"Those who experience bullying bring it on themselves."

I was thinking earlier about this statement (I didn't make it, btw, so this isn't necessarily my opinion) and I decided it'd be interesting to hear what you guys have to say about it.

...for some reason.

So, what do you think? If someone is experiencing bullying, is it their problem that they need to sort out? Should they be expected to change to make it stop? Or is it not their responsibility to change themselves for the sake of bullies who should be more tolerant and accommodating? Does bullying happen for a reason, or is it simply random targeting? If someone should change what they were bullied for, could the argument ever be made that bullying can sometimes have a positive outcome? Can it ultimately better someone, or will it never have a benefit (or at least, so rarely that it can be considered non-existent)?

I'm talking here about things that can be changed as opposed to unfixable things (and a second discussion point here - what can be done about bullying experienced over something that can't be changed at all?), but do go ahead and discuss those anyway if you wish.

I'll give my opinion... once I've formed it. Idk where I stand right now.

Unfortunately, bullying happens for no reason and it appears like a form of power for most; they like the feeling of being a dominant individual over someone who has little to no power to defend themselves. And that's where the case of individual versus others' effort in changing the situation come in. It's difficult to a certain degree for individuals experiencing bullying to find it within themselves to stand up against their enemies. Often times these bullying cases go unresolved because they're afraid to tell anyone about the situation thus allowing for its continuation.

Although bullying may not necessarily come from people who possess hatred or a dislike towards someone, but even from friends in a more subtle way. Within a group of friends, it's even more difficult to protect yourself because you believe they are doing it for fun, without any vindictive motive.

I've been subject to slight bullying during elementary school years and they were mainly in verbal form. Regrettably though, I never thought once to do anything about it because there was the whole "tattling" aspect back then, which kids would be made fun of for, at least where I went to school. I apologize for my ideas being all over the place; writing a response right after a midterm doesn't do well for my brain.

People will find a weakness and exploit it. It's how people work. There's nothing you can really do to stop it.

This may be too much of a stretch, but I think the title phrase is comparable to rape. It seems like we're discussing changes in one's self, as opposed to seeking outside help, etc., so the point I make becomes more relevant. The stance I take regarding rape is that under no circumstance does one ask for it. There's a time and place to debate that, but my views on that translate to bullying. Perhaps bullies have something about the victim that they target. However it's ultimately the bully that goes through with the action. You hear a lot that bullies have their own problems, whether it be at home, etc. And the responsibility really lies on them to change, regardless of if they're cognizant of what they're doing. Obviously little change will occur if it's up to the bully to sort things out, but in theory, that's how I think it should be. The victim should not have to change who they are just to escape the harassment, regardless if there is an initial trait or physical target that the bully latches on to.

All that seems to mesh together well in my mind, but it's not the most practical approach. I guess undergoing change as a result of bullying is both an effective method, and in some cases, a positive experience. But I'd rather have people change for the right reasons, and not have to suffer in the first place. Since my ideas of bullying don't really sort themselves out nicely, I guess I can offer no other alternative.

Razor Leaf said:

If someone is experiencing bullying, is it their problem that they need to sort out? Should they be expected to change to make it stop? Or is it not their responsibility to change themselves for the sake of bullies who should be more tolerant and accommodating?

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Events don't happen in a vacuum. Even though only the victim may be directly affected, it'll almost certainly affect others. So it isn't just their problem. That said, they should definitely do something themselves if they can. Expecting the world to change its behavior for you is idealistic and silly, doubly so if you don't even take matters into your own hands.

Does bullying happen for a reason, or is it simply random targeting? If someone should change what they were bullied for, could the argument ever be made that bullying can sometimes have a positive outcome? Can it ultimately better someone, or will it never have a benefit (or at least, so rarely that it can be considered non-existent)?

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Bullying happens because someone is different. Bullying very much can have a positive effect on a person in the long run, but that doesn't mean it should be actively supported.

I am not a fan of the line of though that you should take responsibilities for the actions of others - they have their own minds and make their own decisions. The only "exception" to this I can think of would be if you are behaving like a total jerk and everybody then treats you bad as a consequence.

Bullying is not people giving you constructive criticism or advice - it's about harassment, humiliation and subjugation. More often than not people are being bullied for things they have no control over (color of their skin, sexual orientation, physical appearance) and if not it's about not giving in to group pressure and stereotypes. I was being bullied for six years for things like being poor, having good grades and not being "manly enough". Should I have improved the salaries of my parents, studied less and started lifting weights just to be accepted? Bullying people goes completely against principles like "unconditional love" and accepting people they way they are. Also, giving in to bullies and change your behavior to fit them would't solve the issue at all - they would now consider themselves victors, having manifested their superior status and that you are beneath them. The bullying would in all probability continue but in a different form, like you being their servant with the threat of the harassments starting again but worse if you "misbehave". You would loose self esteem, sense of worth and nothing would be solved. It's like the lyrics by John Lennon: "They hate if you're clever and they despise a fool" - they will always find something wrong with you regardless. The problem is not with you but with them.

This reasoning that you are to blame for your own bad circumstances is often used to justify not just bullying but most forms of segregation, societal injustice: "They are poor/"handicapped"/whatever because of bad karma in a previous life/God doesn't like them/because of destiny, they aren't trying hard enough/are lazy" etc. This is a way for people with a position of power to feel relaxed about their suppression, in way avoiding doing the very thing they ask of others - take responsibility for their own actions. "I am allowed to do all these things because they 'deserve it'". Who made you judge over other peoples lives that justifies you hurting them while you expect them to just be OK with it and gladly accept whatever you feel like doing? In a way it's like the "excuse" you hear often that that "he/she" started it", or "why do you always make me mad" - resulting in things like wife beating, or "she dressed in so-and-so fashion so that makes it OK for me and my ten friends to all have sex with her" the list of offenses goes on.

Bottom line: It's never justified to systematically abuse somebody physically/mentally. Period.

Flushed said:

This may be too much of a stretch, but I think the title phrase is comparable to rape. It seems like we're discussing changes in one's self, as opposed to seeking outside help, etc., so the point I make becomes more relevant. The stance I take regarding rape is that under no circumstance does one ask for it. There's a time and place to debate that, but my views on that translate to bullying. Perhaps bullies have something about the victim that they target. However it's ultimately the bully that goes through with the action. You hear a lot that bullies have their own problems, whether it be at home, etc. And the responsibility really lies on them to change, regardless of if they're cognizant of what they're doing. Obviously little change will occur if it's up to the bully to sort things out, but in theory, that's how I think it should be. The victim should not have to change who they are just to escape the harassment, regardless if there is an initial trait or physical target that the bully latches on to.

All that seems to mesh together well in my mind, but it's not the most practical approach. I guess undergoing change as a result of bullying is both an effective method, and in some cases, a positive experience. But I'd rather have people change for the right reasons, and not have to suffer in the first place. Since my ideas of bullying don't really sort themselves out nicely, I guess I can offer no other alternative.

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From my understanding, and what you proposed, I wouldn't necessarily put the blame on the bullies themselves along with the responsibility of changing themselves. Bullies may have become the way they are because of their upbringing, which would then place the parents as the source of their bullying behaviours towards others. And when those bullies have children, the environment they could potentially set for their subsequent upbringing only contributes to this vicious cycle.

Vanille Sky said:

From my understanding, and what you proposed, I wouldn't necessarily put the blame on the bullies themselves along with the responsibility of changing themselves. Bullies may have become the way they are because of their upbringing, which would then place the parents as the source of their bullying behaviours towards others. And when those bullies have children, the environment they could potentially set for their subsequent upbringing only contributes to this vicious cycle.

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Very true. It may not be the bully's fault due to something like a cycle of such upbringing, but I still believe it's a conscious action they carry out, and in a perfect world, it shouldn't be the victim's responsibility to have to change themselves.

Flushed said:

Very true. It may not be the bully's fault due to something like a cycle of such upbringing, but I still believe it's a conscious action they carry out, and in a perfect world, it shouldn't be the victim's responsibility to have to change themselves.

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Agreed. Unless the victim somehow brought it upon themselves to become a victim, I don't see a reason why they should invest in changing themselves. Regarding the vicious cycle of parents and their upbringing, assuming that the bully has grown up in such a situation, it should be their responsibility to be the first one to break that cycle and hopefully make for a better environment for future generations. That's obviously not a solution to bullying, but it's a start to potentially reducing the possibility in raising a child that could become one.

Bullies bully because they feel insecure about themselves and it makes them feel better when they bully. They could do it out of joulesy (spelled it wrong, don't mind it). It isn't the victims fault initially. If the victim stopped it himself/herself and/or told an adult who could stop it, then they have done everything they can. If they don't, the bullying isn't going to stop, and it is their fault for not stopping it.

Then again, changing in a way that allows you to better accommodate the bullying (reducing harm) would be doing yourself a favour. It might not be your fault that you're being bullied, but to the extent you're free to help yourself, you kinda should.

You cannot change who you are and unfortunately for those who appear different to others are easy targets for bullies. Yes, the bullies should have enough of a conscious mind to realize and be aware of their behaviours. Additionally, victims probably should feel that they are responsible for requesting help should they need it or else they'll be digging themselves into a larger hole. Both sides have responsibilities in regards to their role in the situation, but it's neither right nor wrong whether the victims decide to change to "accommodate" the bullies or ask for help.

i think its rather dumb of an idea to get rid of the bullies you have to change what the bullies are bullying you for. some people stated that there simply is no reason for bullying, and that is true. it's based on power and an obsession with dominance. saying the person being bullied is at fault for being bullied is like saying that a person being raped is at fault for being attacked.

i was bullied all throughout my school years. i didn't change who i was simply because, well, it was who i was, and at times it was impossible to. i was bullied for my sexuality and my gender, both things that i cannot change and if i did i would be incredibly unhappy. i was also bullied for my disorders, again, things i cannot change.

things like your personality can be changed, possibly for the better, but most bullies bully others for being different. they are simply confused and ignorant to these differences.

or, there simply is no reason, like previously stated. maybe someone just bullies another person because they are a jerk and feel the need to.

Leo Baskerville said:

I've heard that children who bully, are usually abused in somewhere themselves.

But I have never heard the idea that bullying is the fault of the bully, and I don't believe that's true. Just because someone is different than you doesn't mean you have to make fun of them for it. It's the fault of no one but the person doing the bullying. They could stop, or aim their energy elsewhere, but they choose to make someone feel bad for being themselves. I was picked on because I was generally quiet, and kept to myself, but I was nice, and had a couple of close friends. My personality was just different than theirs, and it's not my fault for being a quiet person, it's just my personality.

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You mean the fault of the victim? XP And reiterating my point, coordinating with yours about bullies being abused somewhere in their life, it becomes a vicious cycle. Children often learn from the behaviours they witness on a daily basis within the household. If there happens to be domestic abuse or anything similar, that only increases the possibility of the bullies becoming replicas of their abusive parents. Thus continues the cycle should they have children and decide to participate in household domestic abuse. It'd be wise, and benefit others in the process, if they could decide to express their anger or emotions in a productive manner. Reality is that people are too influenced by their feelings to reason with themselves what that method would be so they resort to lashing out on others.

It's hard to change the thing that they're bullying you for when that thing is your name, or skin color, or race, or any unchangeable factor. I don't understand how bullying works, I'm on the terribly thin line of bullied and bully. In my experience however it's usually just how people cope with their own flaws, I mean if you can't change something about yourself, why not make someone else feel bad about something they can't change? I had this one bully in elementary school who was a guy, but had a girl's name and he also had ADHD. He'd usually beat me up and make fun of my name which sounded similar to nursery rhyme, and he would make fun of my ADD and say that I'm childish. I don't know if it applies to everyone though, it's just to me, all my bullies and the people I am sorry for have bullied around a bit have things in common with me. Maybe people bully people that are happy with the flaws they're unhappy with.... I don't know.

Going to give the awkward answer of SOMETIMES. Statements like the one in the title are basically like saying, "bullies are male", and while yeah, that could be true in some bullying situations, there's clearly situations where it's a not a male behind the bullying.

A few notes on the matter from what I've witnessed in my life. 8D

First off, there can literally be flagrant taunting from the victim before the "bully" makes their move. "Victim" can make the person being bullied seem free of any fault at all. I don't think they deserve to be bullied, mind, but I'd definitely say I've seen a lot of people making themselves very open targets. So I mean, to state the obvious, don't get on the wrong side of people, as some people won't be particularly kind in return.

The blurrier lines are drawn when the "victim" unwittingly makes themselves a bit of a target. Suppose said victim was getting fantastic grades. Cool. Well done to them. But uh, suppose now they're being particularly pretentious about it. Not meaning to outright rub people the wrong way, but they're definitely not going to make themselves liked by making other people feel bad in comparison. If some people take their unfondness to the extent of bullying, that's always the wrong thing to do, but I think I've kinda established an MO for the bully there.

The third case would be someone with an impairment/difference of some kind. This... tends to provoke the more vile kinds of bullies. The sort of bully that feels better about themselves by establishing their own "superiority" over lesser targets. A traditional sort of definition I guess. Whether it's a stutter, something mental or an odd quirk, or even if it's something that isn't innate like a hobby that seems weird, if the bully is someone that senses blood and fancies putting said person down, then they're going to do it if they feel they can better their own reputation for it.

Last main motive that I can think of would be like, friends who've fallen out. One may turn on the other and their bitterness over said falling out would serve as their MO to make life worse for the other person. In some cases this ends up being a clear cut bullying case.

There's probably other cases and such but I feel I divided up the main motives reasonably well. So for the first case, obviously the victim is just outright bringing it upon themselves by crossing the person; the second case is a bit ambiguous, I guess it would be bought on themselves. The third case would be something beyond their control, but still based on them being... who they are, I guess. Fourth case, who knows how said fall out could have happened?

To conclude, I'd say that generally speaking, unless we're talking about things unchangable, the victim can contribute to the bully's motive in a lot of cases, but perhaps not all. Suppose a fall out was caused by a factor that wasn't down to the victim? (eg: The victim was blamed for something they didn't do which resulted in the other person's ire to the extent of a falling out?) Said victim wouldn't have been responsible for that, I guess. I dunno though, in most cases I suppose it's pretty true that the victim has their part to play in being the target.

To blame the victim of bullying for his or her own predicament is always wrong. Because no matter the presumed provocation, it is never right to make the victim responsible for the bully's actions. In the same way it is wrong to blame a rape victim for being raped because of the provocative clothes they were wearing, we do not blame the victim of bullying for the actions of their tormentor.

*clarification: in no way do I mean that the victim is at fault. I'm giving an MO from the bully's perspective and how the victim could provide that motive to an extent, but it is always the bully's fault, of course.

On the subject of rape, always the rapist's fault too, of course.

Figured I'd make that very clear if I hadn't! Both of the above are not acceptable behaviour for a decent human being.