Official Project: Alpha Fan (PAF) Thread

Hacki101 said:

I would like to help, but what i was going to do has already been done (Listing exp for each trainer). A note to say if each trainer is skippable would also be useful and at what consequence (eg some bug trainers in VForest you go through extra grass).

How about calculations on how much exp you need before certain trainers (Nugget bridge rival comes to mind and Brock) where you have a 95% chance of winning, thus maximising speed and lowering the likelyness of blacking out. Of course the luck percentile could be changed according to how much time we need to shave off/ how many people we have trying/ the patience of people playing/ how often we want to risk losing.
Thing is, though, I think we're going to be doing different Pokemon, so you'd have to do this like 3-4 times.
On the map we could mark out the quickest line through kanto, tile by tile if this already hasnt been done, skipping the unneeded trainers as necessary.
Hasn't been done, but that's because in some cases it might be better to fight the trainers that you don't have to fight, as that's our most reliable place for exp. I think we need to get through the game, and then after we figure that out, then go back and do this.
I would be interested in doing the above experiments :)

Also, myrrh, how far have you got through planning and that because I know you have been working on this for a while.
Not far at all. I'm very good at getting distracted. Right now, the only written documentation of what I've done is the map, boss stats list, and the bit about Nidoran that I've posted. There's a bunch more stored in my head though. Just no easy way of writing it all out.
I have spare cartridges as well for whenever we need them but no camera on the GBA (I would be able to play on an emulator to record but I wuld want it on the cartridge too)

EDIT: On the website linked above ^^ the guy who does Crystal doesn't evolve Totodile until Level 20 as it gets Bite in time for whatever he needs it for (I havn't watched it, only read it) Would we consider doing this... examples: Bulba learns Razor Leaf at 20, Ivy 22; Charmeleon learns Flamethrower at 42, Charizard at 46 but no Wing Att.
If we think that using Bulbasaur and waiting til he learns Vine Whip to fight Brock is a good idea, then we very well might wait til 20 to evolve. IIRC, when I usually do like a Monotype with Bulbasaur or something, I seem to usually evolve on one of the first trainers you fight after Brock. I'm sure that the rest of the trainers will probably get him 4 more levels (and we'd have a rare candy to possibly use if we needed it). That might be worth it. As for Charmeleon, I'm not sure that waiting 6 levels for a move as opposed to using Charizard for 10 levels is a good idea.
Is switching to Snorlax/ Legend bird halfway through going to be a quicker option?
I don't know about Snorlax, Articuno takes a while to get to, but could potentially be worth it. Moltres is right there in VR, but has crappy moves, and Zapdos is a bit off, but has good moves. Take yoru pick.
And finally, good luck!! (I will watching/helping with interest)

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Alternative said:

What I think I could do to help is make paths of some of the routes to skip whatever trainers you think need skipping. I could mark all the trainers that stand still, which are impossible to avoid and those which look at you no matter which direction you take.

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If you look at my map, at the beginning, I had color coded the trainers to ones you had to battle and ones you didn't. I stopped doing that like east of Cerulean, because it was just too much work. You could do that, I guess.

I just want to point out that if you are using Nidoran♂ (what are the other optional Pokemon, anyway?), use Red Version. Also, you can catch Spearow on the way to Mt. Moon if you don't see it on Rt. 22 right away.

I'm planning on starting a trial run soon, trying to go off the video/map for the path, and using Blastoise and Nidoking. I'll post updates here I guess. I will be saving, but won't be resetting unless I get wiped out or make a colossal mistake.

So what's the plan with MSN, Myrrh?

I'll do a Charizard solo for my first trial, just to see if he deserves entering the viable list :D Will use butterfree, beat all the bug catchers and not use repels or run before brock :)

What are good slaves? I will give Charizard Strength, but not cut, and it cant learn fly before yellow

Edit: I walked through as much grass as possible in viridian forest, but i only met kakuna and even a pikachu, but no caterpie! but i beat all of the kakunas and optional trainers, thus being able to solo brock with only 2 potions (Even if he wouldn't have used 2 full heals on a 1 hp geodude that got burned :P)
0.21

Hey guys I'd like to contribute to this, with tips and such, and perhaps even a run through on my old blue cart.

First thing I'd like to say is that Dugtrio is a surprisingly useful pokemon. Dig as soon as you get it (even as a Diglett), and the only training it really needs is to go through is Vermillion's Gym. Also, Gen I crit mechanics combined with Slash and blistering speed could prove to be useful, critting everything in sight that doesn't resist Normal, and those can be taken care of with Earthquake and Rock Slide (the latter he gets via TM).

I'm happy to test this out if nobody else has the time. With a moveset of Slash/EQ/Rock Slide/Filler, Dugtrio can potentially take out:

Lt Surge's gym
Erika's gym (speed+slash?)
Koga's gym
Sabrina's gym (high speed, Slash and pokemon's low defences)
Blaine's gym (EQ/Dig)
A few of Giovanni's pokemon
4/5 of Lorelei's pokemon with SE Rock Slide, maybe Slowbro with Slash
Brock's Onixes with EQ/Dig, others with Slash maybe
Agatha with Rock Slide for Golbat, rest with Dig/EQ
Dragonite/Aerodactyl/Gyarados with Rock Slide
Pidgeot/Gyarados/Arcanine/Alakazam with various moves

I know there are other pokemon that could defeat all these people, just wanted to highlight this under-appreciated pokemon's usefullness.

mamoswineftw said:

Hey guys I'd like to contribute to this, with tips and such, and perhaps even a run through on my old blue cart.

First thing I'd like to say is that Dugtrio is a surprisingly useful pokemon. Dig as soon as you get it (even as a Diglett), and the only training it really needs is to go through is Vermillion's Gym. Also, Gen I crit mechanics combined with Slash and blistering speed could prove to be useful, critting everything in sight that doesn't resist Normal, and those can be taken care of with Earthquake and Rock Slide (the latter he gets via TM).

I'm happy to test this out if nobody else has the time. With a moveset of Slash/EQ/Rock Slide/Filler, Dugtrio can potentially take out:
[HIDE]
Lt Surge's gym
Erika's gym (speed+slash?)
Koga's gym
Sabrina's gym (high speed, Slash and pokemon's low defences)
Blaine's gym (EQ/Dig)
A few of Giovanni's pokemon
4/5 of Lorelei's pokemon with SE Rock Slide, maybe Slowbro with Slash
Brock's Onixes with EQ/Dig, others with Slash maybe
Agatha with Rock Slide for Golbat, rest with Dig/EQ
Dragonite/Aerodactyl/Gyarados with Rock Slide
Pidgeot/Gyarados/Arcanine/Alakazam with various moves
[/HIDE]

I know there are other pokemon that could defeat all these people, just wanted to highlight this under-appreciated pokemon's usefullness.

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Good idea :D Using Bulbasaur or Squirtle until you get it, and then solo with critter (:P) or going duo with starter and dugtio :) Starter is up to own preference: Blastoise has better coverage, while Venusaur has better special and razor leaf.

@jd: I was sort of thinking one of two things...

1. everyone leaves their msn on, all in a big chat, and every time someone finds something relative to Alpha Fan that might be important, it gets posted in that chat. That way, everyone can scroll up or down, and its honestly a better way of communication than this.

2. We have scheduled times to meet, when all the time zones will line up well enough. I think this will be a lot harder, because some of us are in America and some of us are not. But hey, could be worth a shot.

When you say America,you mean continent or USA?

myrrhman said:

@jd: I was sort of thinking one of two things...

1. everyone leaves their msn on, all in a big chat, and every time someone finds something relative to Alpha Fan that might be important, it gets posted in that chat. That way, everyone can scroll up or down, and its honestly a better way of communication than this.

2. We have scheduled times to meet, when all the time zones will line up well enough. I think this will be a lot harder, because some of us are in America and some of us are not. But hey, could be worth a shot.

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Lets just do nr 1, because i live in Denmark (GMT +1) with means:
(I can't distinguish between PM and AM, so i used the "24 hours a day" system we use in Europe)
This would mean the meeting times would be morning for the american, and evening for the european :/ (Not that I'm not active in the evening, but this is the reason for it :I)

My time zone is GMT-3.So I gues nr 1 would be better Pm is from 13:00-24:00 got it?

So I'm playing through with Nidoking and Blastoise, and I just finished with Pewter City.

First, here's some DV calcs and stuff for the beginning of the game:


Here are my stat checks:
L6 Squirtle: 22/11/13/11/12 (meh atk, meh speed, good special)
L5 Nidoran♂: 20/12/9/10/9 (good atk, meh special, meh speed)

here are some notes I took while doing this. I'm using an emulator so I can pause it, and am using save states every once in a while in case I really mess up (i.e. someone faints). My name is J, rival K, and I named Squirtle "S" (should have done "B" in hindsight) and Nidoran♂ "N".

• saw 4 rattata on rt 22 before a L4 Nidoran♂, which kind of balances out.
• I fought 2 wild L3 Weedle in VF, no L4/L5 encounters, which kind of sucked.
• leaving V Forest: N and S at L9, 3 Pokeballs, 2 Potions, Antidote.
• didn't use Potion on N, and got a critical hit on Diglett for a 2HKO. Brock went fine.
• visited Mart in Pewter: bought 5 Potions, 3 Paraheals, 1 awakening, and 1 antidote.
• used 2 Potions on N and S (1 each).
• leaving Pewter: N @ L10, S @ L12, 3 Pokeballs, 5 Potions, 2 Antidote, Awakening, 2 ParaHeals; Time: 0:19 (record pace: 0:12)

Some observations/other notes:

• Before you start a new game, set text speed to fast and animations off. leave the style on switch. I set to Set, so I had to switch it back, which takes a few sconds. Also, delete your save file manually (if on comp) if you can so that you can make the settings before starting the game.
• 2 Tackles and a ball is good for Nidoran♂.
• I didn't visit the PC in Viridian, so I have less Potions then what Myrrh has on his sheet.
• I didn't see Spearow on Rt. 22, so I'm gonna catch it before Mt. Moon.

For the next section, I am planning on getting out of Mt Moon at pretty equal levels, but I have no idea as to what level that should be. Obviously I want to fight Misty with Nidoking, and he needs to be at least L23 so he knows Thrash. Any checkpoint suggestions?

jdthebud said:

So I'm playing through with Nidoking and Blastoise, and I just finished with Pewter City.

First, here's some DV calcs and stuff for the beginning of the game:

Spoiler:

Good stats for:

L6 Squirtle:
HP: 22-23 (23 indicates DV of 15) (not really important)
Atk: 11-12 (necessary)
Def: 13-14 (although not really important)
Speed: 11-12 (12 indicates DV of 15)
Special: 12 (necessary)

L4 Nidoran♂ (if catch at L3):

HP: 18
Atk: 10
Def: 9
Speed: 10
Special: 9

L5 Nidoran♂ (if catch at L4):

HP: 20-21
Atk: 11-12
Def: 10
Speed: 11
Special: 10

Here are my stat checks:
L6 Squirtle: 22/11/13/11/12 (meh atk, meh speed, good special)
L5 Nidoran♂: 20/12/9/10/9 (good atk, meh special, meh speed)

here are some notes I took while doing this. I'm using an emulator so I can pause it, and am using save states every once in a while in case I really mess up (i.e. someone faints). My name is J, rival K, and I named Squirtle "S" (should have done "B" in hindsight) and Nidoran♂ "N".

• saw 4 rattata on rt 22 before a L4 Nidoran♂, which kind of balances out.
• I fought 2 wild L3 Weedle in VF, no L4/L5 encounters, which kind of sucked.
• leaving V Forest: N and S at L9, 3 Pokeballs, 2 Potions, Antidote.
• didn't use Potion on N, and got a critical hit on Diglett for a 2HKO. Brock went fine.
• visited Mart in Pewter: bought 5 Potions, 3 Paraheals, 1 awakening, and 1 antidote.
• used 2 Potions on N and S (1 each).
• leaving Pewter: N @ L10, S @ L12, 3 Pokeballs, 5 Potions, 2 Antidote, Awakening, 2 ParaHeals; Time: 0:19

Some observations/other notes:

• Before you start a new game, set text speed to fast and animations off. leave the style on switch. I set to Set, so I had to switch it back, which takes a few sconds. Also, delete your save file manually (if on comp) if you can so that you can make the settings before starting the game.
• 2 Tackles and a ball is good for Nidoran♂.
• I didn't visit the PC in Viridian, so I have less Potions then what Myrrh has on his sheet.
• I didn't see Spearow on Rt. 22, so I'm gonna catch it before Mt. Moon.

For the next section, I am planning on getting out of Mt Moon at pretty equal levels, but I have no idea as to what level that should be. Obviously I want to fight Misty with Nidoking, and he needs to be at least L23 so he knows Thrash. Any checkpoint suggestions?

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Hmm, since being in Cerulean City with Cut is required for advancing (cutting the bush to the east), I was considering going to Vermilion first for my Nidoking solo. I currently do not think defeating Misty is plausible straight from saving Bill. So, I'm going to go through the S.S. Anne first. Actually, I'm going to have to do Mt. Moon first, haven't done that yet. You know what? I'm going to actually play some on my Alpha Fan tonight. Haven't done this in what seems like years. Wish me luck.

By the way, there is no current single segment run for Yellow, so maybe that's something we can shoot for. Nidoking solo is the obvious choice, and you can get Nidoran at L6 on the grass just before Viridian Forest if you're lucky. seems like it's very doable, and if we get it under 3.5 hours, that's a great starting point, as the current segmented record is 2:28.

Obviously the map and stuff is different, and it would take more planning than R/B, as it hasn't been done before.


EDIT: Update on my speed run. Here's the first update. I did use the save states quite a few times here, so this part was far from perfect, especially since I didn't really have a guide to use (I used Myrrh's guide for the first part). I ended up beating Misty with mostly Wartortle using TW + Dig, as Nidoking wasn't powerful enough to survive 2 Water Guns, let alone Bubblebeam, and he was outsped by Starmie.

So, from Pewter City:

Went to Mt. Moon. Dodged Lass, Lass, guy under ledge, Lass.
Caught Spearow by the sign.
Entered Mt. Moon. Picked up: Water Gun TM, Escape Rope, RC, Moon Stone. Fought: 1 Rocket, Super Nerd.
Exiting Mt. Moon: N L16 (Nidorino), S L14 (fainted). Taught Water Gun to N.

Cerulean City:
Picked up hidden RC, evolved N with Moon Stone. Visited PC.
Beat Rival: N beat Pidgetto, S beat Abra and Rattata, N beat Bulbasaur.
Beat Nugget Bridge, S evolved.
Saved Bill. N L20, S L19. Visited PC.
Beat Rocket soley with N, used Dig TM on S.
Challenged Misty. N L21, S L19.
S vs Staryu: 2x TW, Dig OHKO. S vs Starmie. 2x TW, 2x Dig, S KOed by crit Tackle. N finished with Horn Att.
Taught Bubblebeam to S.

Leaving Cerulean:
Team: N L22, S L19, Spearow L7.
Bag: 2 Pokeball, 2 Antidote, TM34, 2 ParaHeal, 2 RC, Escape Rope, Helix Fossil, Nugget, S.S. Ticket.
Time: 0:59 (record pace: 0:50)

Well, since I don't have any Gen I games, I guess I could help with research via emulator. Even more so since my Internet Speed is pretty slow, so recording my run won't be viable since it takes 4 hours to upload an 11 min video (so if the run was 1 hour it would take 25~ hours)

jdthebud said:

By the way, there is no current single segment run for Yellow, so maybe that's something we can shoot for. Nidoking solo is the obvious choice, and you can get Nidoran at L6 on the grass just before Viridian Forest if you're lucky. seems like it's very doable, and if we get it under 3.5 hours, that's a great starting point, as the current segmented record is 2:28.

Obviously the map and stuff is different, and it would take more planning than R/B, as it hasn't been done before.

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Plus, Nidos can learn Double Kick early.

I'd like to see someone work on Kadabra now. I think Kadabra can probably OHKO everything in the game that isn't Psychic type, (as nothing else resists him) until either Snorlax or the Chansey at the end. So, you might want to get Zapdos early maybe? Unfortunately, you'd have to do all but 2 Rival Battles before you could get him (unless you get insanely lucky with an ultra ball). On the upside, you can skip Sabrina's annoying Abra, Kadabra, and Alakazam until after you get Zapdos. The good news, though, is that your Rival only will have a Kadabra for one of those battles (he gets it late in Yellow). In Blue, you have to fight more Psychic types, but they're lower levelled. Hmmmm.

chaos11011 said:

Well, since I don't have any Gen I games, I guess I could help with research via emulator. Even more so since my Internet Speed is pretty slow, so recording my run won't be viable since it takes 4 hours to upload an 11 min video (so if the run was 1 hour it would take 25~ hours)

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I don't have any gen 1 games on me right now, and I'm using emulators right now. Also, you can just post stuff like jd and myself.

So wait, would Dugtrio be viable at all for a speed run? If you do manage to catch one early in Diglett's cave, like I posted earlier It dominates with Dig/Slash/EQ plus whatever else. Crit OHKOs are still OHKOs

mamoswineftw said:

So wait, would Dugtrio be viable at all for a speed run? If you do manage to catch one early in Diglett's cave, like I posted earlier It dominates with Dig/Slash/EQ plus whatever else. Crit OHKOs are still OHKOs

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That is true. I'll add him to the list. If you solo the first part w/ Squirtle, you can probably beat Lt. Surge easily w/ Dig. That might help get you up to 26. I'm just worried about the tankier Pokemon, like Blue's Venusaur/Gyarados, and even the Tangela that Erika has. You don't get slash til lv. 35...

I think it's pretty obvious but it wasn't said.Skip Seafoam Island by surfing from pallet

Yup, and skip the eastern Snorlax too. Go down Cycling Road instead.

Alternative said:

About this Zapdos thing, sure it may be viable to get one but it also means you could be wasting a lot of time trying to catch it. We would need someone to test out a Zapdos theory, and have a backup plan if need be. :)

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I'm thinking that regardless, the first half at least of the game will be the same. In Kadabra's case, I think you need to rush get the Master Ball, for the others, you can probably wait til near the end.