• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Forum moderator applications are now open! Click here for details.
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

Atheist Alliance

Oryx

CoquettishCat
13,184
Posts
13
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Jan 30, 2015
And I understand, that none of you particularly understand religion. But you should at least try - I thought the point of atheism was to create a better world than one based on arbritrary rules.

Excuse me? I have been to Catholic schools for 7 years now. I have gone to weekly classes where their entire purpose was to explain religion for over a year in the past. Don't assume the people that disagree with you are ignorant of religion.
 

bobandbill

one more time
16,891
Posts
16
Years
Alright guys, no need to go about calling other people ignorant, or making clearly obvious trolly statements to rile others up. *deletes bunch of posts*
 

droomph

weeb
4,285
Posts
12
Years
Excuse me? I have been to Catholic schools for 7 years now. I have gone to weekly classes where their entire purpose was to explain religion for over a year in the past. Don't assume the people that disagree with you are ignorant of religion.

I didn't mean you were ignorant - read again carefully. I said, don't understand.

If you were religious, you would understand what religion is like. However, you said, if I recall, that you were atheist.

You may have knowledge, and I respect that, but there's nothing like experiencing it.

I don't mean to be rude, but I just feel that you choose not to understand. And I realize. However, don't bash on me. That's all I'm saying.
 

AChipOffTheOldBrock

Too Legit To Quit
148
Posts
11
Years
  • Age 27
  • NC
  • Seen Feb 18, 2021
I didn't mean you were ignorant - read again carefully. I said, don't understand.

If you were religious, you would understand what religion is like.

You may have knowledge, and I respect that, but there's nothing like experiencing it.

I said pretty much the same thing. But not as respectfully as you hence the deleted posts and trolling infraction. Just because you hear lectures or take a test on something doesnt mean you understand it.
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
13,184
Posts
13
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Jan 30, 2015
I didn't mean you were ignorant - read again carefully. I said, don't understand.

If you were religious, you would understand what religion is like. However, you said, if I recall, that you were atheist.

You may have knowledge, and I respect that, but there's nothing like experiencing it.

I don't mean to be rude, but I just feel that you choose not to understand. And I realize. However, don't bash on me. That's all I'm saying.

I was Catholic for a long time before I decided it wasn't for me. So don't try that "there's nothing like experiencing it" as if all atheists haven't been religious in the past. That is rude, no matter how you try to couch it in diplomacy, to imply that people don't disagree with you because they actually disagree, but because they don't "understand" what you're saying.

Saying you choose not to know/understand something is saying that you're ignorant. That's the definition of ignorant, and you're choosing to assume that we're just either not willing or not able to understand because it's more acceptable to you than realizing that we understand and don't agree with you. Why are you making that assumption? The assumption that "we just don't understand" borders on arrogant; it assumes that you must be right no matter what we say.

Notice that in the past in this very club I have defended religion, Catholicism in particular because that's the denomination I have the most experience with. I am farther from ignorant on the subject than most anyone I have ever met, people on PC included.
 

AChipOffTheOldBrock

Too Legit To Quit
148
Posts
11
Years
  • Age 27
  • NC
  • Seen Feb 18, 2021
I was Catholic for a long time before I decided it wasn't for me. So don't try that "there's nothing like experiencing it" as if all atheists haven't been religious in the past. That is rude, no matter how you try to couch it in diplomacy, to imply that people don't disagree with you because they actually disagree, but because they don't "understand" what you're saying.

Saying you choose not to know/understand something is saying that you're ignorant. That's the definition of ignorant, and you're choosing to assume that we're just either not willing or not able to understand because it's more acceptable to you than realizing that we understand and don't agree with you. Why are you making that assumption? The assumption that "we just don't understand" borders on arrogant; it assumes that you must be right no matter what we say.

Notice that in the past in this very club I have defended religion, Catholicism in particular because that's the denomination I have the most experience with. I am farther from ignorant on the subject than most anyone I have ever met, people on PC included.

Wouldnt a man/woman of science say misunderstanding is the base of a disagreement? Cant there only be one right or wrong answer? And just because you used to be Catholic doesnt mean you fully understood the Catholic Religion.

And droomph, dear god, whatever you do dont use the word ignorant. And Toujours quit trying to put that word into his mouth.
 

Alice

(>^.(>0.0)>
3,077
Posts
15
Years
I said pretty much the same thing. But not as respectfully as you hence the deleted posts and trolling infraction. Just because you hear lectures or take a test on something doesnt mean you understand it.
The entire purpose of a test is to prove you understand something.
 

AChipOffTheOldBrock

Too Legit To Quit
148
Posts
11
Years
  • Age 27
  • NC
  • Seen Feb 18, 2021
The entire purpose of a test is to prove you understand something.

But just because you pass a test it doesnt mean you understand it. In math for example, you can learn how to use an equation to solve a problem but you dont necessarily understand what you are doing when you use that equation.
 

Cherrim

PSA: Blossom Shower theme is BACK ♥
33,268
Posts
21
Years
I think you guys are just going to have to agree to disagree on the point of whether an atheist can truly understand religious views/feelings or not because you can't seem to debate this without arguing and arguments haven't gone very well in here in the last 24 hours. Please turn the discussion elsewhere--this forum isn't really for debates. Those posts were deleted for a reason and it looks like we're heading int he same direction pretty quickly, so I think it's time to start a new topic.

Clubs are safe-havens for like-minded people and while it's okay for non-atheists to come and mingle to build an understanding between the two groups, if a full-on debate is inevitable, it belongs in Other Chat & Discussions, not here.
 

droomph

weeb
4,285
Posts
12
Years
(I wasn't part of it)

I never said that you specifically didn't understand it though. I wanna make that clear before we get off the subject.

Anyways.
 

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
8,959
Posts
13
Years
Jeez, what even happened here? I leave the house for six hours and come home to find a nuke has gone off! I went to a friend's house to watch Breaking Bad, but I should have just stayed home. There was more excitement here than even a show about a crystal meth lab could provide!

Reading over the thread (before everything went south) I realise there isn't actually as much I'd like to reply to as I first thought. I would like to say though, that everything Barrels posts is perfectly in line with me. 10/10 would read again. He almost makes me irrelevant, as everything I have to say (other than the things I never would have thought to say, of which there are many) would be a less eloquent exercise in repetition :P.

Barrels said:
Of everything I love – my family, my friends, the decent people all over the world I will never meet. I cannot and will not accept that these people deserve to be burned alive for all eternity for not believing in God. I will not sit quietly in Heaven as they scream below me. This is my moral stand.

I actually teared up. You could lead a revolt on words like that, and I would follow you to the ends of the Earth.
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
13,184
Posts
13
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Jan 30, 2015
(I wasn't part of it)

I never said that you specifically didn't understand it though. I wanna make that clear before we get off the subject.

Anyways.

You specifically said "none of you understand religion". You should be very careful of such strong stances, especially if you intend to back down from them once people call you out on them.

@Andy: Another not-so-feeling-filled point that I was making to my mom recently - a lot of things I love about my mom are actually considered sinful. So say God is more merciful than Christians on Earth apparently are and allow my mom and I into heaven, as basically good people. The mother that I meet there will be a sanitized version of my mom, without a lot of her personality. Although I guess I'll be sanitized into not liking those parts of her in that case too, so I won't be myself anymore either. :/
 

FrostPheonix

Eternity.
449
Posts
13
Years
Whoa. I got some time to come over, and I see an all out war. Well, not really but you get the point.

[From Barrels I think]
Of everything I love – my family, my friends, the decent people all over the world I will never meet. I cannot and will not accept that these people deserve to be burned alive for all eternity for not believing in God. I will not sit quietly in Heaven as they scream below me. This is my moral stand.

Whoa. If I hadn't been a Christian I would be hoping to put that quote on my sig, its so epic. And since I've never thought of it from that perspective I can't really respond...

Anyways. Hopefully we don't start another argument. But here goes. How do you guys (atheists reading) wrap your minds about time? Do you believe in quantum theory or something that says universes are born out of sparks of cosmic energy or something? How do you think time began? For me, I can't say I find any of the existing theories convincing. But we don't have much of evidence to help form any theories based on science either..
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
13,184
Posts
13
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Jan 30, 2015
I'll be the first one to say that I don't understand in-depth scientific theories about how time began. Hell, I don't understand a lot of scientific theories that affect my everyday life. I hope I get to a point in my life where I have the time and energy to devote to trying to understand it, but that point is not right now, haha. x_o
 

Keiran

[b]Rock Solid[/b]
2,455
Posts
12
Years
The beginning of time is an interesting topic albeit unremitting in its inability to bring forth concrete, proven truth.

To imply there was a true beginning, that would require an outside force. Thus, it was not the true beginning. I find it ironic that discussing the beginning and end of the universe is much like the actual thing- an endless loop.

We already know that space and time can dilate, so it's very possible that everything that has ever happened, is happening, and will happen has occurred and is occurring at the same moment and we are just experiencing it at the pace of a human traveling on earth. Time is relative.

Personally, I think time is, as I said, an endless loop without beginning or end. I was not brought into existence on my birthday, and I will not cease to exist when I die. Cremated or buried, either way I will return to the earth after leaving it when the first carbon-based organism spawned. Within the earth, the elements that once served as my body will be used and changed in many different ways until one day our Sun envelopes Earth and I return to the stars to do what I did billions of years ago. As part of the Universe, I am forced to believe that this is how it works as well. If our particular Universe could speak and you asked it, "what happened before the Big Bang?" it may not have an answer much like how we have no memory of before we were born- but we still existed and so did the outside world.

Sorry if I conveyed this poorly (which I often to about my opinions..) or if it seems out of place, I just noticed the current topic posted by FrostPhoenix and felt an urge to reply since it's one of the things I'm currently into researching.


And i dont believe in Outer Space.

I just..what? There are many people who are literally living in outer space.
 
Last edited:

Barrels

The Fresh Prince of Kanto
82
Posts
12
Years
Oh... wow. I feel like there are some things I need to say before I leave the discussion, but it's tough to marshal my thoughts on everything that's been said.

First... I honestly do feel bad if I've upset anyone with my comments. That wasn't my intention, but it looks as if I've managed to break one of the most important rules of the internet during this discussion ('don't be a dick'), and for that I apologise. Perhaps offence is an inevitable consequence of arguing about things like morality – but perhaps it isn't, and I'm sure I could have conducted myself in a more controlled manner. So on that note...

Thank you Shdwj for being so gracious: 'I do thank you for reading our posts, and I thank you for being kind enough to share you views as well.' (I wish I had your ability to remain so calm and level-headed during this type of discussion!) Thank you droomph for answering my questions, and again, I am truly sorry if I contributed to your decision to leave. Any argument that ends with a participant removing themselves from the vicinity isn't won by their opponent, after all. And finally, thank you Andy and FrostPheonix for your very kind words.

I'm off now. Thanks for the debate, guys – you were all awesome.
 

Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
21,082
Posts
17
Years
The post in which I tried to explain my views has been deleted and Im not going to try and do it again. Apparently my opinions are too offensive to argue.

Offensive? What? Saying that "outer space doesn't exist" is like saying "Ecuatorial Guinea doesn't exist" ._. People have been there, you know. There is nothing to argue about. That's not offensive. Just wrong.

And your latest posts have been deleted for being too close to trolling. If that's the way your debates go in general, we'd rather be without them. There have been far much richer and interesting ones in the last few pages.
 

AChipOffTheOldBrock

Too Legit To Quit
148
Posts
11
Years
  • Age 27
  • NC
  • Seen Feb 18, 2021
Offensive? What? Saying that "outer space doesn't exist" is like saying "Ecuatorial Guinea doesn't exist" ._. People have been there, you know. There is nothing to argue about. That's not offensive. Just wrong.

And your latest posts have been deleted for being too close to trolling. If that's the way your debates go in general, we'd rather be without them. There have been far much richer and interesting ones in the last few pages.

Im not saying that my not believing in space is offensive. My other opinions are apparently. And I probably shouldnt do this but, whatever:

Just because the news says people have been to space doesnt mean they really have. I dont accept things just because people on TV say they are "scientifically proven." I would think that more skeptics would share this opinion but nope. Most just blindly accept what they are told as long as it claims to be proven by science.
 

Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
21,082
Posts
17
Years
Im not saying that my not believing in space is offensive. My other opinions are apparently. And I probably shouldnt do this but, whatever:

Just because the news says people have been to space doesnt mean they really have. I dont accept things just because people on TV say they are "scientifically proven." I would think that more skeptics would share this opinion but nope. Most just blindly accept what they are told as long as it claims to be proven by science.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of "science". The idea of science is trying to give an explanation for a certain phenomenon that a) logically describes why it happens, b) predicts when it's going to happen again and c) fits every instance of the phenomenon, so there aren't any exceptions for a rule.

The point of this is that the explanation that fits all these requirements is the best accepted one. But, if for some reason, there is an instance of the phenomenon that doesn't follow the current laws, or the theory fails to predict an instance, or the logical chain the explanation is based upon is proved false, or if a new, more complete theory is found, the previous one will be discarded. As such, if you "blindly accept" what science says, you are doing it wrong, because science itself asks anybody who cares about it to constantly check the theories and try to disprove them. If they are logically disproven, science moves forward. If they aren't, they hold stronger as their certainty has overcame a challenge.

Of course, your regular Joe in the street doesn't have enough knowledge to try to disprove a theory, and that's why people rely on experts to do so. But, if the millions of scientists checking theories don't find anything seriously wrong about them, it's safe to say that they are as correct as they can get. On the other hand, if someone proves some theory wrong, the general consensus will shift. Just a handful of scientists (like the couple of hundreds who support creationism) will refuse to accept it. True science means that you can try to prove everyone wrong, as long as you accept to be proven wrong if your theories are successfully challenged. Of course, if a theory has remained unchallenged for centuries despite constant research, it is safe to accept it by default and use it as a jumpstart, even if it can be eventually be proven wrong.

But all of this has nothing to do with "going into space". That's not only science. That's not the work of "evil TV's". That's dozens of living people going there, and talking to other people, and bringing rocks and pictures and experiments. That's thousands of satellites there, predicting the weather, taking pictures of the Earth (from where could they be taken if there is nowhere outside of the Earth??). That's the GPS positioning system. That's thousands of rockets being sent into space by dozens of countries during several decades. If all of that is part of a conspiracy, boy howdy is that an extraordinary waste of time and resources for no apparent purpose, one nobody has properly uncovered yet 50 years later.

And even if the discussions between Religion (believe even if there is no evidence) and science (challenge everything you can as long as you have evidence) are somewhat relevant, we are getting offtopic here so I'll stop XD
 
Back
Top