Hail Team Help Needed

Jolteon* · Jan 16, 2012

I'm trying to get into competitive battling. I rng'd a bunch of pokes so i might as well use 'em. This is a fifth gen double battles team. I need suggestions for slot 5 & 6, and also I need item suggestions for the first four in case I do battle subway.

Abomasnow@Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 HP, 172 Defense, 84 Sp Def
Snow Warning
Substitute, Protect, Blizzard, and Leech Seed
Strategy: I send this guy out to set up hail. I use substitute first, and if it looks like it's in real danger I use protect, then substitute, etc. When it's not under attack, I use leech seed on whatever the potential threat is. Then I use blizžard to beast with damage.

Glaceon@Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
252 Special Attack, 4 Special Defense, 252 Speed
Snow Cloak
Blizzard, HP Ground, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam
Strategy: I send this guy out along side Abomasnow. I usually use blizzard, unless it's useless (as in they both resist it) because it hits both opponents hard. If it won't do much I either use Shadow Ball or Hidden Power wherever they work. Ice Beam is on there in case I switch out and switch back in so that it can hit one opponent. Also if hail runs out it is better due to accuracy.

Walrein@Leftovers
Bold Nature
220 HP, 244 Defense, 46 Speed
Ice Body
Substitute, Protect, Roar, Toxic
Strategy: Sub, Protect, fully healed, sub, protect, fully healed, etc. opponents dead. I use toxic in case they are impervious to hail. I also use roar in case they are gonna beast or I want to force entry hazards upon them.

Forretress@Leftovers (again)
Relaxed Nature (0 Speed IV)
252 HP, 176 Defense, 80 Special Defense
Sturdy
Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Gyro Ball
Strategy: Set up Toxic Spikes and spikes. Rapid Spin Hazards. Use Gyro Ball to deal damage.

Please help out.

sanshroo · Jan 16, 2012

Don't run ice beam. If you suspect a sunny day or sandstorm team then switch out Abomasnow and throw him back in after you've dealt with the opponent's weather changer.

Glaceon is kinda sketchy. Not the greatest IME. Cool that you gave it max speed though ;)

Entry hazards might be a little too slow paced for double battles. Stall on double battles is also difficult. Walrien won't really work because the opponent will see it coming and have both their pokes target her.

Always switch out Abomasnow if you encounter a tyranitar lead. Tyranitar will always win unless your opponent is completely inept. Abomasnow will get knocked down without a choice scarf. With 7 weaknesses on a double battle team you're guaranteed to get hit with supper effective moves. If you really want to do a sub seed (over rated) then at least hand him a focus band so you can throw down a blizzard or switch out when things go down hill. I advise running a special attack setup on Abomasnow with HP ground. His physical moves are good, but his blizzard is better. You could opt for a mixed attack setup, but then you are wasting good bulk from a detrimental nature.

Kingdra is good for covering your fire weakness.

Mamoswine is good for covering electric attacks.

Your fortress will get magnezone trapped.

Why is this even a double battle team? I don't really see anything special that works together.

Jolteon* · Jan 16, 2012

sanshroo said:
Don't run ice beam. If you suspect a sunny day or sandstorm team then switch out Abomasnow and throw him back in after you've dealt with the opponent's weather changer.

Glaceon is kinda sketchy. Not the greatest IME. Cool that you gave it max speed though ;)

Entry hazards might be a little too slow paced for double battles. Stall on double battles is also difficult. Walrien won't really work because the opponent will see it coming and have both their pokes target her.

Always switch out Abomasnow if you encounter a tyranitar lead. Tyranitar will always win unless your opponent is completely inept. Abomasnow will get knocked down without a choice scarf. With 7 weaknesses on a double battle team you're guaranteed to get hit with supper effective moves. If you really want to do a sub seed (over rated) then at least hand him a focus band so you can throw down a blizzard or switch out when things go down hill. I advise running a special attack setup on Abomasnow with HP ground. His physical moves are good, but his blizzard is better. You could opt for a mixed attack setup, but then you are wasting good bulk from a detrimental nature.

Kingdra is good for covering your fire weakness.

Mamoswine is good for covering electric attacks.

Your fortress will get magnezone trapped.

Why is this even a double battle team? I don't really see anything special that works together.

Changing to singles.....
Ok, so what if I give abomasnow a focus sash, a quiet nature, and iv 0 (to make sure hail gets summoned). Then give it 252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 SpecialAttack. Blizzard, HP fire, Grass Knot, Ice Shard.

Ill add Kingdra with Choice specs, Sniper, Modest, 252 SP attack, 252 SPeed, 4 hp, hydro pump, draco meteor, dragon pulse, and surf

Mamoswine with focus sahs, adamant, 252 attack, 252 speed, and 4 defense, ice shard, endeacor, earthquake, and stealth rock.

Ill give forretress shed shell so it can easily escape from magnezone.
Thanks :D

Musica · Jan 16, 2012

Did you consider getting Kyurem as sweeper instead of Glaceon?

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
56 HP (To let the substitute survive Seismic Toss/Night Shade) 236 SpA 216 Spe

OR Timid Nature

56HP 252 SpA 200 Spe

~Substitute
~Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor if you want more power
~Blizzard (It's a Hail team soooooooo spam all the blizzards!!)
~Focus Blast for Steel/Fighting/Rock 'mons to counter you

.Gamer · Jan 16, 2012

I'm not a double expert (in fact I don't know anything) but maybe a bulky water type or something like Vaporeon / Milotic etc to absorb the fire attacks that will wipe you out?

sanshroo · Jan 16, 2012

.Gamer said:
I'm not a double expert (in fact I don't know anything) but maybe a bulky water type or something like Vaporeon / Milotic etc to absorb the fire attacks that will wipe you out?

That's what kingdra is for. X4 resistance to fire is as good as it gets, especially with bulk like kingdra has.

Jolteon* said:
Changing to singles.....
Ok, so what if I give abomasnow a focus sash, a quiet nature, and iv 0 (to make sure hail gets summoned). Then give it 252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 SpecialAttack. Blizzard, HP fire, Grass Knot, Ice Shard.

Ill add Kingdra with Choice specs, Sniper, Modest, 252 SP attack, 252 SPeed, 4 hp, hydro pump, draco meteor, dragon pulse, and surf

Mamoswine with focus sahs, adamant, 252 attack, 252 speed, and 4 defense, ice shard, endeacor, earthquake, and stealth rock.

Ill give forretress shed shell so it can easily escape from magnezone.
Thanks :D

Shed shell is good.

Try this for abomasnow:

Abomasnow @ Choice scarf
Timid
252 speed, 252 sp. attack, 6 HP
-Shadow ball
-Focus Blast
-Blizzard
-Energy ball

Obviously you would always opt to use blizzard on this set. Even on neutral hits he'll wreck house. Alternatively:

Abomasnow @ Choice scarf
Jolly
252 speed, 252 attack (31 speed)
-Wood hammer
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Brick break/focus punch

Max speed and a choice scarf allows abomasnow to outspeed and surprise un-scarfed infernape and other pokemons up to base 110 if I recall correctly.

Mamoswine looks okay. Weird that you want stealth rock on him. It'd probably work though.

Kingdra has good bulk and okay stalling potential. Consider using chesto-rest.

PlatinumDude · Jan 16, 2012

sanshroo said:
That's what kingdra is for. X4 resistance to fire is as good as it gets, especially with bulk like kingdra has.

Shed shell is good.

Try this for abomasnow:

Abomasnow @ Choice scarf
Timid
252 speed, 252 sp. attack, 6 HP
-Shadow ball
-Focus Blast
-Blizzard
-Energy ball

Obviously you would always opt to use blizzard on this set. Even on neutral hits he'll wreck house. Alternatively:

Abomasnow @ Choice scarf
Jolly
252 speed, 252 attack (31 speed)
-Wood hammer
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Brick break/focus punch

Max speed and a choice scarf allows abomasnow to outspeed and surprise un-scarfed infernape and other pokemons up to base 110 if I recall correctly.

Mamoswine looks okay. Weird that you want stealth rock on him. It'd probably work though.

Kingdra has good bulk and okay stalling potential. Consider using chesto-rest.

To be honest, Abomasnow is better going mixed if it's using Choice Scarf:
-Blizzard
-Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb
-Hidden Power (Fire)
-Earthquake
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 16 Atk/252 SAtk/240 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning

On the Specs set, Shadow Ball doesn't provide noteworthy coverage, while Focus Blast is prone to missing.

On the Band set, Outrage is redundant with Abomasnow's Ice STAB.

Saturated Hue · Jan 16, 2012

Have you ever considered Specially Defensive Heatran? It has some actual firepower and remedies your team's general weakness to Fire-type moves. You also kinda lack a dedicated special wall. It can set up Stealth Rocks, so I'd probably recommend it over Forretress.

Heatran @Leftovers
Calm
248 HP, 100 SDef, 160 Spd
Lava Plume
Stealth Rock
Protect
Toxic / Will-o-Wisp

Also, if you decide to disregard the above suggestion and keep Forretress, I would trade in Toxic on Walrein for Blizzard, because it's kind of redundant to have both Toxic Spikes and Toxic on the team.

Also, you should consider sticking Hail, as in the move Hail, to something on your team. If Abomasnow is dead, your opponent won't be as cautious as to not let their weather starter die, and you can catch them off guard.

sanshroo · Jan 16, 2012

PlatinumDude said:
To be honest, Abomasnow is better going mixed if it's using Choice Scarf

Yeah, probably actually.

EVs: 16 Atk/252 SAtk/240 Spe

Why the arbitrary 240 speed? Why 16 attack?

Also, if you decide to disregard the above suggestion and keep Forretress, I would trade in Toxic on Walrein for Blizzard, because it's kind of redundant to have both Toxic Spikes and Toxic on the team.

It's not that redundant. Between flying pokemon, rapid spinners, and levitate pokemon I'm sure there'll be a chance when it comes in handy.

Speaking of which... A ghost type might be useful to cover your fighting weakness and as a switch in when obvious rapid spinners get thrown out. Perhaps parahax froslass?

PlatinumDude · Jan 16, 2012

sanshroo said:
Yeah, probably actually.

Why the arbitrary 240 speed? Why 16 attack?

It's not that redundant. Between flying pokemon, rapid spinners, and levitate pokemon I'm sure there'll be a chance when it comes in handy.

Speaking of which... A ghost type might be useful to cover your fighting weakness and as a switch in when obvious rapid spinners get thrown out. Perhaps parahax froslass?

The 240 Speed EVs allow Abomasnow to outspeed Tornadus by 1 point (assuming the former has Choice Scarf)

Still...I don't like using Dragon moves on Ice Pokemon unless that Pokemon's Kyurem.

Jolteon* · Jan 16, 2012

Musica said:
Did you consider getting Kyurem as sweeper instead of Glaceon?

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
56 HP (To let the substitute survive Seismic Toss/Night Shade) 236 SpA 216 Spe

OR Timid Nature

56HP 252 SpA 200 Spe

~Substitute
~Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor if you want more power
~Blizzard (It's a Hail team soooooooo spam all the blizzards!!)
~Focus Blast for Steel/Fighting/Rock 'mons to counter you

I might consider this. I wasn't aware that this pokemon was not Uber. Thanks for the suggestion.

sanshroo said:
Shed shell is good.

Try this for abomasnow:

Abomasnow @ Choice scarf
Timid
252 speed, 252 sp. attack, 6 HP
-Shadow ball
-Focus Blast
-Blizzard
-Energy ball

Obviously you would always opt to use blizzard on this set. Even on neutral hits he'll wreck house. Alternatively:

Abomasnow @ Choice scarf
Jolly
252 speed, 252 attack (31 speed)
-Wood hammer
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Brick break/focus punch

Max speed and a choice scarf allows abomasnow to outspeed and surprise un-scarfed infernape and other pokemons up to base 110 if I recall correctly.

I'm going to try the one i did first.

PlatinumDude said:
To be honest, Abomasnow is better going mixed if it's using Choice Scarf:
-Blizzard
-Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb
-Hidden Power (Fire)
-Earthquake
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 16 Atk/252 SAtk/240 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning

On the Specs set, Shadow Ball doesn't provide noteworthy coverage, while Focus Blast is prone to missing.

On the Band set, Outrage is redundant with Abomasnow's Ice STAB.

See above.

Saturated Hue said:
Have you ever considered Specially Defensive Heatran? It has some actual firepower and remedies your team's general weakness to Fire-type moves. You also kinda lack a dedicated special wall. It can set up Stealth Rocks, so I'd probably recommend it over Forretress.

Heatran @Leftovers
Calm
248 HP, 100 SDef, 160 Spd
Lava Plume
Stealth Rock
Protect
Toxic / Will-o-Wisp

Also, if you decide to disregard the above suggestion and keep Forretress, I would trade in Toxic on Walrein for Blizzard, because it's kind of redundant to have both Toxic Spikes and Toxic on the team.

Also, you should consider sticking Hail, as in the move Hail, to something on your team. If Abomasnow is dead, your opponent won't be as cautious as to not let their weather starter die, and you can catch them off guard.

I might do this, but I don't know how to rng in diamond on a mac. I have PPRNG, but I don't know how it works. THerefore I can't do this with a usable pokemon.

SebbieSawrr · Jan 16, 2012

How about a Hail Froslass?
Hail
Leftovers Snow Cloak Timid
Moveset EVs
~ Substitute
~ Spikes
~ Blizzard
~ Thunder Wave / Taunt

Musica · Jan 16, 2012

You can trade for a Heatran to get one. :D Or do you just want to use your own pokemon for battles? A little "fire"power can help you a lot too since you don't have anything that resists fire. Heatran is your man (monster) to do the job. If you're not up for Heatran, Volcarona can do something good too, but it doesn't resist fire, just neutral damage.

Jolteon* · Jan 19, 2012

Musica said:
You can trade for a Heatran to get one. :D Or do you just want to use your own pokemon for battles? A little "fire"power can help you a lot too since you don't have anything that resists fire. Heatran is your man (monster) to do the job. If you're not up for Heatran, Volcarona can do something good too, but it doesn't resist fire, just neutral damage.

Well, the kingdra double resists fire i think. Also, I do only like to use my own pokemon :D

sent1mental · Jan 25, 2012

i didnt read your team but Forretress has to go
starmie or tentacruel works as a better spinner because look at your team... 4 weak to fire aint gonna work
Lati@s would make a good sub latios specs latias calm mind set
and last pokemon something physical haxorous, dnight, terrikon would work well

Lewny · Feb 6, 2012

Articuno sub-set is awesome in my opinion,

Blizzard
Sub
Roost
Toxic

Good stall in hail and run a flash fire pokemon to take this obvious fire hits.
Aswell as taking out forretress, gains nothing from Hail and gives you more fire weakness.

Articuno sub-set is awesome in my opinion,

Blizzard
Sub
Roost
Toxic

Good stall in hail and run a flash fire pokemon to take this obvious fire hits.
Aswell as taking out forretress, gains nothing from Hail and gives you more fire weakness.

Hail Team Help Needed

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Jolteon*

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