Anime/Manga NP: The Theory of Slice of Life

The movies are technically fillers too, right? Memories of nobody is just below SS and current arc for me. I like it more than all the other arcs in the series lol.

I have such an unnatural attachment to Memories of Nobody. Rest of the Bleach films ranged from average to horrid but the first one man, I've seen it so many times.

Naruto's redeeming qualities for me have always been in the supporting characters and the villains. Kishi is good at quantity but not so much quality. The main characters of Naruto are ****ing terrible lol. The story gets so convoluted at times I get the sense that Kishi doesn't plan more than 3 weeks ahead when writing his chapters. After the Pain arc Kishi completely lost his ****. It's actually quite sad to see what Naruto has become. But even in it's prime Naruto never got my respect as a proper shonen.

Naruto is possibly the worst fictional character ever. He's meant to be the hero but he chases after people who abuse him and kill people lol. He acts like if he can convince mass murderers to stop doing evil things they should automatically be forgiven for what they've done. Like he's Jesus and can absolve them of their sins so long as they listen to his boring, corny ass, John Cena speeches. Offering peace to the like of Pein who wiped out villages and killed babies, and to Sasuke back when he was going through that homicidal psychopath phase that no one seems to hold him accountable for. Remember when Naruto let that woman from the cloud village literally beat him senseless and near the point of death just so he could keep the peace in order to save Sasuke? The person who had tried to kill him, his friends and had intentions of destroying the Hidden Leaf? Yeah that guy. All over a child hood friend who didn't reciprocate ANY of Naruto's feelings. Remember when Naruto was told that the Kage were going to kill Sasuke after he killed dozens of Samurai and infiltrated the summit in order to assassinate them, and then Naruto passed out? Haha what a loser! These are just a few examples of why Naruto is an offensively bad written character with messed up priorities.

Sasuke is no prize either. What an angsty little brat he is. Remember when he dismissed Naruto's hardships, saying that he grew up alone without a family as if he had it easy, where as Sasuke lost his family after forming an emotional connection to them so Naruto couldn't relate to his pain? WHO WOULD SAY SOMETHING THAT MESSED UP?! Okay maybe cut Sasuke a little slack because he was just a kid at the time, but then why did he mirror the exact same sentiments to Naruto years later as a 15/16 year old teenager during their second fight? Because Kishi himself is a man-child who doesn't know how to develop his characters properly, that's why! There I said it. Deal with it Naruto fans. Kishi stinks as a writer.

It's not just the main characters who suck either. Sakura, Itachi, Obito and Madara have all stunk up the manga too, but I think I've ranted enough about Naruto for now. You asked for my opinion, you got it. I hope you dont take any of this to heart. My anger is directed towards this crappy shonen, not you personally.

Not gonna defend against a lot of the stuff you said because I partially agree with them. But Bleach stinks even worse, then. Ichigo is as generic a shonen hero as it gets. I never cared for any character in Bleach. Most side characters are shown for some time and thrown off instead of giving them development. I think most of your problems with naruto stem from part 2. And I myself am not a huge fan of it. But part one, for the most part, was good. Bleach had, what, 5-6 arcs? SS, Arrancar Arc, Karakura town arc, Fullbring and now the Thoudand Year Blood arc, right? 3/5 are bad-average at best. Majority of the series, pretty much. Naruto's saving grace is the first part, at least. Of course, disregarding the filler. And not going to lie, I actually still liked Naruto till Pain Arc. I started disliking it after that. Like I said earlier, war arc was a mess. With a few good moments in between. Either way, the war arc isn't what I'd call 'series' conclusion material. I had high hopes for it. I hope at least Bleach doesn't disappoint.

All my opinion, of course. ^_^

Yeah most of my problems with Naruto are post time-skip. I enjoyed part 1 just like you haha.

Never once has the story gotten convoluted, it has always been straightforward and linear. He doesn't plan more than thee weeks ahead? Are you being serious here? I honestly can't see how anybody would think that.

So you think Naruto would be a better character if he simply offed all the bad guys and gave up on his friends. Okay. I think you might have missed the point of the entire series. It is about the ''gutsy ninja'' doing his best to eradicate hatred from the world. Hatred is given form by the bad guys (However obnoxious they might be the Uchiha, Sasuke especially are the perfect example) and Naruto sheds his light on them. So yeah, the bad guys were all turned into bad guys because of the world they live in, Naruto is rejecting the status quo and I like him.

Sasuke comes from a clan with a genetic default that causes them to turn into power hungry madmen at the drop of a hat. He certainly has an excuse. As for people other than Naruto forgiving him when he turns up later....well, the enemy of the enemy is a friend. It isn't like they've let him back into Konoha with a clean slate or anything. I'd also like to add he has moved passed wanting to kill everyone now, if that means anything to you.

Other characters, dunno why anyone would hate Itachi. He'd be in my top 5 characters in the series for sure. Obito was just another world turned me cold guy and Madara we still don't know his motivation yet so I won't judge. Sakura is pretty awful I will give you that.

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''Ichigo is as generic a shonen hero as it gets''

At least 'five ambulances' Ichigo from the beginning was good. Didn't like him much after the GOTTA CONTROL THE HOLLOW angst set in. He's gotten over that recently so all is well there.

Recently some characters in Bleach have been getting some development. The whole Unohana and Kenpachi thing. Captain doggy. Stuff regarding the SS and how it was formed and so on. Bleach has mostly been about cool boys doing cool things though, can't complain about that in a silly shounen.

-Lapras- said:

Never once has the story gotten convoluted, it has always been straightforward and linear. He doesn't plan more than thee weeks ahead? Are you being serious here? I honestly can't see how anybody would think that.

So you think Naruto would be a better character if he simply offed all the bad guys and gave up on his friends. Okay. I think you might have missed the point of the entire series. It is about the ''gutsy ninja'' doing his best to eradicate hatred from the world. Hatred is given form by the bad guys (However obnoxious they might be the Uchiha, Sasuke especially are the perfect example) and Naruto sheds his light on them. So yeah, the bad guys were all turned into bad guys because of the world they live in, Naruto is rejecting the status quo and I like him.

Sasuke comes from a clan with a genetic default that causes them to turn into power hungry madmen at the drop of a hat. He certainly has an excuse. As for people other than Naruto forgiving him when he turns up later....well, the enemy of the enemy is a friend. It isn't like they've let him back into Konoha with a clean slate or anything. I'd also like to add he has moved passed wanting to kill everyone now, if that means anything to you.

Other characters, dunno why anyone would hate Itachi. He'd be in my top 5 characters in the series for sure. Obito was just another world turned me cold guy and Madara we still don't know his motivation yet so I won't judge. Sakura is pretty awful I will give you that.

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Never once has the story gotten convoluted? Come on man that's fanboy talk. Pretty much all long running series get messy at times. The majority of the War arc has been a convoluted cluster**** lol.

I never said that Naruto would be better off killing bad guys left and right. But you can't always preach your way out of conflict and Naruto shouldn't even be trying to when they've killed and are still trying to kill innocent people including his friends and family. And for the record with Sasuke, he wasn't much of a friend to him to begin with to be honest. Up until very recently it was a completely one sided fixation on Naruto's part. They certainly were not close enough for Naruto to risk his own life just to bring Sasuke back to a village he clearly wanted no part of. The moment Sasuke tried to kill him and his friends he should have given up, instead he became even more crazy and obsessed with him. Yeah that's GREAT writing right there. NOT! It's beyond naive and delusional actually. I feel bad for any kids who read/watch Naruto because it teaches awful life lessons. It'd be like if someone wrote a romantic manga series about a guy who stays with his girlfriend who constantly cheats on him and abuses him, then divorces him and takes all his money but he still says he loves her for some reason.

And if the point of Naruto is to eradicate hate from the world as you say, even if it comes at the expense and safety of him, his friends and countless of innocent people; then that means the point of Naruto is irrational and stupid! It's impossible to stop hatred and end all conflict, which is why Kishi's message is absolutely pointless and juvenile.

Pointing out Kishi's last minute, out of nowhere asspull regarding the Uchiha being naturally crazy still doesn't justify Sasuke being a poorly written character, nor does it excuse Naruto being an awfully written Shonen in general. In fact it actually strengthens my argument because you're showing that Kishi has to rely on these types of last minute retcons just to keep his story going.

As for what you said about Bleach I didn't read it because I don't want to be spoiled on anything. Keep in mind I'm only up to the Arrancar arc so forgive me for skipping over that part of your post. :)

I'm just not seeing the convoluted mess you clearly are. Also I wouldn't consider myself a fanboy, I just like fun.

It wasn't a one sided thing though. Whilst they weren't conventional bros/rivals they've always had an unspoken bond back from when they were being orphans and stuff. Then the relationship started to build during the time they were teamed up, especially the Zabuza arc, Sasuke's Sharingan [re]awakening when he thought Naruto died made it pretty obvious. Then of course there was his whole inferiority complex. I do think their relationship should have been developed more but it is Weekly Shounen Jump, I'm not expecting masses of depth.

You do have to suspend your disbelief a fair bit but tbh this is a world where 14 year olds fight against mass murderers and making your student pay for training with his body is perfectly fine. I think Kishimoto just doesn't like women. >mfw karin still wants the d

I thought the Uchiha thing was an asspull at first but then I thought about it. However silly it sounded it literally explains everything. I mean come on, one of the first things we learn about the Sharingan is that it'll mutate into a stronger version if kill your best friend. They're powerhungry and mad enough to rip out the eyes of their own clan and were planning to take over the village. Itachi is the only Uchiha guy I've liked but for the dark vs light theme of the manga they work.

Because I mentioned Bleach and someone said that Naruto doesn't abuse random power ups as much as Bleach does then it got out hand from there. Mostly my fault, I have to be less aggressive with my opinions. Sorry guys ) :

I've never seen any Vampire anime before.

Okay one thing that's pissing me of watching Bleach these last couple of episodes is that they keep showing the key moments of the episode in the very beginning before the opening song plays. But it's all out of context and just ruins any potential surprise or shock for that episode when those moments play out. What idiot thought that would be a good idea?

Don't think anyone said Naruto doesn't abuse random powerups actually, Naruto's always made logical sense but the Uchiha seem to power up on Kishi's whims. Pretty sure the only powerlevel thing I said was that those in Bleach seemed rather strange until the recent explanation of Ichigo's past in the manga.

No idea what you are talking about there I'm afraid. Never had that problem.

-Lapras- said:

Don't think anyone said Naruto doesn't abuse random powerups actually, Naruto's always made logical sense but the Uchiha seem to power up on Kishi's whims. Pretty sure the only powerlevel thing I said was that those in Bleach seemed rather strange until the recent explanation of Ichigo's past in the manga.

No idea what you are talking about there I'm afraid. Never had that problem.

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Pretty sure if you look on page 1 you will find that Magic Fox said that Naruto doesn't abuse power ups as much as Bleach does. Then I pointed out that pretty much all shonen abuse the power up trope including Naruto. Naruto isn't perfect you know, in fact I think it's pretty damn horrible and possibly the most overrated manga/anime ever. But we're clearly not going to convince each other otherwise.

Didn't notice that post.

Magic Fox said:

and the only way people get stronger is by somehow magically powering themselves up to a previous unheard-of level.

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This is pretty much a battle shounen staple. All the training in the world is nothign compared to getting shot through the chest in battle to power you up.

Magic Fox said:

although I think the later performs it in a slightly more realistic way. ~reasons~ and shizz.

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Up until recently Ichigo's powers haven't made total sense and Naruto's have right from the beginning. They're so similar though it isn't even worth arguing about.

Naruto's progression is more natural though as Kubo basically introduces a whole new breed of characters evert time Ichigo needs to train a certain part of his own power. That rinse and repeat aspect of Bleach is one of the reasons I prefer Naruto actually.

Thank you Lapras for summarising my point, I didn't realise it caused such a stir :P I did say slightly less/more gradual, I wasn't saying Naruto never has power ups at all.

For instance:

Naruto had a three year timeskip to get up to scratch. Even after that he had lots of intensive training by different people.

Bleach (possible spoilers):

Magic Fox said:

For instance:

Naruto had a three year timeskip to get up to scratch. Even after that he had lots of intensive training by different people.

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Though said training spots didn't require Naruto to come to near death to learn techniques, but to get them right in the heat of battle (Rasen-Shuriken) or hear of people having died on the warfront (Nine-Tails Chakra Form) and yadda yadda.

I was really enjoying the Arrancar/Aizen arc up until the final battle. And really? Yammy was apparently killed off screen? Lame! But yeah Ichigo's power up before his final battle with Aizen did seem a bit tacked on and extreme. Aizen losing his composure and getting outclassed the whole fight made me lose interest in him as a villain and took away a lot of the suspense from the fight itself. Seriously I knew Ichigo would improve but he literally became tiers stronger than Aizen after a couple of episodes.

This was the first power up that really bothered me. Even if that attack did come at the expense of his Soul Reaper powers, it was a very anti-climactic way to defeat Aizen.

Lol you apologised for taking the thread into the HST's direction and now you're back to it :p

I've been recommended Oyasumi Punpun. Thinking of reading it. And watching Fushigi Yuugi these days. A good shoujo. If you ignore the excessive melodrama and the annoying MC.

What's HST? I apologized for being so aggressive with my opinions. Not for simply talking about Bleach and Naruto.