way as I saw the problem as well.

From B, I think the period should be measured from the time the RP actually begins, rather than from the first post. So, one or two weeks (I would say two, personally) after the first in-character post.

Yeah, I considered that, but then...that leaves any RPs that get started but don't manage to rack up the necessary members in a very awkward position. It's not something that happens a lot these days, but I'd rather not leave any loopholes for threads to slip down into. We'll, see though.

2. Update of RPing guides and resources

This is something I also agree with. The current resources are helpful, but I think a lot of them could be reorganized, updated, and rewritten to be better. I think this should be a group effort, since people have different styles of writing and different interpretations of general RP knowlegde.

S'what I was trying to get at above, yes. Technically, I could take on the madman's task of writing a guide to cover everything, but I'd rather have a collaborative effort than just my own solo rant. So yes, it's definitely the more the merrier. ^^

Another possibility would be like mini-guides, written on the same subject by several different people, offering their own unique views and help related to it. Something like these could be compiled into threads, with each post pertaining to a different topic. Something like this might be difficult to organize in terms of getting people to write them, however.

Yeah, that would call for some pretty intensive collaboration between authors, probably over PM/IM. It would be an interesting thing to have, but at the present I am shooting for getting all the topics covered adequately. But hey, if there are people feeling up for it, then by all means.

I'm glad you're loosening this because I've seen strict length rules ruin RPs before. Usually one-paragraph rules aren't that bad, but in some RPs, there are situations where there is really nothing much to say, and trying to fill it up with useless sentences just makes it look bad. You can only use the "he lookes around, sighed, and kicked his foot up" filler so many times.
Also, I have had problems with it in other RPs because I tend to write long sentences, and usually I can get what I want said in one or two and I'm stuck for the last few. I've seen other people with this problem as well.

I prefer a character/word limit to a sentence limit, like the one used on this forum, and I think you should continue it's use. Do you have a character/word limit on this board? I think you should have one, even if it's not that big, since that allows us long-winded people to post painlessly even if it's not a full paragraph.

The current limit is enforced by character count in comparsion to that of a pre-determined 'minimum paragraph' placed in the rules. So yes, it's done by character count. And yes, it's those 'nothing to say' situations that have prompted me to take a try at loosening this. No-one should be throwing in words just to make numbers. :\

I have a "Story Writing Guide" from school that would help in the guides and another about Charater creation if it would help.

As stated, guides on all topics are helpful right now, so if there's anything you have done and are willing to contribute then PM it to me for...well, already covered that process in the first post, so I'll just refer to that instead of repeating myself. XD

Yeah, long story short: anyone is free to write a guide, but I'd like to go through them before any are posted in public view. We have had some bad guides in the past, and while seasoned roleplayers should be able to tell the difference, new ones might not, so I'd rather catch any possible misconceptions, oversights etc. early on.

Though I've yet to create a thread of my own here, I prefer the proposals in 'Limitation' rule A, rather than that in B, purely because a month can be a very long time when you're suddenly hit with inspiration for a RP, and have to wait because you've already got one going. :3

Well, there is nothing stopping a person from writing down their inspiration and working on the plot while they wait for that time to pass. ;D

That being said. Yes, I do know what you mean, and A does give a bit more leeway in that repsect, so duly noted.

I do like the idea of guides, and I agree with what Deoxys said- a group of people collaborating would be good, and I'm sure a variety of opinions/ experiences/ advice would be more useful to someone needing a guide than those of just one person. I'd also be happy to help with these- I've been doing this stuff for a long time, so there must be something I can pass on. XD

At the risk of repeating myself from above. Yes, I definitely agree that a wide range of perspectives on this is the ideal. Style is an essential part of roleplaying and there's no single 'right' or 'wrong' in style, so multiple people's views on it is what I'd like to see.

And yes, please do join in. At the risk of repeating myself incessantly, the more the merrier. ^^

Personally, I've never had a problem with writing less than a paragraph whilst being here, but there are times where you can only have a character converse/ react to a limited extent, and you have to prattle on about various other things that don't pertain to the current situation. Filler can be tiresome to write, too. :P

Hear hear. Filler is precisely what I want to get rid of here. The rule was originally instated at a point in time when your average post really was one, uninformative line, so it was definitely necessary then, but I am hoping that people who have gotten into the habit of writing respectable paragraphs won't sink back to that level at the first opportunity, so I am trying to get a best of both worlds here. People writing full-sized paragraphs where they are called for and shorter where shorter is enough.

Here is my thoughts. Can't say too much about #1 that hasn't been said.

Well, preferences in the form of restriction and such would still be appreciated. ;D

This is the one I agree with the most. Some of the resources, while helpful, could be made better, as well as a couple of new guides to help out some newcomers. However, not a lot of people read the rules and guides, well, not to my knowledge, but it would still be worth it to write up some new guides for the people who do. I'll be happy to help, but there's not much I can say that hasn't been said, unfortunately.

Aye, I'm aware that not everyone reads, but when there is so precious little to read, there's not much help for those who do read either and there's a problem that can definitely be fixed without wide-scale mind control.

I'm a little iffy on this one. While it allows for shorter posts, it can also backfire, if people just write one-liners, and SPAM posts. I know, it's still against the rules, but it can still happen, and it might. I'm not saying it didn't already, but it could be a little bit more of a problem, in my opinion.

Duly noted, and it was my biggest doubt in trying this, but...yeah, I think I'm going to try. As stated, it's an experiment; if we get wide-scale misbehaviors as a result, then I'll revert the rule to its previous standing. But I've always maintained that good behavior should be rewarded, and as stated, people have behaved well on that front lately. Hence, I'm willing to give them a chance to prove themselves further on this front. Unless we get enough wider scale objections to make me reconsider, of course.

4. Suggestions for new sticky threads and possible rule changes are now open

Well, I suppose this is neccessary, and I really can't say much about this, unfortunately.

Yeah, this is here is a 'just in case'. Like I said, it's a larger scale operation, and since I'm going through the trouble of bringing this to public debate, I'd rather not have people walk out feeling like they weren't allowed to give their full opinion.

That said, I do agree with . K i a r r a * that a month for roleplay submission is overextended. While the reason is justified and rightly so, considering the number of pages the forum has with, let's face it, dead roleplays, maybe the submission limit could be shortened to a fortnightly basis? I know some people who have made and maintained more than one or two roleplays at the same time, so consideration could be given to those capable of doing so. Comparison can be drawn from their previous roleplay with the number of members still participating, posting consistency and the like and so on and so forth.

While I do see what you mean about the length, the second point I can't agree with. The one principle I'm not going to compromise in any part of my moderating is objectivity, so there will be no special snowflake allowances in any rule. Ever. It's either the same for everyone or not happening. Not only could RP allowances on a member basis be more than just a little unfair - and drama-inducing - the process of checking up on all these things and assessing them is a massive burden that I do not want.

So yeah, I'll consider shortening the time for option B, but limits are the same for all, myself included if it comes to that. Period.

It would be cool if we added a PC version of the "Mary Sue Litmus Test" as character creation guide.

Hmm...litmus tests are a bit short, so I'm not sure if I could place it at the same level as a guide. Then again, having something quick and light to confirm that you aren't doing things horribly wrong isn't necessarily a bad thing, and such a thing could be appendixed to the guide index without any greater troubles.

So yes, as a sub-section of the guide collection, I think I could accept test of this kind, though of course any copyright/linking restrictions on existing ones need to be abided by.

should I start typing out a guide I have or should I just let it sit there? it is rather good and covers just about every thing, and includes many examples.

Yes, please PM that to me as soon as convenient. It's a big project, so the sooner we can get a start on it the better. <3

^^; um um, maybe if we extended the rp discussion to include more than one section?

I'd be more than willing to help with like a character creation hotline. ^^ submit your character profiles etc to a team of experts and have it reviewed and de-stu-i-fied?

I'm a bit divided on this. While yes, personal help is good, I can't say I'm too wild about the 'team of experts' bit. As stated above, I'd like to keep any official matters as impartial as possible, and me sitting down to decide who is fit to advice and who isn't would go rather heavily against that. I suppose a general 'character discussion' thread could be justified, but if so anyone should be free to comment rather than a select elite. Good advice should be distinguishable from bad by the post.

I also think a guide on how to enlarge posts without being a redundant monkey would be a good idea as well. Prehaps you could split it up further, request certain types of guides at one point and compile them into something eloquent? For instance, request all guide ideas for character creation help one week and the next, guides on plotlines and how to develop them etc.

As stated, all guides are welcome, and this is a topic I've been working on myself. (albeit horrendously slowly, I admit) So yes, I agree, but...it kind of says so in the first post already. XD As for the guide compliation...eh, if such is in order, I'd rather have the individual authors settle that amongst themselves. As stated, collaborative guides are awesome, but they do call for even more work than regular ones, so I'm keeping that open as a 'if anyone is feeling up for it' option at this point.

Also, a pet peeve...

it'd be really lovely if we could have an etiquette guide. For rps. That includes what is proper and what is not proper in regards to dealing with conflicts and drama within the ranks of an rp. v-v I'm really getting sick and tired of seeing people treat rp masters like dirt if they don't let them into a roleplay or argue with them after the point when they have no business arguing with them.

Again, something I'm keeping as a work in progress, and again, an idea that I support. But yes, even topics not directly about the writing itself fall under the scope of things that a comprehensive selection of RP guides should include.


And yes, as a reminder since several people seem hesitant on this point: you do not need special permission to write a guide. I just want to see them before they are posted in the section. ^^

Anyway, thanks for the input everyone, and please keep it coming, even if it feels like you're just repeating what others have already said. On matters such as the choice in restriction rules, quantity of for and against matters too.


UPDATE: Opening post has been updated with the suggestions thus far. Read 'em and weep.
 
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The Gaurdian

a change in your demeanour.
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OK i will PM it to you once I get the whole 20.5 pages(yes IT is that long on paper...) typed onto Word, Just give me a week or two first. because i am going to my grandparents for a bit, then I will get it to you.
 

Phanima

That servant of the evil one
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While I do see what you mean about the length, the second point I can't agree with. The one principle I'm not going to compromise in any part of my moderating is objectivity, so there will be no special snowflake allowances in any rule. Ever. It's either the same for everyone or not happening. Not only could RP allowances on a member basis be more than just a little unfair - and drama-inducing - the process of checking up on all these things and assessing them is a massive burden that I do not want.

Seems I became somewhat overzealous with the idea. Fair enough though, as I assume the amount of paperwork could become overwhelming, not to mention trying to maintain decorum with issues of equality would do nothing but cause more trouble, so I can adhere to that. And although already addressed via * K i a r r a, I understand that the monthly submission limit is to compensate for quality and investment and I see nothing wrong with jotting down new ideas and developing them further during such time. Whether the limit becomes a month or fortnight is decidedly up to you, but I now feel that both are sufficient (except, you know, that one's a little more lenient).

Anyway, I've been toying with the idea of writing up posting guidelines. Safe to say, I've had some thorough experience in writing terrible posts, which I can cover with 'what not to do' when posting. I'll most likely include some information on posting as the game master and as a participant as well, concerning issues such as the use of perspective, the aim of the character, and general posting details and the like. So I'll private message you once that's done (or if I ever get around to it xP).
 
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Would a guide discussion thread(s?) be apt? Some people may have plenty to contribute but not want to write a guide. A guide could be proposed, discussed and built before sending in the version 1 to you, then perhaps further additions could be discussed once it has been published.
Anyway, should there be a limit to the amount of RPs a person can join? It might not be a popular idea but I've noticed that people involved in a lot of RPs tend to be less active in all of them (very bad for RPs with small members or RPs trying to get going) and have a very quick decline in post quality.
I support a character discussion thread.
 

liveitout

What? Where?
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I like your idea about a guide discussion thread, Shen. Some people might want to contribute, but not feel confident enough to act as an authority on any one subject. :x I could give some advice on how to post and how not to post, but not write an entire guide.

Limiting the number of roleplays a person can join sounds like tedious work for the admins, since it isn't automatically recorded, unlike post length or age of roleplay thread. Alter Ego would have to scan every roleplayer to see how many threads they had signed up in. Unless, of course, signing up became coded into the forum, but that's not going to happen.
 
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Limiting the number of roleplays a person can join sounds like tedious work for the admins, since it isn't automatically recorded, unlike post length or age of roleplay thread. Alter Ego would have to scan every roleplayer to see how many threads they had signed up in. Unless, of course, signing up became coded into the forum, but that's not going to happen.

I figured it could be made a rule and if anyone notices someone breaking this they could alert an admin.
 

Alter Ego

that evil mod from hell
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Yeah, who is participating in which RP is not anything the forum mechanics can feasibly keep track of, and doing it personally would be living hell. Yes, a thread could be used to report, but that's assuming everyone uses it as they should (which, I can guarantee, they won't) but that would be an extra sticky to mind. So yeah, though I agree that it's an issue, this is really something RP masters should consider when deciding on their cast. There is not really a way to enforce that rule in any efficient manner with what I have.

As for discussing. I'm going to go ahead and keep the guide collection sticky open for commenting on guides and discussion on them. Keep the sticky count one lower and all.


Anywho, though this is overdue due to database misbehavior, I think it's time I called a close on this input. Thanks to everyone who participated and I should have the updated rules and sticky modifications done shortly.
 
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