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5th Gen The relationship between opposites

Shining Raichu

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
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Every generation of Pokemon games has a theme that is represented through the new Pokemon, the storyline and the concepts introduced in each new game. Pokemon Black and White are concerned with opposites and the relationship between them. Below you'll find a passage discussing this:

Bulbapedia said:
Unova thematic motif
The fifth generation of Pokémon games focuses on the relationships between opposites, such as nature and industry or humans and Pokémon. This comes from the concept of Yin and Yang, which the legendary mascots of Pokémon Black and White, Reshiram and Zekrom, are based on, with another reference being that Reshiram is the mascot of Black and Zekrom being the mascot of White-- both are opposite colored to the game's color, while version mascots beforehand had always matched. The Musketeer trio also represent this theme as they are trying to prevent Pokémon from losing their natural habitats to human industry. The generation's main antagonists, Team Plasma, also fit in with this theme, as their goal is to separate Pokémon from humans. Some of the cities also reflect this theme by being aesthetically different depending on the version of the game; two major examples of this are Black City and White Forest, two version-exclusive locations. The Dream World, which is supposed to combine dreams and reality, also fit into this theme.
Click to expand...

Did you pick up on this theme during your playthroughs of the games? Do you think they were effective in putting this theme across? Can you think of any way that they could have improved or expanded upon this? Can you think of any examples of this theme that were not mentioned above?

Discuss!

(and I do mean discuss. Please do not list-answer my questions. I didn't write them in a list so please do not answer them that way).
 

miltankRancher

Mega Ampharos is the one.
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i think GF made the theme come across. i mean it was really evident in the game that opposites do really exist. they did a great job on that. *claps hands*

I think not only Zekron and Reshiram manifested the opposite something. Even the version-exclusive pokemon are opposites. Reuniclus and Gothitelle are examples: Simply by the look of Reuniclus, we can see that he is a happy guy, whereas Gothitelle is not. And Reuniclus somwhat means a "union" of something. Gothitelle on the other hand is an allegory to a separation from reality and society.

Braviary and Mandibuzz is also an example. Braviary is a war-eagle. It shows vitality. Life. Mandibuzz on the other hand is the Pokemonification of death. Sorrow. Sickness.

Alder is also an opposite on his own. Between want and need. As from what I understood, Alder wants to travel the whole region again. However, due to his post, he needs to go back to wherever he is (the League) to fulfill his duty.
 

Zerrah.

Mauling with Ursaring
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I had never noticed that the cover Pokemon for the 5th Gen was opposite of the color that the title depicted. Hm... makes me feel dumb. Lol. However, the fact that the game was based on opposites was quite easy to pick up on. I am currently playing through on my White cartridge (after having beaten the game in Black), and I've picked up through some dialogue that there is no clear cut, defined outcome to every trainer. Usually in the game your entire goal is to become the Pokemon Master, and perhaps complete the Pokedex. They never really reference that you could be anything but the champion. However, in BW it is pretty obvious that though Bianca has a lot of determination, even walking out on her father, but she is not really cut out to be a Pokemon Master. She is pretty content being a casual participant in Pokemon battles, going along on the journey more out of sheer enjoyment and adventure instead of with one particular goal in mind.
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
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Yeah I noticed this, mainly since it was discussed so extensively before I actually got to play the games. As for the Musketeers, while I pretty much knew the other things (other than the Dream World being apart of opposites), I didn't really pay attention to their back story, or think it even mattered. Makes sense, though! Something else, is also Opelucid City, which is old in one version and new in one version, connecting the old and the new together.

You've also got Lenora and her husband, which don't... really match up in a normal sense but sorta fit together in-game. Can't really think of anything else off the top of my head, though. I think there's really a whole lot of things we haven't thought about here when it comes to opposites, but yet I aim failing to think of them!
 

sherreamethyst

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I did notice that the cover was a different color then the Pokemon depicted on it, like Zerrah said, but I never thought of opposites as being the theme. I never picked up on that. I though the theme was more like on trickery and being decieved.

I'm sure some people might have picked up on the theme easily, but I sure didn't. Now that I think of it though, I think they did do plenty to get the theme across, but I guess I was just too dense. :P

What about the friends that you travel with- Bianca & Cheren? Bianca is clumsy, not very good at Pokemon battles, loves Pokemon- one of the only reason she is on the journey besides wanting to go out and explore the world, and has a more easy going personality with a hint of stupidity. Cheren on the other hand, is more serious, put together, smart in Pokemon strategies, potions, and battling, and already knows he wants to be strong. Kinda the opposites? Yes?? No??
 
Shining Raichu

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
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Another thing I noticed that may contribute to this was the Pokemon typings. For the first time we saw dual typings that had never been seen before and that were in strict opposition to each other. The two main ones that stand out in my brain are Bug/Fire and Ground/Electric, and in both of these cases one is super-effective on the other. To a lesser extent, Deerling/Sawsbuck's typing of Normal/Grass as Normal types are never usually paired with any kind of element.

I think if they wanted to improve on this and really make it stand out, they should have created a Fire/Water or a Fire/Grass Pokemon.
 

argith

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contrast

Honestly i never really caught on to that connection, interesting. After stopping and thinking about it, i can see the connections now and i like the idea of it. Trying to throw in a little political statement in there for the older players to catch on to. i'm not sure if i like this idea, but they could have possibly kept the difference theme going on like in Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald with the legendaries meaning one by land, sea, and air. just my opinion on that. Might have made a special combo move for both Reshiram and Zekrom when battling together in dual battles to represent the whole ying/yang idea, but yeah i like the contrast here with these games.
 

Ho-Oh

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I just thought of another opposite - think of the first gym. Your opponent uses the type that is opposite to it (to their benefit) and you get given the Pokemon that is opposite to theirs in the Dream Yard, while there's technically 3 leaders, it's still technically opposites!
 

miltankRancher

Mega Ampharos is the one.
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Another thing I have found, upon research, is Amanita, the PC Box moderator.

Amanita is a genus of mushroom that contains most of the world's most toxic mushrooms. It, as implied, causes death and sadness. However, in the game, Amanita is a very lively gal and is a genius. She developed the box system, which helps trainers, making them happy.

Also, Juniper and Fennel in real life have relatively opposing uses. Fennel are best used when it is fresh, since it used commonly as a spice for cooking. However, Juniper is the best known flavoring of gin, which takes some time to ferment.
 

Hikamaru

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miltankRancher said:
i think GF made the theme come across. i mean it was really evident in the game that opposites do really exist. they did a great job on that. *claps hands*

I think not only Zekron and Reshiram manifested the opposite something. Even the version-exclusive pokemon are opposites. Reuniclus and Gothitelle are examples: Simply by the look of Reuniclus, we can see that he is a happy guy, whereas Gothitelle is not. And Reuniclus somwhat means a "union" of something. Gothitelle on the other hand is an allegory to a separation from reality and society.

Braviary and Mandibuzz is also an example. Braviary is a war-eagle. It shows vitality. Life. Mandibuzz on the other hand is the Pokemonification of death. Sorrow. Sickness.

Alder is also an opposite on his own. Between want and need. As from what I understood, Alder wants to travel the whole region again. However, due to his post, he needs to go back to wherever he is (the League) to fulfill his duty.
Click to expand...

Yes, they really show this feature well.

Bianca and Cheren sort of also showcase opposites.

It's even evidenced in their names.

Bianca = Italian for "white"
Cheren = Hungarian for "black"

and of course Hilbert and Hilda have opposites too:

Their Badge Cases are different colors (Hilbert's is blue and Hilda's is pink).

Also, the pencil in the saving animation is different color depending on Hilbert or Hilda as the player.

Hilbert has black on his hat (he was once known as "Black") while Hilda has white on her hat (she was once known as "White").

And before the official English names were revealed, they were referred to as "Blair and Whitlea" and "Kuro and Shiro". Both mean Black and White.

Hilbert and Hilda are also opposite in some way.

It's not just with Pokemon I see opposites, but the main human characters too.
 

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~

Buffalo State College
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Did you pick up on this theme during your playthroughs of the games?
Nope what I usually do is catch a few Pokemon and battle the gym leaders and then after beating the game, I begin to think of the theme of Pokemon Black and White

Do you think they were effective in putting this theme across?
Based on the theme that you listed above, I think they were effective in putting this theme across. I do believe that this is basically opposites

Can you think of any way that they could have improved or expanded upon this?
No


:t354:TG
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
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This is a risk but I think it might pay off for the revival this week. Sooo get discussing/replying with your thoughts about this guys. I expect to see a few post! n_n;
 
Golurks Were Meant to Fly

Golurks Were Meant to Fly

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I did notice this a bit while playing. I noticed the box cover, the first gym, Opelucid...

But also, what about Iris and Drayden? Isn't it ironic how the young vibrant girl is the gym leader in the old version of Opelucid, while the old stern man is the gym leader in new Opelucid?

Also, (this is something I just noticed) but Marvelous bridge and Village bridge are kind of opposites, aren't they? They mirror each other, with one being very old and historic, while the other is new and very technological.

As for ways they could have made this more apparent, it would have been interesting if one half of Unova was very, very technological, while the other was very old. (it kind of is, but not to an extremely noticeable extent)

Overall though, they did a very good job bringing out this theme. Especially with the visual differences between versions. :D
 

Hikamaru

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GolurkIsDaBomb said:
I did notice this a bit while playing. I noticed the box cover, the first gym, Opelucid...

But also, what about Iris and Drayden? Isn't it ironic how the young vibrant girl is the gym leader in the old version of Opelucid, while the old stern man is the gym leader in new Opelucid?

Also, (this is something I just noticed) but Marvelous bridge and Village bridge are kind of opposites, aren't they? They mirror each other, with one being very old and historic, while the other is new and very technological.

As for ways they could have made this more apparent, it would have been interesting if one half of Unova was very, very technological, while the other was very old. (it kind of is, but not to an extremely noticeable extent)

Overall though, they did a very good job bringing out this theme. Especially with the visual differences between versions. :D
Click to expand...

I have to say Golurk, nice thoughts there especially bringing up Iris and Drayden & Marvelous and Village Bridge there.

Some other opposites I noticed was that most of the version-exclusive Unova Pokemon had colors relating to their version. One obvious example is the Gothita line being primarily black and the Solosis line being white (they look green but maybe the body inside that green slime might be white) and also I noticed this with Whimsicott and Lilligant, Whimiscott is exclusive to Black and it has a dark face while Lilligant is exclusive to White and it has a light face.

Also, the not very version-exclusive Sawk and Throh have some opposites, and I noticed that their color matches the eyes of the Legendary they are more commonly found in.

Sawk, more common in Black is blue like Reshiram's eyes while Throh, more common in White is red like Zekrom's eyes.
 

Ω Ruby and α Sapphire

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One think I noticed actually was how Reshiram, the more traditional looking Pokemon is in the more futuristic game, because Black had Black City and the Electro Oplecuid City, while Zekrom, the more futuristic robot kind of Pokemon, is in the game where everything is more natural. Another nice contrast.
 

Hikamaru

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Zupplu said:
One think I noticed actually was how Reshiram, the more traditional looking Pokemon is in the more futuristic game, because Black had Black City and the Electro Oplecuid City, while Zekrom, the more futuristic robot kind of Pokemon, is in the game where everything is more natural. Another nice contrast.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have to say that was a little interesting.

I also noticed the opposites theme going on with the group of Cheren, Bianca and the protagonist. According to TV Tropes, their names have a sort of theme going on, especially if you take the Japanese names into account.

Cheren's name is Hungarian for "black", Bianca's name is Italian for "white" while Hilbert and Hilda's Japanese names (Touya and Touko) mean "transparency", which suits Hilbert/Hilda's role as the middle and leader of the trio.

And also to do with the technology/nature opposites, in Mistralton City, if you go to the bottom of the airport you will see greenhouses if you are playing Black, but in White they are open crops instead.
 

Ω Ruby and α Sapphire

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Another Interesting thing I discovered. This is the description of Opelucid city in Black:
'A convenient city of rapid change, showing no traces of the past.' while Whites is: A city that respects history and values old things. My point here is that Black houses rotation battles, where battles are ever changing, while in White they have triple battles, where everything stays put and you can't hurt certain Pokemon. Found that quite interesting.
 

imevil

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One thing I just remembered when reading this is how in mainly Black and White 2 there where many cities and caves that would change there apperence depending on which game you played. Black would be more industrialized, while White felt more Natural. I also find the Yi-Yang thing very interesting. And I never really realized the Black City White FOrest metaphor. Are there hidden things like these for other Gens?
 
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