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College education for prison inmates?

Sopheria

Sopheria

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In my state, governor Andrew Cuomo is proposing a plan to provide college education for people in prison (here's an article on it). It would partner local colleges with the prisons, and provide college courses within jail for inmates, and said courses would count as certification towards an Associates or Bachelors degree. The plan is intended to reduce recidivism (fancy talk for repeat offenses), which is indeed a problem, since spending time in jail makes it more difficult to get a job, which is a vicious cycle for more crime.

According to the governor, it would cost the state about $5,000 per inmate each year. That's a fairly small fraction of what it costs per year to house each prisoner, which is $60,000.

The objections to this plan are that it costs taxpayers money, who themselves are struggling to put their own children through college. Another objection is that it gives people more of an incentive to commit crimes (i.e. rob a store => college education).

What are your thoughts on this? Good idea? Bad idea? Do you think the potential drawbacks outweigh the benefits? Would you support such a plan being implemented where you live?
 
Hatsune Mika

Hatsune Mika

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I would say a good idea depending on the time so said inmate is imprisoned, but to deal with is children themselves, they have to get in too right? Well couldn't there be a seperate college thing for prisoners that don't require the total dependence of local college and also do fund raisers, like baking, car washes, etc. Or have frequent shows or do a grant at first then raise money for the inmates. Or slowly save up and each year able to do more amd more inmates.
 
Flushed

Flushed

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I'm not actually sure how much of a problem this is, but OP brings up the point of having incentive to commit crimes. Even without the incentive of a college education, I'd imagine the living conditions in jail are better for some, so there's already incentive to commit crime. Adding "free education" would exacerbate that problem, assuming it is a problem to begin with, if not, well then it might just create that problem.
 
Dakotah

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By and large prisons already offer education support within their facilities, giving inmates who have not been able to complete their high school education to do so, at tax-payers' expense. Extending that to include college courses isn't that big of a deal, and the fears cited haven't resulted in an increase in jail population (with convicted felons indicating their crimes were committed so that the could obtain the free education they wanted).

As indicated, being convicted of any crime places a hardship on job applicants because employers generally do not want to take on the risk of hiring someone who has already demonstrated an unwillingness to follow the law, creating a potential hazard in the workplace. So getting a college degree in prison won't make finding a job once they get out any easier. For this reason alone you wouldn't see a sudden increase in the jail population seeking college degrees. Most of the inmates already incarcerated already know that they are unlikely to find employment, even in the retail or food services industries no matter what level of education they receive while in prison.
 

LividZephyr

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This is definitely a good idea if they don't provide luxurious accommodations for them. Yes, they can learn while they're in prison and potentially turn their lives around, but they can't forget the misery they dealt with in prison.

Prisons these days aren't the [bleep]holes they should be. People already want to get arrested because they get TV and computer use and weight lifting and decent beds in prison now. Why can't they sleep on an uncomfortable cot, be forced to only watch the news on TV, get no computers, have limited access to weights, have to eat disgusting food, and be forced to spend their time cramming? A college education is far preferable to some of the things they're given. Don't ADD college education to it - replace something else with it.

I'll never understand why prison inmates eat well but school cafeterias serve plastic-tasting food. Or why several states spend more per inmate than public school student. It's shameful. In my mind, schools should get plenty of money to actually teach kids how to be adults and give them opportunities to engage in hobbies, while prisons should get money for security, utilities, basic equipment, crap food, and possibly educating criminals to help turn their lives around. Prisons need to be correctional institutions. An education would help that far more than some of the things that they do now.
 

Nick

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I think this is a wonderful idea. I know that crimes can be committed by anyone regardless of their living situation, but I've found that most criminals in everyday news are more often than not people who aren't very bright and who have no goals and aspirations past being criminals (or at least, they don't appear to be doing anything to achieve them), and education can do a lot for someone if they're in the proper frame of mind. It changes the way you think, especially if you take the time to appreciate it and learn about something interesting. I don't particularly like school myself, but I could spend an entire day in a class like Anthropology, Philosophy, and Psychology. While they're doing time, then enlighten them. It could change a life, and in turn have a positive affect for many, many lives that that person could have affected in such a negative way had they not had that opportunity.
 
Livewire

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I really don't think that when people commit crimes, they're thinking of all the cool amenities they'll get in prison, lol. It's more primal, survival-of-the-fittest than that.

I like the idea, but the current model of prison system we have doesn't like rehabilitation and empowerment, they're increasingly for-profit and thus need prisoners to fill up the cells with. Once we turn the prison system away from the current model, then we can rehabilitate prisoners, give them an education, and hopefully return them to a decent place in society. It's a great idea, but given the gravity of the current state of the education system in the U.S., we need to make sure our kids get their education in the most affordable way possible first, before we go about trying to save societies lowest common denominator.
 

EpicBeaver100

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Whether it is a good idea or a bad idea depends on who is receiving the education.
This should NOT be included for prisoners in jail for life or over a certain period of time, (lets say, 50-75 years) people who do not WANT it, and people who are straight-up butt-holes with the 'teachers.'
 

Puddle

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That's a terrible idea. As you stated earlier, people's parents have a hard time paying for their own kid's college. And then the student gets out of there with debt. Why should they pay more for criminals?

And honestly, most people in there for long enough to do a college class, probably wouldn't want to do a college class.
 

Kanzler

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Like Finnick Odair, I highly doubt the validity of the opinion that this program would incentivize people to commit crime. The assumption of the ever-rational homo economicus is already shakey when applied to economics alone, and much more in a discussion of social behaviours. I'm not sure if college credits => incentivizing crime can be observed empirically.

I see the logic in such a program. As was pointed out in the OP, introducing post-secondary education would seek to break the vicious cycle. However, I sense that the people in prison weren't very successful in school to begin with, so I'm not sure how successful such a program would be.

Also, those of you claiming that prisons aren't the way they used to be, you're right. They're overcrowded and underserviced. The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Add the trend of prison privatization and you have the private sector absorbing a disproportionately high amount of low-cost prisoners, shifting costly prisoners towards the state and reducing the quality of service. The outsourcing of food and medical service in an attempt to reduce cost will also reduce quality as the businesses try to make profit.

I think American society is very bourgeois - people care too much about celebrities and the wealthy. If the word "prison" means more of computers and comfortable beds than anal rape, then you're missing the big picture.
 
The Undisputed Era

The Undisputed Era

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My way of thinking is that education isn't something that everyone deserves it, but infact it is for those who are willing to learn. To say that because someone has committed a crime no matter how severe is undeserving of education is wrong, if they're are willing to learn they deserve it.

Going on what someone said before about parents paying money to send their children to school you have to realise it's that the parents believe their children have the willingness to learn and that the children understand this. Even when you're young most of us stride and want to learn, Of course as we get older some of us rebel against this willingness and may not meet peoples expectations on how we learn but we still see and learn even when you wouldn't directly see it as that.

Another comment someone made was that crimes are committed out of primal instinct and survival of fittest, but what you forget to realise is that they've still been learning even if the methods are unorthodox. Murderers have learnt that in order to get something they want they have to eliminate a person or people but it's still learning. If a prison wants to change the method in which a person learns to make it beneficial to society then I feel that it's the best thing to do because even the most hardened criminals can learn to be apart of society and those who re offend either haven't been given the education that the criminal is willing to take or they have rejected the willingness to learn in which case that person doesn't deserve it.
 
Phantom1

Phantom1

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I'm not even gonna look at what others have said. NOPE.

Answering the thread title only.

How about a world of hell-to-the-no.

If this is true, I should get arrested.

HEY MOM I'M GONNA GO MURDER A STRANGER BE BACK IN FOUR(TY) YEARS!

Okay, right... In all seriousness I understand the reason it's even a gorram idea. They think that by offering education and a chance at better jobs/gaining job skills, will prevent them from returning to crime or will enable them to have a decent life after prison.

NOT looking at the issue of, 'why the frank does a crack dealer get college and I don't?' it still is flawed. Who says they will even attempt to get a job? Not everyone changes, not everyone wants to change, hell for some jail is a goal, not a punishment. And even if it's offered to those that are 'most likely' not to follow their own example there is still a fact that most employers do not like hiring people with criminal records, especially federal offenses.
 

Corvus of the Black Night

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PhantomX0990 said:
I'm not even gonna look at what others have said. NOPE.

Answering the thread title only.

How about a world of hell-to-the-no.

If this is true, I should get arrested.

HEY MOM I'M GONNA GO MURDER A STRANGER BE BACK IN FOUR(TY) YEARS!

Okay, right... In all seriousness I understand the reason it's even a gorram idea. They think that by offering education and a chance at better jobs/gaining job skills, will prevent them from returning to crime or will enable them to have a decent life after prison.

NOT looking at the issue of, 'why the frank does a crack dealer get college and I don't?' it still is flawed. Who says they will even attempt to get a job? Not everyone changes, not everyone wants to change, hell for some jail is a goal, not a punishment. And even if it's offered to those that are 'most likely' not to follow their own example there is still a fact that most employers do not like hiring people with criminal records, especially federal offenses.
Click to expand...
This sounds like a very naive view of criminals in general.

Those two kinds of criminals do exist but there are also people who, for example, may have been falsely accused (which is why I don't agree with the death penalty), may have done so to evade abuse or financial struggles, and while that makes them no less guilty, it doesn't mean that everyone's story is the same.

In my opinion prisons are set up completely wrong in the United states. America has this insane obsession with retribution to the point of ridiculousness and ruining someone's chances for redemption completely over one sinister act. If I kill someone with first degree murder when I am 20 years old the rest of my life is stuck in prison without parole. Think about that for two seconds. If I'm not allowed out of a prison for the rest of my ♥♥♥♥ing life how do you expect me to be willing to improve my behaviour? Furthermore, there are many crimes such as the fact that in some states if you're caught with marijuana too many times you can get a life sentence. Or crimes such as the guy who ran Megaupload who probably won't be out of prison for the rest of his life either, for operating a site that the USERS uploaded copyright infringing materials. Yes, there are some really ♥♥♥♥ed up people in there, but just because they are convicted of a crime does not mean that they are a ♥♥♥♥ed up person.

Instead of having prisons be morally fixed on Retribution, we don't address what they're also known as - Correctional Facilities. Prisons should NOT be about punishing someone so severely that they can't get back on their feet because they will return to the same crimes over and over again and that's why re incarceration rates are so high in the United States. How the ♥♥♥♥ do you expect someone who has been sheltered away from society for DECADES to be able to play a functioning role? Get a job? Try to turn his life around? Criminals aren't all the same and there are those Charles Manson types who are just ♥♥♥♥ed up. But honestly. How the ♥♥♥♥ do you expect someone to even have a reason to try to redeem themselves if they know there's nowhere to go EXCEPT prison?

It's also important to note that a lot of people are in prison for simply BEING ADDICTED TO A DRUG AND GETTING CAUGHT WITH IT. In fact, I'm willing to bet that some people who go to prison go there initially because of a drug charge, and because they can't find a job afterwards because of how aggressive and destructive prisons are to both a person's hope and their prospects of getting a job, they end up doing more aggressive charges because they HAVE NO HOPE.

On an unrelated note, it is absolutely disgusting how the United States treats drug addicts and instead of realizing that they are suffering from a psychological need for a drug, they treat them like criminals because DRUGZ ARE BAD. Seriously, go ♥♥♥♥ yourselves. We cry and moan about "aw don't hurt their feelings because they're overweight" or some stupid ♥♥♥♥ like that, but if they're a drug addict, who, unlike most obese people, made ONE choice instead of many many many choices and are suffering from an extreme addiction psychologically. Someone shouldn't have their life ruined by ONE MISTAKE. Someone should have help to aid them through their ONE MISTAKE so they can get back on their feet again, not get their lives EVEN MORE RUINED because of it.

Anyways.

I fully agree with college education of prisoners, as long as the prisoners are well behaved and have a history of nonviolence. Why? Because it's a step in the right direction, from retribution to rehabilitation. By educating our prisoners we give them an ability to maybe step forward in life. We give them a reason to try to become a member of our society. Many prisoners to begin with are there because they couldn't find a place because they were low income or something. Of course, extra cautions should be made, but that doesn't mean that people can't turn themselves around. Stop the retribution and bring on the rehabilitation, already. It won't work with everyone. But they should at least have the option.
 
Alexander Nicholi

Alexander Nicholi

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daigonite said:
This sounds like a very naive view of criminals in general.

Those two kinds of criminals do exist but there are also people who, for example, may have been falsely accused (which is why I don't agree with the death penalty), may have done so to evade abuse or financial struggles, and while that makes them no less guilty, it doesn't mean that everyone's story is the same.

In my opinion prisons are set up completely wrong in the United states. America has this insane obsession with retribution to the point of ridiculousness and ruining someone's chances for redemption completely over one sinister act. If I kill someone with first degree murder when I am 20 years old the rest of my life is stuck in prison without parole. Think about that for two seconds. If I'm not allowed out of a prison for the rest of my ♥♥♥♥ing life how do you expect me to be willing to improve my behaviour? Furthermore, there are many crimes such as the fact that in some states if you're caught with marijuana too many times you can get a life sentence. Or crimes such as the guy who ran Megaupload who probably won't be out of prison for the rest of his life either, for operating a site that the USERS uploaded copyright infringing materials. Yes, there are some really ♥♥♥♥ed up people in there, but just because they are convicted of a crime does not mean that they are a ♥♥♥♥ed up person.

Instead of having prisons be morally fixed on Retribution, we don't address what they're also known as - Correctional Facilities. Prisons should NOT be about punishing someone so severely that they can't get back on their feet because they will return to the same crimes over and over again and that's why re incarceration rates are so high in the United States. How the ♥♥♥♥ do you expect someone who has been sheltered away from society for DECADES to be able to play a functioning role? Get a job? Try to turn his life around? Criminals aren't all the same and there are those Charles Manson types who are just ♥♥♥♥ed up. But honestly. How the ♥♥♥♥ do you expect someone to even have a reason to try to redeem themselves if they know there's nowhere to go EXCEPT prison?

It's also important to note that a lot of people are in prison for simply BEING ADDICTED TO A DRUG AND GETTING CAUGHT WITH IT. In fact, I'm willing to bet that some people who go to prison go there initially because of a drug charge, and because they can't find a job afterwards because of how aggressive and destructive prisons are to both a person's hope and their prospects of getting a job, they end up doing more aggressive charges because they HAVE NO HOPE.

On an unrelated note, it is absolutely disgusting how the United States treats drug addicts and instead of realizing that they are suffering from a psychological need for a drug, they treat them like criminals because DRUGZ ARE BAD. Seriously, go ♥♥♥♥ yourselves. We cry and moan about "aw don't hurt their feelings because they're overweight" or some stupid ♥♥♥♥ like that, but if they're a drug addict, who, unlike most obese people, made ONE choice instead of many many many choices and are suffering from an extreme addiction psychologically. Someone shouldn't have their life ruined by ONE MISTAKE. Someone should have help to aid them through their ONE MISTAKE so they can get back on their feet again, not get their lives EVEN MORE RUINED because of it.

Anyways.

I fully agree with college education of prisoners, as long as the prisoners are well behaved and have a history of nonviolence. Why? Because it's a step in the right direction, from retribution to rehabilitation. By educating our prisoners we give them an ability to maybe step forward in life. We give them a reason to try to become a member of our society. Many prisoners to begin with are there because they couldn't find a place because they were low income or something. Of course, extra cautions should be made, but that doesn't mean that people can't turn themselves around. Stop the retribution and bring on the rehabilitation, already. It won't work with everyone. But they should at least have the option.
Click to expand...

How you described the prison system reminded me of a scene from the 2005 Mike Judge film Idiocracy. Here.


I think the prison systems are absolutely ridiculous. They serve federal criminals better food than our children in school that are innocent in every way, and bestow gyms and cable and internet for no money at all in exchange. Unless the prison system can be moved from a mode of retribution to rehabilitation (and not the kind in the video above), I see no benefits coming from this idea of giving free college education to criminals. If it wasn't ass-backwards, I'd be all for the idea. Yeah. :/
 

Corvus of the Black Night

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I agreed with everything until you said that they shouldn't have it. What benefit would it be served to not allow well-functioning individuals who are incarcerated to be able to attend a college education. I don't think it should be free if others are not having it done for free - perhaps have them pay for community-college style education through labour - however, simply refusing the right is not a step towards rehabilitation.

Prison should ultimately be about rehabilitation, and college is a step in the right direction. Your arguments involving "they get better this and that" is not really relevant and highlights a different problem in our society.
 
£

£

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I've thought about this for a while and I've been kinda on the fence about it. I think the idea is woefully expensive given the price of a college education and such; and so I wouldn't just offer it over on a plate. The way things are going, prison will be somewhere desirable for people in dire financial straits!

Why not rehabilitate people with labour of some kind? I don't exactly know what it could be, but why not say "look, you do this work, you'll have a more pleasant time in prison as the perks of the labour (which we're currently just offloading to them anyway)" Perhaps one such perk could be education. But I believe it's important that a mentality of positively contributing and being rewarded for such a positive contribution to society is instilled on people as a means of rehabilitation. That and if such an idea can be carried out in a way where prisons expenses are curbed significantly, it could be very practical indeed.
 

Burakki Tsuki

Now playing Pokemon again! :D
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I think that providing college would help inspire and motivate many lost and confused people who are trapped in a negative way of life. It will help them escape the simple minded beliefs of what life and achievements should be and open their eyes to true success and enjoyment. It may also reduce the change of them landing back in prison. So if an average body in prison costs $80k a year, $5k is a good investment to keep the person from coming back. From a financial and humane perspective it is a good move.
 

CoffeeDrink

GET WHILE THE GETTIN'S GOOD
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daigonite said:
I agreed with everything until you said that they shouldn't have it. What benefit would it be served to not allow well-functioning individuals who are incarcerated to be able to attend a college education. I don't think it should be free if others are not having it done for free - perhaps have them pay for community-college style education through labour - however, simply refusing the right is not a step towards rehabilitation.

Prison should ultimately be about rehabilitation, and college is a step in the right direction. Your arguments involving "they get better this and that" is not really relevant and highlights a different problem in our society.
Click to expand...

I'll tell you why, koff~

Criminals that care nothing for the laws and rights of others do not deserve the right to a free anything. Rights are stripped away from them like they strip away so much else. Do you think it's fair that I have to pay for my education, fight the bank into keeping my house, while struggling to feed myself and pay for everyday living expenses, pay off debt and having to care for someone else through my already measly allowance? That right there is the very definition of wrong. I should not have to pay for someone's education who broke the law. I should not have to pay for their teeth, or their health, their cable, their books. I can assure you that our prisons are nice strolls in the park compared to other prisons around the world. They keep coming back, so? Make it hell. They do not deserve my legally obtained, hard earned cash. Why? Because I'm not payed enough. Fight poverty, fight crime. See? That's what I believe anyway, koffi~
 

Corvus of the Black Night

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CoffeeDrink said:
Criminals that care nothing for the laws and rights of others do not deserve the right to a free anything. Rights are stripped away from them like they strip away so much else. Do you think it's fair that I have to pay for my education, fight the bank into keeping my house, while struggling to feed myself and pay for everyday living expenses, pay off debt and having to care for someone else through my already measly allowance? That right there is the very definition of wrong. I should not have to pay for someone's education who broke the law. I should not have to pay for their teeth, or their health, their cable, their books. I can assure you that our prisons are nice strolls in the park compared to other prisons around the world. They keep coming back, so? Make it hell. They do not deserve my legally obtained, hard earned cash. Why? Because I'm not payed enough. Fight poverty, fight crime. See? That's what I believe anyway, koffi~
Click to expand...
This would be true if it was not shown that alternative strategies of incarceration such as those that are utilized in Norway were actually more effective in modifying the behaviour of inmates as opposed to the typical standard system. Notice how these individuals are doing something productive instead of simply being locked up and having our tax dollars pay for them, and notice how they're able to learn a trade that they can take with them outside of prison. There is a reason why they are not reincarcerated and that is because they have something to do. Of course, not everyone's perfect and you do get the Charles Mansons out there but I doubt most prisoners are like that.

Also, you're forgetting cases that may include people imprisoned for 1) being wrongly accused and tried 2) people imprisoned by questionable laws, such as marijuana use laws and 3) people who commit a crime for a very understandable reason, such as people who steal food because they are starving or people who have murdered someone because they were torturing them. It's true, that in cases 2 and 3 that they care nothing for the laws but sometimes, the law isn't right.

No, I don't think they should be given it for free, I take that back. I think that they should work for it through labour, yes, that they should earn the right to a "community college style" education, and pay the price in their labour as opposed to money. But honestly. How do you expect people to improve if you give them absolutely no reason to improve?
 
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Eevee3

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I think it's fine but when it starts becoming the community's job to pay taxes to support this, then that'll be a problem that I will not be okay with.
 
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